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Old 06-15-2022, 02:28 AM   #1
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Default [ARCHIVED] Pro Audio on Ubuntu Setup Guide

EDIT: This guide has now been archived. Visit https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=277496 for discussion of the vanilla Arch-based guide or directly at https://github.com/chmaha/ArchProAudio.

https://github.com/chmaha/UbuntuProAudio

This should be considered a draft at the present time. If anyone wants to give it a run using a virtual machine or even a proper install, I'd be thrilled. Please pass on any and all feedback and I'll credit you in the guide.
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Last edited by chmaha; 03-25-2023 at 02:40 AM.
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Old 06-15-2022, 08:59 AM   #2
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This is a good start. Since it is a rough draft and since you are asking for constructive criticism, here are some things that I observe:

1. Maybe I'm wrong, but as I understand it, if a person is running pipewire, as long as they also have installed (and configured) the helper apps: Pipewire-pulse, Pipewire-jack, and pipewire-alsa, there is no need to ever use JACK again--Pipewire is meant to be a replacement for PulseAudio, JACK, and also meant to allow ALSA apps to run on top of it. Also, those who choose to run straight to ALSA can do so with Pipewire installed, by choosing the correct pipewire option for the connection type used. In other words, a user just wanting to run an app straight from ALSA can easily do so by choosing the Pipewire-Alsa input. I hope what I'm saying makes sense.

Also, JACK session management has been depreciated, according to FalkTX, and while the tools can still be used, the current recommended session manager for Pipewire is NSM (New Session Manager):

https://github.com/jackaudio/new-session-manager

2. Debian is a bit different than Ubuntu, even though Ubuntu is a derivative of Debian. Mint AFAIK uses mirrored repositories from Ubuntu, so what applies to Ubuntu should still apply to Mint (and most other Ubuntu derivatives). However, Debian does not include the low-latency kernel that ubuntu has in its repositories. Debian actually has a real-time kernel in its repository, but I personally think that the intended method of using run-time flags on a generic kernel or using Liquorix may be better options for Debian.

3. Depending on the version off Debian used (ie Debian 10, Debian 11, Debian Testing/Unstable), the pipewire installations are different. See:

https://wiki.debian.org/PipeWire

It may be quicker and easier for your Debian Pipewire instructions to simply point to the above link, which is kept up-to-date by the Debian team.

4. You've expressed that you feel that the generic kernel is not adequate for your purposes, but since Developers are intending the future of low latency for the masses to be done through the generic kernel and boot flags, It may be useful to at least mention it in your document.

5. Since Pipewire is meant to be the linux audio server of the future, just as I suggested above about generic kernel flags, it may be a good idea to include the recommendations that the pipewire developers give for best performance:

https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/pipew...ormance-tuning

These are the best practices that are currently recommended by the developers of the technology.

I'm sure I will think of more suggestions in the future, but I figure that this will be some good points to add for your new document.

Last edited by audiojunkie; 06-15-2022 at 09:16 AM. Reason: Edited over and over for clarity. ;)
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Old 06-15-2022, 09:15 AM   #3
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Thanks! Here are a few responses:

1. Yes, so that's why under the Jack2 + Jack D-Bus step I say to skip if you already switched to Pipewire. Is this what you mean?

2. I've added a note to the two kernel install options. Hopefully good enough for now.

For the rest, I've added links as you suggest but also kept what is there for now. I won't add anything about the generic kernel and boot flags as yet until it becomes the default way of operating (and perhaps low-latency kernels are removed from the repos etc).
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Old 06-15-2022, 09:20 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BethHarmon View Post
Thanks! Here are a few responses:

1. Yes, so that's why under the Jack2 + Jack D-Bus step I say to skip if you already switched to Pipewire. Is this what you mean?

2. I've added a note to the two kernel install options. Hopefully good enough for now.

For the rest, I've added links as you suggest but also kept what is there for now. I won't add anything about the generic kernel and boot flags as yet until it becomes the default way of operating (and perhaps low-latency kernels are removed from the repos etc).
1. That may indeed be sufficient.

2. Thanks!

Edit: I personally don't think custom low latency kernels will ever go away. I think custom kernels will always be available for those that want that extra performance at the cost of other things. I see the generic kernel as being the eventual solution for "Most" users, but there will always be those who strive for the best.
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Old 06-15-2022, 09:32 AM   #5
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Here's an additional link that might be helpful to add to your document under the Daws and plugins/Native apps section:

https://github.com/nodiscc/awesome-linuxaudio

This is the majority of known audio apps available for Debian/Ubuntu/Ubuntu-based distros.

Also, you may want to mention the kxstudio repository, where the majority of audio app binaries can be installed.
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Old 06-15-2022, 09:57 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiojunkie View Post
Here's an additional link that might be helpful to add to your document under the Daws and plugins/Native apps section:

https://github.com/nodiscc/awesome-linuxaudio

This is the majority of known audio apps available for Debian/Ubuntu/Ubuntu-based distros.

Also, you may want to mention the kxstudio repository, where the majority of audio app binaries can be installed.
Oh yes, kxstudio...how could I forget? Thanks! I'm going for a selection of plugins rather than the kitchen sink but, yes, I can consider adding the link.

EDIT: I also started the "Thanks" section from scratch (given it's a new document) and added you for links and clarifications.
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Old 06-17-2022, 07:00 AM   #7
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Anyone interested in taking vanilla Ubuntu for a spin in a VM to test the guide?
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Old 06-19-2022, 01:42 AM   #8
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Your pipewire section seems excellent. Something I've hoped would appear. Maybe that can also become a separate guide including an Arch section?
De-mystifing pipewire will be very important for musicians and audiophiles.

The rest of the guide seems very complete and accurate

Perhaps the parts around editing grub, in the cpu governor area, assume a couple more knowledge points than a new linux user, or someone new to grub, might have a grip on? Example config files have always helped me fathom
something new or complex.

Some background info regarding differences between use of dbus and jack-dbus
might help someone's logistics.

For the really really new linux users, a paragraph showing the loading of a root-owned text file from a root filemanager gui, opened using featherpad, kwrite, or gedit etc, might be closer to a windows experience.
I would rate your guide at ***** out of a possible *****.1
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Old 06-19-2022, 01:53 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4duhwinnn View Post
Your pipewire section seems excellent. Something I've hoped would appear. Maybe that can also become a separate guide including an Arch section?
De-mystifing pipewire will be very important for musicians and audiophiles.

The rest of the guide seems very complete and accurate

Perhaps the parts around editing grub, in the cpu governor area, assume a couple more knowledge points than a new linux user, or someone new to grub, might have a grip on? Example config files have always helped me fathom
something new or complex.

Some background info regarding differences between use of dbus and jack-dbus
might help someone's logistics.

For the really really new linux users, a paragraph showing the loading of a root-owned text file from a root filemanager gui, opened using featherpad, kwrite, or gedit etc, might be closer to a windows experience.
I would rate your guide at ***** out of a possible *****.1
All good points. Yes a separate guide to Pipewire sounds like something I could manage. At this point, I'm reluctant put any further time into jack-dbus etc given pipewire-jack will make it irrelevant.

I understand about the opening of root-owned text files in a root filemanager GUI but Dolphin seems to actively discourage this kind of practice with a built-in check. Downloading a second file manager or tweaking config files so Dolphin can run as root seems like more hassle than just learning to be comfortable with a cli editor such as nano.

Like it or lump it, I'm determined not to dumb Linux down. For most users, Linux will always be a happy marriage of gui and terminal and if I get people started on that road, then I can rest easy.
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Old 06-21-2022, 05:40 AM   #10
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Default repo for qpwgraph?

Hello!

Installed pipewire via the instructions, but I don't seem to have the repo for qpwgraph.

Source link below, but if you have a deb that will stay updated, that'd be better.

https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/rncbc/qpwgraph
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Old 06-21-2022, 05:49 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcoyle View Post
Hello!

Installed pipewire via the instructions, but I don't seem to have the repo for qpwgraph.

Source link below, but if you have a deb that will stay updated, that'd be better.

https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/rncbc/qpwgraph
What distro are you on?

If on Ubuntu, you could try the rncbc ppa: https://launchpad.net/~rncbc e.g:

Code:
sudo add-apt-repository ppa:rncbc/apps-jammy
sudo apt update
It looks as is qpwgraph is in Debian 12 and Ubuntu 22.10: https://repology.org/project/qpwgraph/versions

There's also a Flatpak version too but not sure if it would have access to the whole audio system.
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Old 06-21-2022, 09:53 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BethHarmon View Post
What distro are you on?

If on Ubuntu, you could try the rncbc ppa: https://launchpad.net/~rncbc e.g:

Code:
sudo add-apt-repository ppa:rncbc/apps-jammy
sudo apt update
That PPA worked. Thanks. I should have mentioned I was on Ubuntu.
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Old 06-21-2022, 10:30 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcoyle View Post
That PPA worked. Thanks. I should have mentioned I was on Ubuntu.
Great! Glad to be able to help...
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Old 07-25-2022, 06:49 AM   #14
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Updated guide to point to https://github.com/Frogging-Family/w...ine-ubuntu.yml for wine-tkg builds.
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Old 08-01-2022, 11:51 AM   #15
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Very informative and pretty complete. Thank you BethHarmon.

It's interesting when you think you know everything you should, you can still "fine tune" your knowledge even after using Linux [Debian] for 10 years. Admittedly, I haven't used it for audio for quite a while since 2012, only started last year ['21] and I was pleasantly surprised. Only the complexity of proper configuration and understanding the Linux audio system can be a bit daunting in the beginning.

Those responsible for my decision are Cockos, u-he, TAL and Audio Damage.

I still remember problems with Firefox and no PulseAudio. I always hated PA and didn't use it in the beginning. Then I just gave up. I won't blame Firefox devs because it was the only solution at the time. I hope they are preparing for transition to Pipewire. I see Debian devs are. Great!

I have high hopes for Pipewire. It should replace the dreaded PA and even make Jack obsolete. I read only good things about Pipewire and aside from being a bit fresh at the moment, I see great potential [understatement] for it to replace both PA and Jack. Although, I like good old "Jacky".

p.s. interesting we have the same number of posts - 1112, although I joined 15 years ago. wow, time flies.
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Old 08-10-2022, 03:31 AM   #16
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10/08/22: Added reference to Chow plugins (thanks bukbukXiu!)
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Old 08-11-2022, 03:19 PM   #17
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anybody got a firewire interface working with pipewire? i went through all of the setup in the guide and nothing. tried with ubuntu studio 22.04 and my focusrite pro40. had to revert until i learn more about this.

thanks,
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Old 08-12-2022, 02:24 AM   #18
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anybody got a firewire interface working with pipewire? i went through all of the setup in the guide and nothing. tried with ubuntu studio 22.04 and my focusrite pro40. had to revert until i learn more about this.

thanks,
babag
I'm not sure FFADO has been, or will be, integrated into Pipewire. Does your device not work in ALSA mode? Apparently some recent kernel updates made things a lot better.
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Old 08-12-2022, 07:14 PM   #19
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thanks for the response, beth. unfortunately, i'm terrible with this stuff. i'm not sure what this means:
Quote:
Does your device not work in ALSA mode?
what i can tell you is that ubuntu studio 22.04 apparently installs without pipewire being active. the pro40 was working fine after the initial install. after i tried switching to pipewire via the guide, i lost all sound. i did install qpwgraph. when i open it, i don't see the pro40. also, after reverting by following the guide, the pro40 is back.

thanks, both for the guide as well as for the interest,
babag
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Old 08-13-2022, 07:06 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by babag View Post
thanks for the response, beth. unfortunately, i'm terrible with this stuff. i'm not sure what this means:

what i can tell you is that ubuntu studio 22.04 apparently installs without pipewire being active. the pro40 was working fine after the initial install. after i tried switching to pipewire via the guide, i lost all sound. i did install qpwgraph. when i open it, i don't see the pro40. also, after reverting by following the guide, the pro40 is back.

thanks, both for the guide as well as for the interest,
babag
What I mean is, have you tried using REAPER or other DAW making sure the audio setting is "ALSA" and not "JACK"?:



If you can get away with just ALSA, definitely use that over JACK (or, in your case, pipewire emulating JACK).

I thought I needed JACK for one application in the past but yesterday I switched entirely to ALSA as I now just use the app's built-in audio recorder then transfer 32-bit float files to REAPER afterwards. It's so much easier than messing around with qpwgraph and making sure it remembers connections etc.
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Old 08-13-2022, 12:19 PM   #21
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thanks again, beth.

tried setting reaper to alsa and alsa doesn't seem to find the pro40. no audio. error message to the effect of device not found. the only devices it seems to see are the hdmi of the nvidia card and the built in mobo audio.

in the ubuntu studio controls, under the 'jack master settings' tab, i have this when things seem to work:

jack backend: firewire
jack sample rate: 48000
jack buffer size: 256
jack periods: 3

i tried setting the backend to dummy and to alsa. neither worked. i find the whole jack/alsa/pulse/pipewire set of relationships pretty much impenetrable. very confusing.

thanks again,
babag
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Old 08-13-2022, 03:38 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by babag View Post
thanks again, beth.

tried setting reaper to alsa and alsa doesn't seem to find the pro40. no audio. error message to the effect of device not found. the only devices it seems to see are the hdmi of the nvidia card and the built in mobo audio.

in the ubuntu studio controls, under the 'jack master settings' tab, i have this when things seem to work:

jack backend: firewire
jack sample rate: 48000
jack buffer size: 256
jack periods: 3

i tried setting the backend to dummy and to alsa. neither worked. i find the whole jack/alsa/pulse/pipewire set of relationships pretty much impenetrable. very confusing.

thanks again,
babag
Hmm, some more internet searches are telling me that perhaps you are limited to JACK + FFADO drivers (which seems like what you had going prior to pipewire). A USB interface is hopefully in your future The Behringer UMC1820 would be a worthy replacement.
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Old 08-13-2022, 04:37 PM   #23
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Quote:
i tried setting the backend to dummy and to alsa. neither worked. i find the whole jack/alsa/pulse/pipewire set of relationships pretty much impenetrable. very confusing.
The Linux audio stack isn't really any more complicated than on other OS, but unfortunately people often make it seem that way

e.g.

ALSA is the sound card driver - think ASIO on Windows. Not quite equivalent, but the same role in the audio 'stack'

JACK sits on top of ALSA and allows you to route audio between JACK compatible applications or to / from the ALSA driver. e.g.

Code:
Using JACK:

Mic->ALSA->JACK->DAW
DAW->JACK->ALSA->Speakers

or

Using ALSA directly:

Mic->ALSA->Reaper
Reaper->ALSA->Speakers
Pulse Audio - It still uses the soundcard drivers to talk to your hardware, but - think Windows multimedia sound mapper / MME, WDM, WASAPI - its not designed for pro-audio, but it will let you do things like watch youtube, play games, stream audio, have zoom calls and use your DAW with often completely unpredictable latency all at the same time (if you must).
This is the default 'sound system' on most distributions (unless you've been persuaded to rip it out and install pipewire, for $DEITY only knows what reason, but you really shouldn't do that).

PipeWire - At the present time is not for the faint hearted (or productive ) It will likely be good when its finished, but in my experience doesn't work properly or consistently well enough for pro-audio yet. If you install it and it doesn't break your audio, then an update probably will. And it will be very hard to back out of it to a working configuration again.

At the present time, to get up and running with Linux audio, with performance equivalent to e.g. ASIO on Windows, just install a stock Ubuntu LTS, install Reaper, set Reaper's audio I/O to use ALSA and you should be good to go. That literally is all you need to do.

Last edited by mike@overtonedsp; 08-13-2022 at 04:46 PM.
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Old 08-13-2022, 04:55 PM   #24
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thanks mike. very helpful!

i use this workstation for pretty much everything: firefox, media players, davinci resolve, and reaper. i'm also looking ahead and seeing things being replaced with pipewire down the road, possibly not too far down the road. i am seeing reports of things, including the pro40, working with pipewire. not sure why my current alsa isn't finding the pro40. probably firewire issue?

@bethharmon

yeah. thanks for looking into this. i've looked at the umc1820. glennbo seems quite happy with his. i just hate being told to junk a prefectly working piece of gear because somebody doesn't want to support it any more. i expect that from apple (it's one reason i left their ecosystem) but certainly not linux. maybe i should have stuck with the firepod. they broke every couple of years. that might have solved this issue.

thanks again all,
babag
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Old 08-13-2022, 05:15 PM   #25
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Quote:
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i've looked at the umc1820. glennbo seems quite happy with his. i just hate being told to junk a prefectly working piece of gear because somebody doesn't want to support it any more.
For the same reasons, I've forced Windows to install drivers for old hardware that it didn't want to install, by going full manual in the add new hardware thing in Windows.

That said, I have two perfectly good M-Audio Delta 2496 cards that I finally took out of my old i5 DAW because the Ryzen DAW I built doesn't have any PCI slots. That was when I got the UMC1820.

The old i5 machine is now in the closet of the studio acting as a MythTV server now running 24/7, so I repurposed the PC, but the audio cards not so much. I got my money's worth out of them though, only retiring them in 2021 and buying them in 2000 for $100 each.
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Old 08-13-2022, 06:05 PM   #26
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i haven't gotten nearly 20 years out of my pro40 so you're making me even more reluctant to junk it.

according to what mike says, jack sits on top of alsa. that would mean that alsa must be seeing the pro40 if i can set reaper to jack and it works properly. more evidence is that things like firefox/youtube and my media playersd all play as well. all of those play through the pro40. so, why wouldn't the pro40 show up when i set reaper directly to alsa? hmmm.

thanks,
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Old 08-13-2022, 09:14 PM   #27
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i haven't gotten nearly 20 years out of my pro40 so you're making me even more reluctant to junk it.

according to what mike says, jack sits on top of alsa. that would mean that alsa must be seeing the pro40 if i can set reaper to jack and it works properly. more evidence is that things like firefox/youtube and my media playersd all play as well. all of those play through the pro40. so, why wouldn't the pro40 show up when i set reaper directly to alsa? hmmm.

thanks,
babag
ALSA is the closest layer to the physical hardware.

Try this for fun. Open the Pulseaudio mixer and switch to the configuration tab. In there, set every device it sees to "off", reboot, and go into REAPER to see if your audio device shows up as a choice with ALSA when you click the down arrows to select an input and output device on on audio setup panel.

If it's still not available clicking the down arrows for input and output device, once you select ALSA as the audio system, then something else may be grabbing, and taking control of your audio device during the boot process.
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Old 08-13-2022, 11:09 PM   #28
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anybody got a firewire interface working with pipewire? i went through all of the setup in the guide and nothing. tried with ubuntu studio 22.04 and my focusrite pro40. had to revert until i learn more about this.

thanks,
babag
i also have a saffire pro 40. running a backup now and will be installing ubuntu studio in the very near future fingers crossed. will try to post here my success or trials. very new to linux. decent amount of windows plugs. kontakt, BFD2, izotope, omnisphere.
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Old 08-14-2022, 04:20 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by babag View Post
i just hate being told to junk a prefectly working piece of gear because somebody doesn't want to support it any more.
Ubuntu Studio 22.04 is going to be supported until april 2025. Even then, there won't be anything stopping you removing pipewire and installing jack instead from a default install. Also pipewire would have the extra years of development, it wasn't long ago I reading that pipewire wasn't going to support firewire at all, now I see that people are getting their devices working in it so things move on.

Unless there's a specific feature you feel you must have with pipewire, you're just making yourself unnecessary stress, as you say, it already works fine
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Old 08-14-2022, 08:22 AM   #30
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thanks mike. very helpful!
i just hate being told to junk a prefectly working piece of gear because somebody doesn't want to support it any more.
I'm not telling you to do anything My advice is simply carry on with your Pro 40 using JACK + FFADO drivers and when it's time to purchase a new device, I recommend going with a USB interface along the lines of the UMC1820 or 204/404HD if you can get away with fewer inputs.

It's worth bearing in mind that IEEE 1394 has been dead for about 14 years at this point. Linux, however, is the queen of supporting old hardware, so praise be.
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Last edited by chmaha; 08-14-2022 at 08:32 AM.
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Old 08-14-2022, 10:50 AM   #31
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thanks everyone. i get it about just using jack and all. what concerns me is down the road when i have to upgrade again. i'd like to be prepared with some up-front knowledge of what might go wrong. this seems like a good example and something i want to get ahead of. also, i'd just like to find out why my system is behaving differently than that of some who have managed to get the pro40 working smoothly, whether with pipewire or straight alsa.

three years of support seems like plenty of time but i've had projects that have been 20 or 30 years in the making so, things can be relative.

one thing i will say is that, after all of this tweaking, i've just reinstalled 22.04 to get a fresh start. i've kept a separate drive with my working 20.04 system on it so repeated reinstalls of the new os is my common practice. i back up my '.bash_history' file and edit it as a reference for future reinstalls going forward. the reinstall of ubuntu studio 22.04 is proving somewhat problematic in a few ways (@cporro, this is for you). it's not remembering settings and, when i log in/out, it loses the keyboard and some mouse controls, like clicks, making a hard reset necessary. it's proving to be far less smoothe than in the past for me. what started as a curiosity about pipewire is revealing far more at this point. considering trying a vanilla ubuntu install and adding kde. that's something i've done in the past with success.

thanks again,
babag

Last edited by babag; 08-14-2022 at 10:56 AM.
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Old 08-16-2022, 08:04 AM   #32
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16/08/22: Added ElephantDSP Room Reverb and Aether to plugins list
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Old 08-16-2022, 10:36 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by BethHarmon View Post
16/08/22: Added ElephantDSP Room Reverb and Aether to plugins list
do you mean this?

https://www.2caudio.com/products/aether#_overview


It's been on eof my favourites for years, that and B2. would be great if it worked under linux


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Old 08-16-2022, 11:26 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by norbury brook View Post
do you mean this?

https://www.2caudio.com/products/aether#_overview


It's been on eof my favourites for years, that and B2. would be great if it worked under linux


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That aether works under Linux (yabridged) because I have it installed myself but, no, I'm referring to https://dougal-s.github.io/Aether/ based on CloudSeed...
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Old 08-16-2022, 12:42 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by BethHarmon View Post
That aether works under Linux (yabridged) because I have it installed myself but, no, I'm referring to https://dougal-s.github.io/Aether/ based on CloudSeed...
Yeah, that one is great! I've really liked the sound from it. The only drawback is that I couldn't see an obvious place to save patches.
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Old 08-16-2022, 01:31 PM   #36
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Yeah, that one is great! I've really liked the sound from it. The only drawback is that I couldn't see an obvious place to save patches.
Save through REAPER via the little + button is your best bet in this case.
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Old 08-16-2022, 04:06 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by BethHarmon View Post
Save through REAPER via the little + button is your best bet in this case.
Yeah, you're probably right. It holds back the ability to share patches--but then again, who really keeps and uses specific presets in their work? I do think it would be nice to have a built in init patch to bring everything back after playing with all of the settings. I guess that is an easy enough of a job that Reaper's built-in save can be used.
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Old 08-16-2022, 04:24 PM   #38
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Yeah, you're probably right. It holds back the ability to share patches--but then again, who really keeps and uses specific presets in their work? I do think it would be nice to have a built in init patch to bring everything back after playing with all of the settings. I guess that is an easy enough of a job that Reaper's built-in save can be used.
And don't forget about:



as a cheap init patch!
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Old 08-16-2022, 04:26 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by BethHarmon View Post
And don't forget about:



as a cheap init patch!
Hey! I completely forgot that option existed!! Perfect for my needs!
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Old 08-16-2022, 09:58 PM   #40
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hi beth.

i'll post this in case it might be useful in the guide:

Quote:
You can use
Quote:
sudo apt-mark unhold package_name
. The package is unheld and it returns a confirmation:
Quote:
Canceled hold on package_name..
To unhold all held packages you can use
Quote:
sudo apt-mark unhold $(apt-mark showhold)
.
i'm down to the part about installing wine and yabridge, which i've never gotten to work before, and saw the bit about preventing updates to a package. in your pipewire section, you had the useful info about deactivating pipewire in case you didn't like it. i generally like to know how to get out of something before i install it on my system and found that inclusion to be very helpful.

once i got down to the wine/yabridge section, though, i saw the way to put a 'hold' on a package but noting about taking the 'hold' off, which got me curious and started me looking, hence, the post. here's the link to the post i found it in:

Code:
https://askubuntu.com/questions/164587/how-can-you-unhold-remove-a-hold-on-a-package
thanks,
babag
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