Go Back   Cockos Incorporated Forums > REAPER Forums > REAPER for Live Use

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-29-2014, 02:01 AM   #1
godly
Human being with feelings
 
godly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Belgium - Gent
Posts: 703
Default Tutorial: Reaper as live VST host with SWS Live Configs

Hi fellows,

As promised, I'd like to present you my findings in how I've setup Reaper as Live host with Live Configs. I've been working with other Live Host on Windows 8.1 the last year, did some 30 gigs, but got some crashes or some bugs. Needles to say this is problematic in live situations. So I decided to switch over to Reaper.
  • The benefit of Reaper: it has a surprisingly low latency and the stability is very promissing! The memory footprint is very low and startup very quick.
  • Downside: You have to puzzle it all together and the GUI loading is slow, plus some practical problems to solve.




Here's the YOUTUBE video also

Here's the complete Reaper 4.71 x86 download file with my project, if it can be of any educational help:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6I...it?usp=sharing
(any help on how to export the sws settings and other template stuff for download is welcome)

We will add great extra functionality with the extra plugin SWS, which you can download and install from here: http://sws.mj-s.com/ (find the manual here www.standingwaterstudios.com/reaper/REAPERPlusSWS171.pdf)
It contains the Live Config by Jeffos, which is a handy tool and preset selector for live uses. You can find an older manual here http://sws.mj-s.com/download/S&M_LiveConfigs_Ed2.pdf

Live configs permits users to easy arrange the playlist and select from your music keyboard with an assigned midi rotary.

I'll try to explain step by step, because I know when you start of, it's not that simple.


This simple setup tutorial is for live vst FX chains to be used as a synth module. Just select the preset and song as you would on a real synth. I have no special settings for songs or tracks to play along or extra actions. I also don't have an audio input tracks here, but it's the same practice to add.

Here we go:
  • This setup works on Reaper x86 version only, as the windows are bridged in x64 , snapshots don't remember the positions of the FX.
  • I assume you know how to install and where to find the SWS panels from the menu. Easiest way is to set all the panels floating, such as Mixer, master track, custom toolbar, etc,...
  • Start by adding all your tracks you will ever need and add the FX to it. Put up as many tracks as instruments (FX chains) you will be using. Add colors for easy recognition. This is because adding or deleting tracks will affect all snapshots and give problems.
  • Build up your FX chains in the tracks.
    In my case this is a track FX chain: Keyboard split FX (see below) + synth + extra reverb effect.
  • To create keyboard splits, zones and filters: I've used KX Midi Filter. (it has so many practical functions in 1 plugin)
    Just put it in front of your FX you'd like to split or filter the cc. There are other good JS scripts also for this.

    Download
    Kx-Midi-Filter
    VSTi to filter Midi data (only Midi In and Midi Out, no audio).

    Remark:
    I used MBfilter2 and Midi Note Filter EX instead of the above Kx Midi Filter, because there's a bug with the sustain (keeps on sustaining)
    https://stash.reaper.fm/5171/MB_Filter2_1.0.zip
    https://stash.reaper.fm/v/7305/midi_note_filter_ex
  • We will be using the SWS snapshots to remember the FX chains, FX presets, FX locations, mixer settings etc.

    These are my settings:


    You can always easily save a new version of a snapshot by click+Ctrl on it. To delete, click+Alt
  • Show/hide/bypass the tracks you need, you can use the Track Manager for this:
  • Use Screensets to switch between Live and Edit modus.
    Load and save your screensets from the menu or assigned keystrokes.
    I've created 9 buttons to show/hide the mixer, track manager, snapshots, Live configs and monitor panels. I've added also 2 screensets: Hide and Show the panels. (plus a save screenset 2 button for the live view, since my main window is hidden in the corner)


    Switch between Live and Edit screenset modus: (don't mind the song name)
  • Put the vst's floating in place where you would like to see them, for that particular song. Save your snapshot. (Save: Ctrl+click, Del: Alt+click on the snapshot)
  • Preferably you will be showing only some FX windows per song. (you probably want to hide the split FX or other)
    Since SWS snapshots does not remember the floating or docked state of an FX, you can hide unused FX in the right corner. (I also have hidden my main window in the right down corner in the Live Screenset.)
  • In Live Configs (LC), we will determine which song uses which snapshot. Very simple. No input track, no defined track or presets or other actions. (see the recommended LC settings on bottom Notes)
    Just add the snapshot number in the actions column in the LC panel. (click the cell to open the actions window, choose Recall Snapshot X as action, click again the cell, click again the action to add)
    You can copy/cut/paste rows in LC also for easy organizing of your playlist.


    You can show the monitor panel on top of your screen, click the button on the LC panel (double click the monitor window to show the preloaded next preset):
  • Direct selection of the presets: On my Midi keyboard I assigned a midi rotary knob fixed on channel 1 (so I can still switch channels, because the Learn function uses a fixed midi channel) to select the current song. (see Learn function on the Live Configs panel) This is an absolute rotary, the number you dial is the Live Configs you select. (0-127)

    I've set the switch delay to 1000ms. Switching goes smoothly. Reaper is a bit slow to build up the vst GUI's, but it's no problem since the sound comes first and has no glitches.

    Preload selection of the presets: Alternatively you can choose to preload a preset with the rotary and push an other controller button to confirm it to load. Select the Swap/load Life Config command from the keymaps panel (NOT via Learn, Apply Life Config X)

    From the actions panel:
    • assign a button: SWS Live config 01 - Apply preloaded config (swap preload/current) (choose absolute en soft takeover!)
    • assign a rotary: SWS Live config 01 - Preload next config

    Preload on the rotary and confirm load on the button:




I still need to find a way to change the tempo BPM settings for every song, since tempo is defined for the whole file, you cannot change it with the SWS snapshots. Maybe there are some actions that can do it?

If you have different LC setups, please add you screenshots here. It would be very interesting to see users their live setups and best practices. If somebody is interested, I'm willing to share my project file here also. It would be great of other share their files also. As a starting point of course.

Let me know if it works for you.


Quote:
* Notes:
The Live Configs Recommended settings:
6) Important recommendations
  • REAPER > Preferences > Audio > Close audio device *…+: all disabled
    → We want to use the audio engine whatever happens
  • REAPER > Preferences > Audio > Buffering > Allow live FX multi processing: enabled + set the proper number of CPUs
  • REAPER > Preferences > Audio > Playback > Run FX when stopped: enabled
  • REAPER > Preferences > Audio > Track mute fade: set the 100 ms there
    → The tool obeys this preference when it activates configs (smooth switching)
  • REAPER > Preferences > Audio > Do not process muted tracks: enabled
    → CPU savings when the Live Configs’ option “mute all but active track” is enabled
  • REAPER > General > Maximum undo memory use: 0 (i.e. undo disabled)
  • REAPER > Main menu > Extensions > SWS Options: disable everything there
  • Audio/MIDI plugins: if you face some issues, contact the author for a bug fix. no fix => quarantine (I personally do not advice bridging buggy plugins: some features of the Live Configs like preset switching will not be supported).
Quote:
UPDATES LOG:
  • KX midi filter has a bug with the sustain pedal keeping on when once pressed, looking for a better solution
  • Looking for a way to change the tempo without running reaper (or a macro to 1. select snapshot 2. play/stop region )
  • I've found a way to not directly or delayed switch the program, with LC you can choose to preselect it and when pushing an other controller button confirm it to load.

Last edited by godly; 03-13-2015 at 12:24 PM.
godly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2014, 03:35 AM   #2
vitalker
Human being with feelings
 
vitalker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,862
Default

It's incredible! But can you make a video with switching between the configs?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexan View Post
Make a thread "F%#! you Reaper! I quit!" to get more views and feedback since these kind of threads get much more traction
SoundCloudFR: True Non-destructive GLUEAll the REAPER names
vitalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2014, 03:39 AM   #3
godly
Human being with feelings
 
godly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Belgium - Gent
Posts: 703
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vitalker View Post
It's incredible! But can you make a video with switching between the configs?
If I know what software to use for it, yes :]
godly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2014, 04:59 AM   #4
vitalker
Human being with feelings
 
vitalker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,862
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by godly View Post
If I know what software to use for it, yes :]
For example, http://www.cockos.com/licecap/ or http://sourceforge.net/projects/cams...urce=directory
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexan View Post
Make a thread "F%#! you Reaper! I quit!" to get more views and feedback since these kind of threads get much more traction
SoundCloudFR: True Non-destructive GLUEAll the REAPER names
vitalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2014, 05:06 AM   #5
godly
Human being with feelings
 
godly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Belgium - Gent
Posts: 703
Default

Ok, let me try Camstudio tonight :-)
godly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2014, 07:06 AM   #6
heda
Human being with feelings
 
heda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Spain
Posts: 5,598
Default

the beauty of Reaper.
heda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2014, 12:31 PM   #7
Halma
Human being with feelings
 
Halma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 281
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by godly View Post
...

I still need to find a way to change the tempo BPM settings for every song, since tempo is defined for the whole file, you cannot change it with the SWS snapshots. Maybe there are some actions that can do it?

...
Not quite sure if it works but perhaps you could use tempomarkers and "jump around" via some marker actions?

http://wiki.cockos.com/wiki/index.ph...ation_with_SWS

and

http://wiki.cockos.com/wiki/index.ph...pping_with_SWS


Btw nice and detailed write up. Thx for this. Very inspiring.

Regards
Sebastian
__________________
Underground Music Production: Sound Design, Machine Funk, High Tech Funk

Last edited by Halma; 04-30-2014 at 12:38 PM.
Halma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2014, 01:26 PM   #8
foxAsteria
Human being with feelings
 
foxAsteria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 7,374
Default

I think you can only change bpm during playback (no direct actions). I also need playback to send bank change messages so I just have reaper running during live use and navigate between items and/or regions to change songs, which loads my notes (s&m), changes the bpm, and even loads the appropriate keyboard patch onto my microkorg. pretty snazzy. Just gotta remember to mute my backing tracks.
__________________
Myyy Wyyyrd Music
foxAsteria is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2014, 01:26 AM   #9
Halma
Human being with feelings
 
Halma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 281
Default

Just wanna add that I really appreciate your work. Obviously you have spend lots of time in configuring stuff and setting up the needed actions. I am in a "similar" position right now.

After years of regular use of DAWs as my production playground (mostly default layout mixed up with customized stuff but nothing gamechanging) I am swlowly changing my complete GUI and Reaper behaviour. I have unbound all mousemodifiers and shortcuts and starting from scratch right now. Eg I think I finally found some nice window behaviour I can live with in Reaper. It is still in very early development but feels somehow pretty tight even at this early stage.

I am very impressed with your detailed setup. This one helps me a lot in trying out some new stuff I have not even thought off. I like how you mixed up various Actions, how you arranged your stuff and how everything behaves.

Kudos for sharing it with us. If I find the time I will do something similar but I am pretty short on time due various other projects and life.

Will definitely subscribe to this thread.

Regards
Sebastian
__________________
Underground Music Production: Sound Design, Machine Funk, High Tech Funk
Halma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2014, 01:32 AM   #10
godly
Human being with feelings
 
godly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Belgium - Gent
Posts: 703
Default

Thx so much my friends for all the loving words !
I've put some work in it indeed, I hope it works out and I can use it for some years. Reprogramming all the stuff takes so much time and when it's useless a bit frustrating...

I'm still trying to find out these things:
- how to run different actions in 1 action in SWS LC (Live Configs)
- the tempo thingy,... so there's no other way than running
- can I start running reaper between some markers to automaticly start stop a song with actions?

This all would be handy, so when I switch to a setup via LC and press play, it changes the tempo, runs some intro or mp3 playback...

All input is welcome Please share the knowledge, I'd love to get reaper running on stage.
I switched back last concert to Intone, which is ok, but hangs after a while (think some plugin issues). And I kinda miss the fast way that the vst gui's are loaded. Is there a way to get this fixed in Reaper? That would solve allot. Or do I need to ask for a feature request?
godly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2014, 01:34 AM   #11
godly
Human being with feelings
 
godly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Belgium - Gent
Posts: 703
Default

Btw, I've found a way to not directly or delayed switch the program, with LC you can choose to preselect it and when pushing an other controller button confirm it to load.

Last edited by godly; 05-06-2014 at 01:44 AM.
godly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2014, 01:46 AM   #12
godly
Human being with feelings
 
godly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Belgium - Gent
Posts: 703
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PooFox View Post
I think you can only change bpm during playback (no direct actions). I also need playback to send bank change messages so I just have reaper running during live use and navigate between items and/or regions to change songs, which loads my notes (s&m), changes the bpm, and even loads the appropriate keyboard patch onto my microkorg. pretty snazzy. Just gotta remember to mute my backing tracks.
I'm not sure PooFox (is that correct,haha)...
Are you using different files for every song, or 1 file with all the programs (songs),...? And do you work with regions or so to jump to?
godly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2014, 06:46 AM   #13
garubi
Human being with feelings
 
garubi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Italy
Posts: 40
Default

Godly,
thank you for your detailed post and video!
I'm just now experimenting with Reaper in live gigs and your suggestions are very welcome!

Stefano
garubi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2014, 07:10 AM   #14
godly
Human being with feelings
 
godly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Belgium - Gent
Posts: 703
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by garubi View Post
Godly,
thank you for your detailed post and video!
I'm just now experimenting with Reaper in live gigs and your suggestions are very welcome!

Stefano
Let us know what works or doesn't for you.
godly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2014, 03:18 PM   #15
foxAsteria
Human being with feelings
 
foxAsteria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 7,374
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by godly View Post
I'm not sure PooFox (is that correct,haha)...
Are you using different files for every song, or 1 file with all the programs (songs),...? And do you work with regions or so to jump to?
yes different files per song, but one long one with regions could work too. the items are actually the recordings, all on one track which i practice to and then mute for live use. I have another track with only program/bank items, but i plan to consolidate using free item positioning on a single track.

i was using sws region manager to choose and loop regions, but had to set up macros to get certain other behaviors. i prefer selecting items directly so i can have my item notes update on on item selection change.

so now i just switch between items with bpm markers at the starts. the macros turn on repeat and set the loop to the item to prevent next songs loading too soon if we played slowly.

note that if you want to switch items on a track that's not selected you need the sws "across tracks" item select actions.

i also use a midi controller and cycle actions (to select tracks directly by name via console commands) to arm/unarm tracks whenever i need to switch fx chains (each chain on it's own track, all tracks using the same input).

switching presets live scares me. plugins can crash then, but selecting and arming tracks is very safe. plus there's usually a bit of delay during the switch and effect trails get cut off. so i arm and unarm tracks with different chains instead of muting them or switching fx presets in order to preserve delay and reverb tails when switching.

btw i think we might need an FR for switching banks and bpm outside of playback. might exist already tho...
__________________
Myyy Wyyyrd Music
foxAsteria is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2014, 04:44 AM   #16
godly
Human being with feelings
 
godly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Belgium - Gent
Posts: 703
Default

Hm, one long with regions,... doesn't that mean you have to 'run' the song?
I'm not sure that's possible with SNS-LC ?
Also, Can you have a group of actions, macros, to start stop songs or play regions?
godly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2016, 02:48 AM   #17
godly
Human being with feelings
 
godly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Belgium - Gent
Posts: 703
Default

I'm making progress with this action.
Any experiences of you guys?

What I want to ask: do you guys have any clue how to clean up the snapshots? seems that they are taking up all the space and time of loading a new preset.

Some presets take way to long (talking about 5 sec or so) and that's to long on stage.
godly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2017, 12:10 AM   #18
otofo
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 5
Default

I wanted to add more sound patches (new tracks w/ new VSTs) and set them up same as the existing, with snapshots, and recalling those snapshots in new rows in LC, same as the existing.

Problem is the new patches do not mute when switching to another. Everything I have checked is the same as the older patches that self-mute when switching to another.

Does adding new tracks cause the previous snapshots to not work correctly? Do I need to delete all my previous snapshots and redo them?
otofo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2017, 05:11 AM   #19
mschnell
Human being with feelings
 
mschnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 8,403
Default

in each "config" (=table) SWS-LiveConfig simply unmutes the selected track (only one) and mutes all those that are mentioned in that table but this one.

To unmute multiple tracks you need to use more than one config-table.

But each table needs to be assigned to listen to a dedicated CC#.

So if you want to unmute multiple tracks with a single midi message, you need to do some programming: Either create a new message (e.g. by means of a JSFX) or use the actions SWS-LiveConfigs can issue when a midi message is acknowledged.

-Michael
mschnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2019, 07:34 AM   #20
posteriori
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 7
Default bypass split fx

"Preferably you will be showing only some FX windows per song. (you probably want to hide the split FX or other)
Since SWS snapshots does not remember the floating or docked state of an FX, you can hide unused FX in the right corner. (I also have hidden my main window in the right down corner in the Live Screenset.)"

Maybe I'm missing something here...
Is it possible to bypass split fx when I switch to different config?
Sometimes when I use the same vst I do need split, sometimes I don't.
I've tried clicking bypass, saving the snapshot but it doesn't work.
I have to manually toggle the fx on and off.
I'm sure there must be a way to do it via live configs or snapshots but I'm not seeing it.
posteriori is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.