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Old 07-29-2020, 03:56 PM   #1
superblonde.org
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Default Possible Solutions for installing Plugins on Catalina

I installed a couple vsti's recently in catalina and didnt have a problem other than trying to figure out all the hoops to jump through to download free versions and/or install the companys' installers which would then do some installation. for example I installed bbc orchestra from spitfire audio (talk about hoops to jump thru, to get it free... yikes).

I had some confusion because I couldnt find them in reaper. turned out to be one of the few times when rebooting made everything appear properly.

To run unsigned apps or plugins I have never had to go into terminal or run commands. I run the unsigned installer-app, catalina complains, then I go to system preferences (i.e. like "control panel") and then under the Security pane there is a red warning icon which says "blah blah app is trying to run, allow it to run?" and click Ok. Then re-run the app again.

Btw this does not turn off security features. Except for that 1 app. All subsequent attempts of other apps will still have to go thru the same deny-then-manually-allow process.
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Old 07-30-2020, 08:34 AM   #2
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I just installed 4front piano on catalina.

1. Download it from the website as zip

2. Using Finder, copy-paste the library file into my Library path,
/Users/jonathan/Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/VST

3. Using Finder, Rename to .vst extension as it says in it's readme
4Front Piano.vst

Now I have the VST file,
/Users/jonathan/Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/VST/4Front Piano.vst

Which by the way says it is (just checking that it is 64 bit):
Code:
% file /Users/jonathan/Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/VST/4Front\ Piano.vst/Contents/MacOS/4Front\ Piano
/Users/jonathan/Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/VST/4Front Piano.vst/Contents/MacOS/4Front Piano: Mach-O universal binary with 3 architectures: [ppc_7400:Mach-O bundle ppc_7400] [x86_64] [i386]
/Users/jonathan/Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/VST/4Front Piano.vst/Contents/MacOS/4Front Piano (for architecture ppc7400):	Mach-O bundle ppc_7400
/Users/jonathan/Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/VST/4Front Piano.vst/Contents/MacOS/4Front Piano (for architecture x86_64):	Mach-O 64-bit bundle x86_64
/Users/jonathan/Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/VST/4Front Piano.vst/Contents/MacOS/4Front Piano (for architecture i386):	Mach-O bundle i386
4. Run this single command in Terminal to allow this single library to always open:

Code:
sudo xattr -rd com.apple.quarantine "/Users/jonathan/Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/VST/4Front Piano.vst"
5. Run Reaper as normal, it scans VSTs and sees the new one.





So yeah you are correct that unsigned VSTi requires a Terminal command. Normally I don't install these. But there could easily be a utility app to do this for the user if they don't want to type the one simple command in Terminal. Plus the utility could verify the VST is 64-bit.

In another 4 years all these VSTi's will have to be recompiled for Apple ARM anyway or they won't run at all on new hardware. So really this is a short transition timeframe.


For those with lots of VSTi then they could run a recursive Terminal command to unsecure all their VSTi in one operation (somewhat less safe, definitely).. something like,

find ~/Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/VST -name "*.vst" -exec sudo xattr -rd com.apple.quarantine "{}" \;

Last edited by superblonde.org; 07-30-2020 at 08:56 AM.
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Old 07-30-2020, 10:49 AM   #3
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Default Possible Solutions for installing Plugins on Catalina

Given that many free and 3rd party plugins can no longer normally be installed in catalina, there are some potential workarounds:

https://www.osirisguitar.com/how-to-...acos-catalina/

If you have any that works, please post them! Thanks superblonde
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Old 07-31-2020, 02:02 PM   #4
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The solution is to have developers digitally-sign their plugins.
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Old 07-31-2020, 09:16 PM   #5
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That's a terrible hardship for those developers giving away their time and labor for the good of all of us.
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Old 08-01-2020, 09:41 AM   #6
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A bit off topic but it is not a hardship to sign code. It is part of the build system and happens automatically when pressing the same "Build" button as before. Yes it takes extra steps for the developer to setup the first time, but it's no more difficult than, for example, updating the web page of a plugin to tell everyone there's an update. It will also take a few extra steps to setup the ARM build system the first time for the new ARM mac's, also no big deal. The code signing improves security and reliability. Developers simply need to run some commands to create a key, etc. Users will see that a plugin is signed and will be more likely to download and install the plugin. The requirement will happen to Microsoft plugins too eventually in the future, just as usual Apple is ahead of Microsoft.

About Code Signing
https://developer.apple.com/library/...roduction.html

Once the developer has created a signature then it only takes one command to sign a plugin:
Code:
codesign -s <identity> <code-path>
That's only needed if it's done manually, as normally it is made to be automatic, inside the regular single-button-click "Build" step.

Everything for a developer is a "hardship". Dealing with hardship is a way of life as a developer.. always new technology, always new changes, to roll with the cycle of upgrade improvements, that's why we are not still running Amiga's today.
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Old 08-01-2020, 10:43 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superblonde.org View Post
A bit off topic but it is not a hardship to sign code. It is part of the build system and happens automatically when pressing the same "Build" button as before. Yes it takes extra steps for the developer to setup the first time, but it's no more difficult than, for example, updating the web page of a plugin to tell everyone there's an update. It will also take a few extra steps to setup the ARM build system the first time for the new ARM mac's, also no big deal. The code signing improves security and reliability. Developers simply need to run some commands to create a key, etc. Users will see that a plugin is signed and will be more likely to download and install the plugin. The requirement will happen to Microsoft plugins too eventually in the future, just as usual Apple is ahead of Microsoft.

About Code Signing
https://developer.apple.com/library/...roduction.html

Once the developer has created a signature then it only takes one command to sign a plugin:
Code:
codesign -s <identity> <code-path>
That's only needed if it's done manually, as normally it is made to be automatic, inside the regular single-button-click "Build" step.

Everything for a developer is a "hardship". Dealing with hardship is a way of life as a developer.. always new technology, always new changes, to roll with the cycle of upgrade improvements, that's why we are not still running Amiga's today.
This doesn't work. Try it. Grab a juce build, build a test plug and try it. You have to pay the extortion
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Old 08-01-2020, 11:25 AM   #8
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So, your complaint is something unrelated to technical issues. It is very easy for a developer to create a signed plugin and it takes no effort once set up, it is not a hardship for developers.

Perhaps your real complaint should be: why can't small developers, or significant contributors in general, easily receive financial compensation of at least a few hundred dollars per year from their efforts to create, build and distribute free plugins.
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Old 08-01-2020, 11:34 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superblonde.org View Post
So, your complaint is something unrelated to technical issues.
No, it is a technical issue

Quote:
It is very easy for a developer to create a signed plugin and it takes no effort once set up, it is not a hardship for developers.
Yes it is, and its quite expensive to do so, and quite a barrier for those making free plugins

Quote:
Perhaps your real complaint should be: why can't small developers, or significant contributors in general, easily receive financial compensation of at least a few hundred dollars per year from their efforts to create, build and distribute free plugins.
Perhaps it could also be that, but my chief complain is the artificial gate recently put in front of a previously working system
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Old 08-01-2020, 01:54 PM   #10
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This is definitely off topic now, or maybe not, but anyways.

A $100/year developer license is not "expensive" and only needs to be done by 1 person in a larger organization. By comparison, keeping a personal website to allow downloading a plugin costs more than that per year. By comparison, the average small club concert attendee spends close to or much more than $100 per single night for the average music night out (ticket + transport + parking + drinks).

Again the real complaint should be: why can't small independent developers easily receive financial rewards for their contributions to the plugin community which surpasses any minor development cost. The answer: Because there is no marketplace which allows users to buy their goods and/or the developers themselves are not participating in a marketplace. A Plugin repository which provides a code-signed installer for a large variety of plugins is a marketplace. Solution: independent developers should contribute their libraries to a plugin repository which bundles, certifies and installs them for users. Also known as: create a marketplace. The solution is not: Place arbitrary library binaries on ad hoc blogs all across the internet for users to download & install unsafely as machine administrator without any reliability or accountability checks on the library. It is not an artificial gate, the prior user method of copying an unaccoutable DLL into an operating system is a massive hole, it is a bug, which apparently now has been patched. Microsoft itself wanted to eliminate DLL's entirely from the user's control way back in early NT, especially because their system always corrupts a user's collection of DLL's as part of its normal operation. Microsoft did not do that back then because they did not have the technology or infrastructure to provide it. Apple has the technology and infrastructure, so they finally patched the hole.

Last edited by superblonde.org; 08-01-2020 at 02:01 PM.
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Old 08-01-2020, 02:39 PM   #11
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Only a die hard mac user could ever suggest that a plugin developer making FREE plugins should pay money to do so, on top of the countless hours they put in to making the FREE plugin.
(And yes I use macs and Windows before anybody tries to act superior)
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Old 08-01-2020, 02:57 PM   #12
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If you are referring to my suggested solution then I suggest re-reading the paragraph a few times. Yes, really re-read it. What I suggested is that plugin developers should contribute their plugins to a package repository of plugins which has a code-signed installer.

Three musician developers walk into a bar. The first says, "Gimmie a cigarette, I'mma smoke on the patio first." (Cost per 1 pack: $7, goes through 3 packs a week.) The second says, "Hold up lemme finish my Starbucks before going in." (Cost per latte: $7, goes through 5 lattes a week.) The third says, "It's cool I'll get the first pitcher." (Cost per pitcher: $7, goes through 3 pitchers per week.) The Bartender says: "We don't allow developers in here, they're not willing to pay $33 cover charge each for an entire decade of admittance." All three look at each other and say: "This place should be free! I'm not spending $33 to be here for a decade! I contribute to this place's atmosphere!" The bartender says: "Read the sign, you can earn back more than that if you take tips from the audience." All three look at each other and say: "We're not taking tips! We give away our contributions free and we ain't paying nothin!" The bartender nods to the bouncer who throws them out.

This is why I said it is no longer a technical issue. It is a psychology problem.
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Old 08-01-2020, 07:22 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Win Conway View Post
Only a die hard mac user could ever suggest that a plugin developer making FREE plugins should pay money to do so, on top of the countless hours they put in to making the FREE plugin.
(And yes I use macs and Windows before anybody tries to act superior)
Thank you! ^&**(*&** horrible to force someone who has given so goddamn much to the community to pay for the privilege of helping others
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Old 08-04-2020, 01:58 PM   #14
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Glenn Fricker did a video where some of our plugs are used today and holy hell the catalina users are having install issues.

Its not as simple as people make it out to be "just codesign it" They's singed, and its not a simple process, its 99 dollars for entry but in order to actually do anything sensible with it its more like 500 per year

And it still doesn't work.

Sadly these same installers were working even on catalina not so long ago.

What a nightmare

Here's codesigned for around 500 dollars per year. Worked even in catalina a few months ago:


Last edited by pipelineaudio; 08-04-2020 at 02:06 PM.
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