Go Back   Cockos Incorporated Forums > REAPER Forums > REAPER Feature Requests

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-05-2013, 07:12 PM   #41
foxAsteria
Human being with feelings
 
foxAsteria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 10,253
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hamish View Post
Sorry you felt you had to say that. You will have to try to understand the difference between Audio and MIDI data. Tempo can be bent through a MIDI item, but not through an audio one. Unless (I think) if you are using Propellorhead record, but that ONLY has a beats timeline.

REAPER will never go that way because of it's stong time orientation, as I understand it. Tape recording emulator, post production work etc.
I wasn't meaning to call you a noob, haha! I just meant noobs in general won't know what timebase means and get confused... I understand that the two items are different. But since you can have correct behavior by enabling that option by default, then why have it otherwise? Reaper doesn't have to go any which way, it's already possible.
__________________
foxyyymusic
foxAsteria is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 07:25 PM   #42
hamish
Human being with feelings
 
hamish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Reflection Free Zone
Posts: 3,026
Default

It's just that 'correct behaviour' is subjective.

In record (Propellorhead) the timeline is always beats, and slowing the tempo, even though the project is longer in time, does not show that way.

It is OK for a composer, but for a sound engineer it is bizzare, freaks me right out. You might find you love it!
hamish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 10:35 PM   #43
foxAsteria
Human being with feelings
 
foxAsteria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 10,253
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hamish View Post
It's just that 'correct behaviour' is subjective.

In record (Propellorhead) the timeline is always beats, and slowing the tempo, even though the project is longer in time, does not show that way.

It is OK for a composer, but for a sound engineer it is bizzare, freaks me right out. You might find you love it!
I'm still not sure we understand each other. I don't see how MIDI items responding to time timebase by following the beats could be even subjectively considered correct behavior. The reason we have time timebase is to keep items in their time positions while adjusting tempo, no? Who would ever want MIDI and audio items going out of sync because only the audio obey timebase? There is nothing subjective about the correct behavior of items in relation to timebase, only the use of it.

I'm saying, make the MIDI items respond correctly to time timebase by default. That is what the ignore project tempo option does, so why is it off by default? Then when in time timebase MIDI items, like audio, maintain their recorded timing when altering the tempo. Capice?
__________________
foxyyymusic
foxAsteria is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 09:07 PM   #44
hamish
Human being with feelings
 
hamish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Reflection Free Zone
Posts: 3,026
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PooFox View Post
The reason we have time timebase is to keep items in their time positions while adjusting tempo, no?
Well, no :P If you slow the tempo of a piece of music (a MIDI sequence) you would asssume that it will TAKE LONGER. (It should GROW on the time line)


Seriously, I do understand what you are wanting, but if new MIDI items were set to 'ignore' at the nominal project bpm regardless of what the project timebase was set to then we would get a lot of screaming that REAPER was broken!

You are talking about (please correct me if I'm wrong) making MIDI behave like audio. In fact if we do that we lose correct MIDI behaviour in many situations (namely recording MIDI to click followed by tempo change, either project tempo or tempo marker insertion)

Why I'm here doing your head in is that it may be possible your idea may just improve REAPER a whole lot if was put in the right way. I'm seriously wondering if by having the MIDI lock whenever in timbase='time' is selected and unlock when timebase is set to 'beats' that we might have a really working solution, with much easier tempo mapping for audio and MIDI recorded without click. But it may have to split items at tempo change markers... So I'm not sure how it might look and work, but I do agree something should happen.

Last edited by hamish; 01-06-2013 at 09:49 PM.
hamish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 10:44 PM   #45
foxAsteria
Human being with feelings
 
foxAsteria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 10,253
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hamish View Post
Well, no :P If you slow the tempo of a piece of music (a MIDI sequence) you would asssume that it will TAKE LONGER. (It should GROW on the time line)

>>Yes, but only in beats timebase. In Time timebase, an item at 1min32sec always plays at that time.

Seriously, I do understand what you are wanting, but if new MIDI items were set to 'ignore' at the nominal project bpm regardless of what the project timebase was set to then we would get a lot of screaming that REAPER was broken!

You are talking about (please correct me if I'm wrong) making MIDI behave like audio. In fact if we do that we lose correct MIDI behaviour in many situations (namely recording MIDI to click followed by tempo change, either project tempo or tempo marker insertion)

>>you will not lose this behavior as long as you are using Beats timebase.
Well I must correct you then... Ok. Look, I'm apparently not making myself clear. What I want is for MIDI to respond to Time timebase correctly. In time timebase, you can change the tempo but all items will be unaffected because you are not altering anything to do with time. The items are following the linear timeline, not the musical timeline. They get their positions from the static time ruler. Time doesn't change, therefore items using time as a position reference (time timebase) will never move.

Tempo changes happen relative to time. If Reaper had 2 separate rulers for time and Beats it would be more obvious. The Beats ruler would get longer and shorter with tempo changes but the Time ruler would not. In time timebase items are locked to time (they don't move) and it Beats timebase they are locked to tempo positions (which can move).

If I want logical musical behavior when I change tempo (like your description) I use Beats timebase. If I want to adapt my tempo map to recorded items without them changing in any way, I use Time timebase. If I want only my audio items to stay in time when I change the tempo, and I want the MIDI items to grow and shrink to the tempo changes, I set only my audio tracks to time timebase. Then only the MIDI are following the tempo changes. That, btw, describes the current (wrong) behavior when setting project timebase to Time. And frankly I fail when this could ever be useful.

So no, I don't want MIDI to behave like audio, I want MIDI to respond correctly to Time timebase. And yes, if it did so, MIDI and audio would respond the same way, because that's what timebase means. It tells items where to get their positions from; the tempo (which can change) or a time ruler (which does not). Currently MIDI follows ONLY Beats timebase, even when in time timebase. Which means MIDI ALWAYS stretches to adapt to tempo changes, even when I tell it to stay in its Time position.

I get that you would like to make such a change to Reaper as efficient as possible, but please understand that this request would in no way shape or form result in incorrect behavior. I'm simply asking that MIDI do what timebase tells it to by default. Since the "ignore" option essentially does this, why is it not default that we have this correct behavior?

It doesn't matter in the least that MIDI and audio are different animals. We can set 3 separate timebase settings for project, track and individual item. So any combination of behaviors can be configured for changing tempo. Right now MIDI doesn't obey any timebase but beats until you click the "ignore" option. Therefore, by default there is only one behavior you can expect from MIDI, regardless of timebase.

Please tell me this makes sense? It sounds to me that you have never had a need for Time timebase, which is the case for most it seems. Obviously speeding or slowing a project should make it shorter or longer, but what if you just want to adapt the tempo to an existing recording? Easy, switch to Time timebase, the items are locked their time positions, once it's lined up, go back to Beats timebase and you can alter the tempo like normal.
__________________
foxyyymusic
foxAsteria is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 10:03 PM   #46
hamish
Human being with feelings
 
hamish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Reflection Free Zone
Posts: 3,026
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PooFox View Post
Please tell me this makes sense? [snip ..] switch to Time timebase, the items are locked their time positions, once it's lined up, go back to Beats timebase and you can alter the tempo like normal.
Yes, it makes sense!! Of course you realise that the MIDI would have to be unlocked (ignore un-checked) when you go back to Beats? Just checking!! : )
hamish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2013, 01:56 AM   #47
foxAsteria
Human being with feelings
 
foxAsteria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 10,253
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hamish View Post
Yes, it makes sense!! Of course you realise that the MIDI would have to be unlocked (ignore un-checked) when you go back to Beats? Just checking!! : )
dude just try it out. this is not the case. I even made you a licecap in the OP...
__________________
foxyyymusic

Last edited by foxAsteria; 01-08-2013 at 12:30 PM.
foxAsteria is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2013, 05:41 PM   #48
hamish
Human being with feelings
 
hamish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Reflection Free Zone
Posts: 3,026
Default

Hey! Wow!

Ok, I just did a test recording a MIDI item to an audio loop in time, then locked the recorded MIDI to project bpm and I'll be stuffed!! It stays in sync with an audio loop with multiple (non ramping) tempo changes and back and forth changes to project tempo AND switching project timebase between beats and time. That really surprised me. [edit - MIDI and audio do get out of sync once you have tempo change markers and change project bpm]

I'll revisit my earlier test where I got the unwanted behaviour. It must have be when recording in beats and then locking I guess.

But hey, apologies for being a donkey and sorry for any hair you had to pull out!!

Last edited by hamish; 01-08-2013 at 06:38 PM.
hamish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2013, 06:26 PM   #49
foxAsteria
Human being with feelings
 
foxAsteria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 10,253
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hamish View Post
But hey, apologies for being a donkey and sorry for any hair you had to pull out!!
no worries
__________________
foxyyymusic
foxAsteria is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2013, 07:16 PM   #50
hamish
Human being with feelings
 
hamish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Reflection Free Zone
Posts: 3,026
Default How locked MIDI items get out of sync with tempo changes

.. in four easy steps

1) Record your MIDI item



2) Lock it (the feature request)



3) Add a tempo change marker



4) Your MIDI is screwed (as you would expect)

hamish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2013, 07:19 PM   #51
hamish
Human being with feelings
 
hamish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Reflection Free Zone
Posts: 3,026
Default

But Poo Fox is right too! I'm looking at the project where the audio and MIDI stayed in sync, because I'm sure I put in tempo change markers and things were sweet! There's something subtly different (and it is not whether you record in 'time' or 'beats' as I tried!!)

[Edit]

I think the confusion has been that you're talking about keeping MIDI and audio in sync, which locking does, but I've been talking about MIDI staying aligned with the grid.

Really!! We've just been at cross purposes I think. I accept the blame. I probably didn't read it well enough. Sorry again.

Last edited by hamish; 01-08-2013 at 07:27 PM.
hamish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2013, 12:41 AM   #52
G-Sun
Human being with feelings
 
G-Sun's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Norway
Posts: 7,318
Default

I believe the possibility to set midi-events timebase to time would solve all this in an elegant way.
__________________
Reaper x64, win 11
Composer, text-writer, producer
Bandcamp
G-Sun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2013, 04:43 AM   #53
hamish
Human being with feelings
 
hamish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Reflection Free Zone
Posts: 3,026
Default

I agree... while it's great that we can set items to either project timebase or have them to over-ride it the 'Ignore project temp' is just so confusing I think there should be a global lock/unlock MIDI to time switch. (which auto-fills the MIDI item properties)
hamish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2013, 09:24 AM   #54
Reno.thestraws
Human being with feelings
 
Reno.thestraws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Belgium
Posts: 10,474
Default

I've posted an FR in 2011 about this

http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=3745
__________________
http://www.residenceemilia.com
Reno.thestraws is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2013, 12:20 PM   #55
foxAsteria
Human being with feelings
 
foxAsteria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 10,253
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hamish View Post
I agree... while it's great that we can set items to either project timebase or have them to over-ride it the 'Ignore project temp' is just so confusing I think there should be a global lock/unlock MIDI to time switch. (which auto-fills the MIDI item properties)
wouldn't it work to have the switch automatic? when you go to beats it turns off and back on when you go to time timebase. i think you're right though, easiest solution is to make an action for the ignore option. we can macro that into our workflow as long as it works on multiple items.
__________________
foxyyymusic
foxAsteria is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2013, 04:05 PM   #56
hamish
Human being with feelings
 
hamish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Reflection Free Zone
Posts: 3,026
Default

[sorry for not getting back earlier than this} Yeah, the idea that the switch would be automatic when you change project timebase is very interesting. That way the MIDI Item source 'ignore' properties could remain hidden for a lot of work.

I'm glad Reno.ts posted, as he has thought about the auto insert of recorded bpm too. (the bpm field after 'ignore project tempo') I believe REAPER should auto up date this field in MIDI source items each time a new item is recorded. Currently (afaik) it just has 120 from the 'factory' default tempo, doesn't even update if you make a new default project bmp. As you have correctly pointed out earlier, it is quite easy to lose this info.
hamish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2013, 12:37 PM   #57
Konda
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2
Default +1

This problem is clear and easy to understand , i dont see the talking around it. When i faced this i was like okay im just going to get the items to set timebase to time. But when it did not work i was like wtf. Imo it works like beats mode.

Thanks for the replies of others , i can use the source properties ignore project tempo to get reaper to act like i want ,but doing it to multiple recordings or editing the project on notepad is clumsy.

This is really basic stuff really also imo because im going to face this everyday as long as i work like i do , recording some live stuff on vst to midi , wanting later to set the project tempo to about what i just played etc..

Offtopic : Im new to forums i want to say that i like the fact that people here are actually intrested on making this sequencer work well and its already my favorite one ,having gone through everything there is. Like if you go to Ableton Live forums and ask why are there no curve tools to use for automation. People will tell you you are stupid and you can draw them by hand. Thats not a way to make stuff work

Last edited by Konda; 01-24-2013 at 12:45 PM.
Konda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2013, 07:11 PM   #58
foxAsteria
Human being with feelings
 
foxAsteria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 10,253
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konda View Post
Offtopic : Im new to forums i want to say that i like the fact that people here are actually intrested on making this sequencer work well and its already my favorite one ,having gone through everything there is. Like if you go to Ableton Live forums and ask why are there no curve tools to use for automation. People will tell you you are stupid and you can draw them by hand. Thats not a way to make stuff work
yea, it's how a community should be (for the most part). so, welcome, it's only going to keep getting better from here and it's certainly the only DAW around I can say that about (also having tried all the others). I've only been with Reaper for a couple years, but already many suggestions and fixes I've recommended have been implemented. That's a good feeling.
__________________
foxyyymusic
foxAsteria is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 11:03 AM   #59
foxAsteria
Human being with feelings
 
foxAsteria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 10,253
Default

how bout a little more love for these little bastard midi items? (in the form of votes)

http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=4530
__________________
foxyyymusic
foxAsteria is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 11:48 AM   #60
nightscope
Human being with feelings
 
nightscope's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,145
Default

I vote fer the lil' bustards.



ns
nightscope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 07:19 PM   #61
hamish
Human being with feelings
 
hamish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Reflection Free Zone
Posts: 3,026
Default

I just did a post graduate course on MIDI, where we analysed, edited and wrote a bunch of sequences. I was the only one using REAPER, with others on Logic, Pro Tools and Cubase. I was able to do anything and everything that everyone else could, and one of those things was a pretty stiff tempo mapping and quantization exercise.

When we compared notes, only the guy on Cubase 7 was able to do it more easily than me. Cubase has 'linear' (REAPER: 'time') and 'musical' (REAPER: 'beats') mode for the timeline. It seems the locking of the midi data happens behind the scenes when you switch time mode.

So I'm pretty sure REAPER could do that like this:
1) insert the correct tempo into the item field at the time it was recorded (new feature)
2) 'ignore' (globally on each item) when the user switches project timebase

(Then you map tempos - the sequencer still needs a human to decide where the bars are)

3) 'glue' (re-set delta time for events) and 'un ignore' on return to beats mode.

Cubase was even better though in that you could just click-drag on barlines. But hey, even 2) above would be a start. Oh yeah and then refine the 'glue' action so we don't lose item colours, item notes, or close the MIDI editor and those annoying things.

Last edited by hamish; 05-14-2013 at 09:14 PM.
hamish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 10:08 PM   #62
foxAsteria
Human being with feelings
 
foxAsteria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 10,253
Default

NS-thanks!
hamish- admittedly, this is the closest i've been to being able to work the way i had envisioned when i stopped working in Buzz 10 yrs ago, but the problems i run into come from having many small midi items, which can quickly become an unmanageable mess if you're not careful.

Reaper is the best DAW i've used mainly due to customization options. But to my mind, the only time MIDI items should be referencing project tempo for position is when there is no other tempo information. In this case we might as well have a tempo marker at the start of every project and do away with project tempo altogether. I can't make any sense of using two different tempo references other than maybe video editing.

But this to me makes an even stronger case for having two separate rulers, tempo and time, and we choose which one a given track or item is following. Then you can have stretch markers to lock to a position on the ruler that you're using and all changes automatically maintain consistency.

Not as easy to do as your solution, so yea, auto ignore when switching timebase would be a good option for the existing framework.
__________________
foxyyymusic
foxAsteria is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 05:46 PM   #63
CorpDeath
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 8
Default Voted

Absolutely NEED this, even as a default new project option tick box. I am trying to free record guitar as I write, then Midi drums next, then go back and tidy things up with Temp and time signitures based on what naturally came about, then re-record the "good takes", but I need to have the midi tracks set to ignore project tempo by default.

How do you know if this is even being acknowledged by the developers?
CorpDeath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 09:32 PM   #64
foxAsteria
Human being with feelings
 
foxAsteria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 10,253
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CorpDeath View Post
How do you know if this is even being acknowledged by the developers?
you never know. it's not a popular issue for most though. i know that. there was a suggestion to edit the project file as text somewhere in the forums. it's a clunky workaround, but if you have a project where lots of midi items need changed and you don't want to do it one by one, it's the way to go.
__________________
foxyyymusic
foxAsteria is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2013, 08:45 PM   #65
foxAsteria
Human being with feelings
 
foxAsteria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 10,253
Default

I beg you, REAPER Gods!!! Need this so very badly!! So tired of working with steady tempos because of MIDI item inflexibility...
__________________
foxyyymusic

Last edited by foxAsteria; 08-18-2013 at 12:17 AM.
foxAsteria is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2013, 08:31 AM   #66
Banned
Human being with feelings
 
Banned's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Unwired (probably in the proximity of Amsterdam)
Posts: 4,868
Default

I just want the timeline to stop resizing when I change tempo and the project is in *beats* mode. It's annoying, and a waste of CPU cycles.
__________________
˙lɐd 'ʎɐʍ ƃuoɹʍ ǝɥʇ ǝɔıʌǝp ʇɐɥʇ ƃuıploɥ ǝɹ,noʎ
Banned is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2013, 12:57 PM   #67
foxAsteria
Human being with feelings
 
foxAsteria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 10,253
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned View Post
I just want the timeline to stop resizing when I change tempo and the project is in *beats* mode. It's annoying, and a waste of CPU cycles.
huh, are you trying to edit while playing back through drastic tempo changes? doesn't bother me at all. it does that in any timebase and it keeps the same amount of time in the viewable portion of the arrangement (since time is reliably constant). why is that an issue?
__________________
foxyyymusic
foxAsteria is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2013, 01:04 PM   #68
Banned
Human being with feelings
 
Banned's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Unwired (probably in the proximity of Amsterdam)
Posts: 4,868
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PooFox View Post
huh, are you trying to edit while playing back through drastic tempo changes? doesn't bother me at all. it does that in any timebase and it keeps the same amount of time in the viewable portion of the arrangement (since time is reliably constant). why is that an issue?
Well, it's quite simple. I definitely do NOT want the same amount of TIME displayed when I change the tempo (which I'm likely to do at any point in time, for various reasons). I want the same amount of measures/beats displayed. That's why I set the project to use the beats timebase in the first place. I should just be able to change the tempo without everything resizing. The view should respect my setting to use a musical timebase for a project, but doesn't.

Btw, measures/beats are perfectly constant, regardless of tempo.
__________________
˙lɐd 'ʎɐʍ ƃuoɹʍ ǝɥʇ ǝɔıʌǝp ʇɐɥʇ ƃuıploɥ ǝɹ,noʎ
Banned is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2013, 04:12 PM   #69
foxAsteria
Human being with feelings
 
foxAsteria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 10,253
Default

well that's reasonable. just never made problems for me. i'm just more concerned about MIDI items not respecting timebase. but yea, would make sense for the view to respect it as well.

but i disagree that beats and measures are constant. tempo changes affect them. that's what tempo is, isn't it; a variable of beats and measures, mr saucy pants. a second is a second. a beat is whatever the current tempo says it is.

but whatever, it's clearly a disagreement of perspective.
__________________
foxyyymusic
foxAsteria is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2013, 08:00 PM   #70
hamish
Human being with feelings
 
hamish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Reflection Free Zone
Posts: 3,026
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PooFox View Post
but whatever, it's clearly a disagreement of perspective.
The perspective that banned is talking about is what propellor heads reason/record sequencer does, and it is more in line with a music score. However this is just a historical convention, and needn't really be adhered too.

The adjusting for bar lengths at different tempi is more more logical IMO.

A good reason (ha ha) I can see for having constant length bars would be to remind be that I'm in beats mode.
hamish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2013, 05:00 AM   #71
Banned
Human being with feelings
 
Banned's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Unwired (probably in the proximity of Amsterdam)
Posts: 4,868
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hamish View Post
The perspective that banned is talking about is what propellor heads reason/record sequencer does, and it is more in line with a music score. However this is just a historical convention, and needn't really be adhered too.
Well, I can say the same thing about using an absolute timebase. It's just a historical convention, and needn't really be adhered too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamish View Post
The adjusting for bar lengths at different tempi is more more logical IMO.
That may be true when you have *programmed* tempo changes. However, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm just talking about changing the playback tempo at any arbitrary point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamish View Post
A good reason (ha ha) I can see for having constant length bars would be to remind be that I'm in beats mode.
Well exactly, it would be consistent with the chosen timebase mode. The resizing behaviour regardless of the user's chosen timebase mode is simply not logical at all.
__________________
˙lɐd 'ʎɐʍ ƃuoɹʍ ǝɥʇ ǝɔıʌǝp ʇɐɥʇ ƃuıploɥ ǝɹ,noʎ
Banned is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2013, 05:07 AM   #72
Banned
Human being with feelings
 
Banned's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Unwired (probably in the proximity of Amsterdam)
Posts: 4,868
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PooFox View Post
[...] but i disagree that beats and measures are constant. tempo changes affect them.
Only when measured in the *absolute* timebase (time). You are describing it in terms of an *absolute* timebase. But when the user has explicitly chosen to use a *relative* timebase, that is - or rather, should be - the correct perspective.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PooFox View Post
that's what tempo is, isn't it; a variable of beats and measures, mr saucy pants. a second is a second. a beat is whatever the current tempo says it is.
No. A beat is a beat. And it takes a variable number of seconds depending on the tempo.
__________________
˙lɐd 'ʎɐʍ ƃuoɹʍ ǝɥʇ ǝɔıʌǝp ʇɐɥʇ ƃuıploɥ ǝɹ,noʎ
Banned is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2013, 06:55 AM   #73
ivansc
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
Default

And in the meantime, just as I am starting to bake this FR a birthday cake, I still find myself sneaking back to Bars N Pipes Pro for this sort of work.
*sigh*

Shame we cant vote more than once.
ivansc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2013, 07:22 AM   #74
foxAsteria
Human being with feelings
 
foxAsteria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 10,253
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
And in the meantime, just as I am starting to bake this FR a birthday cake, I still find myself sneaking back to Bars N Pipes Pro for this sort of work.
*sigh*

Shame we cant vote more than once.
yea this is one of those that i can't imagine could be hard to implement.

hmm...so would you like this little tick box ticked automatically for you?
yes, please, thanks!
not a problem!

options are never a bad thing
__________________
foxyyymusic
foxAsteria is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2013, 07:59 AM   #75
LugNut
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: So Florida
Posts: 1,427
Default

Hi,

btw have u checked out Breeders new sws actions? Theres one in there that allows u to select multiple midi items and set ignore tempo ONCE!...yay? and a bunch more!

Lug

Its in a wiki somewhere describing all of it...searching....here tis....

http://wiki.cockos.com/wiki/index.ph...pping_with_SWS
LugNut is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2013, 02:14 PM   #76
TimTyler
Human being with feelings
 
TimTyler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Central US
Posts: 51
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PooFox View Post
I guess most record to a click, which I sometimes do, but I find it very limiting and distracting. Too often it throws me off when I hit record and I lose my groove.

The problems you will encounter before you know what's going on are utterly inexplicable and intensely frustrating. Simply adding a tempo marker in a project of MIDI and audio was enough to just destroy an entire project if I didn't notice right away.


All that needs to happen is that MIDI item internally correspond to a fixed tempo rather than a tempo that you might decide to change later (project tempo). That fixed tempo can be later synced to the dynamic project tempo without issue. There is ablsolutely no reason I can see that using a native action like "Create measure from time selection" on a piece of MIDI I just recorded should alter the MIDI item when it's clearly designed to adapt the tempo to it.

The really crazy part is that by default, if you are in Time timebase, MIDI item starts remain fixed to time position but stretch when you change the project tempo after the fact, creating gaps or overlapping items. This is not only counterintuitive, but completely useless is is not? When would anyone ever want this? It's an illogical mix of time and musical timebase (they keep their start position based on time but but the end follows the tempo.

How many people have been happily editing away at a project only to find later that some midi items earlier in the project are somehow hopelessly out of sync? It's maddening and has cost me countless hours to manually sort out. There's just no reason for it.
Oh my... Now I understand what's going on with my midi recordings combined with audio. Imagine doing a midi string orchestration for a rubato (original song) acoustic piano recording. Edits are made in the audio - then I discover ALL the midi parts are jumbled. What a nightmare. I'm now watching this FR very closely.
__________________
"...if it's worth producing, it's worth over-producing."

Last edited by TimTyler; 08-19-2013 at 02:38 PM.
TimTyler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2013, 02:39 PM   #77
foxAsteria
Human being with feelings
 
foxAsteria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 10,253
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LugNut View Post
btw have u checked out Breeders new sws actions? Theres one in there that allows u to select multiple midi items and set ignore tempo ONCE!...yay? and a bunch more!
bloody hell, no i did not! that's some exceedingly helpful shit, how long's it been there?
__________________
foxyyymusic
foxAsteria is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2013, 04:43 PM   #78
hamish
Human being with feelings
 
hamish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Reflection Free Zone
Posts: 3,026
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LugNut View Post
Hi,

btw have u checked out Breeders new sws actions? Theres one in there that allows u to select multiple midi items and set ignore tempo ONCE!...yay? and a bunch more!

Lug
Hey you're pretty cluey for a noob 'Lug', thanks!!. btw what happened to 'guido'?
hamish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2013, 01:52 PM   #79
LugNut
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: So Florida
Posts: 1,427
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hamish View Post
Hey you're pretty cluey for a noob 'Lug', thanks!!. btw what happened to 'guido'?

Hi..

Ha!...u got me!

My other partition died...and i couldnt renumber my forum password..AND i couldnt get the site to resend me my pass^^...and so on...

btw pooFox..its relatively new stuff..Great aint it!

Guido...er Lug
LugNut is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2013, 02:43 PM   #80
foxAsteria
Human being with feelings
 
foxAsteria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 10,253
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LugNut View Post
btw pooFox..its relatively new stuff..Great aint it!
Glorious! I can now tempo map midi items on the fly without worry! (pending actual usage testing...)
__________________
foxyyymusic
foxAsteria is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.