Getting friend pressure: Cubase vs. REAPER

[Jedi]

I'm just learning REAPER. (actually, learning on 2.5 because
it's the version in the tutorial book I have - will purchase 3.76
when I'm done with the book). I LIKE REAPER! I love this forum...

But I have a well-intentioned friend telling me "why play with open
source crap - step up to the pros and get Cubase". His contention is
that I make very good money, so why go on the cheap? Well, REAPER just
seems to fit my vibe. I'm enjoying learning it... and so far, I get it.

He also contends that "cheap programs might track fine, but don't
mix-in-the-bus very well - your mixes will suffer". Huh? What does
that even mean? Of course, he's never tried REAPER ("I played with it
a few years ago") - he just "knows". Given that he put Audacity in
the same sentence, that tells me he's NEVER actually tried REAPER.

So my question: How do I counter this? I don't know enough yet to
definitively say "REAPER is every bit as good as Cubase".... I just
feel like it's what I want to use. I LIKE REAPER.

Suggestions on things I can toss back to him?

Thanks for any tips,

Jedi

[copacetic]

Tell your friend to come read the forum.

The vast number of highly satisfied people, many of whom I can only presume do this professionally should drop him a vague clue.

*edit*

And if you are liking it now, your lid is going to be blown off when 4 arrives.

[DarkStar]

(a) Remix one of his songs in Reaper,

(b) ask him to lend you the cash for a Cubase licence.

[Jedi]

Originally Posted by DarkStar

(b) ask him to lend you the cash for a Cubase licence.

That's part of his contention... I own a successful business and make
plenty of money. If I wanted an SSL desk with PT HD with a full
video production desk, I could buy it. But if a $40 DAW does what I
want it to, so be it. I'm just a hobby guitarist - most of the
folks in this forum are like U2, Pink Floyd, etc. in talent and
skill - I just dink around with my own songs for fun. REAPER seems
to fit that theme just fine. His point is "just buy the best and
be done with it"

I'm just fishing for some great "one liners" that I can throw back
that REAPER is every bit as good as Cubase (which at least for me, it is)

Jedi

[Rachmaninoff]

Since most DAWs do the same thing, I'd suggest you to try both Cubase and REAPER (and as most DAWs as you can), then choose the one you like most. It's largely a matter of personal taste, just find the one you feel more comfortable with.

Since this is a REAPER user forum, you're likely to find REAPER enthusiasts here, and I suggest you to check other forums as well.

The point is that you should the one that you like, not someone else.

[Dannii]

Maybe suggest to him that if he's really serious about using a professional solution, he should drop Cubase and get a PTHD rig!!!

Seriously though, as has already been said, there's many here who work professionally with REAPER and have switched from years of using so called 'professional' DAWS.

If you like REAPER now, you're most likely going to love it the more you use it.
V3 and V4 have added so much that this really is a seriously powerful and stable solution no matter your level of experience. If YOU like it, stick with it and ignore the naysayers.

[Runaway]

Originally Posted by Jedi

I'm just fishing for some great "one liners" that I can throw back
that REAPER is every bit as good as Cubase (which at least for me, it is)

Jedi

Sometimes its not worth trying to convince anyone - I'd just get a new friend - LOL

But seriously use what ever suits you and don't ever think that because it has a high price tag (no names but who's initials are PT) it's better.

Cubase has its plusses and its minuses as does Reaper and every other DAW.

[Coachz]

I have my Cubase 5 FULL for sale after using it for 3 years and doing many many sessions. Does that tell you enough? Also, jump on 4 and do a portable install so you don't overwrite your other install. You likely own't look back.

John

[hopi]

clearly your 'friend' don't know what he is talking about.

he thinks reaper is open source? not quite...
but at the same time, the developers have a revolutionary point of view both in terms of providing ways for advanced users to add to the functionality of reaper and also about what the cost of something should be.

just think... if you wanted people [say like you who will never really need 40 grand of gear] to be able to do recording and mixing would you price your program at 40-250 or at 800? In fact reaper, fully working with no limitations can always be downloaded for free... oh and btw, ...do yourself a favor... get the latest V3.76 and dl the pdf of the user guide [still all for free, eh?] oh and also the SWS extensions!!!

Now back to your friend... so look... I have and have used almost every DAW out there..... they all have their 'own ways'... some, for example are easier for midi editing than others, etc. etc.
Still, reaper gives you routing ability that others have not even dreamed of yet.... of course that may or may not be important to you or your friend....

It is a rare day that I care to or need to work in anything other than reaper...

As far as simply 'the quality of the sound' you can get... reaper don't take a second place to anyone. Now that has to be explained a little bit:

Reaper comes with it's own set of plugins... many of which are great... Other DAW's also often come with their own...
Reaper does not come with a slew of VSTi sound making plugins... Cubase does come with it's own...
Reaper lets you use whatever you decide on in terms of VST and VSTi... so if you want an 800 dollar sampler, no problem... if you don't want or need it, still no problem and you are not forced to buy it as part of the package...

Clearly there are pleanty of people on this forum who have used most other DAW's and who now use reaper instead... and clearly some of them are doing professional work at the best possible levels.

Lastly I'd say that when you get a good basic grasp of how to find your way around in V3 that you get over to V4, and never mind that it's still 'beta'... It just offers so much more and can be set up and tailored in so many nicer ways to suit what you want to see.

hahaha you could just tell your friend he is full of it.

[bigwoody]

Reaper is NOT open source. It has dedicated developers who write and support the code (like none other out there IMHO). It is one of the best written, least bloated applications that I have ever seen (DAW or not). Reaper has a totally different business model that does not punish the honest person who pays for a license like the others with do with hardware dongles and copy protection. Like others said, at the end of the day you should choose the tool that works for you. The best one liner you could give your friend is that they should go download and really try Reaper. The download is 100% functionally (no 'demo' version). It will install in about 30 seconds, and once you point it at the correct sound card you can be recording and editing an a couple of minutes. Ask him to tell you ANY other DAW option out there where you can do that!

EDIT
LOL, Hopi beat me to it....so ya what he said.

[Jedi]

Originally Posted by Coachz

I have my Cubase 5 FULL for sale after using it for 3 years and doing many many sessions. Does that tell you enough? Also, jump on 4 and do a portable install so you don't overwrite your other install. You likely own't look back.

John

Yes - that says a LOT!

I'm very much enjoying learning REAPER (2.5 per G. Francis' book - will
upgrade to 3.76 when done learning 2.5).... it already does 1000x what "I'm used to"
from my last studio (analog 8-track R/R) just in what I now know, which
is not all that much. I have no doubts that REAPER is perfect for my needs.

Jedi

[Lawrence]

Originally Posted by Jedi

But I have a well-intentioned friend telling me "why play with open source crap - step up to the pros and get Cubase". His contention is that I make very good money, so why go on the cheap? Well, REAPER just seems to fit my vibe. I'm enjoying learning it... and so far, I get it.

Ignore him. Use what you want. The situation you describe happens the same way in reverse...

Hey dude! Why are you using that bloated and expensive PT crap for suckers when Reaper is the shiznet?

Which is just as stupid. If you like Cubase, use Cubase. If you like Reaper, use Reaper.

[AudioWonderland]

Originally Posted by Jedi

I'm just learning REAPER. (actually, learning on 2.5 because
it's the version in the tutorial book I have - will purchase 3.76
when I'm done with the book). I LIKE REAPER! I love this forum...

But I have a well-intentioned friend telling me "why play with open
source crap - step up to the pros and get Cubase". His contention is
that I make very good money, so why go on the cheap? Well, REAPER just
seems to fit my vibe. I'm enjoying learning it... and so far, I get it.

He also contends that "cheap programs might track fine, but don't
mix-in-the-bus very well - your mixes will suffer". Huh? What does
that even mean? Of course, he's never tried REAPER ("I played with it
a few years ago") - he just "knows". Given that he put Audacity in
the same sentence, that tells me he's NEVER actually tried REAPER.

So my question: How do I counter this? I don't know enough yet to
definitively say "REAPER is every bit as good as Cubase".... I just
feel like it's what I want to use. I LIKE REAPER.

Suggestions on things I can toss back to him?

Thanks for any tips,

Jedi

Why do you need to counter it? Tell him to piss off. Your work will speak for itself.

And oh by the way, if was half as smart as he thinks he is he would know what open source is and as such, that Reaper is not open source.

[Jedi]

Originally Posted by AudioWonderland

Your work will speak for itself.

That's what I'm afraid of

Originally Posted by AudioWonderland

And oh by the way, if was half as smart as he thinks he is he would know what open source is and as such, that Reaper is not open source.

He's a good guy - just poorly informed I think. I hold no ill-will for
him at all. I've just emailed some of what has been posted here and
he is no longer bashing the idea - he's going to download REAPER just
to see what all the fuss is about.

It's all good now



Jedi

[AudioWonderland]

Originally Posted by Jedi

That's what I'm afraid of



He's a good guy - just poorly informed I think. I hold no ill-will for
him at all. I've just emailed some of what has been posted here and
he is no longer bashing the idea - he's going to download REAPER just
to see what all the fuss is about.

It's all good now



Jedi

Good to hear. Apologies if I came off kind of harsh....

[Jedi]

Originally Posted by AudioWonderland

Good to hear. Apologies if I came off kind of harsh....

No worries... I didn't take it that way at all.



Jedi

[Schmidty]

Clearly your buddy doesn't really know what he's talking about. Besides all of the stuff already pointed out (reaper not being open source, Reaper rocking so hard PT's neighbors complain, etc) if he was really trying to push you toward a "pro" option why did he pick Cubase?? If you look at the major studios/broadcast houses, they pretty much all run ProTools, Logic, Nuendo, or Pyramix. Cubase is the "ProTools LE" of the Stienberg family. It comes free with most audio interfaces, what does that tell you?

[Jedi]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

It comes free with most audio interfaces, what does that tell you?

Not the full version. Just the LE, which is quite crippled I understand.
The full release is $495

Just sayin'....

Jedi

[afantozzi]

I think there is no need to counter your friend's criticism.
If he is ok with Cubase, let him use Cubase. If you are ok with Reaper, just use it, no matter what your friend says.
I am a professional guitarist and use Reaper. I also have Cubase LE and worked a bit with Cubase "standard" edition.
I never had problems with Reaper. On the contrary... I am very happy with it.
When I have money to spend, I prefer to invest on better equipment (mics, amps, preamps, monitors, etc.). I really do not feel the need to invest so much money on a DAW such as Cubase when I can use Reaper that costs incredibly less and does exactly what I need.

[Lawrence]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Cubase is the "ProTools LE" of the Stienberg family. It comes free with most audio interfaces, what does that tell you?

That you never owned Cubase?

[musicbynumbers]

I sold my fully paid version of Nuendo 4 for Reaper and am fully versed in the most popular DAWs and have tried them all.

There's no doubt which DAW is the most "PRO" for me!

Although I don't for one second think that any of the other DAWs are bad really any more, they are all pretty similar now it's just that reaper offers all the "details" i need plus the ability to grow with me.

It is also run by the loveliest guys on the planet!

and has a great forum to boot!

I have hung out at the steinberg forums a lot and I saw a massive amount of complaining about the DAW and being ignored by the devs.

good riddance to that!

[Jae.Thomas]

cubase might very well be a better choice, but certainly not for those lame reasons.

upgrade to the latest 4.0 beta and then you'd have something proper to compare with.

[Jedi]

Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill

cubase might very well be a better choice, but certainly not for those lame reasons.

upgrade to the latest 4.0 beta and then you'd have something proper to compare with.

As soon as I'm done with Geoffrey Francis' tutorial on 2.5 LOL!

I don't have any intention of using anything but REAPER.
Damn the torpedoes!

Jedi

[RuairiAU]

While your friend may have good intentions, he does not know what he's talking about.
I use Reaper because they're a good business, run by good guys and that good nature is reflected in the great forum community.

The product is great, get's constant updates and is extremely cheap. A lot of us ain't broke either, I don't use this tool because it's all I can afford. I've even gone out of my way to write software for it (as many others have and still do).

However, most of us here have come from using tools like PT, Sonar or whatever, so we've spent years getting over charged, throwing good money after bad and pulling our hair out when they crash, bug out or throw in random noise and artifacts as they suck the life out of all available resources.

Reaper is a breath of fresh air, I can sit down with my guitar and start recording in seconds. I'm not tinkering with settings or trying to fix things that should just work.

[warmingtone]

There seems to be a lot of 'fans' out there of software and products...I guess there is too in Reaper...but it is a tool.

Any respectable DAW will make a decent recording, it's all abut how you use it and what you feel comfortable with and if it does the things you want it to do...

Now here's the thing...I too am new to it, but every time I open it up, I find some new thing it can do to customize it too look and feel and do whatever I want it to.

It took a little while to come to terms with this philosophy, but now I see the real power in it...Reaper can be what you want it to be and set up exactly how you want it.

Learn the 'templates' things and save a few...wow...open reaper, select a template and all of a sudden I have all my tracks, instruments and effect, drums all on separate channels and ready to go. Same with an orchestral plug in, or whatever I am looking to compose in. Different EZD kit and a new template will open that up all set and ready to record.

I was just watching TV and messing with a bass, came up with a good progression...plugged the bass into the interface, opened a new project in a new tab, select new track, press record...new idea preserved for a later time.

The community here seems great, the upgrades frequent and free (with a more than reasonable license fee of course) and there are any number of enthusiasts adding more and more functionality every day to the thing.

So, I am impressed obviously...and I have heard a lot of professionals are moving over or using reaper so they would know better than I why. The cost of a thing is often inverse to the functionality anyway, these people are not just into a product, they are actively developing and shaping what it might become and you too could play a part in that.

As it stands, I tried to go more with a simpler 'garageband-esque' style DAW to cut my teeth on, and while good...has nothing of the functionality of Reaper. Within a week I have worked out the things the other would not do, routing effects into one another and multiple outs from complex VSTi's.

But when I first tried it, it seems very daunting and in fact could not get it to work well at all. A little experience with a simpler DAW (audacity is a great program btw, but hardly comparable...I was using MC5 on a PC)was enough to find out that I wanted a bit more flexibility and so gave reaper another shot...so far really blown away.

Give it a little time, dress it up in a nice 'theme' and make it your own and your friend will be asking you how you were able to do the things you are doing seriously. Other DAW's are out of my prioce range, but even the highest priced/quality products out there have their limitations and strengths.

I feel that the difference with reaper is that you can make a custom piece of kit that is easy on the resources, utilizes all the things you might throw at it and will continue to grow. Now is a good time to get into it, I am using the latest version and I think that is a good idea really, but version 4 may well have even more surprises and should not be far away from what I can see.

There are reasons you may wish to use other DAW's in tandem with Reaper depending on what you are trying to do. There are still some frustrations with MIDI editing and such, no deal killers, but there will be improvements. In the mean time, there are other tools that one might use.

For laying down a drum track, pulling out a guitar and playing...well, it will certainly do the job and you will have a blast.

As for others, well it is a free world...many though are committed to their choice out of the significant investment they have put into it...at least with Reaper I think you will find many that have the option of many programs and been there, yet have found what they are looking for in Reaper for what they want to do.

The big stumbling block I found was coming to grips with this flexibility, that Reaper is not another DAW but an extremely customizable interface. Once you get into this stuff, you realize that this machine is an instrument into itself and with reaper you are able to create your own custom tool that works for you. Still learning, but as I say, constantly impressed and exited about what I have found and how much deeper one can go.

As for the 'open source thing' well couldn't be prouder (though Reaper isn't exactly that)to be using a program that utilizes the experience and opinions of so many enthusiastic users and allows for the users to bend the program to their will and share with others.

After a little play yesterday in the 'effects' section I have found a heap of useful tools that were written by users and have solved a heap of problems I was having instantly!

You may also wish to explore the thousands of very decent free VSTs out there also written by enthusiasts and really will help you get some great results.

Anyway...make up your own mind...cubase, why not PT or FL or...you know...everyone has a fanboy but this is not a case of getting what you paid for at all, this is high level stuff here and I am mightily impressed so far and more so the more I get into it...LOL...oh no, sound like a fanboy myself...back to the guitar strings for me...

[g8torcliff]

You could play a CD of anyone and ask your friend if he can tell what software was used to make it?

Some people buy things based on brand names, some don't. Kind of like "they might look the same but this hammer works better than that one" type thing.

cliff

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Lawrence

That you never owned Cubase?

Actually I switched over to Reaper from Cubase SE which I switched to from Cubase LE.
And to Jedi, a lot do come with LE, but a few actually come bundled with SE, and while LE is definately a crippled version, SE isn't stellar either. I may have been (definitly was) exagerating a little when I called it the PT LE of the Stienberg family, but I do find it suspiciouse that Stienberg has two DAW platforms (Cubase and Nuendo) that, if they are both "pro level," theoretically compete against each other. One of two things is goin on. Either, Stienberg's product developement team has a bad case of amnesia and puts out multiple products in the same market, or they know that "pro" want more than Cubase can offer.

[Lawrence]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Actually I switched over to Reaper from Cubase SE which I switched to from Cubase LE.

Like I said, you never really owned (the real) Cubase.

I may have been (definitly was) exagerating a little when I called it the PT LE of the Stienberg family...

Ya think?

...but I do find it suspiciouse that Stienberg has two DAW platforms (Cubase and Nuendo) that, if they are both "pro level," theoretically compete against each other. One of two things is goin on. Either, Stienberg's product developement team has a bad case of amnesia and puts out multiple products in the same market, or they know that "pro" want more than Cubase can offer.

Or maybe you just don't know the difference between Cubase and Nuendo as relates to video post?

Again, not trying to be an ass but you seem to be commenting directly about things that are easily investigated. Just look at the Nuendo feature list and you'll see the things that aren't in Cubase. Samplitude also has two platforms, Samp and Sequoia. So does Avid, PT9 and PTHD.

They don't compete against each other, they're for different markets.

[Schmidty]

You're right, I really don't know much about Nuendo's feature set. I know it's more geared towards broadcast and post production, while Cubase is more toward Studio and Music productio. I just hat how all of these companies build a name with a solid product (PTHD, Cubase SX [which I know is not a designation any more], etc.) and then use that to peddle cheap knockoffs of their own products in LE form. Sorry for ranting.

[kenpeel]

I have just switched to Reaper after more than 10 years with Cubase.

Just sick to death of paying more and more for less and less.

The Apollo theme is a joy, nice and clean and easy on the eye.

Reaper is fast, flexible and creative. Maybe it's subjective, in fact I'm sure it is, but think it sounds better than Cubase.

In the end though, it doesn't really matter what you use. As the legendary Thomas Fehlmann says, "we all cook with water." But I have said goodbye to Cubase.

[foxAsteria]

i hear of pros leaving protools for reaper all the time. if that doesn't speak to its pro-ness... it's cheap mainly because it's cockos isn't mostly a marketing department. does your friend listen to lady gaga because she has multi-million dollar videos? because obviously that MUST mean she's a good musician...

[dea-man]

Jedi -

I would suggest you have your friend visit this website and read the "Home" page as well as the "About" page and its details.

Next, while visiting tell him to also check out the Cockos Purchase page for details on their excellent business formula.

Also, top left on the "Home" page, he can check out the SoundOnSound quote which I think leads to the actual article and I suggest a quick Google Search for "Cockos Reaper Review".

As some have pointed out there is no need to convince your friend of anything.

Reaper speaks for itself.

[karbomusic]

Suggestions on things I can toss back to him?

No words, just a confused expression like this then turn back around to using Reaper or whatever else you like.

[Muzikman2008]

Tell him and h
is mates to buy it!!! Or the Grim Reaper will get him and the rest of his bloated DAW software and eat him for breakfast! ... its a "no brainer" you will def have the last laugh and i have used all cubase, cakewalk sonar versions.... price & functions compared to the others... pah! Stability?? Top notch! Like others say... produce a song in Reaper and blow his mind!!! :0)

[flmason]

A simple strategy...

Tell you're bud... "Well, since I've paid for it, let's use Reaper until we find something about it that prevents us from reaching our artistic vision. If one of the other products has what we need at that time, then we can switch."

Can't be any more rational than that I'd think.

This way you don't have to get into that, "Look dude, you're wrong, I'm right" ordeal. You leave open the future without having to have a confrontation at present.

Since I doubt you'll hit said limitation any time soon, I suspect you'll be using Reaper for a while.

Heck I have a copy of Tracktion 1.6.0.1 from around 2004... I continue to find things about it I didn't realize. It's 7 years old... Granted Tracktion falls short in a lot of things that are considered standard now days (time stretching a clip without pitch change or artifacts comes to mind) yet in others it's still ahead, like signal routing.

So's if that old DAW can still be useful, chance are you might never get into hot water with Reaper. Especially if you're just aiming at tracking and mixing.

[Coachz]

I'll sell you my Cubase :-) msg me

[JacobWolfEDM]

Most of time, with the exception of Reason, digital audio workstation (DAW) doesn't matter... When I first started producing Hip-Hop in 2009 I used Reason 3 and loved it. When I started producing EDM in Summer 2011, I originally used FL Studio, and have now progressed to Ableton! I know how to use Logic Pro, Cubebase, Reaper, Nuendo, and Pro Tools. Honestly what matters for your "sound" is two things, VST sound design and drum samples. Neither which are default DAW loaded. I use multiple VSTs, like NI Massive, NI FM8, NI Absynth, Lennar Digital Sylenth1, Cakewalk Z3TA+ 2, Tone2 Gladiator, OhmForce Ohmicide, iZotope iTrash, and others. All of these load in all DAWs. So if you have a good foundation in mixing, mastering, melodies, and song layout, you should be fine no matter what DAW. So don't worry about that. Just get the right plug-ins. That's what matter. I know I own a record label and all my artists use different DAWs, but same VSTs!

[chip mcdonald]

Originally Posted by Jedi

Suggestions on things I can toss back to him?

Ask him "specifically why should I use Cubase over Reaper?". I mean, he *must* know *exactly* why to be advising you, right?

Everyone speaks in a soundbite-compact ambiguously astute manner these days, and communicate nothing.

[bluzkat]

Warning... old thread!!

[ivansc]

...and after all that nobody told him to answer "well that is why there is chocolate and vanilla"