Old 08-25-2018, 08:31 AM   #1
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Default Proof of concept

I recorded this short jam test using real 4-channel acoustic drums, my electric bass, and a couple of tracks of my electric guitars for some audio tracks.

Then I put an instance of Guitar Rig on my rhythm guitar and another instance of it on the bass, to load the system up a bit, and to put a bit more grunge on them. Then I added Kontakt and tracks for orchestral strings, orchestral brass, Hammond organ, and piano for some virtual instruments.

Here's the link to the test project, and you can see all the plugins used, performance, and latency in the screen captures which I grabbed, and uploaded at the same time as typing this post and having REAPER in the background playing the song in repeat mode.

The hardware is a 2.66Ghz i5 from 2009 and a couple M-Audio 2496 cards from 1998.

Here's the audio: https://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=13772744






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Old 08-25-2018, 09:51 AM   #2
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If you right click on the performance monitor and enable the rest of the meters it will give quite a lot of interesting info. rt cpu, xruns, rt longest block, etc. Helps trouble shooting, and know how well the system is performing and how close to the cliff edge you are. CPU use is only part of the story

Nice looking dark theme, which one is it?
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Old 08-25-2018, 10:04 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Jack Winter View Post
If you right click on the performance monitor and enable the rest of the meters it will give quite a lot of interesting info. rt cpu, xruns, rt longest block, etc. Helps trouble shooting, and know how well the system is performing and how close to the cliff edge you are. CPU use is only part of the story
Nice tip! I would not have noticed that.
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Old 08-25-2018, 10:16 AM   #4
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Nice tip! I would not have noticed that.
I'll be adding that to the linux documentation thread I'm working on. BTW, you ought to check that every once in a while. As I locked it, it looks like you already read it but I'll be adding stuff to it.

Didn't you write an introduction to linux audio? It might be useful to link if I could find it again
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Old 08-25-2018, 10:27 AM   #5
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Nice work Glennbo! I just read through your other thread. Lots of really good info in there as a result of your efforts, Jack, and osxmidi lending some linux wisdom.
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Old 08-25-2018, 10:33 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Jack Winter View Post
If you right click on the performance monitor and enable the rest of the meters it will give quite a lot of interesting info. rt cpu, xruns, rt longest block, etc. Helps trouble shooting, and know how well the system is performing and how close to the cliff edge you are. CPU use is only part of the story

Nice looking dark theme, which one is it?
Cool! I didn't know you could right click the meter and get more stuff. I'm running the song in the background on constant loop, with all the meters going, and it racked up 8 RT xruns while I was enabling all the additional meters, but hasn't racked any up for Media Xruns, and I'm switching screens between REAPER and browser as well.

The theme I use is LCS Mod Short Dark. It's my favorite of all the themes I've tried.
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Old 08-25-2018, 10:48 AM   #7
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Nice work Glennbo! I just read through your other thread. Lots of really good info in there as a result of your efforts, Jack, and osxmidi lending some linux wisdom.
Thanks, I wanted to test recording something after Jack helped me tweak Linux and jack for low latency. I'm pretty much running like I run in Windows, although I do feel the drag of plugins running in WINE, once I start globbing lots of VST and VSTi plugins on. This test song was done to see how a combination of half audio and half VSTi/WINE tracks with a mix of native and bridged FX would do.

I'm more than stoked with the results, because I had planned to only run REAPER in Linux for basic tasks, and boot to the Win7 side for anything more complex. Looks like I can hang here in Linux more than I originally thought.
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Old 08-25-2018, 10:54 AM   #8
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Cool! I didn't know you could right click the meter and get more stuff. I'm running the song in the background on constant loop, with all the meters going, and it racked up 8 RT xruns while I was enabling all the additional meters, but hasn't racked any up for Media Xruns, and I'm switching screens between REAPER and browser as well.

The theme I use is LCS Mod Short Dark. It's my favorite of all the themes I've tried.
You might try to remove the -S parameter from JACK, to see if the double buffering helps with the xruns. IMO 2x64 can be considered as real hardcore...

Gonna have a look at that theme, but each time I try to change from my current theme I feel that things aren't right no matter how much I liked the screenshots
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Old 08-25-2018, 10:59 AM   #9
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Glennbo, running as you are with plugins via Wine, etc., what roundtrip latency did you end up with at a set-and-forget buffer setting?
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Old 08-25-2018, 11:38 AM   #10
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Glennbo, running as you are with plugins via Wine, etc., what roundtrip latency did you end up with at a set-and-forget buffer setting?
I'm running Jack 44.1k 24 bit 64 frames per period and 2 period/buffers. So far, I've been running it like that pretty consistently, which is identical to what I run in Windows. The roundtrip latency as Jack calculated in the other thread was this, so I guess like 9ms.

"In that case the real roundtrip latency at those settings including buffers in the interface and conversion time is as follows: (192+206)/44.1 ~ 9.0ms."
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Old 08-25-2018, 11:54 AM   #11
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You might try to remove the -S parameter from JACK, to see if the double buffering helps with the xruns. IMO 2x64 can be considered as real hardcore...
I did have a lot of things running while I was enabling the additional meters, and all the xruns happened as I was enabling them. I am already running with the -S removed as from everything I've garnered, sounds like the M-Audio cards might need the extra headroom. It's plenty tight enough still to play a guitar or bass through Guitar Rig.

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Gonna have a look at that theme, but each time I try to change from my current theme I feel that things aren't right no matter how much I liked the screenshots
Boy do I know how that goes. The two that tripped me up at first with this theme are that you have to drag-n-drop in the track display to make folders, which is easy enough if you know to do it. I didn't and was switching back to the stock theme where I had little "+" buttons to make a folder out of a track. Drag/Drop is actually a lot quicker now that I know I can do it. The other one that three me with that theme was how to bring up the track automation page, which is done by clicking the rectangular button that says "Trim/Read".
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Old 08-25-2018, 12:18 PM   #12
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I'm running Jack 44.1k 24 bit 64 frames per period and 2 period/buffers. So far, I've been running it like that pretty consistently, which is identical to what I run in Windows. The roundtrip latency as Jack calculated in the other thread was this, so I guess like 9ms.

"In that case the real roundtrip latency at those settings including buffers in the interface and conversion time is as follows: (192+206)/44.1 ~ 9.0ms."
Thanks. I'll have to read back through the thread a bit when I have free time (about to head out) to see where you got those numbers from (192+206).
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Old 08-25-2018, 12:37 PM   #13
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I'm running Jack 44.1k 24 bit 64 frames per period and 2 period/buffers. So far, I've been running it like that pretty consistently, which is identical to what I run in Windows. The roundtrip latency as Jack calculated in the other thread was this, so I guess like 9ms.

"In that case the real roundtrip latency at those settings including buffers in the interface and conversion time is as follows: (192+206)/44.1 ~ 9.0ms."
That was without the -S JACK parameter, which means that there is one buffer on the input side and 2 on the output 3x64 = 192, so I'd guess with the -S parm it would be (128+206)/44.1 ~ 7.6ms.
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Old 08-25-2018, 12:51 PM   #14
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Thanks. I'll have to read back through the thread a bit when I have free time (about to head out) to see where you got those numbers from (192+206).
Connect a cable between an output and an input, add reainsert on a track, then press ping test. The plugin sends audio out and back in, and measures how late (or early) it is.

Ideally you should use this value to configure the extra latency on the recording page, otherwise newly recorded tracks won't be properly aligned with the tracks used for playback while recording.

To be really sure that it all lines up, insert a click source on one track and record it on another, then zoom in to the sample level to verify that they actually align.

All this is because Reaper doesn't know more than the buffer size and has no idea how much "hidden" latency overhead there is, things like time of the digital to analog conversion, hardware buffers in the soundcard, and extra overhead due to USB/FW.
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