Comparing reverb plugin quality - What should I be listening for?

[DeathByGuitar]

Simple question: what makes one reverb sound better than another? Other than personal preference in terms of "color" and whatnot, of course. What is it that makes such brands such as Relab, Lexicon, Altiverb, Bricasti ect. so highly regarded?

The reason I'm asking this question is because I'm trying to learn what to listen for when determing a reverb's quality. I've been using the Fractal FAS-FX Reverb for a while and really like it but don't quite know how to compare it objectively to other reverbs. The president of Fractal Audio says FAS-FX Reverb sounds better than all the reverb plugins he's tried so I'd like to know why he's arriving at that conclusion other than bias.

Thanks

[Softsynth]

Many of us got the Eventide 2016 "Stereo Room" reverb for free with a manufacture promotion.
A new upgrade came out today in the shape of the full SP2016 VST. Currently an upgrade for $29 (might be worth adding to the collection).

https://www.eventideaudio.com/produc.../sp2016-reverb
That's based on a reverb from 1982. It doesn't sound realistic or terribly sophisticated with long reverb times in classic mode (there is a stepping sound, like the delay lines are audible in long reverb times), instead it offers pleasing early 80s style colouration. That is unless it is used with subtlety (short reverb times, fairly dry mix).
SP2016 and 2016 can sound pleasant, like Valhalla reverbs but different. I can easily recommend Valhalla vintage for retro and modern reverb sounds too.

Anyway back to your question...

That's very subjective as accuracy/realism might not be the aim of the game. I have a multitude of reverbs. It's like picking flavours.

So many variables - do you want it to sound like a real room, a real plate, a real spring - or do you want it to sound like 80s emulations of those things (valhalla vintage etc), or perhaps extremely close to reality but slightly synthetic in a pleasing way? (Bricasti M7 convolutions) What's more those reverbs used carefully were already quite capable of sounding naturalistic, despite being far more simple in nature.

You should use your ears and perhaps a reference of tracks that you like that had a certain stlye of coloration that you enjoyed.
Use your search engine to find out what reverb was used in a favourite track and go from there.

Some tracks reverb should only be noticeable when you remove it. Others are intentionally washed in reverb as an effect.

Never heard of that one. Sounds smooth in the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PN9GuCYqkdQ&t=1s

The Fractal Audio guy might be biased regarding their own products!

[DeathByGuitar]

Originally Posted by Softsynth

Many of us got the Eventide 2016 "Stereo Room" reverb for free with a manufacture promotion.
A new upgrade came out today in the shape of the full SP2016 VST. Currently an upgrade for $29 (might be worth adding to the collection).

https://www.eventideaudio.com/produc.../sp2016-reverb
That's based on a reverb from 1982. It doesn't sound realistic or terribly sophisticated with long reverb times in classic mode, instead it offers pleasing early 80s style colouration. That is unless it is used with subtlety (short reverb times, fairly dry mix).
SP2016 and 2016 can sound pleasant, like Valhalla reverbs but different. I can easily recommend Valhalla vintage for retro and modern reverb sounds too.

Anyway back to your question...

That's very subjective as accuracy/realism might not be the aim of the game. I have a multitude of reverbs. It's like picking flavours.

So many variables - do you want it to sound like a real room, a real plate, a real spring - or do you want it to sound like 80s emulations of those things, or perhaps extremely close to reality but slightly synthetic in a pleasing way? What's more those reverbs used carefully were already quite capable of sounding naturalistic, despite being far more simple in nature.

You should use your ears and perhaps a reference of tracks that you like that had a certain stlye of coloration that you enjoyed.
Use your search engine to find out what reverb was used in a favourite track and go from there.

Some tracks reverb should only be noticeable when you remove it. Others are intentionally washed in reverb as an effect.

Very helpful insights, thanks. And yeah, I've got SR2016 like everyone else and saw the new Eventide today. That's what got me thinking about this. I've got a few already. TB Reverb 4, Little Plate, Fractal FAS-FX, ect. Seems like I might be overthinking this, in true DeathByGuitar fashion.

And yeah I assume by default that people who work at a company prefer their own products, but FAS-FX is still quite nice. They tried to sell it for 300 bucks but I don't think anyone was buying it. It's been on sale for 80 forever and I feel like it's worth that. Too bad they only give you 1 iLok registration instead of 2 like most companies do.

[ivansc]

Curious about that fractal reverb but on their site it is all there demo`ed etc., but when I went to the online shop to get a price it doesnt show up...

Any ideas?
EDIT: $200 according to that youtube review. Bit too hot for my blood... Maybe I should get VVV after all.

[DeathByGuitar]

Originally Posted by ivansc

Curious about that fractal reverb but on their site it is all there demo`ed etc., but when I went to the online shop to get a price it doesnt show up...

Any ideas?
EDIT: $200 according to that youtube review. Bit too hot for my blood... Maybe I should get VVV after all.

It's 80 bucks. Has been that way for a while. It's permanently on-sale these days.


https://shop.fractalaudio.com/FAS_FX...s-804-0001.htm

No demo unfortunately but I could run some material through it and upload a video of it if you like. If you had any particular stuff you wanted to run through it, I mean.

[Softsynth]

Valhalla Vintage Verb can sound lovely, with lots of different algo settings for all kinds of tonal colours including modern reverb settings.


That Fractal reverb is a not inconsiderable $80.
I doubt it's worth bothering with now as they have not shown enough faith in the product to have produced a demo version after all this time. Maybe it isn't very stable across platforms/VSTis or is straight up flakey?

An algo reverb without a demo version c'mon!!!

[endorka]

I like reverbs that please my ear.

I like it when I put a reverb on something and it pleases a client's ear.

I like it when this happens quickly without having to spend ages tweaking parameters. Suddenly you are somewhere else :-)

Objectively speaking, I think a good reverb should sum to mono well.

Valhalla vintage and plate verbs have been really good in these ways. There's a great 'drum room' impulse in ReaVerb that works well too.

I've heard great things about the Bricasti reverbs but never had the opportunity to compare them to Valhalla. Would be interesting to hear from anyone who has.

Cheers,
Jennifer

[Softsynth]

Originally Posted by endorka

I like reverbs that please my ear.

I like it when I put a reverb on something and it pleases a client's ear.

I like it when this happens quickly without having to spend ages tweaking parameters. Suddenly you are somewhere else :-)

Objectively speaking, I think a good reverb should sum to mono well.

Valhalla vintage and plate verbs have been really good in these ways. There's a great 'drum room' impulse in ReaVerb that works well too.

I've heard great things about the Bricasti reverbs but never had the opportunity to compare them to Valhalla. Would be interesting to hear from anyone who has.

Cheers,
Jennifer

"Summing to mono"
The "Sanctuary" mode is a mono input mode within the valhalla Vintage. Maybe that will perform best of all in that regard?

Anyway Reverberate 2 has a full collection of all the factory settings of Bricasti M7 in special multiple IR reverbs called "Fusion IR". They are also "true Stereo"

https://www.liquidsonics.com/software/reverberate-2/
https://www.liquidsonics.com/fusion-ir/reverberate-2/


Then they have the more expensive Seventh Heaven plugin which emulates the UI of a real Bricasti and appears to load the multi IRs quicker. Also they have a cut down version with far less presets.

I like Reverberate 2 but it's more fiddly than Valhalla Vintage. I like the latter for the 70s Lexicon style sound. The former is impressive though. You should try the demo version, if you don't mind convolution size reverb downloads.

If you've already got a decent convolution reverb you can use these free M7 IRs:
http://www.samplicity.com/bricasti-m...lse-responses/
These are regular IRs.

[karbomusic]

What Jennifer said. As much as I'd like to be a reverb snob (I have plenty of them to prove it), I'm not. I don't care what kind it is (algo, convo etc.), if it works on whatever I chose it for, it works - the type may enter my mind when choosing but it's not that strict of a choice when I do.

I'd suggest not falling in love with the sound when being demo'd, because that's always a completely different experience than actually using it.

The only other tidbit is I'll often grab some verb, put it on a track in a bit of a hurry, with the intention of being more critical and finding a better match later - but almost every time, the original instinct was the better choice.

[ReaMike]

The better quality algorithmic reverbs tend to exhibit less ‘ringing’ or modal build-up. They also tend to work well at smaller settings and with very short reverb times. Sounds with a short sharp transient are the best for ‘exposing’ the quality of an algorithmic reverb.

Having said that, it’s purely about what you think sounds right given the context.

[Steviebone]

I'd say convolution is best for long tails at the expense of CPU. Short slaps can be done well by algorithmic with much less CPU hit. I prefer double tracking or very short delay to most "short" reverbs tho. Too much reverb can create mush in a mix if you're not careful. But then that's a subjective observation. I use Altiverb and Aether alot. But sometimes a good ole Lexicon/PSP works well too. There are soooo many out there to chose from.

With regards to convolution, it may be more about the IR's than the engine.

[Softsynth]

Originally Posted by Steviebone

I'd say convolution is best for long tails at the expense of CPU. Short slaps can be done well by algorithmic with much less CPU hit. I prefer double tracking or very short delay to most "short" reverbs tho. Too much reverb can create mush in a mix if you're not careful. But then that's a subjective observation. I use Altiverb and Aether alot. But sometimes a good ole Lexicon/PSP works well too. There are soooo many out there to chose from.

With regards to convolution, it may be more about the IR's than the engine.

Then Fusion IRs muddy the water with regard to that question as they require Liquidsonics software engine.

How long to you mean - real world long or lush FX pad sounds?
Algorithm reverbs tend to lend themselves better to super long FX reverbs, rather than stretching IR convolution files. Liquidsonics Reverberate and other hybrid reverbs can stretch IR reverbs far beyond anything realistic but they aren't designed to compete with the likes of Eventide Black hole.

[Softsynth]

Originally Posted by DeathByGuitar

No demo unfortunately but I could run some material through it and upload a video of it if you like. If you had any particular stuff you wanted to run through it, I mean.

Thanks for the offer. It's not your fault the company cannot be bothered to produce a demo version.

[jpanderson80]

Reverbs are strongly source-dependent. One could say that they are mix dependent.

For instance, a nice smooth reverb is appreciated on an exposed vocal track, but a gritty "lo-fi" verb, may be just right on a snare track in a dense mix.

Several folks have made great comments about things to listen for. I think that listening in the mix is more valuable. Even the idea of a ringing, could be a cool effect, if the song calls for it and it fits. Or it could be a disaster.

Workflow matters too... some folks choose a reverb early and let it help mold the vibe. Others chose the reverb later in the process to help accentuate the other decisions. It just depends.

[sostenuto]

Originally Posted by Softsynth

Thanks for the offer. It's not your fault the company cannot be bothered to produce a demo version.

Valhalla DSP is great way to Demo several highly respected Reverbs, per OP question.
Choosing some @ $50. each is money well spent after sorting individual User needs.
Many fine Presets for learning, and same GUI makes life easy

[brainwreck]

I don't like ringing in reverb, which is why I don't like the builtin Reverberate. If the metallic ringing could be tamed, it would be more usable to me.

I also haven't found any that sound like convincing rooms. Most of them seem to shoot for big washy surreal sounds.

Also, I haven't really found any digital reverbs with some grittiness to them. They tend to sound too smooth to me. It might be worth trying running reverb through a parallel distortion. I haven't tried that.

On the whole, I really like the sounds of real room sounds, springs, and plates. Much less so these days the big washy sounds.

[Softsynth]

We don't need half these toys, they are just nice to have.

Sometimes you can ignore so called reverb plugins and use delay instead (or both). Some products really blur the line.

Originally Posted by sostenuto

Valhalla DSP is great way to Demo several highly respected Reverbs, per OP question.

Choosing some @ $50. each is money well spent after sorting individual User needs.

My prehistoric broadband loves those tiny little 2mb downloads too!

Originally Posted by brainwreck

I don't like ringing in reverb, which is why I don't like the builtin Reverberate. If the metallic ringing could be tamed, it would be more usable to me.

I also haven't found any that sound like convincing rooms. Most of them seem to shoot for big washy surreal sounds.

Also, I haven't really found any digital reverbs with some grittiness to them. They tend to sound too smooth to me.

True, but some of us like that on some material.

Try this for something perhaps closer to what you are after:
https://u-he.com/products/protoverb/

[DeathByGuitar]

These are all very informative posts. Thanks for your insight.

[northwoodmediaworks]

This was a great freebie/promo at the time, I still call it up now and then. https://www.tcelectronic.com/Categor...oogtrans(en|en)

[_Stevie_]

Originally Posted by ReaMike

Sounds with a short sharp transient are the best for ‘exposing’ the quality of an algorithmic reverb.

Very good tip, thanks! I've got the same problem. I have tons of different Reverb FX, but find it hard to judge them. Maybe the whole reverb topic is overthought, anyways.