Old 08-29-2019, 07:59 PM   #1
Neutronic
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Default v5.983+dev0829a - August 29 2019

v5.983+dev0829a - August 29 2019
+ MIDI editor: combine note properties and event properties into one modeless dialog
+ MIDI: support linear and curve CC envelopes

v5.983+dev0829 - August 29 2019
+ Main window: allow positioning TCP on right side of arrange

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Old 08-29-2019, 08:53 PM   #2
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Modeless properties dialog:

Maybe nitpick: when having the window open, e.g. Position and Value are updated immediately, but Bezier tension needs 'update triggering' by doing something else like moving the point (as in gif) or closing / reopening window.

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Old 08-29-2019, 09:56 PM   #3
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Wooooohooooo! It's back!
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Old 08-29-2019, 10:12 PM   #4
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About the new modeless properties dialog: there might be some usability issues with this when using the option to move CCs with notes, CCs get selected as soon as notes are selected. Which will make it hard to tweak JUST the note data or JUST the CC data, because event properties dialog will always show "mixed". Maybe it could be smarter and focus on note or CC data depending on where last mouse cursor focus was - the piano roll or CC lane areas?
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Old 08-29-2019, 10:15 PM   #5
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Also, it would be really great if there'd be a native option to convert freehand drawn CC curve to as fewer Bezier nodes as possible. Sort of similar to "Reduce envelope point data when recording or drawing automation" option.
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Old 08-30-2019, 12:21 AM   #6
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v5.983+dev0829 - August 29 2019
+ Main window: allow positioning TCP on right side of arrange

[/QUOTE]

This is REALLY cool!!! Thankyou!

Could we please have the ability to do this with the FX chain window as well??
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Old 08-30-2019, 03:24 AM   #7
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Quote:
+ Main window: allow positioning TCP on right side of arrange

Graphic shaking on right side of panel. To consider if panel on right side should be mirror flipped.
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Old 08-30-2019, 03:27 AM   #8
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This update is gold, Jerry! Gold!
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Old 08-30-2019, 04:06 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Also, it would be really great if there'd be a native option to convert freehand drawn CC curve to as fewer Bezier nodes as possible. Sort of similar to "Reduce envelope point data when recording or drawing automation" option.

I totally agree with ED; that would be extremely useful to streamline MIDI editing.


Thanks so much, by the way, for the return of linear and curved CC envelopes!! Already using it...
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Old 08-30-2019, 04:09 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neutronic View Post
v5.983+dev0829a - August 29 2019

+ MIDI: support linear and curve CC envelopes
this makes my day
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Old 08-30-2019, 04:49 AM   #11
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Quote:
+ MIDI support linear and curve CC envelopes

Super! Thank you!!!
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Old 08-30-2019, 04:53 AM   #12
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Another thing : there doesn´t seem to be a way set default shape of CC events via action list, does it? That is also really needed in my opinion; right now I can only see that option in the preferences...

Edit : Copying and Pasting of CC events in different lanes doesn´t respect their corresponding shapes. Pasted events show square shapes only, at least here.

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Old 08-30-2019, 05:24 AM   #13
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Quote:
+ Main window allow positioning TCP on right side of arrange
Ohh thank you Devs!Now I can make fully identical ableton theme for my config.
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Old 08-30-2019, 08:08 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soli Deo Gloria View Post
Edit : Copying and Pasting of CC events in different lanes doesn´t respect their corresponding shapes. Pasted events show square shapes only, at least here.
Yup, can confirm. Happens when pasting in same lane too.
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Old 08-30-2019, 09:06 AM   #15
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Found a nasty bug. Buttons for the Filter and for Event Properties do not update the status change:

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Old 08-30-2019, 09:41 AM   #16
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CC shapes and conversions seem to work nicely as far as I can tell after some quick testing.

Is there a way to control the density of interpolated events? Ideally it would spit out more dense events on steeper segments and vice versa, i think.
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Old 08-30-2019, 10:04 AM   #17
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Some oddness with the way the mix knob in the fx browser is displaying. Plus also ReaComp looks a bit weird in Default 5 and Default 6 alpha themes. See attached. That's the way ReaComp looks in Default 5 and Default 6 alpha themes. Examples of the mix knob for Default 4/5/6 are shown too.

I'm using Reaper for Linux.
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Old 08-30-2019, 12:28 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer View Post
Is there a way to control the density of interpolated events? Ideally it would spit out more dense events on steeper segments and vice versa, i think.
See Preferences->Editing behavior->MIDI Editor->Playback interpolation.


My question here is: will this playback interpolation SKIP redundant duplicate events? Especially important for sending MIDI to external hardware devices.


EDIT: After doing some MIDI event logging, this interpolation seems to be 14-bit always. To me this should only happen if you are actually using the 14-bit MIDI CC lanes, it should NOT happen when you use regular 7-bit lanes individually (and yes, skipping the redundant duplicate events regardless of playback interpolation setting).
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Old 08-31-2019, 01:19 AM   #19
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Ah, thanks ED, seems my beta-fu has gotten a bit rusty

Yeah, interpolating with LSB is undoubtedly well meant, but in practice it's not really a good idea.
Most plugins don't even allow to assign 14bit. In consequence few users think about the 14bit MSB/LSB CC pair specs when assigning plugin parameters to MIDI CC.
The user may have CC2 assigned to one thing and CC34 to something entirely different. Right now, if he creates a curved CC1 automation, that will make the CC34 parameter do a wild dance.

Reaper has its 14bit lanes, so if the user wants 14bit interpolation, he can easily use those.
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Old 08-31-2019, 01:50 AM   #20
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Yep, that was my point. You don't want to do 14-bit interpolation when the user doesn't want it or could mess things up otherwise (LSB CC MIDI learned to a different parameter altogether).
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Old 08-31-2019, 03:15 AM   #21
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Plus you don‘t see in the MIDI editor where those „virtual“ events come from, as the corresponding LSB CC lane stays empty and they aren‘t coming up in the event list either.
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Old 08-31-2019, 04:02 AM   #22
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Yep, yep. Please remedy that, devs
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Old 08-31-2019, 09:40 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Yep, that was my point. You don't want to do 14-bit interpolation when the user doesn't want it or could mess things up otherwise (LSB CC MIDI learned to a different parameter altogether).
I think this is a good idea in general. A couple questions on this (warning: some may be dumb...)

1) Can Reaper tell what is 14-bit data and what isn't? If not, it would be hard to automatically set 14-bit interpolation "mode" for 14-bit data. Unless data in CC lanes 32-63 assumes 14-bit? (Per ED's comment above about setting LSB to something different this could be pretty dangerous though)

2) If there isn't a safe way to automatically set 7/14-bit interpolation, should it just be a preference/option?

3) If 14-bit interpolation is a pref/option, would there be a way to set that per lane? I use a lot of 14-bit data but obviously you don't want that for every CC as like ED said, that could really mess things up for certain hardware/software instruments.

Btw, I just wanted to say thank you so much for continuing to work on curves/interpolation for CC lanes. Huge game game changer in terms of workflow!
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Old 08-31-2019, 10:12 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesPeters View Post
Some oddness with the way the mix knob in the fx browser is displaying. Plus also ReaComp looks a bit weird in Default 5 and Default 6 alpha themes. See attached. That's the way ReaComp looks in Default 5 and Default 6 alpha themes. Examples of the mix knob for Default 4/5/6 are shown too.

I'm using Reaper for Linux.

I thought the rabbit poo thing was a Windows10 thing when you scale Windows above 117%, Default 6 is black and even more authentic on Linux..
Cant test revisit Windows stuff atm though, maby later, because, i think I made it go away by not scaleing, if the knob was a perfect circle, don't remember..
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Old 08-31-2019, 10:22 AM   #25
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By the way, what is the: "Default shape for CC segments -> Playback interpolation"? Default is eight (8). What does it mean?
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Old 08-31-2019, 12:09 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmajjL View Post
I thought the rabbit poo thing was a Windows10 thing when you scale Windows above 117%, Default 6 is black and even more authentic on Linux..
I'm not using scaling. Just 1920*1080 or 1920*1200 depending on the monitor.
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Old 08-31-2019, 12:29 PM   #27
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Ok, so on Windows10 this is the case, 100% scale is perfect circle and 125% scale is not perfect circle, D5 is bright rabbit poo and D6 dark rabbit poo.

--

Properties/compatibility/Change high DPI/Override to system works but, a minor problem with that.. all gets bigger.. Aware + Ignore on this quick test btw.
And I've noticed this aaaages ago, so not v5.983+dev0829's fault I think.
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Old 08-31-2019, 01:00 PM   #28
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I've been using the Default 6 alpha since it was released and this is the first dev build that I've noticed the mix knob looking weird. I use the mix knob regularly in my fx chains (it's an integral part of how I mix) and even when I don't use it, I notice something that stands out like that. My eyes are drawn to it.

It may not have started with this dev build but it's probably recent. I skip the odd dev build, pre-release, or official build. I prefer to stick with a dev build that has the stuff I want to test, and wait for another dev cycle to start.
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Old 08-31-2019, 01:07 PM   #29
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Yeah the large knob image in the v6 alpha theme is bad, I'll mention that to WT...
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Old 08-31-2019, 01:12 PM   #30
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Thanks. The knob looks weird for V4 and V5 themes too in their own ways. V4 knob looks kind of like the outline is incomplete, and V5 looks oddly shaped (not quite circular)...although that aspect might have been there for a long time, since I don't find it as distracting as how the V6 theme's knob currently looks.
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Old 08-31-2019, 04:45 PM   #31
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Yep, a looong time.. but we are going up in res and so scaling might be used more often now.
Thanks Justin.
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Old 08-31-2019, 06:46 PM   #32
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This knob looks like that because theme creator has put yellow/pink lines on this gfx asset. In Reaper v5 areas marked by yellow/pink lines are not being scaled to required dpi. It directly causes the effect of making a circle to be square-like if GUI is being requested to be dpi-scaled. Reaper v6 has this behavior fixed.

Interesting is, using pink/yellow lines for knobs does't even make sense. at least unless reaper treats them in some special way, different than other images. By default pink/yellow areas can mark rectangular areas only, so how could it apply to circular shape?

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Old 08-31-2019, 10:28 PM   #33
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This version weird behaviour:

-double-clicking on Timeline no longer Selects Region while song is playing, but works correctly when playhead stopped
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Old 09-01-2019, 02:02 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klangfarben View Post
I think this is a good idea in general. A couple questions on this (warning: some may be dumb...)

1) Can Reaper tell what is 14-bit data and what isn't? If not, it would be hard to automatically set 14-bit interpolation "mode" for 14-bit data. Unless data in CC lanes 32-63 assumes 14-bit? (Per ED's comment above about setting LSB to something different this could be pretty dangerous though)

2) If there isn't a safe way to automatically set 7/14-bit interpolation, should it just be a preference/option?

3) If 14-bit interpolation is a pref/option, would there be a way to set that per lane? I use a lot of 14-bit data but obviously you don't want that for every CC as like ED said, that could really mess things up for certain hardware/software instruments.

Btw, I just wanted to say thank you so much for continuing to work on curves/interpolation for CC lanes. Huge game game changer in terms of workflow!
14-bit data can be recognized. LSB CC needs to go directly after the MSB CC in order to be recognized as 14-bit. But as far as Reaper, the easiest way to go about it is to only do 14-bit interpolation on 14-bit CC lanes if they're used, and do regular 7-bit with all others.
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Old 09-01-2019, 02:43 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
LSB CC needs to go directly after the MSB CC in order to be recognized as 14-bit.
Recognized by who/what? Because the MIDI spec (v96.1-3) very clearly states that MSB and LSB can be sent independently...
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Old 09-01-2019, 03:41 AM   #36
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Maybe I'm missing something here, but... do you really have to click "apply" each time you want to change a property in tension and/or type of an envelope node?

Even though I'm quite happy that work is going on this feature, I find this approach a bit inconvenient and cumbersome workflow-wise...

Thanks,
Mario
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Old 09-01-2019, 06:26 AM   #37
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Nice heads up mabian!
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Old 09-01-2019, 07:12 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mabian View Post
do you really have to click "apply" each time you want to change a property in tension and/or type of an envelope node?
It's the same behavior as, say, moving the volume slider in the media item properties dialog.
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Old 09-01-2019, 07:55 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
It's the same behavior as, say, moving the volume slider in the media item properties dialog.
Understood, but for both cases, more important on tension in my possible workflow, I think it would be quite great to be able to define mouse/keyboard modifiers to tweak these settings in envelope nodes, without even having to have the event properties panel open...

Does it make sense?

Thanks,
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Old 09-01-2019, 07:58 AM   #40
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Quote:
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Understood, but for both cases, more important on tension in my possible workflow ...
yep yep ! IMO transport bar is the perfect place or an info bar which does not exist in reaper! or make a flexible info bar section in transport .. i don't know...
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