Unstuck!

[pauldude]

Server is running, so what I'm asking now is - what can one do with it? What does it do? Does it have exactly the same functionality as the reaNinjam VST in Reaper?

I've spent all night getting it running, although I couldn't manage to get any information on what it actally is and exactly does .

Something to do with jamming, I suspect.

[pljones]

The server has the same functionality as the public servers (bar any bots being run).

[pauldude]

Thanks for that. I'll go into "bots" later .

The final problem is that I gave my jamming partner my IP and port info (in fact I did it myself with ShowMyPC), but his log in failed.

I'm wondering if that could be because ShowmyPC is running.

I don't have a clue other than that suspicion. Any ideas, please?

[pljones]

If you've any kind of firewall, you'll need to configure it to allow access on the port(s) you've specified.

[pauldude]

Thanks! I'll check that out and report back.

[pauldude]

Reporting back....

Both my jamming partner and myself can connect to the other servers in the Ninjam window in Reaper, and we can hear what they are playing and hear each other and send a text chat. But he cannot connect to my server. So it seems the firewall is not an issue. I went into XP anyway and opened port 2049 for Reaper.

So - ever nearer, and yet so far away! Maybe I've missed something.

Any help most appreciated.

[pauldude]

The problem with the Cockos documentation is that it assumes knowledge of the language of web technology, which I don't really want to study.

Therefore, the very first sentence in the server setup guide leaves me confused:

"To set up a NINJAM server, first find a host that has an abundance of outbound bandwidth."

I don't know what this means. What is a "host" in this context? I got the idea that I might need an account with no-ip.com or freedns.afraid.org, so I created accounts with both. What the next step would be I've no idea. These websites also fail to address the needs of the novice....it's all very techy.

[pauldude]

I've seen servers in reaNinjam with names like "muckl.dyndns.org:2049". So I just got a 14-day free trial of dyndns with the name "pauldude.com".

No help at the dyndns site at all though in finding out what it is I've got, how to use it..... Nothing in Cockos documentation, nothing here. Nothing in Wiki, nothing in Google, nothing on the web that I could find.

How do people get started with this? Is it a secret ? Is there an inaugural initiation ceremony first?

Holiday time for many, so I'll hang on and get some sleep.

Happy Easter!

[pauldude]

Aha!

I've just discovered that my IP address isn't static! I thought it was, but it is now different to what it was yesterday. So I might have given Pete (my jamming partner) the wrong IP address.

Does this mean I will have to check with "showmyip" on the web to get the curent address every time I want to connect with Pete? I made the discovery after it stopped being possible for me to log into my private server.

[pauldude]

Another "Aha!!"

Looks like I did it! I discovered I had to check out to the dyndns cart, even though it was $0, to activate my......whatever it is. Just had to give my credit card number to start the trial, but if all goes well I can pay $20 for a year's hosting. I downloaded their free auto-IP adress-checker
, which should save me having to mess about getting the current IP address.

So I just logged into my reaNinjam private server as:

pauldude.dyndns.org:2049

Sweet! Lonely there, so far, but sweet .

[pauldude]

Well, Pete still can't connect to my server. I have run out of ideas now. It's not his firewall - he can connect to servers in the list in reaNinjam, and I can connect to my server and to the ones in the list.

Down to you guys now....you can't say I haven't tried .

I've checked the config.cfg file, and that works for me. Could there be something I've missed? I've set it to 'no passwords'.

[pljones]

The firewall isn't to stop connections outbound. It stops programs running on your computer allowing inbound connections. A firewall should record attempts at accessing particular services (regardless of whether they're available), too. Check in the Windows log to see if you can see anything relating to your firewall (you may need to read your firewall documentation).

"host" means a computer connected to the internet capable of running a service.

The "abundance of outbound bandwidth" means what it says - you need to be able transmit a lot of data. Most people's broadband connections are set up to receive a lot of data (say, streaming video) whilst transmitting hardly any data (say, choosing the video). When you connect to one of the public NINJAM servers, the only data you're sending is your own. When you're acting as a NINJAM server, you're receiving data from all the clients and then sending all of this data to all of the clients.

One client: one stream in, one stream out (n:n^2)
Two clients: two streams in, four streams out (n:n^2)
Three clients: three streams in, nine streams out (n:n^2)

The server configuration file, I think, says what the audio quality is for each stream. Say it's 128Kbit/s and you have an internet connect with 20Mbit/s incoming. It's likely to have 1Mbit/s outgoing. Both of those are "theoretical maximums" on domestic lines - the ISP quotes them to sell the service and has Ts&Cs that let them actually get away with providing you less.

Take the 1Mbit/s then. That gives 8 times 128Kbit/s. So you could, on a good day, cope with two clients. But three is not going to work as you don't have the bandwidth.

[pauldude]

Thanks for the help and info, pljones!

I've attached a screen shot of my firewall's port tracking department. The highlighted entry is ninjamserver.exe. I don't know why the local IP is a string of zeros, but I'm sure you do.

Today I will get Pete to download the client and we can try connecting that way. There's no choice other than embarking on this long process of elimination and trial and error. I know that no two computer setups are the same, and that there is no definitive "cover all" solution to anything.

Pete and I are both quite isolated....I'm in a forest in the middle of nowhere in Poland (I came here from my native England 18 years ago), and American Pete is in the middle of nowehere in Japan. This Ninjam connection will enable us to have a good time playing with each other, and of course other Ninjammers.

I know that helping to sort out the same issues time after time might become tedious, but I really appreciate your taking the time. I have trawled through this forum extensively to try to fix things myself, and have got as far as I can alone unless I have a light-bulb moment or just happen to stumble on the solution.

Cheers!

[pauldude]

PS....

I had the firewall log option switched off, because previously I wasn't very interested in it . It's on now, so today I will check if Pete's attempt to connect with my server gets blocked at my end.

Baby steps.....

[pauldude]

Re:

"....the ISP quotes them to sell the service and has Ts&Cs that let them actually get away with providing you less."

The rats! I was annoyed earlier this week when I discovered an old Dell desktop I have as a spare has a 2.xGhz (can't remember the exact number there) but is locked via the BIOS at 2.0Ghz, apparently so there's less chance of it screwing up when under warranty!

It's the same as Ford advertising a new car as having a 2.5-litre, 16-valve engine when in fact it has a 2.0-litre engine and just eight valves.

I suspect that money talks in big business .

[guitarville japan]

Hi Paul

Well, did things get worked out. Let's hope we have some good news

[guitarville japan]

This is interesting:

The ReaNINJAM client displays several of the public servers with who's on, as do: http://ninbot.com, http://ninjam.dyndns.org/index-new.php, http://llcon.drealm.info/peter/llcon and several other sites that I don't remember (sorry!).

[pauldude]

Hey Pete! Fancy meeting you here !

llcon is not an option....seriously flawed.

If anyone is passing through with Reaper and reaNinjam open, I'd appreciate if you could connect to my server. I just connected to it myself in reaNinjam from the Ninjam client .

The address is:

pauldude.dyndns.org:2049

If you just connect and then disconnect I'd have a record of it. I'll leave it open for a while.

Thanks!

[pljones]

Originally Posted by pauldude

llcon is not an option

Over the distances you mention, true.

Originally Posted by pauldude

seriously flawed

It's okay when used for the purpose intended (i.e. when the ping interval and network jitter are low enough).

Originally Posted by pauldude

pauldude.dyndns.org

Your host name isn't resolving to a reachable address. Are you making sure you update DynDNS regularly? (Like every time you take a break from your computer for more than 30 minutes... I don't know how bad ISPs are - we've got a fixed IP as we run a server here.)

The picture you showed before looked good but didn't show any information about firewall settings - just the list of network processes running.

Oh - and its not just your PC firewall - your broadband router may also contain a firewall blocking inbound connections.

[pauldude]

Thanks again!

No router, in fact no broadband. The best I can get in an isolated forest is radio CDMA, which can be pretty fast and serves me well. Back in a sec....I'm keen to catch you in

[pauldude]

My firewall settings allow everything to do with Reaper and Ninjam....at the moment it's set at "training", so doesn't block anything as far as I can see.
I've just refreshed the IP and got yet another....thanks for that tip! Perhaps try again if you have time?

[pauldude]

Could I use a different port? I realy have run out of options here .

[pauldude]

And why can I connect to it via reaNinjam? This is the most confusing thing.

[pauldude]

Here is my present config.cfg file content:

# only one port line allowed (last one will be used)
# these are comments
Port 2049



# limit connections of normal users to 10
MaxUsers 10

# limit normal users to 32 channels each, anonymous users to 2
MaxChannels 32 2

ServerLicense cclicense.txt

#anonymoususers yes or no, or multi (to allow multiple users of the same name from the same IP)
AnonymousUsers yes
AnonymousUsersCanChat yes
AnonymousMaskIP yes # shows just the nn.nn.nn.x instead of full IP.


AllowHiddenUsers no # set to yes to allow people without channels to not appear in the user list


#ACL list lets you specify in order a list, first match is used
ACL 0.0.0.0/0 allow
ACL 10.0.0.0/8 deny
ACL 192.168.0.0/16 reserve # reserve slots for local



#user/password/permissions sets
User administrator myadminpass * # allow all functions
User booga anotherpass CBTKRM # allow chat, bpm/bpi, topic changing, and kicking, a reserved slot, and multiple logins
User myuser mypass # allow default functions (chat, no topic)

# optional user/pass with simple status retrieving permissions (this also has the advantage of having the server do less work)
# StatusUserPass username password

DefaultTopic "Welcome to pauldude's jamfest "
DefaultBPM 120
DefaultBPI 8

# two parameters: path to log to, and session length (in minutes). 0 for length means 30 seconds.
# if the first parameter (path) is empty, no logging is done
# SessionArchive . 15


# these two require a full restart to update:

# write PID file (non-windows version only)
# PIDFile ninjamserver.pid

# LogFile ninjamserver.log


# set keep-alive interval in seconds. should probably not bother
# specifying this, the default is 3, which is adequate.
# SetKeepAlive 3

# voting system:
# SetVotingThreshold 50 # sets threshold to 50%. can be 1-100%, or >100 to disable
# SetVotingVoteTimeout 60 # sets timeout before votes are reset, in seconds

[pauldude]

The Dyndns updater is doing it's job - I checked the logs, and it shows me when the address was changed and when the update was done....one second later.

[pljones]

Originally Posted by pauldude

No router, in fact no broadband. The best I can get in an isolated forest is radio CDMA, which can be pretty fast and serves me well.

There will be a firewall in addition to the one on your PC: in this case, it's possible your ISP simply doesn't allow incoming connections. You might want to check with their helpdesk. ... Don't try to explain NINJAM, pretend you're running a web server -- the principle is the same.

...Niggling at the back of my memory is something about why radio CDMA just isn't going to work for this...

Ah yes - remote to base vs base to remote signalling is what I was thinking of... not sure it applies.

Originally Posted by pauldude

Back in a sec....I'm keen to catch you in

I move too fast

[pauldude]

The saga continues....

Wot am finkin' now (sorry, after all this my standards are slippin') is that the server could be at Pete's end, since he has broadband in the tradition style - wires 'n' stuff. If I can get into my server at my end, he should be able to do the same at his. Then I'd be incoming to him instead of vice.

(really slippin' now )

Versa.

Any thoughts? I'll give it a go anyway. If it works I'll ask NASA if they have any jobs going in Poland .

Thanks again!

[pljones]

It's definitely worth a try.

[pauldude]

Last resort I reckon.

I'm listening around a few servers for the first time and jamming along unXmitted . I suppose that one can be blitzed off the mix later if one screws up. And the others can just turn you off if you're annoying. Cool!

[pauldude]

Pete and I are not fantastic musicians (we caught the bug) so I was thinking our server could be a really relaxed, no-stress place for relative beginners to come in and practice together, and get better together.

Are there such spots already?

[pljones]

Originally Posted by pauldude

I'm listening around a few servers for the first time and jamming along unXmitted .

That's a good thing to do.

Originally Posted by pauldude

I suppose that one can be blitzed off the mix later if one screws up. And the others can just turn you off if you're annoying. Cool!

That's not such a good thing to do because you're pushing your problem onto other people to solve, which isn't polite. But see below.

Originally Posted by pauldude

Pete and I are not fantastic musicians (we caught the bug) so I was thinking our server could be a really relaxed, no-stress place for relative beginners to come in and practice together, and get better together.

Are there such spots already?

Originally, Cockos ran some public "test" servers, which were pretty much a "free for all": there was a generally feeling that no one was going to tell you to STFU if you were having set up problems or weren't a "famous recording artist" . Other servers were set up generally by folks wanting somewhere less... public yet still open. However, since the Cockos servers closed, the Ninjamer servers have taken over in some senses and the ninbot servers certainly try to be helpful and welcoming. Other servers - I don't know, I've not used them.

Since 2007, whilst I think I've probably got (a lot) better as a drummer and I've only been "practising" through jamming, I don't think it's through practising with people of a similar ability -- more through trying hard to be better so I can contribute to groups where the average ability is higher than mine.

Further "words of wisdom":
http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...4&postcount=45

Also, make sure you really understand what the "interval" does to how you interact. You have to listen to what's been played, play something, then wait until the other people you're jamming with have received what you've played and listened to it, then played something and for that to arrive back with you -- and only then will you hear what their "response" is. That's very different from a live jam, when you're in eye contact with someone and you can get an instant response. It also means the interval rules the success of the jam. If 16bpi (4 bars of 4/4) doesn't suit the music, change it! (And keep that click on loud enough you can hear it...)

[pauldude]

Thanks for the outline....I think it has to be experienced rather than explained .

Back to the plot....

I got Pete a free host (two in fact) with FreeDNS.afraid and got his server up and running. However, we could not update his hosts in the freeDNS updater. I logged into it as him at my end and the hosts appeared in the window noi problem. So I suspect his firewall....and he may have more than one active. He has the Windows firewall running, and the Trend Micro firewall installed. Regarding this there is no way I can find to check the settings, and uninstallation is denined.

I will continue to post because others might pick up a few tips along the way.

[pauldude]

Regarding free server hosts or whatever the proper name is....

I've read here that dyndns.com no longer provide a host for free. But if you take the free 14-day trial (for which they ask for your credit card details but don't take anything unless you agree later) and then cancel the trial, they let you keep one of your hosts for free.

Hopefully I won't get billed. The free updater continues to work after the trial cancellation.

I nearly know what I'm talking about now .

Just some info above - some may find it useful - but freeDNS is working okay with the free updater, so that's the easiest option in my experience so far.

[pauldude]

I came across this free Microsoft program for checking if your ports are open (listening):

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/310099

Might be handy....

Supports TCP, UDP and BOTH (that's the first two together, not a new technology ).

[pljones]

You'll need to try it from someone else's PC to check your own, of course - checking locally won't reveal all types of filtering.

[pauldude]

I've been wondering why the muckl server is always empty when I go to connect reaNinjam. I met someone in the soundjack chatbox today and we didn't have any luck getting that going, so I suggested she try Ninjam. We ended up in the muckle server and fiddled about with clicks n stuff until we could hear each other.

Maybe it's haunted .

Could be a good place for Pete and I to jam....we wouldn't be bothering anyone, anytime, it seems. I've never seen anyone in there so far in my explorations.

Also, I've been wondering, there must be more people using Ninjam than those listed in the public servers. Do most ninjammers play together on private set ups. If so, what's a fair estimate of the number of private servers?

[pauldude]

Originally Posted by pljones

You'll need to try it from someone else's PC to check your own, of course - checking locally won't reveal all types of filtering.

I have learned this....but it all makes my brain hurt. Packets, protocols, TCP, UDP, pings, pongs, dings, dongs.... .

Maybe Pete and I can jam in the muckl server and be happy with that.

[pljones]

My guess is that a Lot of people enjoy the fact that the Ninjamer and ninbot servers get recorded, letting them listen back later (without having to do any editing in Reaper). I don't think the other servers do.

As for the number of people using it -- take a look through the forums here and over on ninbot. You'll maybe see the same names as you see using the public servers tend to post most of the messages, too -- except when someone new turns up. As to who's running private servers? Well, to do it right, you do need a decent network connection and, if you want more to work with more than one other person, that eliminates using your own PC for most people. So you'd need a hosted service that let you run your own software and didn't limit bandwidth. That can cost into the $100 per month... (e.g. http://www.fasthosts.co.uk/dedicated-servers/ ) The 100Mbps gives around 90 clients at 128kbps...

[pauldude]

Many thanks once more, pljones!

Pete and I just managed to connect in the muckl server and had good, clear two-way audio, albeit with microphones only. So the next step is to plug the guitars in and figure out how to use ninjam.

I just found out that Private Firewall was installed on his computer. The installation had frozen before completion and there was no icon in the tasbar, so we thought it hadn't installed. Wrong! Checked in programs, there it was. Added Reaper to it and 'allowed' and...bingo. Nothing to do with our private server issues - we had those before the Private Firewall was installed.

Good free firewall, by the way - could keep a mosquito out of a building with no windows .

My thanks to the understanding folk in the muckl server today, especially Phil who gave us some help.

One more step and we start jamming!