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Old 06-05-2010, 09:50 AM   #121
Iokanaan
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Fox News... Could there ever be some more manipulated media on this planet ?
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Old 06-05-2010, 10:40 AM   #122
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This is EXACTLY what Israel is doing. Not giving a fuck anymore about anyone's point of view, diving into madness and imprisoning itself into the spiral of blind violence which, once, will overflow it.

You put yourself into danger with the need of nobody else's help by dispossessing people from their rights and dignity and land and by occupying and colonising and oppressing them and by occupying since 60 years on the single reason that they are not from the same blood as you, you are the responsible of the actually growing hate towards you that is rising, you have the power to end this, you refuse to use it, it's your choice.

Gaza is dying actually. Not you. And by your hands. The Palestinians are in danger. Not you. Do you know Norman Finkelstein ? A jewish American thinker, son of people who were in the Varsovie ghetto. He claims that what Israel is making to the people of Gaza currently is the same as what was made to his parents by the nazis. think about it.

I don't talk for fun/Action. I'm concretely thinking about being a part of the next ships to Gaza to try and help the people your country condemn to death. With no weapons. With no gun in my hand - only my heart. I hope I will have the occasion and the courage to do that. And I hope the ship will not stop when your military people will decide to refuse us the right to come in assistance of starving and dying people that you've decided to let die because you hate them from the depth of your corrupted heart. And if I die, I die. And if you support that, you will be responsible for that. And the day - that truly makes me want to cry when I think of it - the day when you will have to pay the bill of all you've done for 60 years is coming. I don't say it because I'm glad of it - it breaks my heart. I say it because that's the law of things.

You reap what you saw. For 60 years, you've sewed violence and hate, manipulation, oppression, racial discrimination. The time of the reaper is now. Wake up before it's too late. Wake up - and repent. This is not a threat. May you understand it or not, this is a friendly advice. Be of the rare heroes of your country who have enough heart to realize that the victim in this story is the Palestinians and that soon it will become you too.

Hope you will have a brain, a heart and ears to hear that. Because it's not impossible that this summer, the people you choose to vote for are going to start the third world war.

so much ugly ignorance in one post.

It is way too obvious that you know noting about the situation.
maybe you need to see few public execution by those terror groups to understand who we deal with. this isn't a territorial war!

the more you try to help with your prudery, the less chances we have to make peace.

Israel take care of innocent people in gaza and everywhere in the world more than those hardcore muslims care about their own people.

HERE ARE YOUR FKING PEACEFUL FRIENDS: http://www.road90.com/watch.php?id=rZIwlvfsAe

ps - Israel does give a fk about the world's opinion (way too much than any other country, any other country would say fk you and she would bomb iran long time ago) , but I think Israel should stop giving a fk...because israel deal with people that laugh about the world's opinion day by day, missle by missle....in your face and they are proud for laughing at you.

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Old 06-05-2010, 10:49 AM   #123
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btw Iokanaan, are you christian ?
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Old 06-05-2010, 12:34 PM   #124
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Shum - I'm Jewish, I've spent time in Israel, and I feel Israel is doing wrong here.

You can not kill unarmed civilians in international waters. and the blockade itself is collective punishment.

The policy of blockade is a dead end - it goes nowhere - there is no way out. The gazan's can't be exterminated and they have nowhere to go. This policy plays right into the hands of Israel's enemies, aside from being wrong in itself.

Everyone knows what the outlines of a peace would be but noone has the political will to make it happen, and at this point there are not even credible negotiating partners on the Palestinian side, and th US and Israel share the responsibility for this state of affairs, pushing the Palestinians towards islam, radicalism - seeking friends where they can find them.

anyhow the deal is this - return to the 68 borders. Negotiate the right of return - let perhaps 20k Palestinians return, the rest would be paid. If payment were say $10,000 to each of a million households is only 10 billion, less than the annual military aid to the region from the US...

Likewise settlers would have to be compensated for the land they would be losing by "eminent domain" as it were.

Security arrangements would have to be negotiated - I would think that an international presence would be the only hope.

And Israel should in my opinion join the modern world - and become the secular Hebrew republic - setting aside its ethnic and religious identity in favor of a multi-cultural Hebrew state.

Iokanaan - your language is inflammatory: 'the time of the reaper is here' - the only hope in this siuation is for reason to prevail - apocalyptic language is not helpful. And opposition to the blockade is not "rare" in Israel - a minority position perhaps, but there is a significant peace movement in Israel. And that movement has many fellow travellers here in the US - check out the Tikkun organisation run by rabbi Lerner.
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Old 06-05-2010, 01:40 PM   #125
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what do you think that Israel did in the last few years?!
Israel gave them lands and they use it as strategic points for their extreme religious terror...

get real already before it will come to you and force you to get real when its too late.

Israel is only their starting point...their main target is to spread their terroristic religious by force all over the world.

Do you think that the president of Iran care about Gaza?! Gaza is just an exuse for him to open his religious war.

You should know that there are many arabs living inside Israel, lots of arab students in many universities, lots of arab workers, we live side by side and work together.

Israel never had problem with peaceful arabs.
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Old 06-05-2010, 03:05 PM   #126
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Reflected: yes there are people who want to use Gaza for religious war: this policy of blockade only helps strengthen those people's hands.

I know that the ships here were hoping to provoke a response like this - how stupid then to give them what they want...

and Israel did not "give" people lands - Israel "returned" them their lands. OF course Israel still occupies land and is building new settlements...

as far as "extreme religious terror", 30 years ago the Palestinians were not so religious. Arafat was not a pious man. It is hopelessness that has turned (some of them) to fundamentalism.

question? What would you call it if Hamas boarded an American ship carrying arms to Haifa and killed civilians there?
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Old 06-05-2010, 03:16 PM   #127
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question? What would you call it if Hamas boarded an American ship carrying arms to Haifa and killed civilians there?
I would call it a bad comparison, as the vessel Israel stormed has not been shown to have had arms or even anything naughty on board.
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Old 06-05-2010, 03:49 PM   #128
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Agreed Lokesaana - I just meant that even if the ship had arms, if Hamas boarded it for "security" reasons it would be called terrorism and people would go nuts.

But Israel boarded a ship without weapons and gunned down even an American Citizen...
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Old 06-05-2010, 07:06 PM   #129
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I know that the ships here were hoping to provoke a response like this - how stupid then to give them what they want...
It was a lose this way or another.

It is like cheating your wife with another woman.
if your wife don't ask you where were you everynight that you go out without her, she won't be able to ask it later, because then he will scream at her "don't you trust me?! how dare you asking me!"
either way, since you don't mind to keep cheating your wife or leaving her...you leaves her without any peaceful option....if your wife is smart, she will not let you cheating her anymore, it is better for her to leave you asap.

Terrorists test your security alertness/boundaries carefully...now it was only aid, in other times it is full of weapons.
if you let them go in without checking, next time you won't be able to check them, because this is the impression that you leave...(remember the "how dare you asking me" from the cheating your wife example above?).

Just like israel got used to suffer missles, instead of starting a war on the first missle that been shut to israel. (now look what happened, the world scream at israel for defesing herself. because people got used to the situation that it is okay to shoot missles to israel, but

it is not okay for israel to defense, not talking about response..)

People get used to things, and once they get used to it, it is hard to change that.

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Israel did not "give" people lands - Israel "returned" them their lands. OF course Israel still occupies land and is building new settlements....
Lets get some facts:
Did you ever check the history of the palestinians?! there isn't much to check....there was never such a nation in the history...
Those are just refugees from different places that turned to be a nation somehow in the last 100 years...

The whole situation is absurd, and people just get used to those things...PEOPLE GET USED! (is it clear enough that people get used to absurd things?!)

Did you ever check the history of israel?
The Israeli nation is wroten all over the history books, we were living in this place before,... we have here lots of historical evidence (material discoveries, buildings, the temple mount, ancient jewish mosaic art, below the ground and above it etc..), it is not a fiction. this is what 80% of the people in the world can read in their own books (muslims and christians), and see it in their own eyes.

There are tons of lands for muslims and christians, those palestinians could live almost anywhere...
There is only one land for the jews (which is Israel), this is so obvious, I can't believe that people actually need to discuss about those things.

we are doing those palestians a favor when we give them lands, we are way too much peaceful nation!

if you ask me, we shouldn't play in their game in the first place...we should stop being so nice to them.. when people see someone who give up on so much precious things and he is being so tolerant, they don't think that he is a good person, they suspect that he is a bad person and they actually start to believe that they deserved all that he has, because there is no way that someone is being so tolerant and merciful. this is human nature simply.

Last edited by Reflected; 06-05-2010 at 07:12 PM.
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Old 06-05-2010, 07:17 PM   #130
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I know settlers who come from Brooklyn...
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Old 06-05-2010, 08:51 PM   #131
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I Am Israel - Documentary Film HD Version
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Old 06-06-2010, 01:30 AM   #132
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I hope israel and palestine wipe eachother off!
nuc'em
there i said it!
these people do not know anything but violence,so i believe killing is in their blood,warfare is cellular,and has been passed down from generation to generation.
theire nothing but deathbringers.
fuck your religion!
to hell with your culture!
are there any israelians/palestine people in here or arab blood?
I pray that things will happen to you people,so shocking that you would not recover from it even if you lived ten thousand years.
I dont hate mid eastern people i just absolutely despise them!
would that mean im a racist?
well in that sense then
im proud to be one.
one other thing i dont get?
why is europe sending supplies to war and bloodhungry nation
and then get killed in the progress?
were talking about normal people leaving their kids and loved ones
at home so they can get themselves killed and leave
their loved ones forever?? no beter than those arab shit's!
i have no sympathy for those people on that ship either!
they are just as much the bad guy as palestine/israel.
we should just let them kill each other off.
and if israel will kill them all and win this war?
it will not be winning they are the loosers
and world nation will never look at that country the same eye again!

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Old 06-06-2010, 02:56 AM   #133
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@ Reflected and Shum :

I've been to your country and ALSO to the Occupied territories, thing that you may have never done in your whole life, and I've seen the misery and death of the Arab people and it has wiped out all the elements of your propaganda I had still in me for ever - so who is in his bubble ? I know the story of your country for having studied it, probably better than you - which means ALSO the writings of what is called "the new school" of Israeli Jewish historians that go and see the horrific reality behind the glamorous myth of the creation of Israel. Check Illan Pappé "the ethnic cleansing of Palestine" for further informations. since the Jabotinsky doctrine (1923), the point has always been nothing but "strike and crush the Arabs in every circumstance with the greatest violence or there will be no Jewish state" and it has never changed, apart from the short Rabbin episode.

You claim about your right to defend yourself. It is 60 years since every act of conquest and colonisation has been put on the false good excuse of "survival", of defense against a new Shoah coming. A single look at this map ( http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...4902498&ref=mf ) shows clearly what is to be thought about the sincerity and legitimacy of this argument. Beyond words of lies to blur people's mind, THIS is the reality of what Israel calls its "legitimate defense", its "survival", its "right to live" for 60 years. Crap and lies and propaganda. This is a conquest policy, nothing more. You deal with missiles falling on Israel from Gaza (in fact, there are not missiles but handmade rockets that make holes in walls and killed 16 people in 10 years, what missiles are is what your army bombed Lebanon with in 2006 entailing 3000 dead people in one month and transforming blocks of residence into holes in the ground). You forget as always to mention that in the Occupied Territories of the West Bank (named like that because the occupation is ILLEGAL regarding the international law that gave to ISrael nothing less than its existence), THE COLONISATION IS STILL GOING ON for 40 YEARS NOW. THIS is the reason of the rockets from Gaza which are the only act of resistance against oppression from desperate people in this whole story. GIVE THEM BACK ALL THAT THE INTERNATIONAL RIGHT CLAIMS TO BE THEIR LAND AND YOU WON'T HAVE ROCKETS FROM GAZA ANYMORE. You don't fight for your right to live in peace. You fight for your right to conquer without being annoyed and disturbed by those people who have the impoliteness not to recognize to your blood a superiority of right on this land upon their blood and the impoliteness not to let you disposess them of all they have without saying nothing. And when they say and fiond the means of the desperate to resist in an extremely uneffective way (16 dead people in 10 years), you organise mass massacres as punishment like in Gaza last year (1500 dead people (100 times more) in 3 weeks (140 times faster)). Anything else that you say is lies and propaganda.

Avraham Burg, one of your heroes, an ancient president of the Knesset, was saying even before the "war on Gaza" which was the slaughtering of Gaza that the current Israeli society was comparable in racism and cult of its army to the Germany of the thirties. Gideon Levy, a journalist who is also one of your heroes, wrote recently an article saying that your country had entered a period of military and religious fascism that was "democratic" because supported and shared by the majority of the population.

Your words absolutely prove them right. You are totally blinded by the propaganda you are told and telling in return. there is not a shadow of love of those people who are not of the same blood as you and with whom you will never share this land that you claim your - upon which you claim the superiority of right of the superiority of your blood, which makes the "Great Israel" ethnically cleansed from its Arabs which is the purpose since the beginning of the colonisation of Palestine absolutely at the image of the "Great Germany" of the nazis ethnically cleansed from its Jewish people. The words you have about Arab people are EXACTLY the same as those who were said in the antisemitic propaganda before the war in Europe about the jewish people.

You are ready for this great war. You have it into your heart. You call it. And you will have it. There is none of my words, none of any words that will make it change - that will make you change. Your hearts are contaminated by this disease. You will need to have the blood of your people on your feet to understand. Your will need it on your face to recover your eyes. And you will have it.

This is sad at a tremendous measure. I do pity you. Really. And me, also, because you will take the whole world into this madness that is your with you and we will all dive together.

Those will be my last words.

And, no, Shum, I'm not "christian". I'm something that does not fit to any existing box in your mind, that overflows them all, but something that include also judaism - and I wear a kippa for that. See here people I go on the streets with to criticise Israel. They all are "only" Jewish people. And say EXACTLY the same as I do. www.ujfp.org . (means Jewish French Union for Peace).

@Semiquaver : afraid by my apocalyptic words that are of no use here ? Check for a recent public speech of a guy warning Israel that attacking Iran could entail a global and worldwide nuclear conflict. You will find that this guy is no more than Medvedev, the current president of Russia. There is a time for words of comfort. there is a time for screaming alerts because we're on a train that goes straight to the abyss at high speed. This time is now. so are my words. Yes, a global conflict could be entailed in the coming months by Israel's military madness and by the following of its "best friends" America and Europe. For me, it is the fact of not wanting to see and admit all this and to say it as it is that is of no use - and dangerous.

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Old 06-06-2010, 04:22 AM   #134
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there i said it!
oh he said it...

Quote:
would that mean im a racist?
since it come from your ignorance, you are obviously not a racist...you are just a self centered childlike.

It won't take too long untill your country will be under radical muslim pressure, talk then...when the reality will force you to open your mind and think about this world and life in different aspects.

Quote:
these people do not know anything but violence
How about you don't use anything that invented/developed by israelis?!

lets start with your Cell Phone.
Disk On Key/USB stick.
First edible camera pill (which help doctors to diagnose abnormality early and saving thousands of lives)
Firewall
Antivirus
Intel Pentium chip
Instant messaging
Most of the Windows NT operating system was developed by Microsoft-Israel
voice mail technology
VOIP technology
Phone camera chip.
Insulin pill
first fully computerized, no-radiation, diagnostic instrumentation for breast cancer.
vaccine against cervical cancer.

and this is just a small random list..

nothing but violence?

Israel has the thrid largest number of companies trading on wall street.

Israel leads the world in the number of scientists and technicians in the workforce, with 145 per 10,000, as opposed to 85 in the U.S., over 70 in Japan, and less than 60 in Germany. Over 25% of the country's work force is employed in technical professions - first in this category as well

should I mention how much israel help when natural disaster happens in the world? Israel is the first to be there for the weaks. Israel was there for countries that even their neighbors didn't come to help.

In the USA 7000 people p.a die because of inaccurate monitoring of medication. -> Through the invention of a monitoring system, Israel have eliminated this human error.

Nothing but violence you say...
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Old 06-06-2010, 05:54 AM   #135
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so youre saying that all these gizmos come from israel too?
i was born and alive before some of those gizmos came to be!
and i most definatly can live without them!

how many people have gone literaly crazy cos of the economy?
you think that this system is healthy and is prosperous?
do you not see that the world economy is collapsing?
there is a chance that people will loose it,
whats gonna happen? donate the insulin pill?
or get up and treat your neighbor!
and yet you praise those things!

alright few good deed's still wont clean their hands from blood they've spilled in the name of whatever god,santa,lands and shit they worship.

and muslims in my country?
they have made an effort but i guess people here
are above organized religion in a box!
and never been any military in the history of my country either.
rest of the modern world is repulsive.

bloodsuckers!

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Old 06-06-2010, 08:30 AM   #136
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Israel is not Evil - Israel is misgoverned. The current ruling elite rules by encouraging the crazy fringe in Palestine and using the fear of those people to bring Israel down a ruinous path. Just like W did to the US for 8 years. The truth is that most PAlestinians just want to live, like anyone else - so many opportunities for peace have been passed up on both sides. One day they may make peace - it took the Irish 950 years - and South Africa a good long time - but it can happen.

my feeling: the US should impose peace - its easily done as the Isaeli are completely dependant on us. In a real way, its our problem. Our military support takes away the Israeli incentive to manage the situation intelligently.
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Old 06-06-2010, 08:34 AM   #137
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Some really interesting posts here. To somehow get it back to music too though, I just think who is interested in all this (I am since ages as my ancestors were jews, and quite a few like my grand-grand-ma killed by the Nazis in my country, Germany) could like to read the things Daniel Barenboim, a world-class piano player and conductor, writes at his homepage. It is surely not the "official" stand-point in Israel, rather a very minor position (sadly enough). Barenboim runs an orchestra with musicians from Israel and Palestine. In Israel he seems to have many ennemies, but many admirers also. He is a citizen - he claims to be the only one - who has a passport from Israel AND from the Palestines.
Recently he told that of course the suicide attacks of Hamas are nothing any at least a bit human being could "find excuses for" (what should be "good" at to go into a bus and kill all people there, and yourself?????). But that the history is rather one-sided now, and that people in Gaza feel quite left alone. And they are. Hopefully this will change after the 8 years with Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld and others, and with the now german chancellor in 2003 kind of following Bush rather blindly (like this time again, nobody criticises Mrs. Merkel for that).

So besides writings that cover the history of this tragic killing since 60 years, Barenboim's view about the Gaza strip bombing is to be found
HERE. A very very good reading, that includes what all american news constantly don't send - the fact that Hamas was supported by Israel in the past. A logic a bit similar to the one that the western world supported Saddam Hussein in the past, against Iran (and here the similarity ends, mind).

I always tend to think high of people that still are able to think around the next border in the midst of chaos. Barenboim certainly is such a person, and a great musician.
I'd like to stay away from this discussion but that is a very thoughtful article. The current situation in Gaza is untenable, the Israelis and Palistinians really have to get their heads together and find a way of this. Barenboim is an excellent pianist and musician btw, I've seen him during a live rehearsal with the SF Symphony; magnificent.
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Old 06-06-2010, 08:45 AM   #138
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and never been any military in the history of my country either.
That's not quite true.
Most coutries have a history of conflict (even yours)

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Old 06-06-2010, 10:33 AM   #139
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wtf?? hehe damn totally busted!
alright i take back everything i said,it was un-thoughtful and careless
if i have insulted any palestine/israelean here then you have my apologies.
this whole thing in middle east is just one sad pile of shit,that people treat other people like that.
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Old 06-06-2010, 10:35 AM   #140
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its pretty clear who has the more ignorant attitude in this thread, at least.
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Old 06-06-2010, 12:12 PM   #141
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ignorance is making music and shut the hell up and it's a bliss.
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Old 06-06-2010, 01:11 PM   #142
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That's not quite true.
Most coutries have a history of conflict (even yours)

Some countries even have volcanic ash clouds that paralize half of the world's flight traffic.

Why don't you do something about that.
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Old 06-06-2010, 02:03 PM   #143
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Why don't you do something about that.
I might write a song and a video?

i actually had a little kick out of that mountain.
amazing that such a modest eruption could have such an effect outside this island.
i wonder what will happen if a stronger volcano erupts,
people died last time it happened,
changed the weather pattern arround the glope
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Old 06-06-2010, 07:00 PM   #144
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I might write a song and a video?
How about putting a cork in the mountain so people can fly and travel wherever they want without the risk of getting killed.
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Old 06-07-2010, 03:10 AM   #145
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O C'mon dont let a piece of mountain in the distant get you off!
and besides i to had to catch a flight that was canceled,
i was actually glad cos i hate flying.

Volcanoes rock man!!
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Old 06-07-2010, 06:59 AM   #146
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ignorance is making music and shut the hell up and it's a bliss.
it would be strange if you were making music and shutting up at the same time
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Old 06-07-2010, 07:16 AM   #147
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why?
i dont hum tones in my voice.
i dont sing.
I use piano and midi keyborard controllers
guitars and bass,and bunch of VI's
and im usually alone locked in the attic ignorant and silent.
apart when the phone rings
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Old 06-10-2010, 05:55 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by semiquaver View Post
Israel is not Evil - Israel is misgoverned. The current ruling elite rules by encouraging the crazy fringe in Palestine and using the fear of those people to bring Israel down a ruinous path. Just like W did to the US for 8 years. The truth is that most PAlestinians just want to live, like anyone else - so many opportunities for peace have been passed up on both sides. One day they may make peace - it took the Irish 950 years - and South Africa a good long time - but it can happen.

my feeling: the US should impose peace - its easily done as the Isaeli are completely dependant on us. In a real way, its our problem. Our military support takes away the Israeli incentive to manage the situation intelligently.
Loud clapping, tho' he can't read this for 'muting' me. I think it's pretty brave to just state the truth AND the painfully obvious answer when you live in the US.

I applaud this guy from a country far awy, where the leaders would do well to listen to the voices of ordinary good americans rather than W and Co.
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Old 07-10-2010, 12:04 PM   #149
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmV1ffKP0ms
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Old 08-08-2010, 10:10 PM   #150
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The problem we have here, and likewise globally, is that theres just way too many assholes and dumb fucks on the planet.
I dont care where youre from or what you do, but when what you do adversely affects others then its time to work out another way of doing it or stop!

Fuck all of those that spill blood and perpetuate the cycles of madness and oppression.

Destroy all gods, burn all flags, vanish all borders.
One world, one people, one vision.

Its the only solution.

Life is too short.
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