Kontakt not playing imported MIDI - Solved!

[WolfJames]

I am importing a midi file into Reaper, and adding Kontakt to the track to play the instrument. Kontakt works normally and I hear the sound just fine when arming the track and playing the keyboard, however, the midi track will not play (when pressing play) using Kontakt. The meter doesn't show anything, except when I play manually.

I can use other (non-Kontakt) instruments and the midi track plays fine. I can also do the exact same thing inside Studio One, and the midi track with Kontakt plays perfectly with no problems.

What am I missing here? Why does it work properly in Studio One and not Reaper? I prefer to use Reaper. All device settings are correct. Assume I know nothing about midi.

[ivansc]

Check what channel(s) your MIDI file is transmitting on & what Channels you have set for the various instruments within Kontakt.
A quick way to make sure Reaper & Kontakt are talking to each other as they should is to set ALL your MIDI tracks to send to "omni" and all your Kontakt instrument libraries or fdiles to receive on omni. That way SOME sort of noise will come out if you have everything else set right.
If that works it is just a case of making sure that if you have a bass set to receive MIDI on channel 2, your MIDI bass line is set to send on channel 2 as well. Rinse and repeat...

[solger]

In addition to checking the MIDI channel: also make sure that the MIDI notes are inside the playable note range of the loaded Kontakt instrument.

[WolfJames]

Originally Posted by solger

In addition to checking the MIDI channel: also make sure that the MIDI notes are inside the playable note range of the loaded Kontakt instrument.

Thanks for the comments so far. I'm not sure how to check that. They are basically c3 to c5 notes on the keyboard. Although, the instrument is a Sax. But, it's the same with any instrument including piano.

I have set Kontakt to Omni, and it's also set to ALL midi channels in Reaper.

Again, it sounds fine when playing manually, and the midi track plays just as it should in Studio One.

Are there any esoteric midi settings in Reaper that would cause this behavior?

[WolfJames]

Solved!

I was using the "8-Out" version of Kontakt. I switched to the "16-out" version and it plays just as it should. I'm still not sure why the 8-out doesn't work the same way in Reaper as Studio one, as that is the one I chose there. ???

Thanks for the help!

[EvilDragon]

Does it also happen with instruments from Kontakt's factory library? If yes, please pack up a project and post it here, with just Kontakt loaded and a patch from factory library that shows the issue.

[WolfJames]

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

Does it also happen with instruments from Kontakt's factory library? If yes, please pack up a project and post it here, with just Kontakt loaded and a patch from factory library that shows the issue.

Thanks! I found a solution just as you posted.

[EvilDragon]

Hah.

So what was it?

[WolfJames]

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

Hah.

So what was it?

Well, I'm still not sure why, but when I use the 16 channel out version of Kontakt instead of the 8 out, it works.

However, I have another issue with Midi in Reaper. This has happened before. When I import a midi file, only the "top half" of the track will sound the notes. This time with a bass midi track. Every note above D2 sounds fine, but notes below D2 do not play. I'm afraid I don't know enough about midi editing to check the individual note volume, etc., however it does play perfectly in Studio One. What setting would cause "this" behavior in Reaper? The notes and instrument do play perfectly if I play them manually on the keyboard, it's just the playing back of a standard midi file that is giving me fits.

I love Reaper and prefer it for recording, but every time I turn around it seems like I'm fighting with it to do something simple that Studio One or Cakewalk does without any effort, which is important with a limited amount of time. I mean for goodness sake, I just want to play midi files that play fine in other DAWS!

Does anyone know of any reference for "MIDI" settings that will make Reaper do what the others do without having to jump through hoops?

[EvilDragon]

Kinda hard to know what would cause that... I have no problems in playing any MIDI notes, as long as the instrument I loaded into Kontakt has samples mapped in that note range...

[lunker]

It certainly sounds like the notes are going out of range of the instrument.

Are you sure your keyboard doesn't have an octave transpose that might cause the notes you play to be off from the ones in the MIDI item?

If you have a note in the MIDI item that works (let's say C4), does playing that note on the keyboard give you the same note from the instrument (not transposed to a different octave)?

[Bri1]

Every note above D2 sounds fine, but notes below D2 do not play.

Hallo ^ tried shifting up or down an octave... ? some seem out by that.

[WolfJames]

Originally Posted by lunker

It certainly sounds like the notes are going out of range of the instrument.

Are you sure your keyboard doesn't have an octave transpose that might cause the notes you play to be off from the ones in the MIDI item?

If you have a note in the MIDI item that works (let's say C4), does playing that note on the keyboard give you the same note from the instrument (not transposed to a different octave)?

It does seem as though it's out of range. But, I've double checked and every thing seems to be correct. There is no transposing going on. When I play it on the keyboard, it sounds perfectly. The notes are also in the range of the instrument.

I'm beginning to wonder if it has something to do with the way I export and import midi files. However, the same file will play perfectly in another DAW with the same instrument.

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions.

[EvilDragon]

Post the MIDI file and let us know the library/instrument you're trying to play it with.

[WolfJames]

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

Post the MIDI file and let us know the library/instrument you're trying to play it with.

Here is the midi file. It's the bass track that I've been trying to figure out how to make play correctly. I want to play it with IK's Modo Bass instrument, but it doesn't play anything below D2. The notes do sound fine when manually playing on the keyboard. The midi file also plays normally in Studio One with the same instrument. ???

[DarkStar]

That MIDI file has 7 tracks within it (2 of which are "2-channel"); in the BAss track the lowest note is named as G0 (here), MIDI #31.

It plays back here OK (using Syntronik, as I do not have MODO Bass); could it be that the MODO Bass note range is restricted?

Also, what is your "MIDI octave name display offset" setting in the Preferences? Many people find that that is best set to -1.

[lunker]

I have MODO BASS. The lowest note possible is 33 (which would be called A1 if middle C (note 60) is called C4.

I bet you are using a 5-string bass in Studio One, and a 4-string bass in Reaper. If you are using the "Drop" option in MODO Bass, the lowest note on a 4-string bass is 38 (D2 if middle C is C4). This sounds like it fits your problem perfectly.

Note that the latest version of MODO Bass allows you to turn any model into a 5-string bass, so verify that you are using a 5-string model, and let us know if that solves it. (If you don't have the latest version, then just switch to a 5-string model, and see if it solves it.)

[DarkStar]

^^^
OK; and different basses have different ranges:



What do the grey and red keys indicate? (Key-switches and out-of-range?)

[lunker]

Hi DarkStar,

That's right -- the different bass models have different ranges (depending on how many strings and playable frets the model has).

If I recall correctly, the key mapping is:

white = playable note
red = key switch
grey = neither (except the light-grey key E5, which is the choke/mute key)

[DarkStar]

PS The ocarina track has some long notes on it - its looks like they do not have Note Offs.

I see this has been marked as "Solved". To help out others, what was the solution?

[solger]

Originally Posted by DarkStar

I see this has been marked as "Solved". To help out others, what was the solution?

Apparently the 8 out Kontakt plugin version wasn't working (for whatever reason), but using the 16 out version works (as mentioned in post #5 and #8).

[DarkStar]

^^^
Nope, that just adds to the mystery

[solger]

Originally Posted by WolfJames

Here is the midi file. It's the bass track that I've been trying to figure out how to make play correctly. I want to play it with IK's Modo Bass instrument, but it doesn't play anything below D2. The notes do sound fine when manually playing on the keyboard. The midi file also plays normally in Studio One with the same instrument. ???

My first guess would also be that there's an octave offset somewhere (either in the piano roll or the plugin).

EDIT: To check if the MIDI notes are inside the playable instrument range: does Modo Bass show the triggered MIDI notes in the on-screen keyboard (shown in post #18) while playing the MIDI file?

[WolfJames]

Originally Posted by solger

Apparently the 8 out Kontakt plugin version wasn't working (for whatever reason), but using the 16 out version works (as mentioned in post #5 and #8).

Yes, that was the original problem with a different track. The bass track is a separate problem. Sorry, I probably should have started a new thread.

Thanks to everyone for all their help. I honestly know nothing about midi and the codes. I don't have time to jump into midi programming, so I just wanted to grab a file that has the notes I need, drop it in, add an instrument and go. (Later, I often come back and play the part manually, when I can find the time) I do this when preparing to record vocals for other people, or just get a background track to practice with.

I will try changing the bass models later and post the results. I have changed models, but they were all 4-string, so I'll try a 5-string model.

[Bri1]

i guess it's because neither daws or plugin makers are consitant with each other--some are set to c3,some c4,c5. =confusion.
if you export a wav file the same kinda thing is going on here--for eg: export reaper .wav with a $note tag>> check results---other samplers and renderers do different root note settings on export.

it's supposed to be 'middle of playing keyboard' --but a lot of daws are set to a native tuning of 440 a -- so it might make more sense if all are tuned to this on both imports+exportings. ok!!

[WolfJames]

I had a moment to change from a 4-string bass to a 5-string bass, and this did indeed solve the problem. The weird thing is that it just plays correctly in Trillian by default. I haven't had a chance to test with Studio One yet.

Thanks again to everyone for pointing me in the right direction!

[DarkStar]

Not weird, really.

Trilian is a sample-player, based on an extensive 34GB sounds library.

Originally Posted by Trilian product page

Trilian is designed from the ground up to be the most versatile bass virtual instrument available today with a new level of expressive, real-time performance for acoustic and electric basses – plus cutting-edge synth bass tones with powerful editing and extraordinary sound quality.

Trilian is the successor to Spectrasonics’ award-winning Trilogy bass instrument, offering deeper control of musical expression and much greater flexibility of sound shaping. Trilian’s 34GB library is 10-times the size of Trilogy and features all new acoustic, electric and synth basses.

MODO Bass is the first physically modelled bass virtual instrument

Originally Posted by ="MODO bass product page"

Every component that contributes to the unique tonal properties of a bass player playing an instrument has been modelled, and the effects of each component on the other ones — the interactions between each tone variable — has been recreated to give you a dynamic, living breathing and ever-changing performance.

You see, traditional virtual instruments are sample-based, meaning that sound is produced by triggering recorded samples of instruments. MODO BASS isn’t a sample-based instrument, but rather a completely new technology where sound is generated by recreating the physical properties of a real instrument — everything that makes an instrument create sound is physically modelled and sound is synthesized in real time.

In both products the playable note range for each instrument is decided by the sounds developer. Typically, the range is based on the naturally playable range of the sampled / modelled bass.

If you have any examples of different playable ranges for the same bass in both products, I'd be interested to see them. Perhaps you can post screenshots here showing the differences.

How to post screenshots (in Post #2)

PS Did you set the Octave name display offset?

[WolfJames]

Originally Posted by DarkStar

Not weird, really.

If you have any examples of different playable ranges for the same bass in both products, I'd be interested to see them. Perhaps you can post screenshots here showing the differences.

PS Did you set the Octave name display offset?

I have no idea if they even have the same basses. I just don't have a lot of time to work on this stuff. I just need it work.

Where is the setting for "Octave name display offset?"

[lunker]

Originally Posted by WolfJames

I just don't have a lot of time to work on this stuff. I just need it work.

That's a lot like saying "I don't have time to learn to play a guitar, I just want good music to come out when I try to play it."

I'm not trying to insult you, but unfortunately, there are some technical aspects that need to be learned about MIDI data and/or the MIDI instruments you use (if you want to use them well). Each instrument is going to be slightly different from the others. Just like you wouldn't hire a guitarist to play the drum part, you often times can't switch MIDI instruments and expect the exact same behavior.

[DarkStar]

Originally Posted by WolfJames

Where is the setting for "Octave name display offset?"

Click [Options], select "Preferences", type "offset" into the Find box, click [Find]

[WolfJames]

Originally Posted by lunker

That's a lot like saying "I don't have time to learn to play a guitar, I just want good music to come out when I try to play it."

I'm not trying to insult you, but unfortunately, there are some technical aspects that need to be learned about MIDI data and/or the MIDI instruments you use (if you want to use them well). Each instrument is going to be slightly different from the others. Just like you wouldn't hire a guitarist to play the drum part, you often times can't switch MIDI instruments and expect the exact same behavior.

I just don't use midi (as far as editing) often enough to spend my time on learning the editing. I'm not a professional musician (although I've done pro sound), and barely have enough time to record anything at all. So, I just try to get the quickest workflow possible to do what I need to do.

I spend my days troubleshooting and programming various elements of cyber security infrastructure, so the last thing I want to do when I have free time is look at code of any type. lol So, when I do have some time, I just want to jump in and produce or play some music as quickly as possible. Obviously, just for fun. I mostly use midi instruments just for playing parts on the keyboard. Having said that, I do plan on getting into some basic midi stuff soon.

[lunker]

The good new is that you probably won't have to look through any code.

The best place to start is reading the user manuals that come with the MIDI instruments. For example, with MODO Bass, it will let you know the different models available (4 string, 5 string, 6 string, etc.), and the playable note ranges for each one. It will also tell you about any key switch notes or CC data that will change the beharior of the instrument (change from playing with fingers to playing with a pick, to playing slap/pop; muting strings, etc.).

The more you know about the instrument, the better you will be at debugging issues like this. And at getting the most expression out of the instrument!

[TheDarkInstall]

Old thread I realise, but I had the exact same problem and just solved it.

Here is the issue, which explains the 8out / 16out 'solution' too;

Midi notes in Reaper have properties. Each one can be assigned to a particular output. If your VSTi is not playing the notes, and swapping to a larger range of outputs version fixes this, then the Midi notes you are trying to trigger are set to an output not covered by the VSTi.

Solution; Highlight all of the Midi notes in a Midi Item, right click and select Note Properties, then select Channel, and set it to a number that the VSTi covers.

Job done.

[EvilDragon]

MIDI notes in Reaper don't have the "output" property, they have the MIDI channel property.

In Kontakt you could still have an instrument that listens to MIDI channel 16, but it sends its audio to the main stereo output (outputs 1/2)...