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10-15-2018, 02:03 PM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,770
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VCAs in Studio One are nice
I started playing with studio one 4 and I find that the VCAs are so intuitive and make so much sense that I wonder why Reaper can't do it. They have a nice VCA channel/track that gets added with a red cap to indicate it and when you move it, the slave track faders also move. Also, automation on the VCA can be folded down into the tracks automation. You can also do subfolders. Too painful in Reaper devs. Anyone else feel this pain and need it to stop ?
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10-15-2018, 02:37 PM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 7,571
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Other than slave tracks moving at the same time as the vca this is all possible
red fader cap - use SWS Autocolor to assign the tcp/mcp layout
writing vca automation to tracks, use either of these actions
Envelope: Apply all VCAs from selected tracks to grouped tracks and reset volume/pan/mute
Envelope: Apply all VCAs to selected tracks and remove from VCA groups
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10-15-2018, 02:41 PM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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Most of this was discussed/sussed out for a month or few in the pre-release forum as VCAs were being implemented - mostly by those most invested in needing VCAs. Kenny has some great vids on demonstrating some of the items mentioned as well.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
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10-15-2018, 02:48 PM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,770
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Thanks for the replies. I'll check it out again in Reaper. The nested subfolders might not even be working right in Studio One because I did notice the nested VCA move down with all the other tracks and I don't think it should have. It might be reducing the levels by double by having the nested VCA. If anybody has a nice project with nested subfolders and VCAs I'll be happy to take a look at it and thanks again
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10-15-2018, 02:49 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,770
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicSounds
Other than slave tracks moving at the same time as the vca this is all possible
red fader cap - use SWS Autocolor to assign the tcp/mcp layout
writing vca automation to tracks, use either of these actions
Envelope: Apply all VCAs from selected tracks to grouped tracks and reset volume/pan/mute
Envelope: Apply all VCAs to selected tracks and remove from VCA groups
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In the past vcas would not work with nested folders. Is this doable now?
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10-15-2018, 03:25 PM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 7,571
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its up to you to choose what goes in the group. Wouldn't make sense (to me) to have a vca controlling a folder's fader, plus the individual tracks inside the folder.
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10-15-2018, 03:48 PM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,770
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicSounds
its up to you to choose what goes in the group. Wouldn't make sense (to me) to have a vca controlling a folder's fader, plus the individual tracks inside the folder.
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That makes sense. For me it's a good idea because as you can see in my example I have a background vocals folder a lead vocals folder and those are going to the vocals folder. So given an example where you want to pull down just background vocals or just lead vocals or all vocals, any of those three would need to result in the appropriate faders coming down along with their sends.
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10-15-2018, 03:50 PM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,770
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic
Most of this was discussed/sussed out for a month or few in the pre-release forum as VCAs were being implemented - mostly by those most invested in needing VCAs. Kenny has some great vids on demonstrating some of the items mentioned as well.
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During the original discussion some wanted ghost faders to show which faders were being affected as you moved a VCA fader but that never came to be though I think it's an important feature.
Last edited by Coachz; 10-16-2018 at 05:09 AM.
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10-15-2018, 04:26 PM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz
It during the original discussion some wanted ghost faders to show which faders were being affected as you moved a VCA fader but that never came to be though I think it's an important feature.
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I remember that part of the discussion, hence the mention.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
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10-15-2018, 04:30 PM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz
That makes sense. For me it's a good idea because as you can see in my example I have a background vocals folder a lead vocals folder and those are going to the vocals folder. So given an example where you want to pull down just background vocals or just lead vocals or all vocals, any of those three would need to result in the appropriate faders coming down along with their sends.
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I quit using VCAs with folder children (to satisfy send proportion issues) because it then screws up being able to place non-linear plugins on the folder without their input level being affected. There is another method that involves flowing the sends through additional channels on the folder itself, on the way to the external FX track, which solves both issues IIRC.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
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10-15-2018, 04:34 PM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,770
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic
I quit using VCAs with folder's children (to satisfy send proportion issues) because it then screws up being able to place non-linear plugins on the folder without their input level being affected. There is another method that involves flowing the sends through additional channels on the folder itself, on the way to the external FX track, which solves both issues IIRC.
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Exactly, like a nice saturation plugin on a drum folder would get starved when the VCA pulled down all the sub tracks. Can you tell me more about your flowing the sends technique?
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10-15-2018, 04:36 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz
Exactly, like a nice saturation plugin on a drum folder would get starved when the VCA pulled down all the sub tracks. Can you tell me more about your flowing the sends technique?
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I'm trying to remember tbh LOL.... I think it's a simple as 'sending' the child to the folder also on say 3/4 then sending the folder's 3/4 to the FX track. Then only children that employ that routing hit the FX, with the side-benefit of the folder volume controlling the main volume (1/2) and the feed to the FX track (3/4). If you were sending to several external FX tracks then 5/6, 7/8 etc. so it is a tiny bit less convenient but if memory serves, solves a lot of PIA issues. I know that's close without testing it to refresh my memory but it's that or something close to that.
How's Charleston? Any flooding? Charlotte here, two hurricanes, no issues thus far.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
Last edited by karbomusic; 10-15-2018 at 04:41 PM.
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10-15-2018, 04:49 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,770
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic
I'm trying to remember tbh LOL.... I think it's a simple as 'sending' the child to the folder also on say 3/4 then sending the folder's 3/4 to the FX track. Then only children that employ that routing hit the FX, with the side-benefit of the folder volume controlling the main volume (1/2) and the feed to the FX track (3/4). If you were sending to several external FX tracks then 5/6, 7/8 etc. so it is a tiny bit less convenient but if memory serves, solves a lot of PIA issues. I know that's close without testing it to refresh my memory but it's that or something close to that.
How's Charleston? Any flooding? Charlotte here, two hurricanes, no issues thus far.
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All ok here thank goodness. I had enough in 2015 when my house went bye bye. Since Kenny doesn't want to hang out with me here in Charleston maybe I'll drive up to Charlotte and hang out with you. He he
https://www.google.com/search?q=berc...BeG6R-XT2KyD2M
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10-15-2018, 04:51 PM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,770
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic
I'm trying to remember tbh LOL.... I think it's a simple as 'sending' the child to the folder also on say 3/4 then sending the folder's 3/4 to the FX track. Then only children that employ that routing hit the FX, with the side-benefit of the folder volume controlling the main volume (1/2) and the feed to the FX track (3/4). If you were sending to several external FX tracks then 5/6, 7/8 etc. so it is a tiny bit less convenient but if memory serves, solves a lot of PIA issues. I know that's close without testing it to refresh my memory but it's that or something close to that.
How's Charleston? Any flooding? Charlotte here, two hurricanes, no issues thus far.
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Yeah I remember that idea but i bet it would suck to manage.
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10-15-2018, 04:58 PM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz
All ok here thank goodness. I had enough in 2015 when my house went bye bye. Since Kenny doesn't want to hang out with me here in Charleston maybe I'll drive up to Charlotte and hang out with you. He he
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Anytime!
Yea I remember the tornado, that would freak me out. I used to occasionally gig in Charleston but haven't done so since 2000 or so, then I lived in Myrtle Beach for 6 years before coming back to charlotte.
The send thing isn't too bad, just drag the folder IO button to the FX track, set the channel while the dialog is up, do the same for the children to the folder track as you add them, and it's pretty much set and forget. IOW, if you need to change a track send level later, it's the same as it's always been except for managing individual receives from the FX track's receive dialog.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
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10-15-2018, 05:05 PM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,770
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic
Anytime!
Yea I remember the tornado, that would freak me out. I used to occasionally gig in Charleston but haven't done so since 2000 or so, then I lived in Myrtle Beach for 6 years before coming back to charlotte.
The send thing isn't too bad, just drag the folder IO button to the FX track, set the channel while the dialog is up, do the same for the children to the folder track as you add them, and it's pretty much set and forget. IOW, if you need to change a track send level later, it's the same as it's always been except for managing individual receives from the FX track's receive dialog.
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Maybe working by myself it would be okay but if I had a band sitting around me like I used to and was trying to figure out where to Route things as I was adding new tracks for new vocals or new guitar parts I think it would be a nightmare. I thought computers were supposed to do all this shit for us?
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10-15-2018, 05:15 PM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz
and was trying to figure out where to Route things as I was adding new tracks for new vocals or new guitar parts I think it would be a nightmare.
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I smoke the good stuff too. jk. I remember you handled some pretty complex stuff, for me personally, it was less confusing/brain fart risky than using VCAs to control folder children but YMMV on that one.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
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10-16-2018, 04:54 AM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,770
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I tested Studio One again this morning and found that the VCAs don't control the sends for child tracks just like Reaper. Really makes them useless for me. Such a glaring oversight imo.
This will get me through it !!!!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GBw2897sOM
No, we're never gonna quit
Ain't nothing wrong with it
Just acting like we're animals
No, no matter where we go
'Cause everybody knows
We're just a couple of animals
Last edited by Coachz; 10-16-2018 at 05:00 AM.
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10-16-2018, 05:53 AM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Black Forest
Posts: 5,054
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That's my experience with S1 as well, some really nice ideas, but not thought through.
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10-16-2018, 05:58 AM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,770
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Stevie_
That's my experience with S1 as well, some really nice ideas, but not thought through.
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Between that and they can't do preroll, punch in, and looping at once. When doing comps and trying to drop a few takes you really need the preroll to get the context of where to come in. It's such an oversight. In Reaper it's better but the take system is still non-intuitive.
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