Old 01-12-2009, 07:43 PM   #81
BenK-msx
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I definately like the idea of seeing more than one plug-ins GUI in the fx chain window..

there is something that people could do re the wish to have a single window where you can see all tracks fxchains..(like the PT8 example):
I just got a dual screen setup going, using the docker permanantly in a seperate window living on screen 2, housing mixer, fx chains and midi editor etc....

I've also now set reaper to open fx chains `only in the docker`, AND "only open one fx chain at a time" ....

combine this with " show fx chain for selected track" and I now have it so by using the "select next/previous track " shortcuts i can cycle through each tracks fx chain - all in a single window/view as requested! (i.e one tab of the docker)
you can also call this up by clicking on the track you want in the track view with mouse or the fx chain button from the mixer (individual inserts cannot be opened in docker at present (odd) , its a FR)
so with 3 mapped buttons i can view next tracks chain, previous tracks chain in a consistant/uninterupted viewand. then `ctrl-m` to bring the mixer back to the docker view - i like!

so just saying you can achieve a similar thing thats been talked about with a few option tweaks, although now having the fx window docked on a widescreen monitor leaves alot of spare room in the fx chain that could indeed be filled up with the gui`s of the other fx in a chain.

on the rack view question this thread started on - maybe a `best fit` approach for whatever fxchain window size you have could look a bit better with some small label system to show the signal path.
e.g [plugin 1]>[plugin 2]>
>[plugin 3 ]>[plugin 4] etc. side by side as well as in a rack?

cheers
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Old 01-12-2009, 08:22 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenK-msx View Post
on the rack view question this thread started on - maybe a `best fit` approach for whatever fxchain window size you have could look a bit better with some small label system to show the signal path.
e.g [plugin 1]>[plugin 2]>
>[plugin 3 ]>[plugin 4] etc. side by side as well as in a rack?

cheers
I don't that would work using more than two channels on a track. Fx. how would you demonstrate a plugin that outputs on 3+4, the next plugin inputs/outputs on 1+2 and the third merges 1+2+3+4 to 1+2?
If you could do a quick mockup, maybe that would help
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Old 01-12-2009, 08:44 PM   #83
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eek! - i just threw that in there as i was finishing off .. well.. i dont see why you couldnt maybe arrange the guis how you wish in whatever window space you have, and as we have now if you need to know the routing of each you click a small `show me the routing for this plug` button to reveal that.
keeping the side bar as it is now - the signal order neednt be labelled at all thinking about it - its a bit like filling/arranging your screen with floating plugin guis (like i did in cubase/nuendo) whilst having a list of what does what and where in constant view.
it's just this `screen` is the fx window or in my case the docker.
whatever plug you're working on would highlight that plugin name in the sidebar as we have now to help.
basically like your last mockup but e.g if the fx window is wide like in docked situation on a widescreen monitor, all the space is filled with gui`s.

adding an angle on the already good idea. top to bottom is still better than now!
----

uh did my tip for having all fx chains in one window make sense? hope its of use to someone,I got it going today and was quite pleased!

Edit - have included a wonderfully detailed mockup showing the general idea.. for your amusement if nothing else.
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Old 02-17-2009, 05:15 PM   #84
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+1 for "Track menu" in the FX rack (to quickly toggle between tracks like in ProTools)

+1 for "Folder Slots" in the FX rack (where you can drag&drop plugins just like it works with folder tracks)

+1 for multiple plugin GUIs displayed at once
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Old 04-14-2009, 03:16 AM   #85
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+1

and I had a FR myself a couple of minutes ago, which was a variation. Basically rackview but with the ability to, when floating vst's, make a selected few be "glued" to one another. Maybe someone intelligent can combine this idea with the RackView?
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Old 04-14-2009, 03:45 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by ed209 View Post
+1

and I had a FR myself a couple of minutes ago, which was a variation. Basically rackview but with the ability to, when floating vst's, make a selected few be "glued" to one another. Maybe someone intelligent can combine this idea with the RackView?
Great Idea!
+1
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Old 04-14-2009, 04:04 AM   #87
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A big bump.

I just started a thread with the same basic idea. DarkStar pointed me here.
http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...48&postcount=1

The way I'm imagining it, these wouldn't just be static thumbnails, but fully functional interfaces, if possible and if necessary, in miniature.

There's the question of how to accommodate plugs with different sizes. But maybe they don't need to be perfectly even, especially of they can somehow be resized and remain functional. Resizing isn't necessary, but would be nice for a compact overview of the chain.

What really interests me is the functionality. Static graphics would be nice, but not really that big a deal, IMV.

The idea is to have as much info AND functionality in as little space as practical. Easy legibility is critical.

Here's a link to the full size version of the quick mockup below. I did 3 across, on an assumption that they could be resized. That does make them on the small side though. It assumes reading L to R, top to bottom.

https://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/487201/master-fx-chain.jpg


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Old 04-14-2009, 05:11 AM   #88
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Marah Mag, I'm sorry your idea gets a "no thanks" from me.

I think the FX window needs a complete overhaul but IMO that's not the way to do it.

I think the FX window shoud decrease in size NOT increase. It already takes too much screen space. Your mock makes the FX chain list not dispensable and so I'm against that. Also FX appearing in sort of thumbnails, no please. Let's keep them with their aspect ratio intact.

Cybolic's mock is more likely the best way forward.
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Old 04-14-2009, 09:20 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoffeeMilkshake View Post
Marah Mag, I'm sorry your idea gets a "no thanks" from me.
Well excuuuuuse me! That's OK. It was just a fast first pass at an idea I didn't know was already being kicked around at the time I did it.

I'm glad the idea is getting some attention. I think it's a good one. Hope to see some adoption before too long.
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Old 04-15-2009, 02:53 AM   #90
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There are some things to talk about here.

Say you want the preset dropdowns that only show up on the FX chain window, to show up on every plugin in such an extended view. That will get rather large quickly.




Then there's the possibility of removing that preset dropdown for all but the topmost plugin, and perhaps it could dynamically change position to the plugin your mouse is over.



Of course you could have Reaper use the screen space as much as possible, and spread them out in a different fashion. Rules could be applied, such as "If the plugin window does not fit in a second column, keep the FX Chain window one-column but scrollable" and so forth.

Two column, two row view, full size with preset view on every plugin.

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Old 04-15-2009, 03:00 AM   #91
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There are more ways of organizing plugins efficiently as well.

Right now we can call up plugins from the MCP inserts with a single click, which opens to the plugin window minus the Reaper preset dropdown menu. Then we can CTRL+click on the plugins to open the FX Chain view.

Reaper does save all the plugin window positions once they've been moved once.

So what about a modifier combo that opens ALL plugins in their own little window, as a single click would ? The default it to stagger them, and from thereon the user can rearrange their position and use the same modifier plus click combo to close all plugin windows again.

The modifier not taken is CTRL+ALT. The same could apply to clicking on the FX button on either the TCP or MCP.

What do you think ?
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Old 04-15-2009, 03:28 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airon View Post

That will get rather large quickly.
That's the main reason I was thinking it might work where, in this rack view, the FX windows were not full size, were scaled proportionately (say 50 to 75 pct), and still remained functional. I don't if that's possible or feasible. But if it is, and given that the full size "floater" would be just a double click away, I can imagine a well designed scaled system working out. (I wouldn't want to set up POD tones or program a sampler at 66%, but I could certainly deal with a minor ReaComp tweak -- while still being able to see and tweak other similarly clean-design devices.)

Is the idea simply to produce a "rack" of FX, or to maximize access in minimal space?

On the one hand, I would like having a single scrollable rack window with full size fx, with either one or two columns.

On the other hand, if I want to simultaneously see the first and the last of 4 or 5 (or more) stacked, full size fx, I would either have to 1) scroll, 2) collapse the intermediates (how quick and low-click can that be?) or 3) float the ones I want to see, which is sort of what we have today -- open floaters and perhaps an FX window open behind them.

And yes, the preset dropdowns are an issue. Except for initial setup and irregular saving, they're not touched all that often. Perhaps a button on each "racked" fx could invoke that plug's preset fields....?

I also think that this issue is related, if indirectly, to how Reaper doesn't allow for rotating through open windows, eg, with Ctrl-F6, on Windows, or even its own system (I don't believe there's an action for that.) Even with large or dual monitors, the main R window gets buried under the subs. This makes the clutter of floating windows worse, and makes the need for a rack or SOME kind of organizing scheme all the more pressing. Not to sidetrack the discussion, but the two do impact each other.
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Old 04-15-2009, 03:41 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airon View Post
There are some things to talk about here.

Two column, two row view, full size with preset view on every plugin.

[pic omitted]
Ya, that (the last mock in your previous post) is what I was going for in my mock, only I was seeing it as scaled, to avoid bulkiness and obstruction.

Let's not forget, while using the "rack" metaphor, that real racks are heavy and bulky and take up room and can be a pain to deal with.

What would really rock is if the fully functional plugin windows could be dynamically resized based on the width/height of the FX Chain window, perhaps with rows that wrapped. Maybe with the ability to have the plugs zoom to full size (via modified click), and then zoom back down again when focus was lost, the same way the IO and env dialogs optionally close when not focused. How Reapery!

That could put your entire chain right in front of you at whatever size suited the moment.
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Old 04-15-2009, 04:05 AM   #94
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You can pretty much scratch the idea of having a 50% view of plugins. They all render themselves and by many different methods too. Never mind the performance hit you'd get from re-rendering effects views that animate. Then the visual feedback of most plugins would be ruined as well. Blur is pretty much what you'd get, so let talk about alternate methods.

First of all there is an action to open the FX chain view, but the same action does not close it. We do have this logic for the FX button and the MCP insert buttons.

Then, as the FX Chain window is opened, you have access to all the other fx with the cursor keys. So far so good.

Then there's keeping multiple plugin windows open, and of course closing them again. That's what the idea in my last post is for.

Let's see what's missing to make the path of opening/closing stuff really fast apart from what was already mentioned. I realize I'm not braking new ground here, but we may be able to work with what we've got.

There is no command to select a track underneath the mouse cursor, outside the arrangement view. You can click on the FX button or MCP inserts, yet just hovering over a track and hitting a key that fires off a macro that says "Select track under mouse cursor, toggle-open/close FX Chain window for selected track" may be a good idea. But what do you do to close it ? Your mouse cursor is bound to be either above the same track(just peeking at the fx) or above one of the plugin controls, most likely. Well, Reaper would have to ignore the "Select track under mouse cursor" command because it isn't above any track or mixer control panel, or the arrangement view. The toggle-open/close command would take care of the rest.

On top of that, there's extending the FX Chain window.
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Old 04-15-2009, 05:27 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airon View Post
You can pretty much scratch the idea of having a 50% view of plugins. They all render themselves and by many different methods too. Never mind the performance hit you'd get from re-rendering effects views that animate. Then the visual feedback of most plugins would be ruined as well. Blur is pretty much what you'd get, so let talk about alternate methods.
I kind of figured that would be the case. I can dream, though.

Quote:
First of all there is an action to open the FX chain view, but the same action does not close it. We do have this logic for the FX button and the MCP insert buttons.
I agree. There needs to be good consistency in these actions. Buttons of a like kind should operate in like ways. (I think I posted an FR about this a while back.)

Quote:
But what do you do to close it ?
I could be missing something, but closing the FX chain view doesn't seem a big issue. Currently it closes with the esc key, as do most other windows (which can be a problem, if you can too easily close a window that you're not done with... but that's another issue.)

I've often thought it would be good if the FX view, and other floating FX windows, had a "close" button on the left side of their title bar. There's currently nothing there.

When I want to close one of these windows, and it's upper right is behind another window, and I don't feel like reaching for escape, I find myself instinctively mousing to its upper left for a quick double click to close. But if I double click there, the window maxes, which isn't fun. I've kind of learned not to click there, but I still *want* to. The way it works now, if the upper right is hidden, you need to click or drag something to reveal the close button.

An upper left close button would be a simple but nice enhancement, doubling closing options via mouse.

Quote:
On top of that, there's extending the FX Chain window.
Yeah....
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Old 04-20-2009, 03:23 PM   #96
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When I read the title of this thread, this came to mind...

http://www.cakewalk.com/images/SONAR8/S8_synthrack.jpg

You are discussing about viewing multiple plugins (for a single track), on a single page. If the rack view was handled by Reaper's UI exclusively (like Sonar does in the screenshot), it could look good.

I would also like (adding to the original FR) an external FX rack component that will list all plugins, for the whole project (which is the true purpose of the screenshot). A global FX rack, switchable to FX only/Instruments only/both. An alternative view showing what exists in your project in terms of plugins, gathered in a single window. And allowing quick editing/showing of the UI. So if I have say several VSTi spread over 10s of tracks in a project, I can now have them all available in a single view.
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Old 05-07-2009, 04:49 AM   #97
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++ 1

I am seriously considering the addition of a third monitor and this is the perfect example of why. Hopefully, my setup will be something like:


Tracks Monitor..............Mixer Monitor...........FX/Plugins Monitor (with "rack view")


Maybe different locations, but these views on each monitor.

Rack view? yup, yup, yup


cliff
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Old 05-07-2009, 06:50 AM   #98
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i can haz rack view plz? ok thx. bai.




















+1
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Old 08-15-2009, 06:12 PM   #99
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i thought i just came up with this as an FR today on my own... very glad other people want this too! this would be incredibly useful, regardless of the specifics of the implementation, for my mixing work flow.
+1

perhaps these FX "racks" could take advantage of check boxes similar to those in the extended mixer views and therefore retrievable under window and screen sets. i.e. "display multiple rows of fx when room", "display list of fx on left", "display i/0 for fx", "display native gui only"
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Old 08-15-2009, 06:22 PM   #100
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What about an "FXs I/O View"? Actually is not so easy to check how the various FXs are linked together in the various subchannels of the track.
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Old 10-11-2009, 01:21 PM   #101
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+1 from me too, this would be so nice.
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Old 10-11-2009, 01:53 PM   #102
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Would be lovely to have all VST in a single window, without having to manipulate them all one by one.

Was thinking about that before.

+1 !
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Old 10-11-2009, 02:54 PM   #103
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Very interesting. +1 from me.
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Old 10-11-2009, 09:52 PM   #104
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+1. very handy.
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Old 04-01-2010, 11:01 PM   #105
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What's the status with this?
I can't find any thread for fx rack view in "track bugs/feature requests".
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Old 12-23-2010, 12:03 AM   #106
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bump!?

what's going on with this?
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Old 12-23-2010, 01:15 AM   #107
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yep lets have this in time for V4 please
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Old 12-23-2010, 11:37 AM   #108
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+1 where can I vote?
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Old 12-23-2010, 01:50 PM   #109
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- 1

Surely we should focus on basics first? I think the way we have to choose fx is already a bit of a pain. How about clicking an insert slot and seeing a dropdown menu with fx sorted by manufacturer?

The reason fx rack style approach is nice I guess, but I want reaper to go down the professional approach and de-throne PT and logic...not add gimmicks. Unfortunately, I think I'm in a minority!!
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Old 12-23-2010, 10:56 PM   #110
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I don't think the fx rack view would be a gimmick, it would speed things up a lot and tweaking fx would be so simple.

and I'm fine with the way fx are inserted. Did you try right clicking on the fx button to add fx?
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Old 12-24-2010, 04:31 AM   #111
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-1

Don't care for that one bit. So I'd have to live with a gigantic FX window while tweaking a small gui'ed compressor because there's a big gui synth in the chain somewhere? Sorry, but that's an awful idea. Heck, it'd be enough to make me change DAW software. Just awful.
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Old 12-24-2010, 10:05 AM   #112
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Quote:
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I don't think the fx rack view would be a gimmick, it would speed things up a lot and tweaking fx would be so simple.

and I'm fine with the way fx are inserted. Did you try right clicking on the fx button to add fx?
Right clicking just brings up the 'recently used' option. Its not the same thing as having a list the way PT, logic, digital performer, cubase and many many others does.

If choosing an fx in logic and PT required opening a new window, user's would winge endlessly. It's messy, long winded and at times, jarring to the workflow. It is better to nail the basics first, and use that as a foundation to build upon. Rather than throw in endless features and then somehow try to organize it. Juts my opinion on it. So again...

-1
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Old 12-24-2010, 10:09 AM   #113
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suggest left to right rather than top to bottom, no need to emulate hardware, and monitors are wider than tall.

plus multiple rows, like text, make a lot more intuitive sense that mutiple comlums, right?
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Old 12-26-2010, 10:55 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_spine View Post
Right clicking just brings up the 'recently used' option. Its not the same thing as having a list the way PT, logic, digital performer, cubase and many many others does.

If choosing an fx in logic and PT required opening a new window, user's would winge endlessly. It's messy, long winded and at times, jarring to the workflow. It is better to nail the basics first, and use that as a foundation to build upon. Rather than throw in endless features and then somehow try to organize it. Juts my opinion on it. So again...

-1
if you create folders in your fx browser and put fx into them when you right click the fx button you can access the folders you created
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Old 12-29-2010, 01:13 PM   #115
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if you create folders in your fx browser and put fx into them when you right click the fx button you can access the folders you created
I know. I don't think I should have to do it this way in a modern DAW. And by habit, I always hit the Left mouse button. A drop down menu should be the default action, so it should be on the left button.

The current method is like telling word processor users "The return key brings up a window asking if you would like to skip to the next line, and in what manner. For power users, you may create a script within the options, allowing you to create a new line by holding shift+return".

I do believe that there are some basic DAW rules that nearly all developers adhere to because it is an undoubted standard method. This is one example. Another is the selection of inputs and outputs. Whoops! Stay on topic.
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Old 12-29-2010, 03:41 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_spine View Post
I know. I don't think I should have to do it this way in a modern DAW. And by habit, I always hit the Left mouse button. A drop down menu should be the default action, so it should be on the left button.

The current method is like telling word processor users "The return key brings up a window asking if you would like to skip to the next line, and in what manner. For power users, you may create a script within the options, allowing you to create a new line by holding shift+return".

I do believe that there are some basic DAW rules that nearly all developers adhere to because it is an undoubted standard method. This is one example. Another is the selection of inputs and outputs. Whoops! Stay on topic.
No no no no, I've always hated the way other DAWs present plugins since I have far too many to properly display them in a menu.

In CuBase I had to manually place every plugin file in a folder matching how I wanted my menu to appear so I at least had a chance of finding it again - in Reaper I can do that (if I want) in the program from a pretty comfortable interface, and when I click the FX button a nice big area in the dock switches to show all my effects instead of having me hunting through endless scrolling menus to get to them.

If you don't like the popup window, then just dock it.
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Old 12-29-2010, 06:50 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by Cybolic View Post
No no no no, I've always hated the way other DAWs present plugins since I have far too many to properly display them in a menu.

In CuBase I had to manually place every plugin file in a folder matching how I wanted my menu to appear so I at least had a chance of finding it again - in Reaper I can do that (if I want) in the program from a pretty comfortable interface, and when I click the FX button a nice big area in the dock switches to show all my effects instead of having me hunting through endless scrolling menus to get to them.

If you don't like the popup window, then just dock it.
It can all remain customizable. Just make the drop down menu method the main option with left click. And right click brings up the pop up window. Best of both worlds.
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Old 12-29-2010, 10:46 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by mr_spine View Post
It can all remain customizable. Just make the drop down menu method the main option with left click. And right click brings up the pop up window. Best of both worlds.
Well in the meantime, you can just adapt to the way it is done no?
I mean there was stuff that I found annoying to do in reaper, but now that I've learn to do things the reaper way, I'm fine and happy
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Old 12-30-2010, 02:01 AM   #119
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+1

I might add that the whole rack thing could be extended with "virtual racks". Let's say I'd like to make a rack that displays all the compressors of my project. I could open a virtual rack placeholder, make a search on all opened plugins, select all the compressors and add it to my rack.
I'd have a nice summary of what's going on in my project compression related...
Same example with my 3 guitar amps in my project. I could have a rack holding all three amps of the 3 guitars (on 3 different tracks, of course).

What do you think ?
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Old 03-29-2012, 04:44 PM   #120
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is the voting over ?!?!?!?!?

A plug-in RACK would be very useful !

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