Auto-Crossfades in Takes Mode (not working as Described)

explodingPSYCH · 09-03-2019, 01:51 PM

I am posting this issue here, as it may be a simple bug based on the language of the menues and descriptions:

REPRODUCING THE BUG:

In Takes mode, select "Overlap and crossfade items when splitting" in the Default Media Items Preference menu.

Record a media item over another media item. No crossfade will be made. It appears as though it is either not "splitting" the item as described, or the split is not "calling/referencing" the function in the Default Media Items Preference menu.

EXPECTATION:

Based on the description of Takes mode (Under Options> New Recording That Overlaps)
the new recording should "split existing media item..." and create a new take. This is also how TAPE recording mode behaves.

Cross posted to Feature Requests Here: (with references to older features requests and posts dating back to 2008)
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....87#post2177687

explodingPSYCH · 09-06-2019, 09:13 AM

Anyone else see this as a bug in the code and not just a feature request, given the language in the Options menu vs the Preference menu?

karbomusic · 09-06-2019, 10:00 AM

I've seen your various posts on this and I never answer because I don't understand the issue and/or have any problem that I've specifically noticed - Big picture tells me you do an overdub (or possibly a manual split) and it doesn't crossfade but I don't even have that overlap option set and an overdub (or manual split) crossfades automatically - Here I recorded over the original take and it crossfaded:

I'm certain mine cross-faded because the option above it is checked "create automatic fade... for new items". I don't have much time to test just wanted to chime in.

Thonex · 09-06-2019, 10:21 AM

I'm not getting x-fades on punch-in. I'm getting fade-out -> fade-in like what you are describing.

But where is this "Overlap and crossfade items when splitting" in the Default Media Items Preference menu you talk about?

I can't seem to find it. I may not have the prefs set like you.

karbomusic · 09-06-2019, 10:37 AM

ah... xfade vs fade-in/out - I suppose I don't notice because it doesn't affect me in my work for whatever reason.

Thonex · 09-06-2019, 10:56 AM

Yeah..... so this is not a bug.... As far as I can see.... it fades in and out.... not x-fade..

But I would like a FR of x-fading in on punch-in when possible (if there is audio beneath the punching (which is 99% of the time).

Tone Ranger · 09-06-2019, 12:06 PM

Agreed, have noticed this as well - it also happens when moving things around during editing. Would prefer a crossfade to fade in/out. The fade in/out leaves a noticeable dropout on some types of sounds.

explodingPSYCH · 09-07-2019, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thonex

I'm not getting x-fades on punch-in. I'm getting fade-out -> fade-in like what you are describing.

But where is this "Overlap and crossfade items when splitting" in the Default Media Items Preference menu you talk about?

I can't seem to find it. I may not have the prefs set like you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thonex

Yeah..... so this is not a bug.... As far as I can see.... it fades in and out.... not x-fade..

I'm aware of the fade in/out feature. Great for beginning/ends of media items. I'm trying to get auto-crossfades to work as they seem like they should based on the language in the menus.

If you look, these two instances of "splitting" do not seem to be working together. Takes mode should be creating a split, and a crossfade should be created when a split is created. But split =/= split in this context, so... bug?

explodingPSYCH · 09-07-2019, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karbomusic

ah... xfade vs fade-in/out - I suppose I don't notice because it doesn't affect me in my work for whatever reason.

Yeah, I've noticed many people don't seem to be concerned about the issue and that's great. However the lack of crossfades in takes mode causes a problem for myself and others(see links below to posts going back to 2008 asking for this request). If someone doesn't want the auto crossfades, they can disable it in the menu check box I linked in my above post. I would guess that if they were in place in your work flow, it wouldn't bother you (and might help you in corner cases), and it would help me. If not a "win/win", at least a "win/not-lose".

A simple example of why this is useful is illustrated below: In this example there is an audible drop out, where a crossfade would be smooth. There are many other types of audio that fade in/outs interrupt in an unpleasant manner. Think: room noise, amp/tape hiss, breaths on vocal takes, etc.

Links to others requesting this feature:

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....ight=crossfade

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....auto+crossfade

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=178463

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=70418

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?p=716419

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=28901

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=194722

https://www.reddit.com/r/Reaper/comm...nch_recording/

karbomusic · 09-07-2019, 12:48 PM

I'm curious as to why I never have the drop outs like that - maybe it's we just record different things under different circumstances. I'm not dissing your request as I wouldn't mind it x-fading, it's just interesting that its' rare for me and a 10 second fix if it does occur, and I don't remember doing it. I do have a faint memory of testing this years ago on cymbal fades but it didn't drop out so I never really worried about it again.

Actually, if a different take of a cymbal, I'd probably hear it (so maybe that's it) and adjust but I figured that always took a manual x-fade anyway because a single x-fade doesn't fix all sources. Don't mind having the feature though.

explodingPSYCH · 09-07-2019, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karbomusic

I'm curious as to why I never have the drop outs like that - maybe it's we just record different things under different circumstances. I'm not dissing your request as I wouldn't mind it x-fading, it's just interesting that its' rare for me and a 10 second fix if it does occur, and I don't remember doing it. I do have a faint memory of testing this years ago on cymbal fades but it didn't drop out so I never really worried about it again.

Actually, if a different take of a cymbal, I'd probably hear it (so maybe that's it) and adjust but I figured that always took a manual x-fade anyway because a single x-fade doesn't fix all sources. Don't mind having the feature though.

Yeah, you're not wrong that there are situations where this doesn't matter as much. For example, for whatever reason a lot of distorted guitar stuff and certain types of more percussive instruments (say a staccato electronic piano) can get away with fade in/outs.

Where I notice it most in my own work flow is when I'm doing a lot of vocal punches and it's making T's, Esses and breathes sound unnatural. The additional steps of having to create the fades can be pretty intensive across and entire record of vocal takes. I've also had issues with fade in/outs on lower frequency instruments like bass guitar and kick drum. Not so much an issue with overheads. And of course I have issues when doing anything sustained that I want to do a quick punch in on. Strings, synths, organ, etc. It wouldn't solve all of the issues involved with punches and comping, but it would certainly save a step that I end up spending a lot of time on.

And most relevant to this forum, I think it might genuinely be a bug in how the "split" is working in takes mode when it's created via an overlap while recording (manual splits still create crossfades).

explodingPSYCH · 09-27-2019, 09:48 AM

An update to further illustrate the issue. The auto-crossfade check box does nothing in Takes Mode! (Only Fade in/out works.)

Seems as though the crossfade action or the split action is not properly being applied!

explodingPSYCH · 11-07-2019, 11:01 AM

Bug? Feature Request? Either way, can we please have this implemented finally?