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09-26-2016, 02:08 PM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 156
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Monitor Stands or Shelf?
I've been thinking about revamping my studio and ditching my tall rack and uncomfortable desk (which I use monitor stands with) ....for something like this.
http://www.soundconstructionsupply.c...-studio-desks/
Would there be any sonic issues/disadvantages for me if I placed the speakers on those shelves?
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09-26-2016, 02:15 PM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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I built a matching pair of 4U racks like that from an Ikea bedside table, sawed in half.
They sit on a length of kitchen counter top supported by home made wooden trestles.
But I have set the speakers on sorbethane hemispheres about 3cm in diameter for absorption of vibration.
Works great and I had room for both my sets of nearfields.
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Ici on parles Franglais
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09-27-2016, 06:41 AM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: near Memphis, TN
Posts: 531
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War,
I can't quite tell from the pics, but those NS-10's are pretty close to your head. It may be more pleasant to have speakers a bit further away from you. I'm not saying that it won't work, I'm just saying that they look to be within arm's reach. I wonder what the stereo imaging would sound like.
I do have a friend who has a setup like this. He doesn't seem to mind.
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09-27-2016, 06:57 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 6,551
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Unless the desk is ridiculously dense, having the monitors on it will create resonances that wouldn't otherwise be audible. Whether those resonances cause a problem will depend on the desk.
Monitors on separate stands is acoustically a better idea, but plenty of people have them on the desk too.
You could always look at a pair of IsoAcoustic ISOL8Rs. Tiny monitor stands that go on your desk, and they do a pretty good job of keeping speakers and desk isolated from each other.
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09-27-2016, 09:01 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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Like my sorbethane hemispheres, but ten times the price!
I actually tried a pair of the iso stands and yes they are effective but not significantly more so than my el cheapo solution in my case.
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Ici on parles Franglais
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09-27-2016, 09:31 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Norway
Posts: 7,318
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Resonance, reflections and position is the key factors here.
Could turn out well, could be mediocre.
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09-27-2016, 10:07 AM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 156
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I think that desk is a bit larger than it might come off in the pics? I was planing on getting it a bit wider also, to accommodate a larger LED monitor. Don't know if that helps? It would be about 74" wide.
Apparently, these things are build like tanks...so, I guessing that it's going to be pretty dense.(especially when filled with equipment?)
As far as "reflection"...would some of that be addressed by having the speakers as forward as possible?
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09-27-2016, 10:18 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,566
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Yes, you'd want to isolate them properly and place them as forward on the edge as possible- even the speaker front baffle affects reflections so use that as a reference of sorts. Shelf placement isn't going to be as good as free-standing mass loaded stands.
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09-27-2016, 11:50 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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Not so much. You can check where your side reflection points are with a mirror and just slap some foam absorbers on the walls. I am pretty sure Ethan Winer has a good video on his site as to how you do this, but it really is straightforward.
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Ici on parles Franglais
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09-27-2016, 11:54 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Belgium
Posts: 5,246
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Good speakers shouldn't vibrate at all. One of the things I do when listening, is putting my hand on the speaker's side to feel the vibrations. If I can feel any vibration, it's not a good speaker.
Large desks should be made from a perforated material. If not, they probably are the worst reflection in your room, especially if the monitors are close to the desk.
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In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
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09-27-2016, 03:44 PM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 4,846
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If you can get them on stands they will sound much better for a variety of reasons.
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09-27-2016, 06:07 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kalispell
Posts: 14,759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarBeer
I've been thinking about revamping my studio and ditching my tall rack and uncomfortable desk (which I use monitor stands with) ....for something like this.
http://www.soundconstructionsupply.c...-studio-desks/
Would there be any sonic issues/disadvantages for me if I placed the speakers on those shelves?
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Wow, $1,600+. Show it to your local cabinet maker, he should be able to come up with something just as good and probably less than half the price.
Or DIY, there's nothing exceptional about that stand. Those are 16 inch rack spaces, so it's about 4ft (48inches) wide. If you DIY you can customize it to your own exact needs.
I also agree, I think separate monitor stands will probably be better, if for no other reason than you can experiment in placement.
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09-27-2016, 07:43 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 156
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@Tod ...I initially thought the same thing. Well, truth is...my local woodcrafter would charge me 2x's that price! I'm not physically able to handle such a task myself...so, whatever I decide...I'm going to pay for
I have monitor stands at the present and things sound great...however, my goal here is to make more room and have a more accessible layout for myself. As is, I struggle with recording...my space is uncomfortable and uninspiring. I've got to find a balance between the rackmount gear, the computer, instrument space and "my" space
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09-28-2016, 01:52 AM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyrano
Good speakers shouldn't vibrate at all. One of the things I do when listening, is putting my hand on the speaker's side to feel the vibrations. If I can feel any vibration, it's not a good speaker.
Large desks should be made from a perforated material. If not, they probably are the worst reflection in your room, especially if the monitors are close to the desk.
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Really? My Unity Audio The Rock IIs cost me a ton of money and I can definitely feel vibration through the case, as I can with my Tannoys. You must have some amazing monitors or insensitive fingers.
And fwiw I have never even seen a desk in a studio that was made from perforated material. Do you mean like pegboard, or perforated metal? Interesting idea.
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Ici on parles Franglais
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11-01-2016, 12:29 PM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Island of Misfit Toys
Posts: 649
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My first attempt was with speakers sitting on an old school office desk with metal drawers and a filing cabinet and the whole thing rattled and resonated like a bee hive. I immediately built stands out of 4" pvc pipe glued to toilet flanges and filled with sand for $20. Use abs to pvc glue if going this route. Huge difference.
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11-01-2016, 02:56 PM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Seattle
Posts: 5,637
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarBeer
I've been thinking about revamping my studio and ditching my tall rack and uncomfortable desk (which I use monitor stands with) ....for something like this.
http://www.soundconstructionsupply.c...-studio-desks/
Would there be any sonic issues/disadvantages for me if I placed the speakers on those shelves?
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Monitors on shelves will cause the desk to reverberate as well. If you want them on the shelves, you can buy rubber isolation pads.
I'd keep them on stands, personally. Then it isn't an issue.
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11-01-2016, 03:32 PM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerome_oneil
you can buy rubber isolation pads.
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See my earlier posts about sorbethane hemispheres. Available on ebay at silly little prices and at a hifi store near you for ten times that! I will find a link and post it. They really reallly work!
Here ya go!
Posh, expensive ones from Amazon!
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sorbothane-.../dp/B003IMJ3S2
One of a zillion cheapies on ebay UK
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-x-SORBOT...YAAOxycD9TWUJj
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Ici on parles Franglais
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11-01-2016, 06:16 PM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Belgium
Posts: 5,246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc
Really? My Unity Audio The Rock IIs cost me a ton of money and I can definitely feel vibration through the case, as I can with my Tannoys. You must have some amazing monitors or insensitive fingers.
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What you feel, can also be reflections. To test this, I put one speaker on a very solid underground, like a concrete tile, or a tiled floor. The I play some music at a normal listening level. You won't feel any vibrations if these are good speaker cabinets. Try a B&W fi.
Of course, if the table these speakers are sitting on, vibrates, most of these vibrations will be conduct through the speaker cabinets.
Quote:
And fwiw I have never even seen a desk in a studio that was made from perforated material. Do you mean like pegboard, or perforated metal? Interesting idea.
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I've seen some. And I made one for a customer where it was impossible to move speakers and mixer. The wooden side panels from the mixer, combined with the table surface produced a resonance. Around 220 Hz, IIRC. Usually, you can eliminate that by moving each speaker 5 to 10 cm. In this case, the owner didn't want anything moved, because there was an expensive projector and screen and the speakers needed to be centered around it. That was a fairly complex surround setup with 4 main monitors, and another 4 only used for surround.
The product used is a metal, galvanised raster, meant for construction of terraces and also used in food production and other industrial environments. You can get it in inox and plastic too. The galvanised kind is the cheapest. It's around 200 €/sq. meter. The one I used was a leftover from a farm stable build. An example:
http://www.slipnot.com/products/grating/
It's a little bit acoustically better than your average perforated metal sheet. And it is very easy to work with, because it is very, very sturdy. For sheet metal, you need to have a frame welded. And perforated sheet metal isn't cheap either.
Another "advantage" is that you can't put a pen or a coffee cup on it
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In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
George Orwell
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11-01-2016, 06:21 PM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,551
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I went to Home Depot and bought some hollow rubber-ish tubing and cut myself sections about 3-4", 3 per speaker, tripod, to rise the speaker up from the desk. The diameter of the tubes is maybe 3-4".
Works great for me, and IIRC, cost all of $5. You can cut them longer if you want to rise the monitors up a bit, and they're sturdy enough to not wobble.
Last edited by Lawrence; 11-01-2016 at 06:34 PM.
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