Old 05-04-2019, 04:35 AM   #81
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Can Reaper get interval lines from note to note in piano roll* as well? See the link below, where I added graphics and explanations.

* https://github.com/michaelsjackson/r...orums/issues/1
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Old 05-04-2019, 04:43 AM   #82
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That has nothing to do with CC envelopes discussion, at all.
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Old 05-04-2019, 04:48 AM   #83
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But it has with piano roll, where midi cc envelopes are part of, so why only improving the envelopes but not the notes? Both is better, as the source codes should be same place, you know my friend.
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Old 05-04-2019, 04:49 AM   #84
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What's the title of this thread? Does it contain "piano roll" in it? It doesn't. So, you're off-topic.
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Old 05-04-2019, 05:05 AM   #85
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I am in-topic in the off topic, btw. for listening to midi compositions I am not using Reaper at all, loading midi files in Synthesia, loading synths in buze, all in wine in linux, watching the played notes in Synthesia, all wonderful, wonderful display, wonderful sound, even when used cheapest piano vst like S-YXG50, advantage is low cpu consumption, thanks to great reverbs available for buzz, like HALYverb and Funkyverb.

midi > Synthesia > buze > S-YXG50 (piano vst) > HALYverb || Funkyverb.

Piano enjoyment in purest and simplest form.

Now what is missing is the analysis part. What is available is MusicGraph, but as a Reaper user, Reaper could take over this job, wonderfully, getting best composition and analysis environment. Synthesia and buze as best playing environment, if you do not want to compose anything, not analyze anything, just enjoying listening to great midi compositions.
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Old 05-05-2019, 09:41 AM   #86
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What's the title of this thread? Does it contain "piano roll" in it? It doesn't. So, you're off-topic.
The dragon sometimes has his red cheeks

Totally off topic, but the forum seems less polite now 2c
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Old 05-05-2019, 11:14 AM   #87
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I agree with ED. It was completely off topic and should have been posted in Feature Requests not here. It literally had nothing to do with CC Envelopes and isn't relevant to the discussion and testing of this new CC implementation.
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Old 05-06-2019, 06:16 AM   #88
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There's no modifier for square mode, there's a default curve option for MIDI CC envs in Prefs->Editing Behavior->MIDI Editor that is by default set to square. You don't have to do anything.
Sorry, but I can't find this in Prefs->Editing Behavior->MIDI Editor. Where can I set the default curve mode? Did a search in preferences, no result.
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Old 05-06-2019, 06:31 AM   #89
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That option is not there in the current CC envelopes implementation. It was in the older one, several dev cycles ago.
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Old 05-06-2019, 09:56 AM   #90
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That option is not there in the current CC envelopes implementation. It was in the older one, several dev cycles ago.
Is the CC envelopes feature still planned.
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Old 05-06-2019, 10:18 AM   #91
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Quote:
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Is the CC envelopes feature still planned.
schwa's comment about it:
https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...0&postcount=72
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Old 05-06-2019, 01:43 PM   #92
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thanks, so let's wait.
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Old 07-11-2019, 08:13 AM   #93
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REAPER is step-by-step moving away from the plain MIDI standard. First, MIDI events got flags for selected and muted states, then notation was added, and now CC envelopes.

Perhaps this is a good time to completely re-think how REAPER stores MIDI data.

In particular, notes can be transformed into miniature "items" that store more than just a note-on:

* Instead of separate note-ons and note-offs, each note event can store the note length. This will avoid all the problems with overlapping notes that get infinitely extended or chopped off.

* Each note can store its own polyphonic aftertouch events, which will allow REAPER to eventually develop something similar to Cubase's "note expression".

* Each note can store its own notation, so that scripts don't have to search the MIDI stream for a matching notation event.
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Old 07-11-2019, 11:40 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
Perhaps this is a good time to completely re-think how REAPER stores MIDI data.

In particular, notes can be transformed into miniature "items" that store more than just a note-on
This would be absolutely brilliant and really the ultimate goal.
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Old 07-11-2019, 11:56 AM   #95
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Yep, I like the idea as well.
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Old 07-14-2019, 04:39 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
* Instead of separate note-ons and note-offs, each note event can store the note length. This will avoid all the problems with overlapping notes that get infinitely extended or chopped off.
yes, extremely important.

this will also allow for items that contain midi notes that extend past the item end. this crucial for pickups and chords whose notes don't all begin at item start/x.1.1.



if i'm trying to split/copy move the above chord, where a strum is simulated, i cannot split on the 3.1.1 without creating unwanted multiple notes. desired behavior: the first 2 notes go in item 1, full length, and the 3rd note goes in item 2, full length.

in the MPC series, "items" were called "sequences" and behaved as described above. you could go from one sequence/item to another and long notes held from the previous sequence would keep playing until their length had been reached (this was overridden by the stop button)

i'm aware of snap offset, but that presents its own problems (overlapping midi items) in the case where you're pasting midi over existing midi. overlapping midi items are horror for people using midi overdub.

Quote:
In particular, notes can be transformed into miniature "items" that store more than just a note-on
"track-based midi." whatever it takes to get the workflow without breaking scripts.
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Old 09-08-2019, 12:36 PM   #97
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CC curves are back in v5.983+dev0829!

I would like to make a few more suggestions:

64-bit PPQ for high resolution:
At present, REAPER appears to store ticks as a signed 32-bit integers. (Functions such as MIDI_Get/SetAllEvts store ticks as 32-bit integers, and the maximum PPQ that can be entered in Preferences is 2^31-1.) This means that PPQ is limited to a maximum of about 32000, if 4-hour long MIDI items with fast bpm have to be accommodated.

How about storing ticks as 64-bit integers instead, and using something like 2^50 bits as default PPQ? This would give MIDI a resolution that is almost as fine as REAPER's 64-bit floating time values, would remove all problems with snapping to grid, and would make MIDI sample-accurate. Users would not need to deal with ticks and PPQs any more, except when importing and exporting MIDI.

(A few other DAWs such as Digital Performer have already taken this step.)


Position instead of offset:
In the MIDI stream (as given in the item chunk or MIDI_Get/SetAllEvts), the positions of MIDI events are stored as tick offsets relative to the previous events:
Code:
E 0 b0 01 5e
E 960 b0 01 60
E 960 b0 01 5c
E 1080 b0 01 52
E 840 b0 7b 00
In contrast, the positions of envelope points are stored as absolute time positions:
Code:
PT 0 1 0
PT 0.5 1 0
PT 1 1 0
PT 1.5 1 0 0 1
Would it not be much easier for MIDI to work with tick positions relative to the start of item, rather than with offset from previous event?
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Old 09-10-2019, 10:45 AM   #98
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Awesome!
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Old 09-16-2019, 06:41 PM   #99
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i had a little time to test the cc curves! it's fantastic

1) I wonder if this could be possible: at this moment seems like when we editing 1 envelope and drag a point horizontal it wont move vertical and then if we start drag vertical it won't move horizontal. Could drag do both: move X and y?


2) could we have an option just like we have for envelopes so that reaper "prevent mouse edits of single envelope from moving past other cc points" and have a different behaviour then this when passing an adjacent point




Thanks
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Old 09-16-2019, 08:14 PM   #100
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i had a little time to test the cc curves! it's fantastic

1) I wonder if this could be possible: at this moment seems like when we editing 1 envelope and drag a point horizontal it wont move vertical and then if we start drag vertical it won't move horizontal. Could drag do both: move X and y?


2) could we have an option just like we have for envelopes so that reaper "prevent mouse edits of single envelope from moving past other cc points" and have a different behaviour then this when passing an adjacent point


Thanks
Agree with both of these. It should feel as though we're in the Arrangement envelope lanes in every way -- points should move both X and Y and not pass one another.
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Old 09-16-2019, 08:44 PM   #101
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Agree with both of these. It should feel as though we're in the Arrangement envelope lanes in every way -- points should move both X and Y and not pass one another.
Yes, I agree with both of you. There shouldn't be much (or any?) difference working with CC envelopes and automation envelopes imo. Consistency would improve too.
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Old 09-17-2019, 03:39 AM   #102
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yep, +1 from me as well
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Old 09-17-2019, 03:48 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by deeb View Post
1) I wonder if this could be possible: at this moment seems like when we editing 1 envelope and drag a point horizontal it wont move vertical and then if we start drag vertical it won't move horizontal. Could drag do both: move X and y?
Go to Mouse Modifiers -> CC event -> Default left-drag, and UNclick "On one axis only".
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Old 09-17-2019, 03:59 AM   #104
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Quote:
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Yes, I agree with both of you. There shouldn't be much (or any?) difference working with CC envelopes and automation envelopes imo. Consistency would improve too.
except could we PLEASE not allow for this (i know about "don't move envelopes with copy," but you can still end up in this situation if you left an envelope selected):



i'll often be editing a section of my project, only to zoom out and see that i'd created a mess like this out-of-zoom due to it being in the time selection

this is another example of edge-case functionality being better supported than more fundamental, single-envelope editing, and it'd be good to head it off in midi cc envelopes
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Old 09-17-2019, 07:35 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
Go to Mouse Modifiers -> CC event -> Default left-drag, and UNclick "On one axis only".
Thank you!
Will look at it later .. would be nice if shift could bypass this option.

And other modifier to bypass the other option I asked earlier (if ever implemented): prevent mouse edits of single envelope from moving past other cc points"

Edit: some of this might be already implemented, .. will check later .. thanks

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Old 09-17-2019, 01:47 PM   #106
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Be sure to add the option to add points without moving the edit cursor. Because in other sections of mouse modifiers there is such an opportunity (media item, midi editor notes, etc.)
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Old 09-19-2019, 03:36 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by Yanick View Post
Be sure to add the option to add points without moving the edit cursor. Because in other sections of mouse modifiers there is such an opportunity (media item, midi editor notes, etc.)
yes, currently I find it is not accurate to draw a point.
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Old 09-19-2019, 02:18 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
DAWs (and most programs) should in fact be CONSISTENCY CONSISTENCY CONSISTENCY CONSISTENCY!
I can love you for saying that again and again and again
please keep it up!

I should create a +1 bot to trace your consistency related posts :P

+1 for consistency!
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Old 09-20-2019, 10:04 AM   #109
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I'd like to be have this (CCs and Envelopes)

Imagine we have several points selected.

I would like a Drag modifier that allows to expand/compress selection points values according to the drag position relative to selection (left, center, or right of selection) and the height of the drag.

Example 1: selected values are:
0, 0, 0
+ modifier and Drag up on the right side of selection (maximum height drag)
= Would Update values to 0, 64 , 127


Example 2: selected values are:
0, 0, 0
+ modifier and Drag up on the left side of selection (maximum height drag)
= Would Update values to 127, 64 , 0

Is it understandable what i mean? : )

Edit: more clear I think

Last edited by deeb; 09-21-2019 at 06:55 AM.
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Old 09-24-2019, 07:33 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deeb View Post
I'd like to be have this (CCs and Envelopes)...
i would like just to be sure my request is understandable,
schwa: do you know what i mean?
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Old 09-24-2019, 09:44 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deeb View Post
I would like a Drag modifier that allows to expand/compress selection points values according to the drag position relative to selection (left, center, or right of selection) and the height of the drag.

Example 1: selected values are:
0, 0, 0
+ modifier and Drag up on the right side of selection (maximum height drag)
= Would Update values to 0, 64 , 127
Basic straight lines such as these can be drawn using the native "Linear ramp" mouse modifier. For more complex tilting and compression, you can try my scripts (link in my sig below).

(EDIT: Of course, using CC envelopes, straight lines can also be drawn with two points and a single segment.)

Last edited by juliansader; 09-24-2019 at 10:21 AM.
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Old 09-24-2019, 04:43 PM   #112
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Thank you JS but i don't think i am talking the same thing.
I don't really want to drag a line and drawing it my self with linear ramp.

Also i have the idea that your script also does not allow editing existing values, but i have to check again.

The request is that by dragging vertically (not horizontely) , up on the right of this selected evens


would produce this result:


Another example:
applying in this events:


would produce this:


This is like apply ramp (up or down) from left to right when modifier applied on the right side.
And the benefit is that we don't have to draw anything new, but use existing points and scale / ramp them.

Cubase as this feature , .. but i have no way to make a licecap of it. Can Anyone do it?

Last edited by deeb; 09-24-2019 at 04:53 PM.
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Old 09-24-2019, 05:04 PM   #113
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Here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
For more complex tilting and compression, you can try my scripts (link in my sig below).
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Old 09-24-2019, 06:18 PM   #114
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_Stevie_: lfo tool is great, but i'd encourage you to try the process of going from here:


to here using lfotool:


Anyway! again lfo tool is great, but What i am talking is very simple and not complex and does not need a GUI. Is a drag up or down on one side of selection (or whatever way or first and last event maybe) and reaper would apply a linear ramp up or down over the existing values in a way that the more the event is near the drag side more maximize/compression is applied.

This is very controllable and predictable way of using existing envelopes and fine ramp them manually.

Last edited by deeb; 09-24-2019 at 06:27 PM.
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Old 09-24-2019, 11:57 PM   #115
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I was actually referring to the "Scripts for MIDI editing", such as:

Arch/Tilt:


or Stretch/Compress (which was recently updated to work with CC envelopes):


I tried to make the "look and feel" of these scripts very similar to REAPER's native mouse modifiers, just more advanced.
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Old 09-25-2019, 03:55 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
I was actually referring to the "Scripts for MIDI editing", such as:
Yes, me too. I never referred to the LFO tool.
deeb, you should really take the time and read thru Julian‘s thread. There’s a lot of info and pretty much
every midi / cc usage is covered there.
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Old 09-28-2019, 10:14 AM   #117
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Ok I'll probably will have to use this method (and is very welcome) still I think native modifier to linear compress/expand would be better workflow for this use case and would be enough for most of my needs.
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Old 09-28-2019, 04:33 PM   #118
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Hi!

2 questions about curves:


1) I use a B/W e-ink display (8 levels of gray). New CC curves are great! but, as you can see in att. photos, they almost invisible. Is there a way to set colors for different curve components, especially the contour of an unselected curve?

2) My midi controller (Roland FR-3XB) sends CC11 slow with noticeable steps (as on att. picture). Is there a way to record this data directly with a linear transition between points? (to transform on the fly during midi recording a curve to one of the modes, for example, Bezier or linear)
Attached Images
File Type: jpeg raw recorded CC data.JPEG (32.3 KB, 56 views)
File Type: jpg Old CC curve_.jpg (61.3 KB, 52 views)
File Type: jpg New CC curve (unselected)_.jpg (61.2 KB, 61 views)
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Old 09-30-2019, 03:11 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
CC curves are back in v5.983+dev0829!

I would like to make a few more suggestions:

64-bit PPQ for high resolution:
At present, REAPER appears to store ticks as a signed 32-bit integers. (Functions such as MIDI_Get/SetAllEvts store ticks as 32-bit integers, and the maximum PPQ that can be entered in Preferences is 2^31-1.) This means that PPQ is limited to a maximum of about 32000, if 4-hour long MIDI items with fast bpm have to be accommodated.

How about storing ticks as 64-bit integers instead, and using something like 2^50 bits as default PPQ? This would give MIDI a resolution that is almost as fine as REAPER's 64-bit floating time values, would remove all problems with snapping to grid, and would make MIDI sample-accurate. Users would not need to deal with ticks and PPQs any more, except when importing and exporting MIDI.

(A few other DAWs such as Digital Performer have already taken this step.)


Position instead of offset:
In the MIDI stream (as given in the item chunk or MIDI_Get/SetAllEvts), the positions of MIDI events are stored as tick offsets relative to the previous events:
Code:
E 0 b0 01 5e
E 960 b0 01 60
E 960 b0 01 5c
E 1080 b0 01 52
E 840 b0 7b 00
In contrast, the positions of envelope points are stored as absolute time positions:
Code:
PT 0 1 0
PT 0.5 1 0
PT 1 1 0
PT 1.5 1 0 0 1
Would it not be much easier for MIDI to work with tick positions relative to the start of item, rather than with offset from previous event?
+10000 This would be amazing
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Old 09-30-2019, 03:22 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
CC curves are back in v5.983+dev0829!

I would like to make a few more suggestions:

Position instead of offset:
In the MIDI stream (as given in the item chunk or MIDI_Get/SetAllEvts), the positions of MIDI events are stored as tick offsets relative to the previous events:
Code:
E 0 b0 01 5e
E 960 b0 01 60
E 960 b0 01 5c
E 1080 b0 01 52
E 840 b0 7b 00
In contrast, the positions of envelope points are stored as absolute time positions:
Code:
PT 0 1 0
PT 0.5 1 0
PT 1 1 0
PT 1.5 1 0 0 1
Would it not be much easier for MIDI to work with tick positions relative to the start of item, rather than with offset from previous event?
Oh yes, please, I'm constantly pulling my hair!
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