$60 or $225?

heavymetal0061 · 03-28-2012, 03:57 PM

Well after having some time to drive REAPER around I feel very confident that I wish to purchase this product,,,so with that being said and myself being an individual, using REAPER only for personal use. what is the price I pay?,,,

djjedidiah · 03-28-2012, 04:00 PM

$60. That is all.

Ollie · 03-28-2012, 04:10 PM

From the purchase page:

Quote:

You may use the discounted license if any of the following is true:

You are an individual, using REAPER only for personal use.
You are an individual or business, using REAPER for commercial use, and the yearly gross revenue does not exceed USD $20,000.
You are an educational or non-profit organization.

Please ask if you have any questions on that!

heavymetal0061 · 03-28-2012, 04:12 PM

Thanks,,,that a whole lot of stuff for $60! hard to beleive..I will purchase!

heavymetal0061 · 03-28-2012, 04:16 PM

OK Ollie,,I can read that...big differance in prices,,thats why I ask is it $60 or $225.........obviosly I'm a little confused....so I am asking a question!

Superfly76 · 03-28-2012, 04:32 PM

It's the same program at both price points. The only difference is whether or not you're making money from it. Even then, you can make up to a certain amount with the personal license.

Ollie · 03-28-2012, 04:55 PM

Yeah there is only one REAPER and different license terms depending on your level of business you're doing with it. No strings attached.

heavymetal0061 · 03-28-2012, 05:37 PM

Thank you!!! $60 is a great deal!!

koolkeys · 03-28-2012, 06:03 PM

One thing I think that remained undefined, and I'm kind of curious because my work may be buying a unique license for me(they prefer to have their own license and not one owned by the employee).

Does the $20,000 need to be the money made from work USING REAPER, or just overall cash coming in from all sources? So as a freelancer, let's say for instance that I make $25,000 a year, but half of that is video work having nothing to do with REAPER. Do I still pay the higher price?

Not that I personally make that much from my freelance stuff(hence the "day job", where I do the same thing as I do at home).

Thoughts?

Brent

Bristol Posse · 03-28-2012, 07:16 PM

I'm easily $20k in the hole since starting to make music with REAPER as my DAW. Does that mean Cockos now will give me $60?

Smurf · 03-28-2012, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bristol Posse

I'm easily $20k in the hole since starting to make music with REAPER as my DAW. Does that mean Cockos now will give me $60?

^^
I'm with him!!!

but would that not be $225?

CaptainHook · 03-28-2012, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koolkeys

Does the $20,000 need to be the money made from work USING REAPER, or just overall cash coming in from all sources? So as a freelancer, let's say for instance that I make $25,000 a year, but half of that is video work having nothing to do with REAPER. Do I still pay the higher price?

My interpretation is that Cockos isn't trying to 'tax' you depending on your yearly income, just that if you make a certain amount of money from using Reaper, you need to purchase the more expensive license.

jnif · 03-28-2012, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainHook

My interpretation is that Cockos isn't trying to 'tax' you depending on your yearly income, just that if you make a certain amount of money from [u]using[u/] Reaper, you need to purchase the more expensive license.

I think you should not interpret the license pricing like that.
Cockos has stateded it clearly: "... the yearly gross revenue does not exceed USD $20,000".

And gross revenue means (from http://management.about.com/cs/admin...srevenue.htm):

Quote:

Definition: Gross Revenue is money generated by all of a company's operations, before deductions for expenses.

Revenue can come from the sale of the company's products or services, from the sale of surplus equipment or property, or from the sale of shares of stock in the company. Revenue can come from a variety of other sources, large or small. All revenue from all of the sources is added together to compute gross revenue.

Gross revenue is generally referred to for a specific period of time, such as gross revenue for the quarter or gross revenue for the year, or gross revenue for the previous year, etc.

jnif

heavymetal0061 · 03-28-2012, 10:49 PM

see what I mean!!!!I would base that income on what I make in a year,$20.000 in a year,,,playing the music that I do (Punk rock) in the stinkhole clubs, pubs and basements I play in,,I'm lucky to pocket $10 per show,,and that normally goes to my fuel tank in my junky car...I play the music and shows for the pure love I have for what I do...when I seen $60 or $225 dollars for this cool product,,it confused me! Than I get "Please ask if you have any questions on that!" I'm 50 years old.. $20.000 is alot of money for a poor punk rock dude like myself, yeah I had to question that...$60 bucks! I can handle that.........

CaptainHook · 03-29-2012, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnif

I think you should not interpret the license pricing like that.
Cockos has stateded it clearly: "... the yearly gross revenue does not exceed USD $20,000".

The wording on the page seems to suggest the gross revenue as it relates to the commercial use of Reaper.

Hypothetically, if i as a freelancer only recorded 1 commercial song for an entire year using Reaper and i only used the program that ONCE, but the other part of my freelance earnings came from say photography or anything else completely unrelated and surpassed the $20k USD revenue figure, then i would be quite disappointed and lose a LOT of respect for Cockos if they considered that to fall within the more expensive license. It also seems to go against everything they stand for (or at least what they 'project' to the public in my eye).

If i'm wrong, then as i said above i'm disappointed. But i also think they should clear up that wording since there's obviously some interpretation issues.

FYI, i have the commercial license.

l0calh05t · 03-29-2012, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainHook

The wording on the page seems to suggest the gross revenue as it relates to the commercial use of Reaper.

Hypothetically, if i as a freelancer only recorded 1 commercial song for an entire year using Reaper and i only used the program that ONCE, but the other part of my freelance earnings came from say photography or anything else completely unrelated and surpassed the $20k USD revenue figure, then i would be quite disappointed and lose a LOT of respect for Cockos if they considered that to fall within the more expensive license. It also seems to go against everything they stand for (or at least what they 'project' to the public in my eye).

If i'm wrong, then as i said above i'm disappointed. But i also think they should clear up that wording since there's obviously some interpretation issues.

FYI, i have the commercial license.

Where does it suggest that? Gross revenue is gross revenue.

bluzkat · 03-29-2012, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by l0calh05t

Gross revenue is gross revenue.

Yeah... gross revenue that was made while using Reaper!

How can you guys think that it is anything else. I'm sure Justin doesn't give a shit about how much money you make unless its money you're making with Reaper.

l0calh05t · 03-29-2012, 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluzkat

Yeah... gross revenue that was made while using Reaper!

How can you guys think that it is anything else. I'm sure Justin doesn't give a shit about how much money you make unless its money you're making with Reaper.

That is what you assume, but is it explicitly stated anywhere in the license? To my knowledge, no.

planetnine · 03-29-2012, 05:55 AM

I bought my commercial licence of REAPER before that wording was added (there was much debate over what exactly constituted commercial use). Recording and mixing form a very small part of my business (events, productions) and certainly doesn't exceed the £15,000 ($20,000) threshold set by REAPER. And then most of my recording is location recording, using hardware (HDD and CF multitrack and stereo recorders), REAPER only being used for mixdown...

See where I'm going? I guess it's down to your own conscience, seeming as this whole model is based on trust. I trialled REAPER for some months in the early days, not sure it would do what I wanted, I bought a non-comm licence while I threw some jobs at it, when I knew it was the DAW for me I bought the commercial licence (when I built a workstation so I could use it properly).

Are you using it as part of a viable commercial enterprise turning over $20k? If you feel it's not part of the money machinery and you feel ok about that, then I doubt Cockos will be breaking your door down. If you are running multiple copies on a lucrative production facility on a non-comm licence then you know you are doing wrong. Work out where you fit in and make your decision, Cockos give you the choice.

I'm personally very happy with my commercial licence. I don't get "non-comm" on my main window in front of my clients, Justin gave me a very reasonable upgrade price for v4 and I feel I did the right thing. I think that's how you must view it; are you doing the right thing. If you go looking for loopholes and try to justify to yourself things you know are not true then you're behaving like a commercial banker or a solicitor.

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xpander · 03-29-2012, 06:17 AM

I agree. To me personally it seems this simple; You have used Reaper commercially in any degree to gain gross revenue over $20.000 means commercial license.

If I used it only once during the year and the revenue from that particular project was only, say $500 doesn't matter. The real question would be, why did I use it to begin with if I didn't feel that little use was worth the commercial license.

I see no point in trying to define different degrees one uses the app commercially, there ain't even any scales for that AFAIK. As long as it participated in making the whole revenue, it must've been worth it..otherwise I wouldn't use it at all for that.

I don't really understand how this would be a matter of lost respect or such. What other company will sell you the whole app with low price and no feature restrictions at all, but you only pay the commercial price if gross revenue is above certain level? How many people have apps worth much more in their computers and never get a penny out of it commercially, no matter if they ever even used it much at all...but the price was still the full price?

Ollie · 03-29-2012, 07:19 AM

http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...66&postcount=2

Look, it's maybe not that obvious for some but if you think about it for a second... if that would mean your "overall gross revenue" that would basically render anyone "commercial" who has some kind of job below minimum wage level or a starving small business. It just wouldn't make any sense, at least in our strange little 'no strings attached' world here, or would it?

$20000 is an arbitrary limit where things are clearly leaving the sidejob/small business level and you seriously start making a living from REAPER. That's the point where you need to pay the price difference to upgrade your license to reflect that success on the title bar. But it's not like you have to send a copy of your tax return to Cockos, if you bothered to pay for the discounted license there's no doubt you will do the same when you leave the license terms at that end.

Also, only a commercial REAPER license is/will/should be a serious chick/dude magnet:: Nothing says "nice, trustworthy straightforward gal/guy" with a whiff of "good looking adventurous pirate type" like the "Commercial license" tag on the title bar. If you then mention "oh, yeah forgot to turn that off" and turn it off in Preferences - SCORE!

planetnine · 03-29-2012, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ollie

Also, only a commercial REAPER license is/will/should be a serious chick/dude magnet:: Nothing says "nice, trustworthy straightforward gal/guy" with a whiff of "good looking adventurous pirate type" like the "Commercial license" tag on the title bar. If you then mention "oh, yeah forgot to turn that off" and turn it off in Preferences - SCORE!

Nah, too brash, not sophisticated enough, I have no need to prove myself in such a way. I've optioned mine to merely say "Licenced to Planet Nine".

Edit: for the non-comm crowd aspirates, you get to decide what your header-bar reports with a commercial licence, a very nice touch. It can even be blank...

>

l0calh05t · 03-29-2012, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ollie

Look, it's maybe not that obvious for some but if you think about it for a second... if that would mean your "overall gross revenue" that would basically render anyone "commercial" who has some kind of job below minimum wage level or a starving small business. It just wouldn't make any sense, at least in our strange little 'no strings attached' world here, or would it?

well, technically gross revenue and income / wage are two entirely separate things...

planetnine · 03-29-2012, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by l0calh05t

well, technically gross revenue and income / wage are two entirely separate things...

Yes, Gross usu means before deductions and tax. Wages are already taxed. Also if I ran two different companies (separate accounts) I'd expect to count only the gross of the one I used REAPER in, if this was the case

Helpfully muddying the waters...

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