Old 01-14-2017, 05:59 PM   #201
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Oh, that's interesting! Did not notice that. Still though depends on the articulation recording implenentation whether an input JSFX will be able to catch these.
JSFX can process MIDI as strings, so it is possible to read in these notation values. I'm actually fiddling around with a JSFX that would specify a max note length for a selected articulation (i.e. staccato). I'm by no means a professional programmer (so don't take my scripts or JSFX too seriously), but I'll be happy to share the JSFX when I'm done.
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Old 01-15-2017, 12:30 AM   #202
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JSFX can process MIDI as strings, so it is possible to read in these notation values. I'm actually fiddling around with a JSFX that would specify a max note length for a selected articulation (i.e. staccato). I'm by no means a professional programmer (so don't take my scripts or JSFX too seriously), but I'll be happy to share the JSFX when I'm done.
What I actually meant is there's a lot of ways the recording of articulations can be done -- it's probably not going to be the user sending the raw MIDI in any case.

Perhaps for example keyswitches (which don't get recorded as notes, but simply converted into articulation data, like in Cubase) could be used. So then the question from the point of view of an input JSFX script is at what stage does this conversion happen.
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Old 01-15-2017, 04:32 AM   #203
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Based on the last pre with this feature, the keyswitch is introduced before the track FX (presumably before the item FX as well, but I haven't tested). The articulation map is added in the MIDI Editor.

That being said, JSFX that manipulate MIDI would also manipulate a keyswitch generated by the articulation mapper.

Conversely, it would be interesting if one could add a staccato marking simply by playing the corresponding keyswitch during the record process, but I don't know how that would work.
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Old 01-15-2017, 06:38 AM   #204
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Based on the last pre with this feature, the keyswitch is introduced before the track FX (presumably before the item FX as well, but I haven't tested). The articulation map is added in the MIDI Editor.

That being said, JSFX that manipulate MIDI would also manipulate a keyswitch generated by the articulation mapper.

Conversely, it would be interesting if one could add a staccato marking simply by playing the corresponding keyswitch during the record process, but I don't know how that would work.
Actually I mean articulation switching while you're playing the MIDI live into REAPER. As far as I can tell, articulations aren't supported yet for live playing, so how that works is a completely open question.
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Old 01-15-2017, 06:46 AM   #205
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I'm really hoping that the final system Schwa comes up with will mean that the same articulation parameters being converted for output also get "caught" on input and recorded down as articulation parameters too so that the user never has to do any converting.

This feels like quite a crucial part of making this a fully functioning system to me
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Old 01-25-2017, 02:45 AM   #206
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Oh man.. I've been reading the whole thread a few times today. I cannot believe this is finally happening!.. Reaper is like falling in love over and over again with the same wife.. Surreal, I know hahaha
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Old 01-25-2017, 07:18 AM   #207
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I also would like to put a plug in before things get too finalized...

I would love to see an articulation management interface that would be accessible from the track arranging view (perhaps a toolbar) that based on selected track would show the list of articulations available as well as how they are mapped. Essentially, this would prevent having to dive into the midi editor to edit articulations and would allow working with articulation from the arrange view with mouse and/or midi keyboard (wherever my hand may be at the moment).

Do with this what you will!

Thanks,
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Old 01-28-2017, 03:14 AM   #208
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Default Help !!!! I'm Lost

Hello everybody !

I'm lost ! I've read all this thread. I think I've understood everything except one thing or two small things.

1 - How do I load articulation maps ?
2 - Where do I put my .ReaperArticMap files?...

I couldn't find them. I'ml running Reaper 5.32 64bits and Win 10 64bits.
Thx
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Old 01-28-2017, 03:47 AM   #209
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Lebegginer.

I think it's worth waiting a week or so as Schwa mentioned he was redoing them and I'm guessing the changes will probably break anything you do in the older version.

Give it a week
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Old 01-28-2017, 12:39 PM   #210
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I couldn't find them.
Because it has been removed from 5.32.
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Old 01-29-2017, 03:45 AM   #211
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And which version have it? I downloaded PreRelease 33 and cant find how to use it, and where it is. I want test this articulation maps
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Old 01-29-2017, 03:49 AM   #212
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Don't test them because things will very likely change when they get reintroduced.
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Old 01-29-2017, 07:49 AM   #213
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Thanks for info.

I don't know if this is right place for feature request Artic.Maps, my request is:
1. Possible assign in to dynamics more then one CC and velocity on same time. - That means I can assign CC1, velocity and expression for dynamics and each will have different values.
2. Possible change rules inside one staff during playback.
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Old 02-12-2017, 06:51 AM   #214
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I don't know if this is possible but it would be great if it was possible to assign a specific note length to a default articulation/key switch and it got automatically written to the score and then this could be changed by note to note basis and the specific articulation type could be selected afterwards.

For example: a possibility to assign all 16th notes to staccato and then you to override this by selecting an other type of shorts in the score.

(Just brainstorming while hoping the articulation mapping feature returns)
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Old 02-17-2017, 02:41 AM   #215
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I created my requests, and if you have some own, you can add it in my topic
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...67#post1803567
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Old 02-27-2017, 05:15 PM   #216
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I am really happy to see this happening. Waiting anxiously...
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Old 02-27-2017, 11:13 PM   #217
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Jonathan in his "OTR" videos seems to claim that he decently solved any such issues for Reaper Orchestral workers by his Reaper extension (in fact I don't have any experience with Orchestral work / Midi composing or OTR myself).

Any comment ?

-Michael
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Old 02-28-2017, 12:06 AM   #218
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Jonathan in his "OTR" videos seems to claim that he decently solved any such issues for Reaper Orchestral workers by his Reaper extension (in fact I don't have any experience with Orchestral work / Midi composing or OTR myself).

Any comment ?

-Michael
May be Jonathan himself or those who bought OTR would like to comment but here Stephane also created a Track Inspector which has the ability of articulation management as well. http://sfer.online.free.fr/
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=183669
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Old 02-28-2017, 12:56 AM   #219
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Stephane also created a Track Inspector which has the ability of articulation management as well. http://sfer.online.free.fr/
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=183669
Wow, I had missed this before, that's actually seriously impressive!
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Old 02-28-2017, 02:18 AM   #220
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Indeed!
But native solution IS native. I am really looking forward to it.
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Old 02-28-2017, 03:44 AM   #221
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I posted this a while back in a different thread but after reading this one here, and seeing things like the nice notation toolbar stuff here
http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...3&postcount=10

Maybe someone smarter than me can make this happen or word it better I think it has promise, in the future for Reaper. It's not a feature request per se, but I would like to know how this can be used with the articulation mapper? I think it could escalate the mapper for future power.
=====
I've really been spending a lot of time on the notation editor recently and I have a question if something is currently possible please.

It's probably easier if I phrase this in two parts.

1)
First, is it possible (either by script or native to notation editor) to automatically insert dynamic markings according to the velocity of a note? For example, if I play in a C major scale in real-time, stop the recording, and go to the notation editor, can I run a script and have dynamic markings appear under note(s) like mp, mf, ff, etc. according to a velocity of each note or range?

This is absolutely huge if possible, sure it'd be overkill for a printed final draft (to have dozens of mp or mf) but for a lot of us it'd allow us to eyeball at a glance the overall score and see elements clearer and faster than manually assigning as needed. Then, we just can write one mf as needed for a section. This idea would be just to quickly see the overall dynamic structure of a score. Not for final printout.

If this is not native, could a script be written?

1.5)
\\ script idea
Basically, if a note has a velocity between X and Y, put an mp marking attached to it, etc. repeat for all notes in a selected area of run script.


\\


I think this would be an outstanding addition. I just wanted to get the ball rolling.

2)
\\ if this is not possible at least is this? \\

Second part of question is, how can I assign a custom action to at least fast-input dynamic markings in certain areas depending on velocity?
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Old 02-28-2017, 04:06 AM   #222
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Wow, I had missed this before, that's actually seriously impressive!
Whoa sweet!!!
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Old 02-28-2017, 07:43 AM   #223
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Jonathan in his "OTR" videos seems to claim that he decently solved any such issues for Reaper Orchestral workers by his Reaper extension (in fact I don't have any experience with Orchestral work / Midi composing or OTR myself).

Any comment ?

-Michael
For articulations OTR uses a free Reaper extension, BRSO by Blake Robinson:

http://www.syntheticorchestra.com/articulatereaper/

You can compare the video tutorials in the OTR and the BRSO web sites and you will see that there is no differences or extra functionality in OTR, except some customization.

So, to my knowledge, there are only two solutions for articulation maps in reaper: BRSO and the Track Inspector by Stephane (don't confuse it with Track Inspector VIP by Heda!!)

http://sfer.online.free.fr/

I have used both and, in my opinion, Stephan's track inspector is easier to use. It is much easier to edit articulations with TI because the articulations appear as midi events and not as notes. Anyway, I recomend to try both before we have native support for articulations in reaper.

j
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Old 02-28-2017, 07:47 AM   #224
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Jonathan in his "OTR" videos seems to claim that he decently solved any such issues for Reaper Orchestral workers by his Reaper extension (in fact I don't have any experience with Orchestral work / Midi composing or OTR myself).

Any comment ?

-Michael
Just for clarity, OTR uses a pre-configured version of Blake Robinson's Synthetic Orchestra plugin as a temporary stay until Reaper's native solution is implemented.

Using OTR's implementation of Blake's Synthetic Orchestra - Articulate Reaper plugin is demonstrated in the third part of the OTR midi video series.

https://youtu.be/pUO6n3t1Sqc

It works really well!
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Old 02-28-2017, 05:45 PM   #225
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I've been testing Schwa's native demos version a few pre-releases back too which seems to be a lot easier on the system (I get some lag and hang and menus disappearing from something I suspect is some sort scripting conflict sometimes with Articulate & Inspector)

But Stephane & Blake both made really amazing scripts! Stephane's Inspector blends in like it's a native part of the system and once set up it's real easy to use. It's strange that something that seems like such an basic functionality for any midi DAW wasn't there from the beginning.

If all the goodies could merge into a native solution where some sort of automatic articulation & dynamics detection that was mentioned before also was included i'd be in heaven.

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Old 02-28-2017, 10:54 PM   #226
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... seems like such an basic functionality for any midi DAW ...
As always and again, its necessary to state that "basic functionality" is strictly matter of the point of view, and happily Reaper is not like "any DAW". And of course we are happy that the Reaper DEVs (unlike most other DAWs') care to watch the users' wishes and thrive for improvement (native, if necessary, via API and allowing for 3rd party extensions, if appropriate).

Reaper Rocks !
-Michael
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Old 03-01-2017, 11:34 AM   #227
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As always and again, its necessary to state that "basic functionality" is strictly matter of the point of view, and happily Reaper is not like "any DAW". And of course we are happy that the Reaper DEVs (unlike most other DAWs') care to watch the users' wishes and thrive for improvement (native, if necessary, via API and allowing for 3rd party extensions, if appropriate).

Reaper Rocks !
-Michael
I just meant that switching between different articulations is a somewhat rudimentary part of playing an instrument and even Steinberg was pretty late coming up with the expression maps, so it wasn't aimed at Reaper or any other DAW in particular.

From what I understand the VST standard was introduced around 1999 Cubase expression maps didn't appear until 2009 and here we are in 2017..

I love Reaper and have a ton of respect for the dev's and with the help of Articulate and Inspector Im already pretty much covered.

It would just be cool if there was a integrated more stable solution is all Im saying.

Peace?
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Old 03-16-2017, 05:25 AM   #228
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What's the current status of this brilliant feature?
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Old 03-16-2017, 06:16 AM   #229
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Cooking on backburner. Automation items are the focus now.
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Old 03-16-2017, 06:44 AM   #230
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Cooking on backburner. Automation items are the focus now.
Fair enough, I hope Schwa is getting a lot of pizza
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Old 04-01-2017, 09:07 AM   #231
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Disappointing to see that this has stalled for the new whim of the day. I hope that it picks up again after Justin et al get bored of automation items, rather than moving onto something entirely new and shiny.
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Old 04-01-2017, 09:17 AM   #232
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Disappointing to see that this has stalled for the new whim of the day. I hope that it picks up again after Justin et al get bored of automation items, rather than moving onto something entirely new and shiny.
Me too!!!!
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Old 04-01-2017, 10:49 AM   #233
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Disappointing to see that this has stalled for the new whim of the day. I hope that it picks up again after Justin et al get bored of automation items, rather than moving onto something entirely new and shiny.
It's mostly a Schwa feature anyway so he's probably tucked away doing that now that AI is getting there etc. Also, Schwa did said a while a go (something like..) he is reworking it all based on user feedback etc so that it's more future proofed and just overall better UI wise etc so it is coming back and will most likely be worth the wait too hang in there!
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Old 04-01-2017, 02:32 PM   #234
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he is reworking it all based on user feedback etc so that it's more future proofed and just overall better UI wise etc
Probably it's difficult to give user feedback without being able to, err, actually use a feature. ;-)
Thus, @Schwa please publish what you've achieved so far.
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Old 04-01-2017, 02:44 PM   #235
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Probably it's difficult to give user feedback without being able to, err, actually use a feature. ;-)
Thus, @Schwa please publish what you've achieved so far.
The feature was available for quite some time a while ago so I'm guessing he's basing it on the feedback from back then
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Old 04-01-2017, 07:55 PM   #236
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The feature was available for quite some time a while ago so I'm guessing he's basing it on the feedback from back then
This. I think Schwa got enough feedback to get going, and he noted somewhere (maybe this thread?) that it would be under construction for several releases before it even made it back into a pre. I hope we don't have to wait too much longer before we can start testing again.
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Old 04-02-2017, 01:19 AM   #237
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Me too. AIs have had a ton of great bug testing and feedback. If interested parties could do the same thing with AM it could be one of the best systems around.

The big question as far as I can see is whether it will create the articulations on the fly from played MIDI or not.

Currently (meaning the last pre) articulation map works by creating ephemeral MIDI events during playback. These get sent to the VSTi along with any other manually sequenced CC etc. They are not explicitly written into the file as MIDI events. So it's just a one-way process iiuc.

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Old 04-10-2017, 06:54 PM   #238
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It's mostly a Schwa feature anyway so he's probably tucked away doing that now that AI is getting there etc. Also, Schwa did said a while a go (something like..) he is reworking it all based on user feedback etc so that it's more future proofed and just overall better UI wise etc so it is coming back and will most likely be worth the wait too hang in there!
That's good, and I would like to express my opinion here as well.

I don't think the CC lanes will work for this at all, unless there's something really fancy about it.

I have instruments that require up to 12 or more keyswitchs, although around 4 keyswitches is a more normal number.

Also, it's not only the keyswitches themselves, many instruments use the keyswtich velocity as well. I've heard some even use note off velocity as well, but I've not seen that.

Without knowing how the CC lane thingy would be put together, I think either separate keyswtich lanes, or a split piano roll would be best. Unless there's another idea out there.

Here's something else I thought might be of interest, this is an idea that hopi came up with. Using 2 midi editors at the same time, one with the keyswitchs along with a few CC lanes, and the other with all the notes and other CC lanes that change a lot.

I haven't used this on a real project yet, but I will soon.

This is a shot of the midi I have for a violin string section. I've got the instrument patch set up so I can record up to 4 separate legato lines, each with their own set of controllers. In other words I can have up to 4 legato lines, each with their own "mod wheel crossfader CC1 to CC4" and "expression CC11 to CC14". You can see I show that in the note names.



You can see the keyswitches, and the text CC lane for the chords, as well as the velocity lane in the lower editor.
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Old 04-10-2017, 07:15 PM   #239
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I don't think the CC lanes will work for this at all, unless there's something really fancy about it.

I have instruments that require up to 12 or more keyswitchs, although around 4 keyswitches is a more normal number.
How would a piano roll style view scale to instruments with 50+ articulations?

The actual implementation (in the pre releases anyway) looked more like the program change lane, which would scale to arbitrarily many articulations.
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Old 04-10-2017, 07:23 PM   #240
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Also, it's not only the keyswitches themselves, many instruments use the keyswtich velocity as well. I've heard some even use note off velocity as well, but I've not seen that.
Besides keyswitches, libraries also use different channels, different CC values, and who knows what else.

Quote:
Without knowing how the CC lane thingy would be put together, I think either separate keyswtich lanes, or a split piano roll would be best. Unless there's another idea out there.
I don't think this idea would work for the articulation mapper for two reasons.

1. As I noted, there are other MIDI events besides keyswitches that manipulate articulations. Having a separate lane for keyswitches, while nice, wouldn't give a complete picture.

2. I think it better as done originally to have the mapping utility (whatever it ends up being) interpret the articulations into MIDI on the fly instead of inserting MIDI events into the actual MIDI item.

Quote:
Here's something else I thought might be of interest, this is an idea that hopi came up with. Using 2 midi editors at the same time, one with the keyswitchs along with a few CC lanes, and the other with all the notes and other CC lanes that change a lot.
I think this is a great idea, but I think it shouldn't really have much to do with the articulation mapper.

What would make more sense (to me anyway) would be special marker/region style GUI items. Note, I'm not suggesting adding markers or regions, but I'm suggesting mimicking the GUI style in the MIDI editor. Something like, a track articulation (something that is in effect until it is explicitly cancelled or changed such as "with mute") would look like a region while a one time per note (like staccato) would look like a marker.

Perhaps an option to add a label with the corresponding MIDI message would be helpful. So, for example, if my muted strings are triggered by keyswitch at C1 (note 12) there would be a region-like element that is labeled "mutes" and another label "KS 12" or something similar).

EDIT: To be fair, I liked the way the articulation mapping was represented in the CC lane originally.

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