Old 11-26-2009, 04:35 AM   #41
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This thread urged me to do some test also, as I have felt strange timing problems with my MIDI keyboard and VSTIs.

I don't know if this is related but it is interesting nevertheless:

first I recorded some drumstick sample hits with shortcircuit sampler. I had click source on one track as a metronome. Little timing issues aside, when I was finished, I rendered that track (apply FX...) and put it to other track. Then I inverted that track's phase, but to my surprise they didn't cancel each other as they should have. So what I heard from original shortcircuit MIDI track wasn't the same as the rendered one.

This itself was worrying but then I rendered the whole song and another surprise! this time the end result was silence! As it originally should of course. Still this shows that what I hear during the playback doesn't match to rendered file.

Shouldn't that MIDI timing be sample accurate on the DAW?
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Old 11-26-2009, 04:40 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricM View Post
Guys, I must inform you that delaying click samples will solve your
problem only for recording one instrument to the click. The next
one you will want to play with the previous one (or any audio that
is tied to the grid) will be problematic, as click and your playing
will now be 25 - 40 ms late! It might be recorded on time, but
you can't play properly to that.

I think I'll have to check the ReaScript and see if automatically delaying
MIDI after recording is possible.
Just as I suspected. First I was excited about coming up with this idea, but soon I understood that this latency will not be constant, and the fix probably unusable. Still testing on it tho'.

As for automatically delaying MIDI, the "Reserve PDC delayed monitoring" seems to do exactly this, but not enough. Another trouble with this is that it moves the whole media item, and not the notes itself.

EDIT: After more testing in Cubase LE4, I find the same behaviour there. Tried System Timestamp, but it doesnt seem to work. (System Timestamp was a must for me in Cubase SX3. Heavy jitter problems without it.

Can anybody tell me WHY this problem exists? No point in blaming Reaper, thats for sure, but the problem persist. Does anybody have a pointer where to look next?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper.fm front page
Explode MIDI items by channel or pitch. Improved MIDI import and export, hardware MIDI timing calibration, full sysex support, and tons of other improvements.
Where can I find this hardware MIDI timing calibration? Sounds like just the tool for the job?

Last edited by Baard; 11-26-2009 at 06:49 AM. Reason: More testing
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Old 11-26-2009, 07:05 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by jbone1313 View Post
DarkStar, so is it the case that changing your sound card's latency settings causes REAPER to adjust the time at which the MIDI notes are recorded?

If so, I don't understand why REAPER would (should) care about sound card latency when recording MIDI notes. It should just record them as they are played. (Or if some "latency compensation setting" is checked, it should adjust the notes later in time them by the actual measured latency.)
We'll, I cheated a bit and dragged the clips to a beat so that I could measure the delays. [I'm not that good a keyboard player ]
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Old 11-26-2009, 07:14 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
We'll, I cheated a bit and dragged the clips to a beat so that I could measure the delays. [I'm not that good a keyboard player ]
Hey DarkStar. With your 3800+ posts here you probably have made a few friends and earned some respect on these forums

I basically NEVER request these kind of things on a forum, but could YOU maybe create an issue on the issue tracker, or maybe pull some strings? I really dont want to spend much more time on this issue. I want to get started making my music.

Its not like functional midi is a tiny issue for us who experience it. Its one of the pillars of Reaper, and a central reason why I got the program in the first place.
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Old 11-26-2009, 07:30 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Chris Ihao View Post
Its not like functional midi is a tiny issue for us who experience it. Its one of the pillars of Reaper, and a central reason why I got the program in the first place.
I dont think this is a Reaper specific issue, as Cubase LE4 gives me the same results.

I know that you dont have theese issues in Reason, but could this be due to the way Reason treats midi? It records what you hear? Someone mentioned this issue and Ableton Live in Schwaas thread earlier on.

I didnt have this issue in Cubase SX3, but then again, I always used a vsti as metronome there. (You can set up a vst in the metronome dialog, a feature I miss in Reaper. Creating click tracks is not something you want to do when working in multiple time signatures and change your arrangement alot.)

Last edited by Baard; 11-26-2009 at 07:30 AM. Reason: more specific
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Old 11-26-2009, 07:39 AM   #46
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Yeah, but maybe Reaper could be in the frontline of the battle of achieving great midi recording timing by including a "midi timing skew" of some kind. If I could just drag a slider to manually calibrate the midi to a specific amount of time (ms) or samples, I would probably not even write this comment right now

Its interesting that Cubase show the same behavior though. No reason to jump ship then. Regarding the "record what you hear", there seems to be quite a few problems with this if you read through the threads describing this method.

Having the option to easily insert a vsti as a metronome in the metronome dialogue would also be great.
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Old 11-26-2009, 09:06 AM   #47
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As I've suspected and realized after myriad posts and hours of thought about these matters, there is a valid use case for both the "record what you hear" and "record what you play" scenarios.

Record What You Hear: Good for loop recording, and quantized recording, etc.

Record What You Play: Good for non quantized recording, soloing, etc.

I don't think "record what you play" would necessarily be perfectly accurate, unless the DAW could compensate for that and make the proper adjustments.

Is it the case that when DAW's "record what you play", no adjustments are made, and the notes will always be a little inaccurate (depending on sound card latency)?

Is that what's going on here?

Is it possible for Reaper (or any DAW) to adjust the notes by the detected sound card latency?

With "record what you hear", you can always select all the notes, and drag them backwards a bit.

This post on the Ableton boards talks a lot about that: http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.p...ilit=jbone1313

From that post:

Quote:
The below also applies to Audio when recording and monitoring audio with an audio effect on your track.

When record monitoring MIDI software instruments, Ableton Live records MIDI notes and then shifts them back according to system/plugin latency. This is to represent what is heard through the speakers as opposed to what is directly played on the MIDI keyboard or Pad. This is because MIDI notes should be played actually infront of time to manually account for the system latency within Live. Thus on playback Live delays the notes to represent what was heard (when the player was trying to play the output sound in time) rather than what was directly played on the MIDI instrument.

This allows Live to remain constantly in sync with 'live playing' within a latent software environment when monitoring through this environment. Live uses this method which is different to common DAW methods due to Lives 'Live' concept - where juggling plugin and system latency is managed in the whole system on playback AND recording.
Quote:
Standard DAWs use a different management system that does not account for all latencies - although this method does not induce a MIDI recording delay. If you feel it is essential to record softsynth MIDI without Lives MIDI delay you can record into an unmonitored MIDI track and shift that MIDI recording into a softsynth track for playback
Its interesting to see how much debate went on about this stuff in the Ableton forums if you read through the posts in the links written in that Ableton post. It ultimately came down to one of the Ableton employees suggesting we make the feature request in the post I'm quoting.

Last edited by jbone1313; 11-26-2009 at 09:18 AM.
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Old 11-26-2009, 11:15 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricM View Post
Guys, I must inform you that delaying click samples will solve your
problem only for recording one instrument to the click. The next
one you will want to play with the previous one (or any audio that
is tied to the grid) will be problematic, as click and your playing
will now be 25 - 40 ms late! It might be recorded on time, but
you can't play properly to that.

I think I'll have to check the ReaScript and see if automatically delaying
MIDI after recording is possible.
Hey, I just tried to first record one track with the compensated metronome, then record another on top of that (tried both with/without click) and then added a third track based on the two first plus click.

I have to say that even if this is not ideal, its still a whole lot better than how it was while using the normal metronome. In fact there is a tendency of getting slightly more ahead again when playing together with the other tracks, but not as much as before. There are margins here as well, so maybe I played a bit eagerly in the first track, the second or the third. The notes do NOT seem to lag behind with 25 or more ms though, just to state that fact. Now, facts here are pretty subjective as we are human operators, but still...

It all boils down to the fact that it DOES sound better than it did before, and then I'm thinking of synchronization and pure listening experience. Even with a quantized drum pattern being looped in the background the notes seem to be more on target than before.
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Old 11-26-2009, 11:36 AM   #49
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@Chris: I'm assuming the latency is somewhat constant during time you are recording your parts. If that's so, is it a complete workflow-killer to do a "select-all", zoom in, and nudge the notes to the correct position? (I understand if that sucks--if anyone knows about little nags killing your workflow, its me.) But I'm honestly curious about how you feel about that.

I whined about a similar thing with Ableton, except I had to nudge to notes to the left instead of to the right.
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Old 11-26-2009, 12:12 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by jbone1313 View Post
But I'm honestly curious about how you feel about that
I have considered it, but this just feels plainly wrong when doing non quantized stuff. For instance all the notes have different positions. How do I find the "correct" one for the whole lot? I could just as well end up with something completely different than what I was playing, something which would defeat the whole point of doing non quantized recording. Using the compensated metronome I at least have a stable reference between projects and parts.

To sum it up, I wouldnt like to do that at all. I just want to record my stuff and go on. Seems like I'm out of luck no matter how you look at it though.

I just sat in my sofa thinking about this, and then I thought: "If you end up upside down, would you want the world to turn upside down, or would you turn yourself around?" I dont know if this makes any sense, but I dont see much sense in a system where you have to expect notes being played ahead to fit the rest. You would expect the rest to compensate, so that the bars could be used efficiently as a map of where you are in the world (or the musical project in this case) and a place to put your notes in correct position. This is only valid if this is in fact happening here though. I just dont know anymore, and I'm kind of tired wallowing through this with no real knowledge about what is what.
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Old 11-26-2009, 12:31 PM   #51
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It would be great if we had an option within preferences to just set an offset
in milliseconds/samples for which the MIDI Items are shifted AFTER recording.

Simple solution.

If not, there is probably a way for ReaScript to do that for us after recording,
but I have not even looked at that yet so I have no idea.
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Old 11-26-2009, 12:43 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricM View Post
It would be great if we had an option within preferences to just set an offset
in milliseconds/samples for which the MIDI Items are shifted AFTER recording.

Simple solution.

If not, there is probably a way for ReaScript to do that for us after recording,
but I have not even looked at that yet so I have no idea.
+1

This would make a much more stable reference like I mentioned in my previous post. Now, if only the right person get this message, maybe this even may become reality. Please let me know if you do look into the ReaScript solution though. Every solution is probably better than my present solution. Your first suggestion would be the best however.
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Old 11-26-2009, 01:23 PM   #53
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BTW, if a MIDI pre-delay, == play the MIDI before all other tracks,
can help here , you can try it on my signature,

it uses REAPER PDC, to make Audio/MIDI pre-delay.

if you do, please let me know how it work for you.
thanks.

for this to work,
i think you should to do this:

- open new track, name it MIDI
- add the Delay_Pan plug.
- then your VSTi, or route it to your hardware.

set the Delay_Pan to Pre delay mode

now you have control on the Pre MIDI timing.

I didn't try it, but i think it should work.

EDIT: and BTW, you don't how much REAPER is accurate with MIDI/Audio
with JS plugins, I hope also with VSTi, I can't test it now.

I made a little test with JS plugin,

I send MIDI notes in the block section,

after that in the sample section I raised a sample
in sample offset exactly equal to MIDI event offset that i already sent in the
block section

here is the screen shot of the result
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Old 11-26-2009, 01:49 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Ihao View Post
For instance all the notes have different positions. How do I find the "correct" one for the whole lot?
My idea assumes the latency remains constant, or at least that REAPER is at least capturing the notes at some constant. If that's not the case, then of course you'd have to do what you're suggesting (move each note).


Quote:
Originally Posted by EricM View Post
It would be great if we had an option within preferences to just set an offset
in milliseconds/samples for which the MIDI Items are shifted AFTER recording.

Simple solution.

If not, there is probably a way for ReaScript to do that for us after recording,
but I have not even looked at that yet so I have no idea.
If the notes are not captured at a constant rate (as in the example above), wouldn't you still have problems? You'd have the same problems as if you had done a "select all" and manually shifted the notes, right?

Shouldn't the DAW just record them properly in the first place?
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Old 11-26-2009, 02:02 PM   #55
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Hi whatsup. I always appreciate your input.

However, there is an audible pause before the note is played, which obviously will not work when recording. Also, after enabling the Delay_Pan and changing something, it doesnt react to changing settings again. If I set everything to 0.0000 it still has a delay. Weird..

Edit: Perhaps I'm doing something wrong as well, but its difficult to tell. I followed you instructions at least.
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Old 11-26-2009, 02:12 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbone1313 View Post
If that's not the case, then of course you'd have to do what you're suggesting (move each note).
I think you misunderstood me. I meant it would be difficult to select a proper reference for where to actually move the notes, knowing that the notes get placed somewhat differently. It would probably just sound weird, not like "you". I dont know what you mean exactly when talking about a "constant rate". That there are large gaps between the notes? Its never exactly "constant" when recording non quantize, as the gaps are somewhat different. But you probably know that

Quote:
Shouldn't the DAW just record them properly in the first place?
Correct. I'm getting so frustrated that I'm thinking about trying something else for reference. I just NEED to make some music soon.


Edit: Just had another thought. In guitar hero (I guess SOME of you play/have played that) you have a simple function for adjusting image/audio latency. This use a repeating click, where you strum at every click to let the game know what actual "system latency" is in play. Why not do something like this in Reaper? Should be fairly easy to implement. Anyhow, I'm even getting tired listening to myself now, so I'll just let it rest for a while. Maybe I'll just have to practice so much that I somehow adjust my timing to fit Reaper. Anyhow, so long.

Last edited by Chris Ihao; 11-26-2009 at 02:40 PM.
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Old 11-26-2009, 02:31 PM   #57
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I'm not using synthesized metronome, I'm using custom samples.
Sample metronomes have a few more advantages:

1. You can have multiple different metronomes in the same project.
2. You can have normal quarter note countings, e.g. using a kick sound or also an eigth note contings, e.g. using a bass sound, which maybe even change according to the root notes of your current chord structure, if you have any.
3. You can automate the available metronomes loudness before recording other stuff to emphasize where the song should get more energetic and where more calm, e.g. using also available song arrangements structures using their rms envelopes on your metronome track. Many cool possibilities, like automatically switching metronomes, depending on which kind of "section" you are recording currently.

Mainly house music producers might simply like a brutal bassdrum as a metronome, as the music will have anyway such kind of metronome (bum bum bum bum) in the final result. You only need to mute some sections to create some interesting flow.
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Old 11-26-2009, 02:45 PM   #58
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What are you talking about, you can load only two samples in the current metronome, and can't change them on the fly, nor automate it!
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Old 11-26-2009, 02:52 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Ihao View Post
Hi whatsup. I always appreciate your input.

However, there is an audible pause before the note is played, which obviously will not work when recording. Also, after enabling the Delay_Pan and changing something, it doesnt react to changing settings again. If I set everything to 0.0000 it still has a delay. Weird..

Edit: Perhaps I'm doing something wrong as well, but its difficult to tell. I followed you instructions at least.
you need to set it to
pre
midi - on

now this track is playing before any other track,
with the amount you set the delay sliders.

mm, I'm not sure if that what you need,
because i didn't understand so much your problem.

don't try to use the post-delay with MIDI, it doesn't work yet.
with Audio it works perfect,
also Pre-Delay Audio and MIDI works perfect.
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Old 11-26-2009, 03:02 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
What are you talking about, you can load only two samples in the current metronome, and can't change them on the fly, nor automate it!
Well, you can use normal audio tracks as metronomes also, or not?
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Old 11-26-2009, 03:04 PM   #61
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what I understand is this.
you are trying to play your hardware on one track,
but because the MIDI notes is getting with some latency
Pre Or Post

the audio in that track does not in sync with the Audio in other tracks.

so to avoid that, you need a delay plugin
that should delay the Audio Pre Or Post depending on the case.

so what you do is like that:
(forget what I wrote above)
set your project the way you want,

on the track you want to record your self,
where the VSTi is,
add the delay plug , at the end of the chain,
it should be the last plug in the chain because it delays Audio.

now if your track was playing the audio after all other tracks,
you should set the Plug to Pre-Delay mode (no need for MIDI-delay)
if your track was playing the Audio before all other tracks,
you should set the plug to Post-delay mode (again, no need for MIDI-delay)

this will work with VSTi.

(if your track route to hardware output, say some MIDI device,
the settings should be different.)
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Old 11-26-2009, 03:12 PM   #62
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Hey whatsup. Its playing "ahead", meaning that it places the notes a tad too early (not much, maybe 20-30 ms before it should). What we would need is something that automatically moves the notes this much "back" (to the right).

I'm staying out of audio until I'm done with a project though, using only midi triggering of instruments up until then, so I really dont want to mess around with audio at this point.

Also, it would help immensely (a lot) if this were able to "force" globally for midi, not just each individual track.

PS: I did try to do what you said, but it somehow didnt work well for me.
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Old 11-26-2009, 03:22 PM   #63
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Hey whatsup. Its playing "ahead", meaning that it places the notes a tad too early (not much, maybe 20-30 ms before it should). What we would need is something that automatically moves the notes this much "back" (to the right).
now I understand exactly.
in this case you need a MIDI Post-delay, that isn't ready yet.

and BTW i think it's rare that MIDI playing before, usually it's lating.
a little weird ?

anyway, when the MIDI post-delay will be ready, (don't know when) I'll let you know.
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Old 11-26-2009, 03:43 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by whatsup View Post
now I understand exactly.
in this case you need a MIDI Post-delay, that isn't ready yet.

and BTW i think it's rare that MIDI playing before, usually it's lating.
a little weird ?

anyway, when the MIDI post-delay will be ready, (don't know when) I'll let you know.
Yeah, its very weird, but surprisingly some users seem to have these issues, me included. I'm now 99% sure that its not my playing though. However, I should really test more with using Redrum (in Reason) as metronome though, as compared to some of the other solutions this one is starting to look simple

Thanks a bunch whatsup. You are a very helpful guy, and that is a very good quality. I think your english is getting better and better as well

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonE View Post
Well, you can use normal audio tracks as metronomes also, or not?
Yeah, I just think he misunderstood what you were talking about as he was talking about the built in metronome and its samples option in the comment you quoted.
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Old 11-26-2009, 04:17 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by jbone1313 View Post
@Chris: I'm assuming the latency is somewhat constant during time you are recording your parts. If that's so, is it a complete workflow-killer to do a "select-all", zoom in, and nudge the notes to the correct position? (I understand if that sucks--if anyone knows about little nags killing your workflow, its me.) But I'm honestly curious about how you feel about that.

I whined about a similar thing with Ableton, except I had to nudge to notes to the left instead of to the right.
I've been nudging my MIDI tracks for years, first with FLStudio, now with Reaper. I used to think I was alone with this issue- MIDI laying in the timeline ahead of where it was played. Sorry to see it's not just me.

First I thought it was my lowly PIII, but a new computer didn't solve the issue. New soundcard, new host, same problem.

I can't remember how I once figured out exactly how far ahead of the beat it is on my system- but I did, and now I always select all and drag the MIDI back 6 ms. It works fine for me, but I'm no concert pianist.
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Old 11-26-2009, 04:54 PM   #66
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Thanks for sharing jefe. The more we are in this boat, the better I feel.

I guess this is just a universal problem that will never get solved, except if mr. Llama and his skilled crew find an ingenious way of helping us cope with it that is
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Old 11-26-2009, 08:58 PM   #67
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Well thank you, Chris. I felt quite a sense of relief when I read this thread- although I'm sorry to discover the problem may be wide spread, it's nice to know I'm not crazy or jinxed.

I think it's strange that this problem doesn't get talked about. Is it because some people use a mouse to create parts, or because people quantize anyway, or...?

Someday we'll look back on this recording era- using a box not constructed for recording audio or MIDI, an operating system not designed for audio or MIDI, interfaces that can be completely incompatible- and wonder how we got all this good music made.

Recording into a computer can be fun, exciting, creative, but is certainly wrong-headed on many levels.
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Old 11-27-2009, 01:34 AM   #69
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Yeah, I just read some of that stuff too, EricM! I have Core2duo PC with Echo MiaMIDI soundcard and MIDI interface. And like I wrote before, I've had these similar problems.

This is what I did just yesterday and it seemed to help me (these things are little difficult to judge, because my fingers are not machine on the MIDI keyboard).

Firstly, I changed the MIDI input setting from the preferences (dbl-click or right-click and choose configuration from the MIDI input in question). Instead of Reaper doing the timestamping I changed it to High Precision System Timestamp (QPC).

After that and also with "Preserve PDC delayed monitoring" on from recording menu I managed to get much more precise and better results.

Now, this may all be just placebo, so I will continue to check it but you can try it also.

And for the record, I used my old Tracktion that has been gathering "dust" since I switched to Reaper and it seemed to have little better timing (before that trick).

But the other thing that I mentioned previously about midi VSTi track and its inverted rendered version (apply track FX...) not nulling while playback is still true, and happens with other VSTis than Shortcircuit also. But like I said, after final song rendering, they null. Bizarre.

EDIT: I just wanted to add one thing. It seemed to me that "varispeed" recording with MIDI (slowing down the rate for recording) seemed to work better with QPC also! Now, like I said this might be placebo, but if it isn't this is great! I really love this varispeed thing in Reaper but normally it has been hit or miss with MIDI.

Last edited by gavriloP; 11-27-2009 at 01:45 AM. Reason: add info
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Old 11-27-2009, 02:27 AM   #70
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Thanks gavriloP. I'll try your suggestions, report back my results.
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Old 11-27-2009, 03:49 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gavriloP View Post
Instead of Reaper doing the timestamping I changed it to High Precision System Timestamp (QPC)
Hey gavrilo. Not to be a party pooper, but I suspect you already had QPC selected. I am absolutely not sure though. I think the option to let Reaper choose in practise is only a setting to let Reaper select QPC or the other one. Reaper MAY have selected the low precision mode for you though. What about testing this low precision mode to compare?
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Old 11-27-2009, 04:37 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Ihao View Post
Hey gavrilo. Not to be a party pooper, but I suspect you already had QPC selected. I am absolutely not sure though. I think the option to let Reaper choose in practise is only a setting to let Reaper select QPC or the other one. Reaper MAY have selected the low precision mode for you though. What about testing this low precision mode to compare?
Yes, I did that and the TGT option seemed closer to what it was originally with Reaper doing the timestamping. But like you wrote before, these things are little difficult to judge.
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Old 11-27-2009, 07:52 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricM View Post
I think it's time we do some reading and find where exactly the problem lies...[
Great initiative EricM, and I agree. Its time to take a break, step back and think this through. Rushing only gives birth to frustration, and I really cant see myself using anything else but Reaper in the coming years. I'll try to read up on stuff when I just want to chill out some. Keep coming back to this thread now and then guys to share your newfound knowledge though. Keeping it alive is a great way of keeping in contact while maybe getting something done about it in the long run.

Cheers, and thanks for your interest in this thread people!
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Old 11-28-2009, 10:24 AM   #74
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Ok can we recap on your original issue Chris, as I have
pretty much concluded that my issue regarding notes being
placed ahead of time is exactly the MIDI DC for hardware
synts, as explained by jbone and schwa.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scwha
Latency is how long it takes for a MIDI note played on hardware to get recorded by Reaper, or a MIDI note output by Reaper to get played on hardware.
Reaper records only "what you play", so in case when using
hardware synths everything stays in time, as it predelays
the MIDI that needs to get to hardware on playback.

But with software synths, this compensation must be avoided
to keep the notes at the right time for synth.

Just wanted to confirm that you are experiencing the same
issue: you use hardware or software synths? Is MIDI pre-delayed
for the same amount as your input+output latency is (+/- 5ms)
or more/less?
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Old 11-28-2009, 12:24 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricM View Post
Just wanted to confirm that you are experiencing the same
issue: you use hardware or software synths? Is MIDI pre-delayed
for the same amount as your input+output latency is (+/- 5ms)
or more/less?
Its pre-delayed just a bit more I think, maybe 20-30 ms. It can be "overall latency". Havent tested with the new 31415.
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Old 11-28-2009, 12:26 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Ihao View Post
Its pre-delayed just a bit more I think, maybe 20-30 ms. It can be "overall latency". Havent tested with the new 31415.
You mean 20-30 ms more than I/O latency?
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Old 11-28-2009, 12:52 PM   #77
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I had this similar problem and now it seems to be better with QPC turned on and "preserve PDC delayed monitoring" on. It was probably 20-30 ms early before. Anyway it was enough that quantize to 16th notes always messed things up if I didn't move them forward by hand first. Now it seems to work fine with quantizing. I hope I'm not dreaming this

BTW: my ASIO latency is usually 64 samples (1.4 ms)

I have to do more testing, I hope I won't get the flu that is running around in my family... I'll get back to this if it turns out that I was imaging things.
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Old 11-28-2009, 03:44 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricM View Post
You mean 20-30 ms more than I/O latency?
No, more like 20-30 ms in total. I have 5.3 ms i/o latency. When I delay the metronome to 25, I usually get notes placed a bit "back", in contrast to "ahead". 20 ms should be pretty accurate.
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Old 11-28-2009, 03:47 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gavriloP View Post
BTW: my ASIO latency is usually 64 samples (1.4 ms)
that's really low,
wonder if you don't get audio dropdowns.
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Old 11-28-2009, 05:11 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whatsup View Post
that's really low,
wonder if you don't get audio dropdowns.
Well, I get them if song is very CPU intensive but in that case I do submixes or settle for bigger latency. It depends what I'm recording. My good old Echo MIA is old school PCI card and it doesn't have problems with it (unless there is really lots of things going on).

When I record electric guitars or bass DI with ampsims etc. I use this, and also with MIDI keyboard drumming etc. where I feel I need precision. Isn't really a problem, as I am used to this little hassle with temporal submixes.

Of course I use bigger latency when mixing.
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