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Old 02-05-2021, 07:31 AM   #1
NorthernPilgrim
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Default Midi input causing audio playback failure on Master track

Hi,

I'm trying to record via midi for the first time and having real problems getting it set up.

My set up is Windows PC, Reaper v6.21, audio interface is Focusrite Scarlet v2, midi input is a Yamaha P85 piano connected to PC via midi > usb.

The issue I'm getting is that audio playback from the master track isn't working. I can hear back the plain piano (not vst) from the record armed track by setting midi hardware output to my PC (Wavetable Synth) or the piano itself, but not the master. If I bounce the track it records fine with the vst in place.

If I save a track then reboot my PC, the master will play correctly with vst for about 10 seconds before breaking. A reboot of just Reaper has no effect.

Once the issue occurs, the master track seems to be completely broken - even the metronome makes no sound.

I've looked through loads of threads and tried everything I can find to no effect. My guess is it may be something to do with buffering/CPU? If so I haven't got a clue what needs changing!

Can anyone help?

Thanks
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Old 02-06-2021, 09:39 AM   #2
b2001
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So I am a little confused by some of what you said and also need additional info.

For instance:
“I can hear back the plain piano (not vst) from the record armed track by setting midi hardware output to my PC (Wavetable Synth) or the piano itself, but not the master. If I bounce the track it records fine with the vst in place.”

In device settings you’re using focusrite usb asio as the driver?
Therefore it shows up as an input audio device on tracks?
The buffer size for my 2i2 is 192; probably good enough for performance without drops but maybe not latency.

Are you monitoring thru headphones or monitors connected to your focusrite?

Typically, with my midi controller I can set up a track with controller as midi input, set up midi output, add a vsti synth and record midi. Once recorded, playback is always fine.

I can set up a second track with my 2i2 as audio input (I have audio outs from a yamaha mx49 going into it), set up output to audio stereo, record arm and record.

Again, playback is fine.

I have also routed to midi hardware output , always my midisport 2x2 which might go into a boss dr880 or the mx49 thru midi and from those (audio) to the 2i2...

Break this down to a track at a time and a step at a time within the track and get it working.
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Old 02-07-2021, 03:41 AM   #3
NorthernPilgrim
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Hi, yes. Focusrite set up as input and output. Monitoring with headphones through the Focusrite.

Focusrite buffer is 512 (recommended for live recording which is what I usually do).

The midi is connected direct to PC via usb. Obviously I'm setting midi as the input on the track and, as I say, there's no issue with the input or recording.

I've now managed to make it work by removing the Focusrite and switching to PC sound for audio output. So does look to be related to that.

I have tried reducing the Focusrite buffer to 200 to no effect, but think I might need to try a restart to test that properly. When it breaks only a PC restart seems to restore.

Should I keep playing with buffers or is there another setting I need to look at?
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Old 02-07-2021, 11:42 AM   #4
b2001
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Some observations:

Looking at the p85 user manual; there is midi input and output, and headphones output that I can see. In order to hear / record audio from the keyboard , you would need a single trs jack split to two ts jacks cable running into your scarlett. I do this with my korg volcas.

It is very possible that routing to hardware output PC /Wavetable Synth will only play thru the PC sound and not the focusrite as it seems that you have verified. I think? Or if I am wrong on this you might have some type of a conflict issue with the focusrite driver and PC sound competing with each other.

In the short term eliminate going to the PC sound to see if you still have issues with things breaking. Put a vsti on the track. I believe the simpler you make this, the better it might be in narrowing down the issue.
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Old 02-08-2021, 07:25 PM   #5
domzy
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i'm a bit confused about what you are trying to do, but it sounds like you are using a dodgy plug-in (what plug-in is it? the symptoms you describe sound like the problems i have when using plug-ins built in Maize)
What is your actual goal - to record the audio from your keyboard or just the MIDI & use a plug-in for the audio?
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Old 02-09-2021, 07:54 AM   #6
NorthernPilgrim
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Thanks for the replies.

I'm simply trying to record midi from my piano and apply a vst.

It's not the vst plug in - I've tried a few, mostly the inbuilt Reaper synth so I could be sure it wasn't the plug in, and problem has been the same for all. The vst also records fine when I actually bounce the track, its just master playback while editing and recording that doesn't work. The bars on the master move when the track plays so there's something there.

I'm not using the Focusrite for input for this but going direct from piano to PC, midi to usb. Again, I don't think this is causing a problem as the recording side of things seems to be fine.

My best guess is its either some contention for output between Focusrite and midi (all I've done is set up the midi output channel via preferences as lots of people recommend), or the Focusrite not being able to handle the midi data for whatever reason.

The weird thing for me is that when it happens, it completely breaks the master audio. Nothing works through it unless I reboot PC or remove the Focusrite.

The workaround I'm using is doing the job but would be handy to know if there is a solution.
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Old 02-09-2021, 08:37 AM   #7
domzy
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sorry, i'm still having difficulty following you, but you say you can bounce the audio ok - so if you just play audio back through Reaper the master is fine. it only "breaks" when you are playing MIDI with a VSTi (and this isn't confined to a specific plug-in)?
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Old 02-09-2021, 08:56 AM   #8
NorthernPilgrim
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Yes. I usually record live instruments / voice and playback has always been fine.

This is my first attempt at midi. I'm recording a midi track into a new empty project. Everything seems to look ok (I've read a LOT of threads on this kind of issue!) - checked the settings, the bars move, records and bounces ok... but I'm not getting any audio from the master.

Once it happens it seems to completely break audio playback - so if I delete my midi track and start up the metronome there is no audio for that either.

I've also discovered that if I save the project, reboot my PC, open and start playing the project, playback works correctly with vst in place for a few seconds before you lose it.

As I've said above, I've managed to workaround by unplugging the Focusrite as my audio interface and switching output to PC speakers - here the master plays back audio fine. That's enabling me to record but suspect I'll need to save the midi track as a wav if I want to add other instruments or vocals via the Focusrite.
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Old 02-09-2021, 09:13 AM   #9
domzy
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very strange, i'm struggling to see how MIDI could have any bearing on the master track.

It's not a case of the master track auto-muting due to excessive volume is it?
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Old 02-09-2021, 09:41 AM   #10
NorthernPilgrim
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No. I've just tested it now by bringing the Focusrite back in. Volume is all in the green. Doesn't go above 75-80%.
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Old 02-09-2021, 09:56 AM   #11
domzy
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i'm out of ideas.
I'm assuming you've tried it multiple times - open a fresh project, insert virtual instrument on new track, record etc. - but the audio on the master stops working every time?
very odd.
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Old 02-09-2021, 02:45 PM   #12
b2001
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I am confused by what you are saying also. You are mixing audio and midi terminology.
What is your scarlett model?
Forget the PC speakers; have the scarlett set up as the audio interface in Windows/Reaper.

Create a new song and create a new track.
Midi out from the keyboard to USB/PC/Reaper.
Select keyboard as midi input and select midi output.
Record some keystrokes.
Add a vsti (which one?) as fx.
In the midi editor inspect the notes; what midi channel? Inspect the vsti gui; what midi channel does it expect to receive on? Do these match? They have to.

Play the virtual keyboard; can you hear sound thru headphones plugged into the Scarlett headphones jack?
Play the recorded midi sequence. Can you hear it?
Try with another vsti (which one?) same steps as above. Can you hear it?

Do you get sound breakup still? Have you run a dpc latency test?
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Old 02-12-2021, 07:54 AM   #13
NorthernPilgrim
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Hi,

I've run those steps using the Spitfire LABS Soft Piano and ReaSynth vsts. At no point can I hear any audio through the Focusrite 2i2 3rd edition.

Used 'create new track using virtual instrument' option.

I aligned midi to the same channel across everything (previously had used the default any option). Apart from the sound playback everything looks to be working fine - track behaves as you'd expect it to, I can edit it fine, and master is registering input.

I've not tried a latency check.

May or may not be related but I have noticed that the bounced track doesn't sound good - vst itself is ok but track is fuzzy and crackly. That's without adjusting any quality settings.
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Old 02-13-2021, 01:45 PM   #14
b2001
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Why don’t you post an rpp file?
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