Reaper V6 Default Theme - alpha 1.0 - Page 9

White Tie · 05-01-2019, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bFooz

Solo defeat is broken

Oops, thanks.

bob · 05-01-2019, 02:53 AM

too dark and not enough contrast.I use default theme 3 because of its clarity.The transport bar for example is invisible.It would be good if you could adjust the brightness in different areas of the Ui the transport bar for example is camouflaged on my screen

alextone · 05-01-2019, 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaXyM

Did anybody begs him for doing that that you turning it against users who give constructive criticism?
Correct me but WT is a part of community like you or me. I cannot see reasons to make him untouchable.

Yeah, right. I've been here since reaper.dot, and seen just how much WT has had to tolerate over all these years.

You're right, he's not untouchable, but there's been plenty of "experts" along the way that have implied his work is amateur without offering any hint of alternatives, just words of barely hidden contempt and derision from their land of eternal entitlement.
You stated that the criticism is constructive. Read carefully back over the thread, objectively, and take note of how many posts imply he's inadequate, or not up to the task, yet none offer alternatives.

No theme is all things to all users. One person's blue is another person's saturated paisley. A default theme is just that, a default. There's arguably no other DAW that gives users so much choice if their musical output is dependent on how the app looks.

I've just installed V6 (v102) and it does what a default theme should do, imho. It's not saturated, extreme, or clunky. I'll probably not use it for the dark background in the midi editor, as that gives me more eye strain than a lighter background, but that's just me. I still have default 4 and 5 to choose from, plus a few other themes i've had a look at.

And most importantly of all, WT is not responsible for the user's musical output or lack of, stemming entirely from a theme they "feel" is inadequate.
Those users who continue to insist they cannot function without a perfect theme should perhaps heed a piece of advice from ages gone by.

"When you press playback, after composing that wonderful masterpiece, close your eyes, and use your ears......."

Alex.

WT, apologies for the added noise.

bFooz · 05-01-2019, 03:07 AM

Quote:

It would be good if you could adjust the brightness in different areas of the Ui

This is not gonna be possible probably, but what may be is to have a second theme in different lightness.

Also, one have to have properly set colors on the screen (calibration by eye goes) to see things how they were meant to be seen. I use these:

http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/white.php
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/gamma_calibration.php

MaXyM · 05-01-2019, 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alextone

Yeah, right. I've been here since reaper.dot, and seen just how much WT has had to tolerate over all these years..

Again, it's his decision to tolerate. He did a choice to stay, to offer his work, automatically agreed to potential criticism. If it had been too much he would quit. He didn't - his decision. No need to advocate him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alextone

And most importantly of all, WT is not responsible for the user's musical output

But it seems he is responsible for default look of Reaper. Default should be just default, applying all principles good GUI being neutral userbase preferences-wise. Though I'm not arguing that I don't like colours, style or so. TBH I like this colouring, layout and style in overall because it's clean - but it really doesn't matter in this discussion. I'm arguing about inconsistencies found in proposed theme. Inconsistencies objectively should be avoided in a theme which is considered default for the application.

BTW: since WT asked to avoid OTs I'm not going to continue arguing in this thread anymore. Everything I wanted to share I have done already.

sonicowl · 05-01-2019, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sexan

The only thing that bothers me is that its pretty dark and I cannot use it more than few minutes it bothers my eyes. I generally have problem with dark, dark-gray backgrounds. TCP is fine but everything else just tires my eyes really fast so I cannot give any meaningful feedback except that. But thats just me so nevermind

Same here, problem with dark themes.

sonicowl · 05-01-2019, 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaXyM

Again, it's his decision to tolerate. He did a choice to stay, to offer his work, automatically agreed to potential criticism. If it had been too much he would quit. He didn't - his decision. No need to advocate him.

This are odd things to say about anyone. I bet even you would not like to be seen in such a way.
I don't think just anybody can offer to do default theme for v6. Couldn't you imagine that WT was asked by Cockos to do the job? I really see no need to pressure him as you do above.

Coachz · 05-01-2019, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

1. I disagree with you on this. I think most of THEM are pretty damn ugly. Which leads me to believe this is a subjective topic. Not an objective one.

2. Why do you guys keep using words like "ugly", "not professional" and "amateur" as some type of persuasive technique? Does this work in your other relationships? Seriously?

The reason people ask for constructive criticism is because that's the type of information they can use. And more importantly, the type of information they will respond to.

WT is asking the community for their help because he respects the community and thinks you all can help him and REAPER be better. Or in this case, look and function correctly regarding the theme.

"ugly", "not professional" and "amateur" are valid ways to describe themes. As a designer one, response to those comments would be "what specifically do you find ugly, not professional or amateurish"? You have to be able to take input continually in this business to service your customers otherwise you are just designing for yourself.

sonicowl · 05-01-2019, 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coachz

"ugly", "not professional" and "amateur" are valid ways to describe themes. As a designer one response to those comments would be "what specifically do you find ugly, not professional or amateurish"? You have to be able to take input continually in this business to service your customers otherwise you are just designing for yourself.

What makes you think that WT is not taking input? This topic itself proves you wrong. He may not take YOUR input, but obviously he was/is/will-be taking extensive input from community.

Coachz · 05-01-2019, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alextone

So put up or shut up. Build a theme, and show us how it's done. Give us an example of your skills so we can decide for ourselves if we think you know what you're talking about, objectively.

Alex.

Dude, really? I can tell a bad ugly theme from a good one but that doesnt mean I can design one. Thats the designers job.

Coachz · 05-01-2019, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doppelganger

someone likes Blankfiles's theme better, someone likes theme in protools DAW or logic DAW better and everyone knows best of all how it should be better =), no matter what WT will do, there's still will be 100 of disappointed/"know better" guys, after R6 will come out, there will be 100 of "right" default6 themes on the stash, lol. 8 pages already and most of it are whining or offensive comments.

About, that reviewers never praised Reaper's UI design is not fault of a theme itself, REAPER's UI/UX was always ugly, even if you wear Imperial theme on REAPER, you still use other windows and JSFX plugins, which ruin any theme's feel.

This is a real problem. The theme needs to be applicable to every part of Reaper. I wish they would just hire somebody to spend the time making theming easy and complete since they dont seem ready to do the work.

Coachz · 05-01-2019, 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alextone

Yeah, right. I've been here since reaper.dot, and seen just how much WT has had to tolerate over all these years.

You're right, he's not untouchable, but there's been plenty of "experts" along the way that have implied his work is amateur without offering any hint of alternatives, just words of barely hidden contempt and derision from their land of eternal entitlement.
You stated that the criticism is constructive. Read carefully back over the thread, objectively, and take note of how many posts imply he's inadequate, or not up to the task, yet none offer alternatives.

No theme is all things to all users. One person's blue is another person's saturated paisley. A default theme is just that, a default. There's arguably no other DAW that gives users so much choice if their musical output is dependent on how the app looks.

I've just installed V6 (v102) and it does what a default theme should do, imho. It's not saturated, extreme, or clunky. I'll probably not use it for the dark background in the midi editor, as that gives me more eye strain than a lighter background, but that's just me. I still have default 4 and 5 to choose from, plus a few other themes i've had a look at.

And most importantly of all, WT is not responsible for the user's musical output or lack of, stemming entirely from a theme they "feel" is inadequate.
Those users who continue to insist they cannot function without a perfect theme should perhaps heed a piece of advice from ages gone by.

"When you press playback, after composing that wonderful masterpiece, close your eyes, and use your ears......."

Alex.

WT, apologies for the added noise.

A theme should inspire you, not just be adequate. Even a default theme.

alextone · 05-01-2019, 04:18 AM

WT,

inserted a new midi item in a track. Comes up plain white. Is this intentional?

Alex.

Jae.Thomas · 05-01-2019, 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alextone

So put up or shut up. Build a theme, and show us how it's done. Give us an example of your skills so we can decide for ourselves if we think you know what you're talking about, objectively.

Alex.

this is terrible fucking reasoning, btw.

Also, all you fuckers complaining need to contribute your ideas or thoughts in a meaningful and kind way.

Coachz · 05-01-2019, 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonicowl

What makes you think that WT is not taking input? This topic itself proves you wrong. He may not take YOUR input, but obviously he was/is/will-be taking extensive input from community.

He is defensive continually. Thats why your comment about saying I've been proven wrong is laughable.

franzwam · 05-01-2019, 04:22 AM

Guys please ...

I really and deeply agree with some of you concerning the UI flaws, but please stop polluting this thread.
Open a new one if you wish, I'd be glad to give my input and participate (if it matters ...).

I know for sure that debugging is a pain in the ass for a dev. It is not funny, not rewarding, but if it's not done properly, you face a bucket full of shit from the users (sometimes deserved).
"The Devil is hidden in the details" as we say.

I don't like everything in this v6 theme, I even despise some of the choices, but here is not the place. Would I like that WT agreed to modify the interface to make it closer to what I want? Of course ! But this is not the right thread.

EvilDragon · 05-01-2019, 04:25 AM

No other thread is going to do any good, really. There's no way to spur any changes this time around. And it sucks balls for a multitude of reasons. Maybe after a few more big number versions of Reaper get ridiculed for its default skin leaving bad impression on people causing them not to bother with it, things could change, but not this time.

franzwam · 05-01-2019, 04:26 AM

Messing with this one is on the verge of doing it ?

sonicowl · 05-01-2019, 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coachz

He is defensive continually. Thats why your comment about saying I've been proven wrong is laughable.

Dudes, WTF!

vitalker · 05-01-2019, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by franzwam

I don't like everything in this v6 theme...

If you don't like it at all, then you have problems.

This theme is almost sexy, but needs some consistency.

franzwam · 05-01-2019, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Tie

Please do if you can. Otherwise we're going to have to wait for someone else to repeat the problem and then I can report it as a possible Reaper bug. Once I've told Reaper to draw stuff, it really is out of my hands.

The behavior is OK on my desktop, even with the same USB mouse I used on my laptop.
Maybe a problem of system/environment.

From the top of my head, except all the possible usual crap (drivers or pre-installed software ...) the only difference is that my Desktop is running Windows 10 Home (or Family, don't know the current name) and my Desktop is running the Pro version.

Coachz · 05-01-2019, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vitalker

If you don't like it at all, then you have problems.

This theme is almost sexy, but needs some consistency.

I don't like it at all either but that's because the flat theme does not appeal to me at all. A flat valhalla plug-in is okay I don't want a theme to be flat. But that's just my personal taste. If we're going to talk about sexy thing now we're talkin Imperial in my world.

Jack Winter · 05-01-2019, 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coachz

If we're going to talk about sexy thing now we're talkin Imperial in my world.

Never would have guessed

Coachz · 05-01-2019, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Winter

Never would have guessed

Hahaha, and admittedly a hardware look is also not for everyone. Some people love a flat design and that's awesome.

cool · 05-01-2019, 05:26 AM

Is there any chance to improve midi editor? Now, the unselected notes are not very visible, and the controllers (velocity on the screenshot) are not visible at all.
Thank you.

vitalker · 05-01-2019, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coachz

I don't like it at all either but that's because the flat theme does not appeal to me at all. A flat valhalla plug-in is okay I don't want a theme to be flat. But that's just my personal taste. If we're going to talk about sexy thing now we're talkin Imperial in my world.

I said before Imperial is for large screens only. A default theme should be clean and flat, because those shadows, 3D-elements and console-looking design are not what an average user wants. This theme should be flat as much as possible and the contrast should be higher for better readability. The same goes for dark style. It would be cool, if White Tie added to his script switch for light/dark mode, cause this one is really important.

Coachz · 05-01-2019, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vitalker

I said before Imperial is for large screens only. A default theme should be clean and flat, because those shadows, 3D-elements and console-looking design are not what an average user wants. This theme should be flat as much as possible and the contrast should be higher for better readability. The same goes for dark style. It would be cool, if White Tie added to his script switch for light/dark mode, cause this one is really important.

Serious question. How do you know what the average user wants? I certainly do not.

vitalker · 05-01-2019, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coachz

Serious question. How do you know what the average user wants? I certainly do not.

White Tie has made the theme, so he probably knows.

Well, the theme is done and it looks cute. Now it need to be polished.

Coachz · 05-01-2019, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vitalker

White Tie has made the theme, so he probably knows.

Well, the theme is done and it looks cute. Now it need to be polished.

So what you said is speculation. Please don't make statements of fact that are just speculating. We are all in this together

vitalker · 05-01-2019, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coachz

So what you said is speculation. Please don't make statements of fact that are just speculating. We are all in this together

But I am sure more people like flat themes than 3d ones.

Coachz · 05-01-2019, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vitalker

But I am sure more people like flat themes than 3d ones.

You're really going to double down on the speculation without hard research. How many other daws have flat themes as their default?

vitalker · 05-01-2019, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coachz

how many other daws have flat themes as their default?

Cubase, Studio one, PT... Maybe some others. Yes, I'm speculating, but no one knows the truth.

White Tie · 05-01-2019, 06:11 AM

You two having a nice chat, yeah? Lovely.

Please, for crying out loud, do it somewhere else.

Coachz · 05-01-2019, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vitalker

Cubase, Studio one, PT... Maybe some others. Yes, I'm speculating, but no one knows the truth.

You're right. It's been a long time since I've looked at those daws and they look really nice for that flat look. Very consistent looking interfaces. I'm not a big fan of flat but those look really nice

+NRG · 05-01-2019, 06:16 AM

From the first post...

“Design Intent

“no two elements look the same, elements that do the same thing look the same wherever they appear, and as wide as possible a range of styling (from flat boxes all the way to big shiny chrome things) used to diferentiate elements, create a functionality-driven visual heirarchy to speed visual searching for key elements, and to create visual anchor elements to draw the eye to different sections.”

*I wish a mod would move all of the OT from this thread to a separate bitch fest thread (including this post!)

lowellben · 05-01-2019, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

Well, WT, if you think you know the most about design and there's not a forum member that could possibly know more about you on the topic, we have a problem. And a serious one, which could negatively impact Reaper for the future. There hasn't ever been a case where Reaper's default theme was PRAISED for its looks and efficiency and usability in reviews, I wonder why. Are you gonna say all reviewers are blind and clueless, now?

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

No other thread is going to do any good, really. There's no way to spur any changes this time around. And it sucks balls for a multitude of reasons. Maybe after a few more big number versions of Reaper get ridiculed for its default skin leaving bad impression on people causing them not to bother with it, things could change, but not this time.

This is what needs to be focused on.
Nobody has ever praised the default theme in such a way. This should not be ignored imo. We need a clean consistent modern theme moving forward.

"Of course, Reaper’s UI can be tweaked, but this requires a time investment or tracking down a pleasing theme."
- published 2019

Imagine how bad design is, if it's compared to Pro Tools (DAW that barely make any updates and restricted to it's core).

Until this theme nonsense drama is fixed, Reaper will continue to be stuck in the midcard. Tweakable and scriptable power, hidden by a dreary old 1990s DAW theme, putting off newcomers in droves. Only appealing to those with serious dedication or nerd skills.

Oh well. Deaf ears and all that. I'm a lot of things, but one thing I'm not is a subjective. I'm an objective.

j79 · 05-01-2019, 06:25 AM

Wow...i havent logged on to this forum for years, and the first thing i see is a bunch of people, including veterans who i used to respect, filling up an important thread with irrelevant (to this thread)nonsense.

WTF happened to this place?

Are there any moderators around these days? In that case i will suggest creating a seperate thread and having them move all posts not on topic to it with no mercy. That way people can vent and this thread can do what it was created to do.

Posts with useful content are completely drowned out atm, and it takes forever to go through the thread and find out if an issue has been reported yet...

vitalker · 05-01-2019, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Tie

You two having a nice chat, yeah? Lovely.
Please, for crying out loud, do it somewhere else.

Sorry for that. Could you please a switch for light/dark mode to the script? Is it possible?

Coachz · 05-01-2019, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j79

Wow...i havent logged on to this forum for years, and the first thing i see is a bunch of people, including veterans who i used to respect, filling up an important thread with irrelevant (to this thread)nonsense.

WTF happened to this place?

Are there any moderators around these days? In that case i will suggest creating a seperate thread and having them move all posts not on topic to it with no mercy. That way people can vent and this thread can do what it was created to do.

Posts with useful content are completely drowned out atm, and it takes forever to go through the thread and find out if an issue has been reported yet...

Nothing is being drowned out. There are a lot of intelligent users here that have a lot of valuable feedback. Read it and digest it, it isn't that hard.

franzwam · 05-01-2019, 07:03 AM

It is indeed drowned out.

I support j79's request. Please, can some mod clean that thread ?

Otherwise, people will not only thrash the default UI because it's ugly/non-consistent/whatever but also because it's buggy ...

Or maybe that's what those non-stop-off-topic folks intend to do ???