Old 10-20-2019, 07:29 PM   #1
Fergler
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Default Paid update to Super8

I am really pushing against the limits of super8 and looking for a better looper... but sadly, I haven't found the answer.

Mobius doesn't work on any of my systems either, and I'd run into similar limitations anyway.

I would like to have the following added to super8, ranked in importance:

1. More channels, or ability to sync up multiple instances of Super8 to function in tandem (I think this is an easier short term approach though I'm no coder).
2. *2 or /2 buttons for the click count (with MIDI assignment)
3. Automatically set a reasonable frequency (e.g. click count is currently 8, but I play a 20 second long loop, automatically set to 32 clicks). This would be an on/off feature.
4. Text box selection of MIDI # for the various parameters, instead of right click drag. Optionally: MIDI Learn by right click or something.
5. Ensure loops start and end on zero-crossings
6. MIDI assignment for Latch on/off

Extra but more intensive features:
7. Bonus points if you can create the ability to switch a channel to MIDI input (and choose channel), where MIDI passes through Super8 and is also recorded to buffer where it is set out on the same channel it came in on for routing to a track.
8. Exxxxxtra bonus points ($$) if overdubbing works by creating additional audio on the end of a buffer and playing that overtop, instead of writing onto the existing buffer. Once put into project, these would be shown as take lanes with 'play all takes' turned on for the item. (this is my conception of the easiest way to code this as a tack-on, but maybe just using an available additional buffer channel is an easier approach. But I just wanted to put my thoughts down).

Pay: $200/6 US for features 1-6 and $100 US each for the extra features sound reasonable? This way maybe multiple coders can take on the project if it's a lot to ask of one. If so, I would ask that you make your code revisions available on a github or something.


Obviously, anyone interested in doing this out of the goodness of your heart / updating this great tool for the community would be appreciated, but at this point I'd really like this done for personal projects so I'm putting my money on the line.

Note that it is fully intended either way, payment or not, that the tool makes its way into everyones hands, maybe in a future official Reaper update.
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Last edited by Fergler; 10-22-2019 at 08:43 PM.
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Old 10-21-2019, 05:42 AM   #2
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Regarding more channels, are not all synced to Reapers metronome, thus why not loading a new super8 on a new track? But never tested super8 much, as I made a request once for a 16 stereo channel version. First 8 stereo channels, then 16 stereo channels, why not? Because it is Reaper. I was imagining playing around with synths, then creating loops, without losing information, meaning stereo field. Also with hardware synths, this method can be powerful and fun.

Btw, in case noone heard of it yet, any mono synth can get a poly synth, via a pure data based vst, free, see https://github.com/MikeMorenoAudio/M2P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7d3IagGN50E
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Old 10-21-2019, 10:42 PM   #3
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Super8 sets millisecond-accurate loop length based on the first loop you make. Works great, but these do not sync up across instances. I'd like to for example have one Super8 per bank of my FCB1010, so I can have 5 separate percussion loops layered over 1 bass and 1 synth bass loop and 4 guitar loops and 10 trombone loops etc etc.
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Old 10-22-2019, 07:46 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonE View Post
...
Btw, in case noone heard of it yet, any mono synth can get a poly synth, via a pure data based vst, free, see https://github.com/MikeMorenoAudio/M2P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7d3IagGN50E
Interesting, but does not work.
camomile can't find the configuration file "....\EP-MK1.txt"
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Old 10-23-2019, 03:16 AM   #5
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Well, I hope you find someone to do that.. While reading your request, I thought of some workaround leads to be explored if you wish.


1. More channels, or ability to sync up multiple instances of Super8 to function in tandem.
I think that using some midi transformations might do what you want. (eg : duplicating trigger record/play notes and sending to differents Super8 instances).


2. *2 or /2 buttons for the click count (with MIDI assignment)

Maybe using megababy sequencer to trigger rec/play could help. You could switch megababy's sequence with 1/1 length sequence to 2/1 or 1/2...


All the best
V
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Old 10-23-2019, 02:12 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Regisfofo View Post
Well, I hope you find someone to do that.. While reading your request, I thought of some workaround leads to be explored if you wish.


1. More channels, or ability to sync up multiple instances of Super8 to function in tandem.
I think that using some midi transformations might do what you want. (eg : duplicating trigger record/play notes and sending to differents Super8 instances).


2. *2 or /2 buttons for the click count (with MIDI assignment)

Maybe using megababy sequencer to trigger rec/play could help. You could switch megababy's sequence with 1/1 length sequence to 2/1 or 1/2...


All the best
V
Excellent idea, yes I could use 1 channel from every instance of Super8 to link them up. Thank you for your thought!

As for how to use megababy, could you elaborate? It would have to match Super8's loop length somehow. I haven't used it much and am not at the Reaper computer right now to test.

Thanks
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Old 10-23-2019, 02:16 PM   #7
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You can force a loop length with some audio/clicks and midi trigger notes etc set on a specific track that you activate feeding into first empty slot.
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Old 10-23-2019, 02:55 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by BenK-msx View Post
You can force a loop length with some audio/clicks and midi trigger notes etc set on a specific track that you activate feeding into first empty slot.
Is not the first loop length very important, so it should not be a click track?
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Old 10-23-2019, 03:41 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenK-msx View Post
... and midi trigger notes etc set on a specific track that you activate feeding into first empty slot.
And from then on you would use mouse clicking? The triggering midi notes should be each different or how to solve this problem?


I just tried folderify.lua on 8 sequential Super8, sending from a childest track note 36, so all Super8's are toggling between rec and play, how to continue for recording the actual loops? At least they are all synced now, so it is easy if you use predefined lengths, but how to do it without predefining the length? see https://github.com/michaelsjackson/r...orums/issues/3

Easiest would be if Super8 could have a setting for accepting input triggering midi notes only from a single midi channel, then using this parameter we could get 16 Super8 in parallel very easily. Different midi channel would mean another Super8.

Last edited by TonE; 10-23-2019 at 03:57 PM.
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Old 10-23-2019, 04:26 PM   #10
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Well you can set distinct pattern in megababy witch would trigger Super8. You can set the change of pattern by hitting a midi note so it changes at first beat of current pattern.
So It might be possible to record first loop of 1 bar length with metronome in headphone. (you set in megababy a 2 bar pattern with record note at first beat, and play note at the begining of second bar)
and next hit the pattern switch note witch will trigger record a 4 bar loop on another super8 instance, starting from next bar...


If the process of your song don't change too much with each performance, you can even do that without megababy. Write the triggering notes on the grid on a midi item and just play it to your super8s. (same idea as BenK-msx)


Maybe Another idea using megababy would be to quantize the input of switching pattern notes at 1 bar, so you'll only have to use a one distinct pattern for each message you'll want to send to Super8 instances.


Finally You could investigate if some dedicated looper software such as logeloop could cover your need, and if not try to use it in conjonction with reaper using rearoute and maybe some midi virtual cable soft.

Last edited by Regisfofo; 10-23-2019 at 04:32 PM.
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Old 10-23-2019, 04:29 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonE View Post
Is not the first loop length very important, so it should not be a click track?
tricky to recall offhand but i've generated loops i think using midi notes on a track and some low level audio to trigger a set loop length synced to reaper from the get-go.

once set you can move on to shoving 'real' audio into slots
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Old 10-24-2019, 10:48 AM   #12
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I'm not sure I'm following the discussion as I'm not doing anything with the arrange window or preexisting loops like it sounds like some of you are.

Love the discussion I'm just a bit lost as to where megababy etc fits into this.

For now, my biggest issue is fixed as I've got 6 Super8s all linked up thru channel 8 on each one having the same MIDI triggers and unique triggers for all the rest.

Haven't set it up fully yet but this means on my FCB1010 I have bank 00 set to record a little of everything, but bank 1 is drums and percussion, bank 2 is bass and synth bass, bank 3 and 4 5x keyboards and 10x patch switches (YES finally from my FCB!), bank 5 3x guitar and 4x guitar patches, and lastly bank 6 for vocals.

The halve, kill, double, etc are all linked too.

This still leaves the click problem which I may solve as so, thinking out loud:

WIth click track off, use channel 8 to record one beats length and send a click sound, then use other MIDI sends from the FCB to send multiple MIDI commands at once telling it to double the length x times. So for a 4 bar loop, I would hit say 01 on my FCB in Bank 9, then hit 05 to end the loop and simultaneously send 'Double' four times. 1x2x2x2x2 = 16 so I'd get a 4 bar loop.

Pretty flexible I guess and I could have halve/double on the same bank so I could quickly fix a mistake in length.

Having a click is pretty important for this project so the drummer doesn't have to record first every time (or record at all). Really hard to play to rhythmically minimalist parts especially live.

The coding requests still stand though everyone but the channel increase has dropped in priority quite a bit. But for the community, I still think it would be an improvement to add for ease of use.

Also thank you looking into Logelloop.
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Old 10-24-2019, 02:02 PM   #13
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Can anyone active in this discussion post also a screenshot or .rpp file, just to see what is done there, just by reading not sure if I can follow, maybe all those are trivial stuff, but when reading it sounds complicated, for example.

Is now the problem of multiple super8 synced solved? If yes, how? Screenshot, .rpp, I would like to test it, and this would mean, we can have also Super8000 just to go higher than Samplomatic5000.

If predefined loop lengths are used, like 4 bars, for example, than it is not a strict looper use case I thought. Plus what about tempo changes during playing, are those also forbidden, for the above use cases?

My understanding would be, you should be allowed to play in any tempo, including tempo changes, in any length for the first loop, the next you have to adjust to that of course yourself, just by listening.
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Old 10-24-2019, 02:04 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergler View Post
Love the discussion I'm just a bit lost as to where megababy etc fits into this.
Not only you.
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Old 10-24-2019, 02:22 PM   #15
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There is also something called "MIDI controller for Super8 looper"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFwtxXYLkZI
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Old 10-24-2019, 04:28 PM   #16
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Agree that any setups would be nice to share seeing as that's easy to do and could lead to tweaks.
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Old 10-24-2019, 06:07 PM   #17
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I will share mine when I am finished setting up the MIDI inputs for Super8 (which would be faster if I could just edit text boxes )
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Old 10-25-2019, 08:37 AM   #18
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Here we go !
I'm triggering both super8 with megababy just playing 4 distinct notes on my midi keyboard.





It was a real PITA to figure out but I finally got it to work nicely...
Beware, it needs some more testing, and as it is there are some drawbacks :
- It will effectively send messages to super8s only if they are played in the second half of a bar. (To get megababy to reset to the "no message to super8" sequence without having to hit a key, It duplicates each pattern switching note, map it to the "no message to super8" pattern note, and delay it by half a bar ).
- It's not that simple to trigger two recordings at a time ( it will need a dedicated pattern)
- It can give headaches...

There are probably smarters ways to do all that, but at least it's a starting point...
I think It could be easily extended to more super8 instances/channels.

2Super8SyncedMegababy.zip
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Old 10-25-2019, 06:28 PM   #19
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I'm all for development of Super8, also just as an fyi in case some are not aware of these lesser known currently supported loopers. I haven't tried them out yet though.

Standalone/DAW $:
https://www.logelloop.com/
https://www.liveloop.live/

Free addon with Usine $:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/NOundo/
(sorry don't know of a central nonfb link)

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Old 10-26-2019, 06:28 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Regisfofo View Post
Here we go !
I'm triggering both super8 with megababy just playing 4 distinct notes on my midi keyboard.
At least from your example I can see, just from that image, you have different triggering notes. Is this a must for all users here? Just to know the requirements first?

If I would have 8 * super8 in parallel, each super8 requiring 16 notes, I would need then all together 128 non-overlapping notes, to be managed, somehow. We could stick to 8 parallel super8 to stay within the limits of 0..127 notes, which would fit nicely into a single midi channel.
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Old 10-26-2019, 07:17 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonE View Post
If I would have 8 * super8 in parallel, each super8 requiring 16 notes, I would need then all together 128 non-overlapping notes, to be managed, somehow. We could stick to 8 parallel super8 to stay within the limits of 0..127 notes, which would fit nicely into a single midi channel.
Well megababy is limited to 16 distinct patterns so it leaves only 8 Super8 channels with records and play controls. Maybe we could double that with the dedicated midi controller JSFX you posted about (If I understood it correctly...).
I'm sure we could scatter those channels among all the distinct Super8 instances we want to have, just by switching the super8s box note controls (the one we change by right dragging... hope you follow me)

All the more, Megababy's Nandy's mod have 96 patterns so, with that one limitation will be number of displayed notes (height of its piano roll), wich seems to be limited to 49... We may run out of RealTimeCpu before running out of channels (who needs more than 24 live loops ?)

What would be great is to have a dedicated "switching back to do nothing" pattern JSFX, I'm no programmer but I think it could be very simple.
For each incomming controller note played, it should
- let pass the original note, (so Megababy send Super8 a command note )
- duplicate it,
- map the duplicated note to a desired note ( the one who switch megababy to the"do nothing" pattern),
- then play it just after first beat of next bar (So just after the original note would have been sent to super8)

Another thing really interesting I just discovered. We can get rid of the metronome !!! In Super8, just set the first recording channel play button on same note as the Add to project box. Then you can unmute your prerecorded midi drum track, and it's playing in sync with your loop!!! Now I'm pretty excited!!
(Of course that one can not be sent with megababy as we want to change the grid, not sync to it...)

Last edited by Regisfofo; 10-26-2019 at 07:36 AM.
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Old 10-26-2019, 07:28 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonE View Post
At least from your example I can see, just from that image, you have different triggering notes. Is this a must for all users here? Just to know the requirements first?
Principle is 1 megababy pattern per distinct message I want to send to Super8.
In other words, I let megababy play the super8 trigering notes, so it sync them to the bar.

I'm going to create a dedicated thread in the live subsection of the forum...
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Old 10-26-2019, 07:40 AM   #23
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I would do it without any megababy, why using it at all? I gave an example you can just create a child track and put the note there. In front of each Super8 there can be a 16 note shift, so first Super8 would get triggering midi note=0, next 0+1*16, next 0+2*16 and so on.

16 notes shift, quickly edited a script from X-Raym, making 16 from 12.
PHP Code:
desc:MIDI Notes 16 Notes Transpose Shift

slider1
:0<0,16,1{Any,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16}>Input Channel

slider5
:0<-8,8,1>16 Notes Shift


////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
@init
statNoteOn 
$x90;
statNoteOff $x80;
afterTouch $xA0;


////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
@slider
inChannel 
slider1 1;

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
@block

while
(

  
midirecv(offset,msg1,note,vel) ?
  (

    
// Extract message type and channel
    
status msg1 $xF0;
    
channel msg1 $x0F;

    
// Is it on our channel?
    
channel == inChannel || inChannel == -?
    (
      
      
// Is it a note event?
      
status == statNoteOn || status == statNoteOff || status == afterTouch ?
      (
        
        
          
slider5 != ? (
            
note max(0,min(127,note slider5*16)); // Get Note Out
          
);

     
      );
    
    );
    
    
midisend(offsetmsg1notevel);
    
    
1// Force loop to continue until all messages have been processed
  
  
);

); 
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Old 10-26-2019, 08:05 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonE View Post
I would do it without any megababy, why using it at all? I gave an example you can just create a child track and put the note there.
If I understand you correctly you're talking about a midi item wich will command super8 when played by reaper. And yes sure, I understand it can do sync with how many super8/channels we need, no megababy needed etc...
What I'm talking about is a little different workflow, where you just improvise when you want to trigger record and the length of it. Like we do with hardware loopers. How would you do that ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonE View Post
In front of each Super8 there can be a 16 note shift, so first Super8 would get triggering midi note=0, next 0+1*16, next 0+2*16 and so on.
I don't get your point, how do you use the shifting ?

Last edited by Regisfofo; 10-26-2019 at 08:25 AM.
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Old 10-26-2019, 05:53 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergler View Post
1. More channels, or ability to sync up multiple instances of Super8 to function in tandem (I think this is an easier short term approach though I'm no coder).
2. *2 or /2 buttons for the click count (with MIDI assignment)
...
6. MIDI assignment for Latch on/off
I think I got those 3 covered...
https://imgur.com/d3TJMZS
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Old 10-28-2019, 03:31 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Regisfofo View Post
I think I got those 3 covered...
https://imgur.com/d3TJMZS
That is predetermined tempo?
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Old 10-28-2019, 10:52 PM   #27
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Yes it is in that one. But it can easyly be modded to follow a given first loop tempo. I'm working on a track template with simple to use input quantize on/off. I'll post it soon.
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Old 10-29-2019, 11:20 AM   #28
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I guess only the first recording inside Super8 seems to be important, as someone else mentioned in this forum, or was it in a youtube video, anyway, after Super8 has auto-determined the bpm of the first recording, you can place it on arrange and the rest you could do using other looping techniques directly on the arrange, via various useful customized actions, which do the job.

Or why is still Super8 necessary, after having recorded this first track? Then you would have your bpm set? The only argument would be, those loops should all have different lengths. For same length recordings, there is no argument any more to continue using Super8, I guess. Is this correct so far, any Super8/looping experts?
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Old 10-31-2019, 01:51 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonE View Post
I guess only the first recording inside Super8 seems to be important, as someone else mentioned in this forum, or was it in a youtube video, anyway, after Super8 has auto-determined the bpm of the first recording, you can place it on arrange and the rest you could do using other looping techniques directly on the arrange, via various useful customized actions, which do the job.

Or why is still Super8 necessary, after having recorded this first track? Then you would have your bpm set? The only argument would be, those loops should all have different lengths. For same length recordings, there is no argument any more to continue using Super8, I guess. Is this correct so far, any Super8/looping experts?
I've seen some attempts to do that :
https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/loop-recorder
There's Kenny's way too :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lX9tv-h_stM

Seems to me they can be nice worflows for experimenting/composing but not really to do live playing...
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Old 10-31-2019, 02:27 AM   #30
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After some refining, here is my template.
It will sync several Super8 instances so all their control can be triggered at the begining of the next bar.
The idea behind it is :
- To pick your super8 input notes,
- Optionaly transpose them so instead of triggering Super8s directly, they trigger a change in Megababy sequences. Later Megababy will trigger the Super8s at the begining of next bar.
- Duplicate resulting notes among desired channels so they go to desired Super8 Instances

I got rid of the delay problem using baby sequencer V2. It is set on a hidden track to reset Megababy's instances to the wait sequence each second 1/8 note of the bar. So Super8 latch notes won't be send to Super8s if you trigger them between First beat and second 1/8 note of the bar.

You'll need
- ThrashJazzAssassin's awesome MIDI Performer2 JSFX, to dispatch to distinct super8
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=216034
- Megababy Nandy's mod, wich allows more note display than original Megababy
https://stash.reaper.fm/v/20869/seq%20megababy%20nm
Be sure to Install all the provided Data files in your Reapers correspondant Data directory.

Link your controller to tracks controls from the first track 'midi input' : Latch,Send1,Send2,Send3,Send4
(I used CC toggle on my XTouch Mini, learned in absolute mode)

To map super 8 controls you can follow the MIDINoteNames file I provided. Just use the 1 to 37 notes.
There is a Bar control track control. Set it to follow your project bar length.
There is a rate control set to 1. Change it to 2 if you need loops half short than your bar's length.
Reaper need to be in play state for quantized triggering notes to be send effectively.
Then you can route audio to your Super8 tracks as you wish and rock on...

If you need more Super8 instances, just duplicate super8 tracks, But you'll need to duplicate the midi dispatch JSFX too. Then map his midi channels outs to your new tracks sends midi channel.

Hope this is enough informations for setting it up, and someone find it useful!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/s7mvyycm39...ooper.zip?dl=0

Last edited by Regisfofo; 10-31-2019 at 04:41 AM.
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Old 10-31-2019, 08:21 PM   #31
Fergler
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This is all great stuff. Still looking for coders though. Anyone up for it?
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Old 11-04-2019, 12:11 PM   #32
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Regisfofo, did not test anything yet, also not soon, but thanks for your sharing.

Fergler, can you describe your targeted use case scenario in a few sentences? It seems, only getting first recording from Super8, then continuing inside Reaper seems not to be enough for you?
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