Old 02-05-2016, 09:51 AM   #81
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To add to the discussion, new product from Bias. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbZZwtmaolo
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Old 02-05-2016, 12:00 PM   #82
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keyman_sam: "Lookee here I just got my first axe. It's a glorious fender strat."

Sorry, Sam. That's a SQUIER (aka, super cheap chinese junkwood knockoff, strat wannabee).

Oh, and next time please make the F'in photo a little bigger, aye? Lifsize doesn't do that student guitar justice.
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Old 02-05-2016, 12:11 PM   #83
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Whatever, I play 3 and 4 hundred dollar Agile guitars that kick uber ass and are probably made in china or something
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Old 02-05-2016, 12:16 PM   #84
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krevy: "Hey, my playing most certainly isnt worthy of a great amp, I play some rhythm, but live play Bass, and I usually use my Ampeg rig, not the kemper.

The Kemper is usually kept safe and sound at the studio where clients (who can play guitar much better than myself) certainly make that thing sing. We also record through classic vox/marshal/fender amps, but the kemper gets 95% of the way there in so much less time.

The same can be said for any equipment.. do we really need expensive pre-amps, expensive monitors, ...?"


Depends, you know. For live electric bass guitar, there are few amps that sound as good as the Ampeg SVT thru the large 8X10 Ampeg cab. This rig costs REAL money.

Monitor speakers? If you want to make professional tunes with your PC you will need some decent monitors. Gonna cost at least $500 minimum for the cheapest pair.

Thing with an amp like a Kemper IS just like what you say, you can't really take it anywhere and you always gotta be ready to pee yourself if it gets damaged or stolen, etc., etc. (And no music store tech can fix one, either.) The same reason I don't take old Martin acoustics to practically any gigs.
Why own something you got to worry about constantly?

I tell ya, though, if I were in the market right now to drop $2k for a good amp head, I'd get another REAL amp head, like a TwoRock or a Dr. Z. You know, a real guitar amp, not some faddish, over-fiddly techno-toy.

There are only about 4 -- yeah, 4 -- studio session players in the whole country that might need to have the sound of 20, 30, 100 different guitar amps. The whole concept is "cute" at best, but I'd rather call it a science project and basically just dumb. This comes from no "amp envy" or the like, either. I've played for decades and have more guitars and gear than most of ya put together. I'm just saying: FIND YOUR SOUND. Buy 2-3 real amps and be done with it. Who wants a goofy looking head with a hundred stupid knobs. Overpriced German junk, as usual.
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Old 02-05-2016, 12:21 PM   #85
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I see more and more bands performing live with a Kemper, so yeah...

It's not junk.
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Old 02-05-2016, 12:28 PM   #86
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I see more and more bands performing live with a Kemper, so yeah...

It's not junk.
I usually agree with EVERYTHING you have to say ED, but I also see more and more people releasing commercial "albums" that were mastered with "mastering suites" and even online solutions (like LANDR). Just because people use something doesn't automatically mean that they are as good as "real" stuff. I think that while much of the new tech is indeed very awesome, there is (in my opinion) also a "dumbing down" of people's ears going on. People are accepting different things as "good enough" more and more. Heck, many people are ok with listening to their music on earbuds and little smart-phone speakers. The Kempers do indeed sound awesome, as do a few software amp-sims. But I do not believe (again, my opinion) that they sound "real", not enough for me.
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Old 02-05-2016, 12:31 PM   #87
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I see more and more bands performing live with a Kemper, so yeah...

It's not junk.
I have yet to see one live, but undoubtedly it must happen.

And it better not be junk for $2k (not counting footpedal!).

I'm just saying, I'm not enough of an idiot to think I need more than 3 or 4 TOTAL guitar sounds. Most guitarists can't play worth a crap. Forget your stupid tone quest nonsense and learn how to fret your silly notes properly. Biggest issue among guitarists today not their amp; it's the fact that they can't stay in tune and just can't play. And like the other thing I said --- you want to charge me 2 grand?!?! Better sell me a real all-tube handwired head. No circuit solder, breathe and break ...

P.S. Can't wait to find out repair costs on these. Buy a tube amp -- any fool can fix one!
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Old 02-05-2016, 12:50 PM   #88
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I think it's quite great that you can have a lot of different amps modelled to a very high precision in a box like Kemper. For bands covering a wide setlist of genres it is definitely a godsend (that was the example I mentioned above) - one real tube amp is certainly fine enough, but when you stretch different periods in time in your setlist, if you can get very close to those tones as recorded (which Kemper allows you to have), you automatically provide better satisfaction to the crowd. One tube amp might be perfect for 80s rock, but utterly fail when you want to jump back to 50s, or if you need to have a more modern sound. While there are versatile amps out there, and you can certainly complicate your life even more with a huge pedalboard, with Kemper you get 99% of the way there, all in one box, all in one press on the "next preset" switch. Very, very, very convenient.

This is just one scenario where I can see boxes like Kemper succeeding perfectly. Another scenario is when the band wants to facsimile the guitar sound as on the record - without live stage related issues, micing and whatnot. There are very good use cases for a Kemper.
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Old 02-05-2016, 12:52 PM   #89
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There are very good use cases for a Kemper.
I concede.
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Old 02-05-2016, 01:08 PM   #90
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I think it's quite great that you can have a lot of different amps modelled to a very high precision in a box like Kemper. For bands covering a wide setlist of genres it is definitely a godsend (that was the example I mentioned above) - one real tube amp is certainly fine enough, but when you stretch different periods in time in your setlist, if you can get very close to those tones as recorded (which Kemper allows you to have), you automatically provide better satisfaction to the crowd. One tube amp might be perfect for 80s rock, but utterly fail when you want to jump back to 50s, or if you need to have a more modern sound. While there are versatile amps out there, and you can certainly complicate your life even more with a huge pedalboard, with Kemper you get 99% of the way there, all in one box, all in one press on the "next preset" switch. Very, very, very convenient.

This is just one scenario where I can see boxes like Kemper succeeding perfectly. Another scenario is when the band wants to facsimile the guitar sound as on the record - without live stage related issues, micing and whatnot. There are very good use cases for a Kemper.
I will certainly agree with your starting remarks here. To me, at least on paper, it is amazing the Kemper models as well as it does. In other words, being no electrical engineer, of course, but from all I know of the works, the modeling should not come out as fantastic as it does. This is the one intriguing thing for me about Kemper. Good for a serious smile.

And certainly, ewven as only a science project, it needs no justification to exist. BUT ... after decades of owning and using all manner of pricy guitar-related items, I tend to look at real-world use and practicality, and this is where having a Kemper can be questionable. More and more these days, I find too many options in all we musician-producer-players have available. And what I also see is a complete inverse relationship between the too many options and the quality of musical output. That is to say, we may have all these wonderful options, but the more we have the less quality (in this case) guitar sounds and playing I'm hearing. Something has gone wrong.
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Old 02-05-2016, 02:33 PM   #91
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I am playing completely virtual stuff with masterkeyboards and TEC BBC.

The "embedded" PC hardware was some € 1K plus a decent USB D/A.

The software is based on Reaper. The complete cost of course depends on the instrument selection.

Compared to Kemper, I suppose with NT GuitarRig you'll stay below 2K and are a lot more flexible (e.g. you can play in parallel with your keyboarder on the same equipment ).

But believe me, designing and building the system was not for the faint of heart

Another option could be Muse Receptor.

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Old 02-05-2016, 02:44 PM   #92
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Whatever, I play 3 and 4 hundred dollar Agile guitars that kick uber ass and are probably made in china or something
Me too (Agiles anyway, mine were a little bit more)

Manufactured in South Korea


I think it is at this factory

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZhAzVo6mX8

at :53 you can see Agile headstock
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Old 02-05-2016, 03:32 PM   #93
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Rookie mistake. As every rock god knows, that's where the USB charger goes.
Don't blame me - someone tell me why the heck its called an "electric" guitar if it don't need no stinkin' electricity.
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Old 02-05-2016, 03:34 PM   #94
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keyman_sam: "Lookee here I just got my first axe. It's a glorious fender strat."

Sorry, Sam. That's a SQUIER (aka, super cheap chinese junkwood knockoff, strat wannabee).

Oh, and next time please make the F'in photo a little bigger, aye? Lifsize doesn't do that student guitar justice.
Sorreeey - thats a straight pic link from imgur. I could tell it was cheap - its making different pitches on the same string depending on where I pluck the string. My acoustic guitar doesn't do that.
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Old 02-05-2016, 04:29 PM   #95
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1. Hands up, anyone who can hear the difference between a high-end modeller and a real amp/cab in a live setting.

If any of you guys put your hand up, I'd like you to know that you're a liar. These days it can be tough to tell them apart just listening to a solo'ed guitar on studio monitors, let alone through whatever gigantic PA your venue has.

2. As ED said, more and more bands are going with modellers for their touring needs. Among others, Testament, Exodus, Blind Guardian, Muse, Lonestar, Fear Factory I think, plus the session guys for Madonna, Adele, Rihanna... I forget who else, but there's usually a new "Kemper spotting" picture on their Facebook every couple of days. And that's just Kemper - half the kids these days are running around with AxeFX rigs.

As long as you've got a sturdy shockmount case, they aren't subjected to any more stress than the rest of your equipment, and are pretty reliable in general. On top of that, given the choice between a 100w head, a 4x12, and a huge pedalboard, or a Kemper in a little rack with a remote switch... it's a no-brainer for anyone who can't afford a road crew.
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Old 02-05-2016, 05:14 PM   #96
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1. Hands up, anyone who can hear the difference between a high-end modeller and a real amp/cab in a live setting.

If any of you guys put your hand up, I'd like you to know that you're a liar. These days it can be tough to tell them apart just listening to a solo'ed guitar on studio monitors, let alone through whatever gigantic PA your venue has.

2. As ED said, more and more bands are going with modellers for their touring needs. Among others, Testament, Exodus, Blind Guardian, Muse, Lonestar, Fear Factory I think, plus the session guys for Madonna, Adele, Rihanna... I forget who else, but there's usually a new "Kemper spotting" picture on their Facebook every couple of days. And that's just Kemper - half the kids these days are running around with AxeFX rigs.

As long as you've got a sturdy shockmount case, they aren't subjected to any more stress than the rest of your equipment, and are pretty reliable in general. On top of that, given the choice between a 100w head, a 4x12, and a huge pedalboard, or a Kemper in a little rack with a remote switch... it's a no-brainer for anyone who can't afford a road crew.
Have you ever used a modeler/sim in a band setting? I have. It sucked in all cases. I have tried both a modeling amp, and software amp simulators through a power amp/cab, and through a p.a.

As far as using them live, even if sims did sound up to the part (they don't), the chances of some venue having a nice enough sound system that would get that sound across to work well in a band are pretty damn slim.
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Old 02-05-2016, 05:43 PM   #97
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Have you ever used a modeler/sim in a band setting? I have. It sucked in all cases.
I have and it does suck balls. If someone else likes it, good on them. I also don't care what the end user can tell or not tell, I'm the one playing it, not them. Sometimes in this world of selling our souls to what some person we'll never me thinks we lose sight of the fact we do things for our own satisfaction first, everyone else second. I'll put money on it that if you blindfold me and put a guitar in my hands, I'll tell you if it is an amp or SIM every single time.

Edit: Someone needs to change the size of that humongous picture that is jacking up my browser width.
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Old 02-05-2016, 05:48 PM   #98
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If any of you guys put your hand up, I'd like you to know that you're a liar.
Do you by chance play with full on distortion all the time, that's what it sounds like reading your post.
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Old 02-05-2016, 08:29 PM   #99
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A lot of distortion, most of the time.

And yes, I've used modellers in a band setting previously - once you crank it up, good luck telling that it's a modeller coming out of your 4x12, or through the club's PA.
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Old 02-05-2016, 08:50 PM   #100
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A lot of distortion, most of the time.

And yes, I've used modellers in a band setting previously - once you crank it up, good luck telling that it's a modeller coming out of your 4x12, or through the club's PA.
I can tell immediately if I'm playing it, I'd love for that to not be the case but it isn't. Put it this way, I have a fair amount of money wasted trying to make that happen so it surely isn't bias to justify my purchase trying to do that and I'm 100% sure it is noticeable to me, the player.

I have no problem with high gain, use it from time to time myself but is a very small portion of the tonal requirements I need from the instrument. We have to grade the 'entire' gamut of tones people use and all of those must pass that grade in order to exclaim only liars can tell the difference. Not trying to give you grief, just sayin we should be careful about assuming every person complaining is either dishonest or is out of their mind.

If it doesn't bother someone, that's great, they should use it but that isn't always the case.
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Old 02-06-2016, 12:41 PM   #101
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Don't know why, but I ordered this today: http://en.customsounds.fi/kemper-pro..._from_store=fi

(I hope that Kemper profiling amp software isn't coming out anytime soon )
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Old 02-06-2016, 01:00 PM   #102
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My lovely little wide panel tweed deluxe clone cost me 200 pounds to build.
I bought an H&K Statesman 20 watt combo for 100 pounds.
These two amps cover 99% of what I do live, with just a couple of different compressor pedals, a slapback echo pedal and a univibe-alike pedal.
Little or no distortion and no real issues with carting two tiny amps around.
And in the studio it is sims all the way for convenience.
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Old 02-06-2016, 03:22 PM   #103
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Don't know why, but I ordered this today: http://en.customsounds.fi/kemper-pro..._from_store=fi

(I hope that Kemper profiling amp software isn't coming out anytime soon )
Don't worry... I don't believe that software will ever see the light of day (its just somebody's wet dream... )

Don't forget to stop by the Kemper forum, there are a lot of nice folks over there.

Enjoy your new Kemper!!


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Old 02-06-2016, 04:37 PM   #104
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I bought a Kemper a while back.
I am addicted to playing acoustic guitar.
so, I can rarely force myself to play electric guitar and use my Kemper.
note: there is a learning curve.
I have scratched the surface only.
my opinion:
the thing is just super cool. super fun.
and yes, many very cool people at the Kemper forum.
kind of like here.
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Old 02-08-2016, 02:34 AM   #105
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(its just somebody's wet dream... ):
Perhaps more like everybody's

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Old 02-08-2016, 06:49 AM   #106
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Don't worry... I don't believe that software will ever see the light of day (its just somebody's wet dream... )

Don't forget to stop by the Kemper forum, there are a lot of nice folks over there.

Enjoy your new Kemper!!


Thanks!

Now I'm just waiting anxiously for it to arrive
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Old 02-09-2016, 09:32 PM   #107
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I use SGear live, run on my laptop via Rig Kontrol.

It's not a Kemper, but it makes far and away the best and most versatile sounds I've been able to produce live.

I reckon Karbomusic would be able to tell blindfold that he's not playing through a Fender Twin Reverb, but that might have something to do with the fact that it breaks up nicely without deafening him ;-)

SGear through FRFR foldback is yummy. Even into the fx return of my Blackstar 12" it's pretty good.

My only concern is that my laptop is not rugged. If someone would just make a box (like an Eventide H9) that ran SGear, I'd be happy as a clam.
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Old 02-09-2016, 10:04 PM   #108
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I reckon Karbomusic would be able to tell blindfold that he's not playing through a Fender Twin Reverb, but that might have something to do with the fact that it breaks up nicely without deafening him ;-)
Hehe, I really dig my S-Gear but it would probably bug me live. I was using a Boogie Maverick then a Boogie DC5 live (since 1998) but now I use an Oldfield JC50. I also have almost every Pod ever made in my closet (rack, beans and pedalboards) but those and some other stuff I tried didn't work out for me live. Also have GR5, PodFarm and some other stuff.

To be fair, most of the amps I owned *before* I switched to Boogies then Oldfield didn't work for me either and they were tube amps but they didn't work out in a slightly different way. However, I haven't found any SIM that can replace how the the boogie feels, sounds and reacts and especially not the JC50. If it is working for someone else however, I say go for it.
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Old 02-10-2016, 05:51 AM   #109
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The Kemper is really cool but is the sound quality really $4,0000 better than say the freeware VSTs like Poulin and such? No, it's not. Does it even sound 100 times better than those same VSTs? No again. Not even going to get started on how crappy the Axefx are for recording imo. I see the benefit for touring bands and such but for recording, I can get tones with freeware that come awfully close to the same quality. Just one man's opinion but I would prefer to spend that 3-4K on really nice guitars.
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Old 02-10-2016, 06:35 AM   #110
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The Kemper is really cool but is the sound quality really $4,0000 better than say the freeware VSTs like Poulin and such?
Kemper's don't cost $4,000, I could buy two Kempers for that much money

and personally I do think it sounds that good.

Don't exaggerate to make a point, it doesn't help your arguement.

Just sayin'.


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Old 02-10-2016, 07:17 AM   #111
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Kemper's don't cost $4,000, I could buy two Kempers for that much money
I guess that depends where you live, they are expensive here in Australia .

http://bmusic.com.au/index.php?main_...cturers_id=123

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Old 02-10-2016, 07:25 AM   #112
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I guess that depends where you live, they are expensive here in Australia .

http://bmusic.com.au/index.php?main_...cturers_id=123

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Damn!!!


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Old 02-10-2016, 03:41 PM   #113
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Kemper's don't cost $4,000, I could buy two Kempers for that much money

and personally I do think it sounds that good.

Don't exaggerate to make a point, it doesn't help your arguement.

Just sayin'.


https://reverb.com/item/750598-kempe...ler-guitar-amp

$3,973CAD. I am Canadian so I should have noted that. But yes $4,000 and does it sound 4000X better than freeware? No, no it doesn't. Point valid. It doesn't even sound 500X better than freeware.
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Old 02-10-2016, 04:06 PM   #114
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How much does V-Piano cost again? Last time I checked it costs about $7000!
Maybe the Pyhsis might be interesting for some. It is offered for about $1000.

-Michael
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Old 02-10-2016, 07:25 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by xethicx View Post
https://reverb.com/item/750598-kempe...ler-guitar-amp

$3,973CAD. I am Canadian so I should have noted that. But yes $4,000 and does it sound 4000X better than freeware? No, no it doesn't. Point valid. It doesn't even sound 500X better than freeware.
Ahem: https://www.long-mcquade.com/18024/G..._Amplifier.htm

Personally, I find a Kemper way better than any VST I've played. $2000 better? Hard to say, but I can get good tones in five minutes with a KPA that I've never been able to get with a plugin - as I think I said earlier, for me it's mostly about the "3D" feel, especially compared to cab impulses. Hell, even impulses send better through the Kemper just because it tries to respond as if they were a real cab.
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Old 02-13-2016, 07:53 PM   #116
xethicx
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In addition to the 2-4K for the unit there's 20-200 bucks for the amp packs. That's a lot of cashola.
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Old 02-14-2016, 06:21 AM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xethicx View Post
In addition to the 2-4K for the unit there's 20-200 bucks for the amp packs. That's a lot of cashola.
Had a Kemper for two and a half years, haven't felt the need to pay for amps yet. There are a ton of good tones just in the factory content, plus a bunch of free packs floating around, and then the zillions on the rig exchange.
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Old 02-14-2016, 11:04 AM   #118
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I paid more than $1000 more to buy an Atomic amplifier CLR monitor to play it through.
I am thrilled with my KPA and the CLR.
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Old 02-14-2016, 01:45 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lokasenna View Post
Had a Kemper for two and a half years, haven't felt the need to pay for amps yet. There are a ton of good tones just in the factory content, plus a bunch of free packs floating around, and then the zillions on the rig exchange.
Didn't know about the rig exchange. I'd like to check out the Kemper further but for now when I see $2000+ free my brain screams GUITAR lol but in time maybe I'll grab one.
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Old 02-14-2016, 02:42 PM   #120
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yeah, roger that.
you're right. it is alot of money.
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