Go Back   Cockos Incorporated Forums > REAPER Forums > REAPER Pre-Release Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-06-2021, 11:40 AM   #1
Phazma
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,872
Default Render/Normalize/LUFS/Metering Discussion

Reaper v6.30 came with several new features and improvements regarding the render window, normalization and LUFS/TP calculation/metering. I guess we are going to see many more small changes and improvements in the next updates.

I believe having such a discussion thread is helpful to bring up ideas and wishes for further development, as well as report undesired behavior (if not directly related to a specific dev or rc version).

I have merged these branches in 1 thread as they are closely related and some suggestions might affect several branches. I can also split it up if needed.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Option to normalize only downwards
I will start with proposing to add an option to only normalize renders that go above the target and leave the ones that are lower untouched. This is useful in the case of using normalizing only as kind of a safety feature without necessarily wanting to hit a specific target.

Last edited by Phazma; 07-06-2021 at 11:48 PM.
Phazma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2021, 05:58 PM   #2
Zeno
Human being with feelings
 
Zeno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: HH
Posts: 916
Default LUFS-M on Track Meters !!

1. preference option to change track metering from Peak to LUFS-M.
2. preference option to apply a display offset to LUFS-M track metering.

Why and for what would this feature be useful?

  • Editing: To be able to judge the average levels of dynamic instrument and vocal recordings more easily and to automate the levels accordingly, an average level meter like rms/lufs-m is incredibly helpful. Currently, I use a VU Meter plugin for this purpose - as probably many other colleagues do. However, it would be much more efficient to simply take a look at the track meters.
  • Mix preparation: To get a reasonable headroom and an optimal control parameter resolution/range for most plugins, many people including me use the reference standard 0VU=-18dBFS/-21RMS for their pre-FX levels. So why not provide LUFS-M with an adjustable display offset for track meters, so that we have e.g. -21LUFS as our 0 reference on the meters ?
  • Mixing: There are only two situations in mixing where I worry about peak levels - when (soft-)clipping/ limiting sound material and on the master bus. Apart from these two exceptions (and during recording of course), only average levels, frequency ranges and envelopes are important to me. Peak meters are simply a waste of space in this case.

Last edited by Zeno; 07-06-2021 at 06:31 PM.
Zeno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2021, 11:47 PM   #3
Phazma
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,872
Default

@Zeno good suggestion, it would be nice if track meters were as flexible as the master in the way they can be configured.

Normalized Video Render
Another thing regarding normalization that I want to point out (once again) is that I hope there will be a solution for normalizing a video render at some point. Very often it is in video production that normalized audio is needed, and doing the rendering in 1 step (instead of importing audio and video again and configure yet another render) would be very practical, even if it took a 3rd render pass.
Phazma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2021, 03:02 PM   #4
ilarios
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 21
Default

Great idea with this thread, as it seems the whole loudness/metering/normalization is still the main development focus.

I "+1" what you guys said and add a small one for myself.


Option to set Subproject PROX rendering to automatically normalize (peak/RMS/LUFS)
I often use Reaper's clever Subproject system for my post-production, dragging the mix project file in a new one (a mastering template) to automatically render it and start mastering. I have a hybrid setup, so I use analog processors (through Reainsert), digital plugins, and analog emulations, so gain-staging is a must for me. Having the file automatically render to the right level as a starting point would be a much-appreciated time-saver.
ilarios is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2021, 04:21 AM   #5
Phazma
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,872
Default

Yes subproject proxy render would be useful! I always manually normalize it to 0dB and then adjust the gain. Having a settable automatic target would be neat.
Phazma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2021, 05:18 AM   #6
Coachz
Human being with feelings
 
Coachz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,769
Default

I have no use for the master meters until I can set them as pre fader
__________________
Track Freezing Scripts

Coachz Repo
Coachz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2021, 06:36 AM   #7
schwa
Administrator
 
schwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 15,747
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz View Post
I have no use for the master meters until I can set them as pre fader
I don't think that's going to happen. If you want the room to be louder or quieter without affecting the master meter, I suggest you use your interface volume knob, or insert a volume plugin as monitoring FX.
schwa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2021, 07:32 AM   #8
Coachz
Human being with feelings
 
Coachz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,769
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
I don't think that's going to happen. If you want the room to be louder or quieter without affecting the master meter, I suggest you use your interface volume knob, or insert a volume plugin as monitoring FX.
That's really unfortunate. I work in Reaper and it would really disturb my workflow to have to open TotalMix to control volume output. I can work fine with Tiny EBU R128 fx on the Master fx but that eats up more space to display it on the TCP.

It's not the end of the world but would be easier if the Master meters could be prefader. Is there a software design brick wall that prevents that ?

I have RME 9652 and 2 Digimax FS and neither have volume controls but just Totalmix for controlling volumes.

The power of Reaper is its customization for each users workflow and unless there is a software limit to this why not allow it ? Pre-Fader meters are already on all the tracks. Thanks for listening and Rock On !
__________________
Track Freezing Scripts

Coachz Repo
Coachz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2021, 11:31 PM   #9
Tale
Human being with feelings
 
Tale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 3,645
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz View Post
That's really unfortunate. I work in Reaper and it would really disturb my workflow to have to open TotalMix to control volume output.
You turn down the hardware output volume from within REAPER, not?
Tale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2021, 12:33 AM   #10
Zeno
Human being with feelings
 
Zeno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: HH
Posts: 916
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz View Post
it would really disturb my workflow to have to open TotalMix to control volume output.
That's what monitor fx is for. Or use a midi-controller to control the RME faders in TotalMix. Or let a volume plugin display it's volume parameter in the master track. Or create a monitor aux. Or a pre-master bus track. Or get yourself a monitor contoller.

A lot of possibilities. I personally would use the midi controller option.

Last edited by Zeno; 07-09-2021 at 12:50 AM.
Zeno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2021, 01:23 AM   #11
Phazma
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,872
Default

I guess Coachz would like the convenience of not having to open a plugin to control his listening volume but adjust it right from the Reaper GUI. How about using an FX with a volume control at the end of your master chain and choose "Show in track controls" for the volume control? It will give you a knob on the master track to control the volume.
Phazma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2021, 02:24 AM   #12
Zeno
Human being with feelings
 
Zeno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: HH
Posts: 916
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazma View Post
I guess Coachz would like the convenience of not having to open a plugin to control his listening volume
I think what Coachz really means is a way to control the monitor volume without affecting the master track meter. I've already said it, but I'll repeat it again in more detail.

There are four ways to do this:
1. buy a device that allows you to control your monitor volume (monitor controller).
2. buy a simple midi controller with which you can control the hardware outputs in TotalMix (via MIDI bus 1, if I remember correctly)
3. insert a volume plugin into the monitor FX chain in Reaper
4. create a monitor track in Reaper: remove the hardware send from the master track. Then create a new track (name it "Pre-Master" or something like that). You can hide the Pre-Master later via Track manager if you want. You don't need to see this track, because it's only a bridge to the master. Create another track (name it "Monitor" or something like that), disconnect its master send, send the signal pre-fader/pre-FX to the "Pre-Master" track and additionally send post-fader to your hardware monitor output. Now use the "Monitor" track as a folder for your mix and to control your monitor volume.




I hope it helps

Cheers

Zeno

Last edited by Zeno; 07-09-2021 at 03:03 AM.
Zeno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2021, 02:42 AM   #13
Phazma
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,872
Default

Ok true, I got it. A gain FX would still lead to a change in the meters so it's same as using the master fader.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeno View Post
4. create a monitor track in Reaper: remove the hardware send from the master track. Then create a new track (name it "Pre-Master" or something like that). You can hide the Pre-Master later via Track manager if you want. You don't need this track, because it's only a bridge to the master. Create another track (name it "Monitor" or something like that), disconnect its master send, send the signal pre-fader to the "Pre-Master" track and additionally send post-fader to your hardware monitor output. Now use the "Monitor" track as a folder for your mix and to control your monitor volume.
Not tried (because I don't need it) but if this works I think it would be the complete solution to his problem.
Phazma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2021, 03:01 AM   #14
Phazma
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,872
Default Render queue: Normalize to master target

'Normalize stems to master target' is a great option when rendering each track to a separate stem.

However often I (and probably others) in more complex projects want to render several tracks (or even busses) to a single stem and there the 'Master mix + stems' option for the render source is not useful.

In my experience the most reliable way to render stems like that (including all related sends, busses, fx ect..) is to solo all busses and tracks that should end up on a stem and add them as renders to the render que.

However in that case normalization is only possible on individual renders, offsetting the balance between them.

It would be great if there was a way to normalize renders from the queue as if they were stems.

I bet the best way would be to allow to specify a reference render in the queue as 'master target' which will be rendered first to calculate the normalization (I would un-solo all tracks for that) and then each other render in the queue will be offset by the same gain amount.
Phazma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2021, 03:27 AM   #15
Zeno
Human being with feelings
 
Zeno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: HH
Posts: 916
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazma View Post
Not tried (because I don't need it) but if this works I think it would be the complete solution to his problem.
@Coachz:

Hmm... Now that I think about it, there is even an easier way.
Instead of the master track output 1/2, you can also simply send from output 3/4 to the interface. Then insert a volume plugin on the master track and send the pin output to channels 3/4. Show parameter in track controls. Done.

Edit 1: @Coachz Nope, I withdraw this statement. Don't do that, it only works for peak values, not for loudness.

Edit 2: Sorry Phazma, now I am quiet. Back to the topic.

Last edited by Zeno; 07-09-2021 at 04:02 AM.
Zeno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2021, 05:35 AM   #16
Coachz
Human being with feelings
 
Coachz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,769
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeno View Post
I think what Coachz really means is a way to control the monitor volume without affecting the master track meter. I've already said it, but I'll repeat it again in more detail.

There are four ways to do this:
1. buy a device that allows you to control your monitor volume (monitor controller).
2. buy a simple midi controller with which you can control the hardware outputs in TotalMix (via MIDI bus 1, if I remember correctly)
3. insert a volume plugin into the monitor FX chain in Reaper
4. create a monitor track in Reaper: remove the hardware send from the master track. Then create a new track (name it "Pre-Master" or something like that). You can hide the Pre-Master later via Track manager if you want. You don't need to see this track, because it's only a bridge to the master. Create another track (name it "Monitor" or something like that), disconnect its master send, send the signal pre-fader/pre-FX to the "Pre-Master" track and additionally send post-fader to your hardware monitor output. Now use the "Monitor" track as a folder for your mix and to control your monitor volume.




I hope it helps

Cheers

Zeno
Thanks for taking the time but I don't like any of those solutions. I much prefer just adjusting the master fader and knobs are not as easy for me as a nice long slider. I'll just keep doing what I've been doing which works fine but would be better if I could use the lufs meter on the master instead of the tiny lufs fx. Is there a technical reason why the meters cannot be made optionally pre-fader?
__________________
Track Freezing Scripts

Coachz Repo
Coachz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2021, 05:37 AM   #17
Coachz
Human being with feelings
 
Coachz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,769
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeno View Post
@Coachz:

Hmm... Now that I think about it, there is even an easier way.
Instead of the master track output 1/2, you can also simply send from output 3/4 to the interface. Then insert a volume plugin on the master track and send the pin output to channels 3/4. Show parameter in track controls. Done.

Edit 1: @Coachz Nope, I withdraw this statement. Don't do that, it only works for peak values, not for loudness.

Edit 2: Sorry Phazma, now I am quiet. Back to the topic.
Kudos for trying!
__________________
Track Freezing Scripts

Coachz Repo
Coachz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2021, 05:37 AM   #18
Coachz
Human being with feelings
 
Coachz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,769
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tale View Post
You turn down the hardware output volume from within REAPER, not?
I do, using master fader.
__________________
Track Freezing Scripts

Coachz Repo
Coachz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2021, 05:39 AM   #19
Coachz
Human being with feelings
 
Coachz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,769
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeno View Post
That's what monitor fx is for. Or use a midi-controller to control the RME faders in TotalMix. Or let a volume plugin display it's volume parameter in the master track. Or create a monitor aux. Or a pre-master bus track. Or get yourself a monitor contoller.

A lot of possibilities. I personally would use the midi controller option.
Is there a way for a volume plugin to display its parameter as a slider and not a knob?
__________________
Track Freezing Scripts

Coachz Repo
Coachz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2021, 05:45 AM   #20
spinear
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: South Korea
Posts: 23
Default

Hello guys.

Sorry about my bad English but hear me out.

I've found out the new RMS meter has a large delay.
Is this an intentional change?
I know what is LUFS but shouldn't you guys have not to change the algorithm of the RMS meter?

Because I'm using Reaper to make game sound assets.
A game sound has a very very short attack or transient. commonly 0.1sec ~ 0.5sec.
Now Some sounds don't even display the RMS meter.

You know, if there are 200~300 individual sounds should be balanced and there needs to be a benchmark.

Until now, for me, it was an RMS meter but now it's literally gone.
spinear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2021, 06:39 AM   #21
schwa
Administrator
 
schwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 15,747
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spinear View Post
A game sound has a very very short attack or transient. commonly 0.1sec ~ 0.5sec.
Now Some sounds don't even display the RMS meter.
Are you referring to the master VU meter, or the render loudness actions? Could you explain how you are measuring the loudness of very short sounds?
schwa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2021, 06:44 AM   #22
Funkybot
Human being with feelings
 
Funkybot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Joisey
Posts: 5,988
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz View Post
I have no use for the master meters until I can set them as pre fader
I've got a Fireface 800 and just use one of these:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...tor-controller



There are lots of hardware monitor controller options and it's absolutely worth it IMO.
Funkybot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2021, 07:02 AM   #23
Coachz
Human being with feelings
 
Coachz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,769
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
I've got a Fireface 800 and just use one of these:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...tor-controller



There are lots of hardware monitor controller options and it's absolutely worth it IMO.
I'll stick with the master fader. I still wonder if there is a technical reason the master meter can't be pre-fader
__________________
Track Freezing Scripts

Coachz Repo
Coachz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2021, 11:27 AM   #24
RovingEye
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 55
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeno View Post
@Coachz:

Hmm... Now that I think about it, there is even an easier way.
Instead of the master track output 1/2, you can also simply send from output 3/4 to the interface. Then insert a volume plugin on the master track and send the pin output to channels 3/4. Show parameter in track controls. Done.

I love this idea, cheers!
RovingEye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2021, 07:00 PM   #25
spinear
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: South Korea
Posts: 23
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Are you referring to the master VU meter, or the render loudness actions? Could you explain how you are measuring the loudness of very short sounds?
Yes. I'm referring master VU meter.
It does not to achieving exact loudness but just referring.

If my target loudness is -10 RMS.
Before, Short sounds displayed -12 or -14 RMS.
Then, That's become my target RMS for a bunch of short sounds.

Now, it displays -36 RMS or inf.
You can say, isn't it the same if you make -36 RMS for the new target?

Every short sound displays different RMS depend on their tiny difference of sound length because the VU meter delay got massive.

Using Region manager, hit play then change regions constantly.
Now, it displays all sounds -36 RMS or inf.
Because I changed the region quicker than the VU meter delay.

I understand you can't understand. My English is not good enough to explain the exact method.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let me put it this way.
Before, the master VU meter staring to rise as soon as hit play, and then shows maximum RMS reading after 250ms(default)

Now, the VU meter gets no reading at all during the first 300ms.
After 300ms, the VU meter starts to rise.
Literally, I need the RMS reading but it acts like the LUFS meter. Shouldn't be two of those totally separated things?

So practically you can say there is no RMS reading shorter than 300ms + 250ms sounds right now.

That's the problem.

Last edited by spinear; 07-09-2021 at 11:12 PM.
spinear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2021, 07:26 PM   #26
ashcat_lt
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 7,271
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz View Post
I have no use for the master meters until I can set them as pre fader
Who needs master meter when we have the new analysis and normalize functions? Absolute levels mean nothing until final distribution file render. If you want a ballpark, just subtract the fader setting from the meter display. Easy math.
ashcat_lt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2021, 05:17 AM   #27
Coachz
Human being with feelings
 
Coachz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,769
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashcat_lt View Post
Who needs master meter when we have the new analysis and normalize functions? Absolute levels mean nothing until final distribution file render. If you want a ballpark, just subtract the fader setting from the meter display. Easy math.
Yeah, um, I'm gonna pass on doing math with my daw. My current way works so I'll stick with that. Still no explanation on the TECHNICAL reason why the master meter can't be pre-fader. Who needs master meter? I do.
__________________
Track Freezing Scripts

Coachz Repo
Coachz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2021, 05:38 AM   #28
schwa
Administrator
 
schwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 15,747
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spinear View Post
Now, the VU meter gets no reading at all during the first 300ms.
The latest +dev builds increase the update frequency of the loudness metering on the master VU, if you'd like to try it out: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=22836

But, even with the 6.32 release build, I can't reproduce what you are describing. If I create a region that is 100ms long and enable the region manager option "play region through then repeat or stop", I get an RMS reading for the region. I can't reproduce this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by spinear View Post
Now, the VU meter gets no reading at all during the first 300ms.
But, if the +dev build fixes your problem, maybe it doesn't matter.
schwa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2021, 06:40 AM   #29
ashcat_lt
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 7,271
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz View Post
Yeah, um, I'm gonna pass on doing math my daw.
I mean if I’ve dropped the fader around 12db and the meter is peaking around -16, I know it’s “really” peaking at -4. How hard is that? Since it doesn’t matter anyway, where’s the problem?
ashcat_lt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2021, 06:57 AM   #30
Coachz
Human being with feelings
 
Coachz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,769
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashcat_lt View Post
I mean if I’ve dropped the fader around 12db and the meter is peaking around -16, I know it’s “really” peaking at -4. How hard is that? Since it doesn’t matter anyway, where’s the problem?
The problem is computers can do this. Still no explanation on the TECHNICAL reason why the master meter can't be pre-fader.
__________________
Track Freezing Scripts

Coachz Repo
Coachz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2021, 06:59 AM   #31
spinear
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: South Korea
Posts: 23
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
The latest +dev builds increase the update frequency of the loudness metering on the master VU, if you'd like to try it out: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=22836
Hi.
VU meter 300ms delay is gone in version dev0709.
Thank you.

FYI, That problem may not be shown when you play loop.
I didn't think it was a bug but a decision, so I didn't say exact reproducing steps or video.
That was my bad for giving you confusion.

Anyways, Thanks for restoring it.

Last edited by spinear; 07-10-2021 at 08:52 AM.
spinear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2021, 10:35 AM   #32
Phazma
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,872
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazma View Post
'Normalize stems to master target' is a great option when rendering each track to a separate stem.

However often I (and probably others) in more complex projects want to render several tracks (or even busses) to a single stem and there the 'Master mix + stems' option for the render source is not useful.

In my experience the most reliable way to render stems like that (including all related sends, busses, fx ect..) is to solo all busses and tracks that should end up on a stem and add them as renders to the render que.

However in that case normalization is only possible on individual renders, offsetting the balance between them.

It would be great if there was a way to normalize renders from the queue as if they were stems.

I bet the best way would be to allow to specify a reference render in the queue as 'master target' which will be rendered first to calculate the normalization (I would un-solo all tracks for that) and then each other render in the queue will be offset by the same gain amount.
Another approach..

maybe it would be easier to allow to select multiple tracks (including their routing) and put them as a 'single stem' in some list of stems to render? The user could configure various combinations of tracks as separate stems and then render (+normalize) them with the "Master Mix + Stems" option.
Phazma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2021, 10:59 AM   #33
ashcat_lt
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 7,271
Default

The above would never even occur to me because I would have already routed whatever I wanted mixed into a given stem to a track which could then be rendered as a stem.

I haven’t actually tried these new versions though I’m very much afraid I’ll finally have upgrade to v6. Is there something like “render stems and normalize (common gain)”? Stems are generally meant to sound like the mix when you pull them all up at unity, and normalizing each to a specific target will generally screw that all up. I do understand there are other reasons people render stems, but am wondering if the more typical case is covered.
ashcat_lt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2021, 11:30 AM   #34
Phazma
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,872
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashcat_lt View Post
The above would never even occur to me because I would have already routed whatever I wanted mixed into a given stem to a track which could then be rendered as a stem.

I haven’t actually tried these new versions though I’m very much afraid I’ll finally have upgrade to v6. Is there something like “render stems and normalize (common gain)”? Stems are generally meant to sound like the mix when you pull them all up at unity, and normalizing each to a specific target will generally screw that all up. I do understand there are other reasons people render stems, but am wondering if the more typical case is covered.
Yes you can select several tracks and render them as “master mix + stems”. As of the current dev version you get the choice between individual normalization or relative normalization. In the latter case the master will be used as reference and normalized and all the other files will be gain-adjusted by the same amount, keeping the relative volume intact.
Phazma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2021, 12:38 PM   #35
ashcat_lt
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 7,271
Default

Ahhh! Bueno. I guess I really am going to have to leave v5 behind.
ashcat_lt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2021, 01:49 AM   #36
Phazma
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,872
Default

@schwa

When Dry Run rendering or using the 'Calculate loudness...' actions each filename gets the suffix ".wav" in the render analysis, even if it is not a wave file being analyzed and even if the render format is something other than .wav. It is a bit confusing.. probably just an oversight?
Phazma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2021, 01:09 PM   #37
MrTsonts
Human being with feelings
 
MrTsonts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Ukraine, Kyiv
Posts: 173
Default

If we are talking about the Render window, I would really like to be able to enable and disable the option "Save copy of project to outfile.wav.RPP" without opening this window.
MrTsonts is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2021, 12:45 PM   #38
IrishRover79
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Hampshire, England
Posts: 240
Default

Just wanted to say thanks for the ability to write the output values of the loudness meter plugin as automation! It's so cool to have the ability to generate loudness graphs this way....
IrishRover79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2021, 09:33 PM   #39
ashcat_lt
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 7,271
Default

Hey here's a question! Can LUFS normalize actually work? Since the whole thing is gated and filtered, there isn't actually a linear relationship between the sample values and the final integrated value, such that a file which integrates to -13 might not actually integrate to -12 after 1db of gain. I've seen it happen a few times. Is there a way to predict that without an iterative process? Is that already happening in the new release?
ashcat_lt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2021, 03:32 AM   #40
Coachz
Human being with feelings
 
Coachz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,769
Default

Just know that LUFS is not the end all. I just mastered an album where EVERY song was mastered to -12.5 LUFS-I exactly. They all sounded louder or quieter than each other and had to be tweaked up to about +-1.5 LUFS to sound right next to all the other songs. The ears tell the true loudness story.
__________________
Track Freezing Scripts

Coachz Repo
Coachz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.