Should I buy a PC instead ?

mio*star · 08-12-2008, 03:15 PM

Well, I tried to work on a project today on the v.2.44 and I had to stop after a few random crashes, blue screens, rough quits etc.

...

Will a real Reaper for OSX see the light anyday ?

Booting the ugly windows under bootcamp and double-installing/re-authorizing all plugs and VIs is a PITA.

Maybe I should consider buying a PC in the meantime ?

mio*star

larrygates · 08-12-2008, 03:16 PM

Yes you should buy a PC.

I switched from Strict Macs / Back to PC. Much better mixing options, less creative options.

BaronStinky · 08-12-2008, 03:26 PM

It's in beta for a reason. All we're doing right now is making it crash and telling the Cockos boys what's up. I have faith that the actual release will be just as rock-solid as the PC version, but it will still be some time before that happens. That's why I have a PC and a mac, but obviously that's not a viable option for everyone. I would, under no circumstances, work on a project that matters to your time/money with the mac beta, but it's fun seeing how far the port has come if you have the time and patience.

Sonic Vampire · 08-12-2008, 03:27 PM

I loved macs but have been stuck in PC world for while now. With what I can get for PC compared to mac, I wont be going back in hurry

semiquaver · 08-13-2008, 08:16 AM

just a couple of versions ago was pretty darn stable as I recall - patience!

mio*star · 08-15-2008, 08:22 AM

OK, thanx for your advice.

I will continue working and testing on my Mac under WIndows for the moment.
Let's see how things evolve.

Reaper + classy Macs = best of both worlds !

mio*star · 09-03-2008, 06:28 AM

... the Justin crew is working hard to catch up with the MacOSX versions.

I just don't know how much of the PC features are implemented in the Mac version ?

semiquaver · 09-03-2008, 07:29 AM

almost everything is implemented on mac - the only thing I have seen missing is video support.

mio*star · 09-03-2008, 07:36 AM

OK

is midi import implemented (sorry I am quite new to the midi side of Reaper) ?

I am right now trying to import a MIDI 1 file from a DP session and Reaper refuses to do it.

brice · 09-03-2008, 12:35 PM

you get "blue screens" on a mac or do you mean KP?

Tonehenge · 09-04-2008, 12:13 AM

I just did a whole tracking session for a client in Mac Reaper 2.46 Beta...not a hiccup....

Macbook, C2D 2.4ghz, 4 gig memory, Leopard...

mio*star · 09-04-2008, 08:09 AM

I get blue screens now and then when running Windows Trust under Leopard on a MacPro.

But I am working with max quality render / playback ... maybe it is just too much realtime calculation.

mio*star · 09-04-2008, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonehenge

I just did a whole tracking session for a client in Mac Reaper 2.46 Beta...not a hiccup....

Macbook, C2D 2.4ghz, 4 gig memory, Leopard...

Good news !

How many simultaneous tracks or recording/playback ?

My last mix with approx 40-45 (mainly stereo) tracks was too much for the Mac version at that time (first beta, as far as I remember).

Probably the new 2.46 is a whole new beast ?

Amberience · 09-04-2008, 08:59 AM

What the hell is Windows Trust?

mio*star · 09-04-2008, 12:06 PM

A few french guys released a non-official Windows that is supposed to be cleaner than the normal version and lighter (without all these small apps and functions running in the background).

Coming from the Mac world, I was advised to go that way rather than deal with Windows issues.

You guys are all using WinXP and sleep OK ?

bennals · 09-04-2008, 02:50 PM

I'm finding that the 2.46 build is becoming more stable over time. Not sure how that works, but when I first started using it I was getting fairly regular crashes, particularly when 'Undoing' stuff. Now they hardly ever happen. Last night, for example, I was working on a predominantly midi based project with Reason rewired (18 tracks), five VIs (U-He Zebra2, the free Kore Player) and a bunch of plug-ins (JS, Fabfilter AU, Audiodamge VSTs, Cockos VSTs, Tritonedigital pluggo wrapped VSTs, DDMF AU, MDA vocoder VST). Five hour session with just one unexpected quit and that was when I got a bit carried away with a rapid sequence of undos without stopping the transport. Fired up the backup and was running again in 30 seconds having lost about 1 minutes worth of work.

In my view, it's already pretty stable. You just have to feel your way and figure out which plug-in/feature comibinations are solid and which aren't and that's the case with pretty much any DAW. It certainly is for DP (which I come from) and that's been around for 15 odd years.

And as Baron Stinky stated, we are still in BETA.

Bill.

Tonehenge · 09-04-2008, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mio*star

Good news !

How many simultaneous tracks or recording/playback ?

My last mix with approx 40-45 (mainly stereo) tracks was too much for the Mac version at that time (first beta, as far as I remember).

Probably the new 2.46 is a whole new beast ?

Honestly...a light load with the M-Audio Profire 2626...two tracks recording, two tracks playing back. The thing just "felt" solid. I will perform a stress test when I have some time, and I will report...
FYI, you were running the equivalent of 80 to 90 mono tracks...a tough load for most any computer, regardless of OS!

mio*star · 09-05-2008, 01:28 AM

Yes, that project was a bit crowdy.

On top of that, the client wanted a radio edit, so I had fades on all tracks at the same time + ReaInserts on 4 channels ... + everything was read at max quality ... in 24 bits - 88.2 khz.

But, that should be possible.
I often get a high track count when working on a well produced pop-rock album with tons of guitars and reamping tracks and stuff ... add to this all the "ghost" tracks (vocoder, background fx etc.) and you end up with the equivalent of nearly 100 mono tracks (including FX, subgroups, etc.)

I hope Reaper uses my 4 core well ...

Klemperer · 09-05-2008, 06:36 AM

I'm using WinXP and sleep really okay

. But I cut the processes running in the background, to be frank. ( if someone didn't do that it was not *that* much of a problem with nowadays PCs now, and even Vista runs perfect here).
In Germany, by the way, you'd NEVER ever get the advice to buy a PC instead. It's a matter of "style" in our country, and surrounded by bloated snobism. I'd say stick with your mac, and rest assured that Reaper will run very very stable on all platforms, like it does in the Windows world yet, pretty soon. Cheers!
I, by the way, might give Linux a try in the near future.

simpsongb · 09-16-2008, 06:29 AM

Stick with the Mac. Buy VMWare Fusion for $80. Run Windows XP in a virtual machine, and then run Reaper there.......Fusion will even let you run Reaper without launching WIndows...it runs the WIndows components in the background. Fusion will also use all of the CPUs in the Mac, presuming you have a newer Core Duo or better......

Then you can run the PC version of Reaper, if you must...and still have your Mac...

Bebop52 · 09-16-2008, 09:12 AM

Buy a pc for sure. Reaper works great on this cheap Dell dual core.

moon · 09-16-2008, 09:51 AM

Quote:

You guys are all using WinXP and sleep OK ?

No. Windows 2000 Pro was the last version that didn't include Bill Gates in a policeman's hat. Actually, you can get 2K Pro for nothing these days and it runs most existing audio apps really well. I've been running SONAR Studio 6 with no problems, and nothing sneaky going on in the background.

Startup Monitor is a nice little guy to have on your side;

http://www.mlin.net/StartupMonitor.shtml

I feel Linux is really the way to go, if only I could shake this lethargy.......

labyrinth · 09-16-2008, 10:31 AM

I have high hopes that when the new Windows ("Windows 7") is available that it will prove to be the new improved XP, like Vista was supposed to be. It is really a preference between PC and Mac for people, but if REAPER is what sways you, don't let it. REAPER will soon be exactly the same on both systems!

BoxOfSnoo · 09-16-2008, 12:20 PM

The idea of activation killed Windows for me. It's a slow process, but I'm moving to Mac full time this year. Windows will always have a place, both virtually and natively here and there for games, but I'm not going to depend on it anymore.

Linux always presents a struggle that I shouldn't have to go through.

mio*star · 09-16-2008, 03:30 PM

Thanx guys.

Fusion :
I tried that way but the drivers management was not convincing. Has anyone experienced the same ?

PC :
I would love to stick with my Mac but 2 things make me think twice :

1. Reaper seems to be always a step further on PC - especially with these little genius creating free add-ons that are so useful.

2. I recently tried the am-munition plug-ins by Magix and they are the first hardware compressors that really caught my attention and prevented me from going back to my hardware.
These plug-ins are PC only and Magix does not intend to release Mac versions (I asked them)...

I am currently trying to run Reaper on Mac OSX and the latest version seems usable and even pretty stable.
If I have to switch to PC (even only because of these plugs), I know I would miss the user-friendlyness and the simple and elegant way a Mac works.

... still dunno.

I have to try these plugs again and decide if they are worth switching to PC or not.

larrygates · 09-16-2008, 03:43 PM

Dunno about the elegance part. As I said I used and owned about 7 macs. From the G3 up to the MacBook Pro. OS 8 to Leopard. Just so you know I'm a serious Mac user.

Aside from navigation on the OS, there really isn't a HUGE difference to me. One problem with my Macs is it's SO hard to actually FIND a file sometimes. Of course I use spotlight, but I find the run command (run prompt) SUPER easy for getting exactly where I want to be.

All OS's suffer from drives getting old, worked, etc . . . But, if you're a Logic User, you may want to Stay on the Mac (seriously). I have such a Retardedly good work flow on Logic 7 / 8, that I can pretty much produce a song from start to final mix without any external devices. (Minus mics).

What I'd do, if I were you, is keep your macs for sure, save money and get a great mac, if you don't have a Mac Pro already or whatever (or wait for Octo-Cores) and get a 600 dollar PC. I'm sure you could get an Intel Q 6600 based system for around that price. From there you can go to town. But you will need an interface for the PC though, as on board sound is NOTHING like Mac's onboard sound drivers. I can run full mixes on my laptop with no Interface on my MacBook Pro. Not Even Close on my Quad Core PC with onboard sound.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mio*star

Thanx guys.

Fusion :
I tried that way but the drivers management was not convincing. Has anyone experienced the same ?

PC :
I would love to stick with my Mac but 2 things make me think twice :

1. Reaper seems to be always a step further on PC - especially with these little genius creating free add-ons that are so useful.

2. I recently tried the am-munition plug-ins by Magix and they are the first hardware compressors that really caught my attention and prevented me from going back to my hardware.
These plug-ins are PC only and Magix does not intend to release Mac versions (I asked them)...

I am currently trying to run Reaper on Mac OSX and the latest version seems usable and even pretty stable.
If I have to switch to PC (even only because of these plugs), I know I would miss the user-friendlyness and the simple and elegant way a Mac works.

... still dunno.

I have to try these plugs again and decide if they are worth switching to PC or not.

mio*star · 09-16-2008, 03:52 PM

I am actually thinking of buying a 19" PC (for portability reasons) and run it along with my Mac Pro quad-core.

Now, it would mean also buying a 2nd MOTU PCI-e 424 card + re-authorizing all my VIs and plugs and stuff and maintain 2 machines instead of 1.
It is more complicated.
But, if I can spare hours because Reaper is more stable/advanced on a PC and money because I need to buy less hardware (if these plugs are convincing on the long run), that could be the trick.

I usually run sessions with over 30 tracks, so an old PC is not a way to go, I guess.
Buying a brand new PC in Switzerland is 1400.- ish ... not a big deal if the machine works perfectly.

larrygates · 09-16-2008, 05:07 PM

I never said anything about getting an OLD PC. I said a 600 dollar PC. A Q6600 I wouldn't necessarily call old, although you can get a 45nm Quad Core for around the same price. Which would be "newer."

I don't think going over to PC and re-paying or re-authorizing all your VI's AU's etc is really worth it. As far as the Magix Suite goes, I would also say that a 1400 dollar or Euro dunno your currency is good deal either. I'd just get a UAD-2 Card and some great comps and call it a day. And just keep using your Mac Pro with any DAW you choose (maybe even Reaper). I'd just say go Logic if you're not already using it.

Based on what you're saying so far, I kind of think it's a waste for you to go PC, again based off what I'm getting from you so far.

Magix Bundle = ~500 dollars.
New PC = ~1400 dollars (according to your post)
New Motu = ~400 dollars (dunno)

That sounds like ~2000 dollars. UAD-2 Duo is like ~600 dollars, giving you much better options than the Magix Bundle.

But if you have 500 000 Euros in the bank, do whatever the hell you want and dis regard any input.

I'd switch back to a Mac Pro Octo-Core (1 processor 8 cores) and a stable interface, but there's just TOO many goodies on the PC side. If I had the money I'd run both. I can't though.

Shit, trade me your Mac Pro for my Quad Core PC.

acs · 09-16-2008, 09:06 PM

Other than the look and feel of the operating system is there any significant reason to use a mac over a pc if you mostly run Reaper? I actually want to know because I've never owned a mac and have only used them for brief periods at a time and it seemed nice at best. I don't see any reason for me to consider a mac when I need to upgrade (soon) but most people I know who own them always say how much they love them but they don't do anything with audio so it's hard to guage. Interested to hear potential benefits of changing platforms other than things about viruses and/or how much microsoft sucks.

mio*star · 09-17-2008, 07:20 AM

Mac OSX is really plug and play (even if there are a few exceptions) and globally really user-friendly.

Now, I've worke on PCs as well (for music) and they can work as soon as you have a good config and solved usual driver problems.

The overall look and feel of Mac OSX is great for me. It is just appealing but it may be just a matter of taste.

Being able to connect to the Internet without worrying about viruses - yes - that is another plus.

Now, I may stick to Mac depending on Reaper's evolution, and forget about these Magix plug-ins. I'll see ...
But no trade for a PC - sorry ;-)

larrygates · 09-17-2008, 09:25 AM

Heavy Mac user here for years. Heavy PC user for years also.

I made a LOT of progress on my Macs very quickly. It's where I made all my money from. Well, sorry, it was actually Hardware Seq etc. . . But, on the Mac, the OS is different, but it's still an OS. Mainly just a slightly diff way of Navigating. It's kind of hard to find files, and to keep your system drive tidy on a Mac. There are programs to help with that. Your Mac will get sluggish, just as a PC.

The virus thing and the internet "myth" I'm not really into. Been connected to the internet on my PC DAW for more than a year no problems. No firewalls, no Virus protection on my PC. And I torrent.

Easy setup on the Mac is somewhat true. But when things go wrong on a Mac setup wise, it's kind of hard to find a central location to trouble shoot. Once your PC is set up the way you like, you just image that point, keep your program files on a sep drive, and only have WINDOWS files on the C: drive and you're good. i. e. You could have a 3 or 4GB image and restore in minutes, instead of a 200GB image and HOURS or a day.

I'm not a techy, don't care to be, RAM can be used pretty well on a Mac though, PC is diff. WAY more stuff is compatible with XP, but Mac has GREAT mac only Audio stuff. Logic 7 / 8 esp.

That help you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by acs

Other than the look and feel of the operating system is there any significant reason to use a mac over a pc if you mostly run Reaper? I actually want to know because I've never owned a mac and have only used them for brief periods at a time and it seemed nice at best. I don't see any reason for me to consider a mac when I need to upgrade (soon) but most people I know who own them always say how much they love them but they don't do anything with audio so it's hard to guage. Interested to hear potential benefits of changing platforms other than things about viruses and/or how much microsoft sucks.

mio*star · 09-19-2008, 12:16 AM

That is another argument to switch to PC : you'll find so many practical (free) PC-only plug-ins.

Now that the PC OS seem to be more stable, I may consider the migration (again).

labyrinth · 09-19-2008, 05:10 AM

The PC OS IS NOT MORE STABLE!!! XP is pretty stable, but is certainly not more stable than Leopard. Vista has too many problems. Windows 7, which is an in progress succession to Vista may be more stable, but still Windows is not more stable than Mac's system. Mac is highly based on the Unix Kernel, which is what Linux is also built on- this is the reason for it's stability and no-virus issue.

Larry is very right that Windows is very easy to find things, but for me, who likes to f*%k with everything, it gets me into trouble. If Mac works for you- DO NOT MOVE to Windows.

mio*star · 09-19-2008, 07:40 AM

I am currently working on an urban soul project on Reaper/Mac OSX - latest version.
Just 4-5 audio tracks + 7-8 midi tracks running 3-4 VIs. Nothing complicated.

I got 3 crashes today and I am still trying to recover my session after Reaper hast lost most of my settings including my custom theme and the audio prefs.
When opening my session now, no matter if I select 88.2 as the session's frequency, Reaper will see it as a 44.1 session and play it double time ... ??

Very disapointing.
Some of my plugs are also not working properly (Audio Damage) ...

You know, I have no time to waste, I have to work for clients and I am usually on deadlines.

So, to me, buying a PC + investing 1-2 days of work to configure it would be less headache and it may even payback.

Now, I'll try to work on my Bootcamp partition and see how it runs ...

labyrinth · 09-19-2008, 08:06 AM

Are you getting any kind of info when these crashes occur? Also, have you set REAPER to Request the sample rate: 88200 and checked the box Allow projects to overide device sample rate?

mio*star · 09-19-2008, 08:39 AM

just raw quits ... and yes I ticked all these prefs.
It is now working again after 3-4 restarts ... ??

but rendering the song, some vocal parts at the end are right in time when listening but out of time when rendering -> frightening !
I tried a 2nd time and the same occurs ????

sorry to be so negative today / I still like Reaper a lot and imagine my future with it ;-)

labyrinth · 09-19-2008, 08:55 AM

It's very easy to be negative when things are not cooperating, I get the same way. Anyway, I wish I could help more. Maybe the new release (when it's released will fix this).

mio*star · 09-19-2008, 11:33 AM

thanx for sharing your experience, whatever happens to Reaper itself, I like its community.

peace

mio*star · 10-07-2008, 10:14 AM

Hey guys,

I just wanted to let you know that I just recorded and mixed a demo project (7 songs in 2 half-days+bits of night ;-) with 20 tracks of simultaneous recording without major problems.

I had about 25 tracks for mixing and just got 2 crashes when opening an extra Altiverb and asking Reaper to do something else in the meantime, that sort of things but nothing too bad.

It really encourages me to keep on trusting Reaper OSX ;-)

mio*star · 10-17-2008, 01:42 PM

45 tracks projecs with 5-6 Native Instruments (mainly samplers + 1 Massive + 1 Elektrik piano), 3-4 Altiverbs, URS EQs etc. : 1-2 rough quits but otherwise stable.

I feel even better now with 2.52 coming etc. ;-)