Old 09-29-2020, 03:19 PM   #1
mykrobinson
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Default VCA Folder Tracks

If this already exists, please tell me...

I'd LOVE the option to make a Folder Track act as a VCA Lead instead of the way it functions now. I want to emphasize the term "option" here.

Use case scenario: You have a folder called Vox Folder, and inside are tracks Vox 1, Vox 2, Vox 3, and Vox 4. Each of these is sending to an FX Send that exists outside the folder with post fader sends.

Later down the road, you have all you vocals mixed pretty well but need to turn them down as a group while retaining the mix relationship they have with each other, you simply automate or turn down the Vox Folder track, which achieves the desired volume. BUT, the FX Send track is still kicking out full volume, even if you turn Vox Folder all the way down.

A VCA Lead/Follow model would give the desired effect, i think, which is to turn down the vocals proportionally, but also reduce their sends, all while retaining the organizational structure and collapsibility of the folder.

thank you for your consideration.
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Old 01-23-2021, 11:51 PM   #2
adcingeo
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Hi mykrobinson,

It is possible to achieve what you're describing, albeit with an extra track for routing. It looks more complicated than it is...

Here's the example setup:
1. Create 3 source vocal tracks: Vox 1, Vox 2, Vox 3
1.1 Add any sends from the source vox tracks to effects etc.
2. Create a Vox Folder track as a parent folder to the 3 source vocals: Vox Folder
3, Create a "Vox Buss" track to route the vocal audio to/through
4. Turn off the Master send on the three Vox source tracks so they don't send to the parent folder.
5. Create sends from each of the vocal tracks to the Vox Buss track.
6. Add Vox Folder as a VCA Lead on the Track Group of your choice
7. Set the 3 Vox source tracks as VCA Follows on the same Track Group.

Now the folder track fader acts as a VCA to the Vox source tracks, keeping the relative send ratios etc.

The audio doesn't pass through the folder track but instead heads to the buss track.

It took way longer to type all that than it took to do it in REAPER.

Hope that helps.

Here are some images of what I mean...


(In case anyone wonders, the I'm using theme is Commala 5)
Attached Images
File Type: gif REAPER VCA Folder 1 sml.gif (59.7 KB, 210 views)
File Type: gif REAPER VCA Folder 2 sml.gif (56.9 KB, 205 views)
File Type: gif REAPER VCA Folder 3 sml.gif (49.2 KB, 195 views)
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Old 04-08-2021, 12:09 PM   #3
nickstomp
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Default Vca folder would be amazing

Hi as you see from previous response this is possible but very complicated.
Vca folder should be something that passes audio but that the volume/panning of the track act as a vca -> multiply the current value in the sub tracks.
Having a special"vca folder" would make really easy and obvious to see what tracks are in a group -> as the current way of the"grouping"option is cumbers ok me.

The main issues with folders is that the sends don't follow the folder volume
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Old 04-08-2021, 08:28 PM   #4
karbomusic
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Send the sends through the folder first on higher channels such as 5/6 instead of a VCA. Then send 5/6 from the folder to 1/2 wherever the send was originally supposed to go. Some here call them stealth sends.

Now when you pull the folder fader down, it also turns down those secondary channels the sends are running on.

This also allows you to use a non-linear plugin like a compressor on the folder which you can't with a VCA because you get a different version of the same issue, the VCA will cause the children to hit the compressor softer/harder but with this method and no VCA, the folder volume is after the compressors input.
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Old 04-08-2021, 09:20 PM   #5
ashcat_lt
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Edit - Actually, in all honesty, I'm not against this request. I don't see much hope for it in the state it is now. You're not going to get a menu where you pick a track type and say "ok make me a VCA Folder Track" as a basic function in Reaper. A more realistic request might be a track level option to decouple the fader from the the volume of the audio passing through the track. Then the fader is free to act as a VCA lead if you want, but I'm sorry you're probably still going to have to set it up in the Grouping Matrix anyway.



But my original response to this was:
Quote:
Yep. What karbo said. We've been calling it "stealth sends". Coachz has a script around here that it will set most of it up for you.


This comes up over and over. First you try a folder, then realize the sends from individual tracks aren't following the folder, so you try to make a VCA.

If you actually make the folder a VCA, you quickly figure out that this doubles the adjustment on what comes out the folder but not the sends, so that the sends still aren't actually following what the folder is doing.

Then you make some other track the VCA lead, or like above use the folder as the lead, but send the audio to some other track. Either way, it needs another track.

Then you realize that changing the VCA lead is changing the level that things are hitting the bus compressor.

Then you go to stealth sends, and both of those things pretty much just work.













Then you realize that the sends are dynamically different from what's coming out the folder, and if that bothers you in a way that can't be solved by just compressing those channels before sending them from the folder...well, you might want to seek a different kind of help, but if your medical professional signs off, I think I can offer a solution or two to that.

Last edited by ashcat_lt; 04-08-2021 at 09:35 PM.
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