v6.78+dev0320 - March 20 2023

[Vagelis]

Originally Posted by musicbynumbers

so an option in the options menu and an action to switch this on and off would hopefully make everyone happy

+1!

[Daodan]

Originally Posted by inthevoid

However, adding a MIDI loopback device in Preferences and hitting Apply instantly crashed Reaper and I now cannot open it again - it crashes on load. Windows 11 for reference.

Same

[musicbynumbers]

yeah. Getting the defaults right will be the key to that. I have faith in Schwa for that though

Originally Posted by Thonex

[EDIT] Sockmonkey pointed out to me that I can use Mouse modifiers: Set arrange view override mouse modifiers C to swipe on the waveform. Problem solved [/EDIT]

I could live with that.

But here are my concerns, with too many options there becomes a point where the barrier to entry is too complicated. With the way things are going, in order to comp "normally" one would have to align all the stars perfectly:

1) Make sure you have Fixed Items Lanes On
2) Make Sure you have Razor on all Selected to all Tracks ON
3) Make sure you Track Grouping On
4) Make sure you assign the correct Mouse Modifiers to the mouse
5) Make sure you are zoomed in a certain way for waveform editing vs Comp swiping
6) and... and... and..

That said, I realize we are working on a pre-release. But my fear is things won't distill down to an elegant solution. Instead, we'll have a maze of options that will be unintuitive.

[deeb]

Originally Posted by deeb

- when recording in Fixed Lanes, for each loop cycle reaper creates a new lane.. If i record 10 cycles reaper icreates 10 lanes. Instead i would like that that reaper kept all this cycles within 1 lane but offset to the last or first recorded loop. In the Comping concept this does not make sense but in the the concept of overdubing /live looping it does (layering). Because i want to be able listen what has been recorded and so we set to "play all lanes". and that will be 10 lanes if i did 10 takes. 9 things there that i don't want to hear.

I realized that actually , maybe would better if reaper kept this 10 cycles as media item with lovely takes.

[Thonex]

Bug:

Going from the action: Mouse modifiers: Set arrange view override mouse modifiers C" to "A" deselects the active Comp lane and it looks like all your comp swipes are lost... but they can be resurrected when double clicking on the Comp Lane again.

I think with the new Swipe lane functionality, this action needs to be changed to not deselect the comp you are working on.

Mouse modifiers: Set arrange view override mouse modifiers C"




Mouse modifiers: Set arrange view override mouse modifiers A"

[sockmonkey72]

Originally Posted by deeb

I realized that actually , maybe would better if reaper kept this 10 cycles as media item with lovely takes.

What's amazing is that this stuff's been discussed many times over. Maybe it would be even more better if you read back a bit.

[deeb]

Oh amazing ! Let me know where and I’ll read.

[nofish]

Didn't have a chance to try yet - are MIDI loopback devices Reaper exclusive or are they 'seen' OS wide, i.e. are they a replacement for e.g. loopMIDI?

[bolgwrad]

Originally Posted by inthevoid

This is huge! Thank you so much for adding this.

However, adding a MIDI loopback device in Preferences and hitting Apply instantly crashed Reaper and I now cannot open it again - it crashes on load. Windows 11 for reference.

See my later post - if you can find "reaper-midihw.ini" in your User/AppData folder (or whatever), rename/delete it, should get you going again.

[Vagelis]

Originally Posted by Thonex

I think with the new Swipe lane functionality, this action needs to be changed to not deselect the comp you are working on.

^^ very much agreed (while comping is on)

[sockmonkey72]

Originally Posted by deeb

Oh amazing ! Let me know where and I’ll read.

Here, here and here.

No, seriously, do your own homework.

[Vagelis]

Two more bugs with RE and stretching comp areas, there is a different behavior when stretching in comping lane and another in fixed lanes. Maybe it's time to get a modifier to stretch the comp areas without RE?

[souk21]

Originally Posted by vitalker

• + MIDI devices: add ability to create multiple native (single audio block delay) MIDI loopback devices
• + MIDI devices: support up to 128 input/output devices

It would be great to have the ability to filter the loopback/Midi HW output by channel/bus


similar to the existing track midi routing options


In some cases, filtering at the FX level is not possible e.g sending bus1 to track1, and bus2 to midi hw out/loopback.

(it would be very cool to have this option for master/parent send too, but that's another topic )

[deeb]

Originally Posted by sockmonkey72

Here, here and here.

No, seriously, do your own homework.

Where is written the homework?

I don’t wanna go on with this. If you have nothing relevant to say you don’t need to say. Ok? 🙏🏻 thanks

[akademie]

"ReaMote" is still missing in this release (v6.78+dev0320 - March 20 2023),
at least in "reaper678+dev0319_universal.dmg" Mac installer.

BTW, it started in 678+dev0319 as already reported here
REAPER Pre-Release Discussion > v6.78+dev0319 - March 19 2023

[bolgwrad]

This is a dev discussion thread, not Twitter. Would people (now on my ignore list) resist the urge to troll one another, thx loads.

[lexaproductions]

Originally Posted by vitalker

v6.78+dev0320 - March 20 2023

• + MIDI devices: add ability to create multiple native (single audio block delay) MIDI loopback devices
• + MIDI devices: sort device list by name
• + MIDI devices: support up to 128 input/output devices
  

I'm very grateful for this HUGE feature!!! Thanks devs.

Originally Posted by souk21

Amazing! Thanks

About loopback,
I think I read somewhere than the audio loopback has a one block delay as well, but just to make sure, are the midi and audio loopback in sync ?

One unexpected behavior about sync: Changing to a smaller block size makes the midi out of sync with the audio.
Steps to reproduce:
1- Send AUDIO and MIDI from one tab to another one using Audio loopback and MIDI device.
2- Playback, everything is in sync
3- Change the block size from a smaller block to a larger one (e.g. 128 to 1024) everything is still in sync
4- Change the block size back to 128: AUDIO and MIDI are not in sync anymore.
5- Change the block size to anything >= 1024 then AUDIO and MIDI are back in sync.

It comes back when Closing/Reopening REAPER

[vitalker]

Originally Posted by akademie

"ReaMote" is still missing in this release (v6.78+dev0320 - March 20 2023),
at least in "reaper678+dev0319_universal.dmg" Mac installer.

BTW, it started in 678+dev0319 as already reported here
REAPER Pre-Release Discussion > v6.78+dev0319 - March 19 2023

Same on Windows. If I change the file name to something else and then install Reaper to same folder, reamote.exe is not there. Maybe it is no longer supported?

[vitalker]

Can't say whether it's a bug or a feature, but choosing menu items in container doesn't close menu, i.e. the menu persists. Looks like it is closed after second choice, even if it's same menu item.

[Vagelis]

Some thoughts regarding arrange view override and switching views from comping to editing. I think except an action to toggle those views, wouldn't it also make sense to switch the view by changing the mouse override while comping is on?

What i mean is when comping is on and we use the arrange view C to comp areas, then switching to another view which is for editing, (marquee, RE, etc) it could also switch to editing view. Even though I would like to try something like this first if possible and see how it could work and if it's better than a dedicated modifier.

[FeedTheCat]

Wow!

Initial thoughts:

From a UI perspective I think I would look a lot less cluttered if the comp lane didn't have comp areas.

1. It would be easier to distinguish gaps between synced comp areas.
2. I've seen people asking to make the comp lane bigger than source lanes (similar to other DAWs) and this would achieve the same effect.
3. It sort of looks like solo markers, but the top lane is always soloed. Which makes sense, but also messes with my brain a bit.



From a UX perspective afaict the functionality is mostly redundant. Paradoxically it's unsynced comp areas that provide the most utility. E.g for right click options like "move comp area to new edit lane".

Maybe it's too early for UI considerations, but this visual change got me thinking... Does it even conceptually make sense that a comp area can reference itself? Something isn't adding up for me...

[benmiller]

Originally Posted by musicbynumbers

an option in the options menu and an action to switch this on and off would hopefully make everyone happy

+10 !

[ferropop]

But, anything is a comp lane, or a source lane, or anything... so it can't be standardized as "the comp lane is bigger". (re : the UI point by FeedTheCat).

Reaper is the only DAW that is open-ended like this, where anything is anything, which is why other DAWs can so easily lay out a fixed view. They define a single workflow, optimize everything to work within those confines, and move on.

This is the negative side of freedom and flexibility.

[ferropop]

And as for Comp Lanes referencing themselves, it has less to do with making sense and more with utility.

Comp Areas, as a construct, are useful. I see them as "the thing that you hear" areas.

Unsynced areas to me are weird in the comp lane in general because it creates a whole new set of mouse actions, modifiers, and expectations vs the comp areas. It breaks the flow - which is why I really pushed to be able to create comp areas easily from unsynced areas -- to restore the flow of only having comp areas in the comp lane. Every time I unsync something, I re-create a comp area on it.

If I had my way there would be no unsynced areas at all! The comp area, in the comp lane, would just continue to exist if you modified its contents -- purely as a "this is what you hear!" area, with crossfades and "move up/down" capabilities.

[Phazma]

Originally Posted by Vagelis

You can also right click on a number to show the menu-> insert empty lane, or with a mouse modifier

Thanks, dumb me posting before checking things. Devs did the right thing

However I agree with others that inserting a new lane should happen at the bottom and not above other lanes.

And it would also be great if the action to insert an empty lane worked on tracks without fixed lanes, turning them into a fixed lane track directly.

[Phazma]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Go to Preferences -> Audio -> MIDI Devices. Any hardware MIDI Devices are listed there, but now you have the option to "Add Virtual MIDI" and create virtual loopback devices. These are effectively dummy MIDI devices that can be used to extend MIDI routing capabilities.

Ok thanks for the info. Checked it out and seems like it is not something that I will have much use for. Was hoping that it could among other things be used as a less hacky alternative than this for my folder -> child MIDI routing request

[musicbynumbers]

Originally Posted by Phazma

Ok thanks for the info. Checked it out and seems like it is not something that I will have much use for. Was hoping that it could among other things be used as a less hacky alternative than this for my folder -> child MIDI routing request

yeah, I have longed for that kind of routing too.

[Justin]

Originally Posted by akademie

"ReaMote" is still missing in this release (v6.78+dev0320 - March 20 2023),
at least in "reaper678+dev0319_universal.dmg" Mac installer.

BTW, it started in 678+dev0319 as already reported here
REAPER Pre-Release Discussion > v6.78+dev0319 - March 19 2023

Thanks for the attention to detail, but it’s intentionally missing

[Thonex]

Originally Posted by FeedTheCat

Wow!

Initial thoughts:

From a UI perspective I think I would look a lot less cluttered if the comp lane didn't have comp areas.

1. It would be easier to distinguish gaps between synced comp areas.
2. I've seen people asking to make the comp lane bigger than source lanes (similar to other DAWs) and this would achieve the same effect.
3. It sort of looks like solo markers, but the top lane is always soloed. Which makes sense, but also messes with my brain a bit.



From a UX perspective afaict the functionality is mostly redundant. Paradoxically it's unsynced comp areas that provide the most utility. E.g for right click options like "move comp area to new edit lane".

Maybe it's too early for UI considerations, but this visual change got me thinking... Does it even conceptually make sense that a comp area can reference itself? Something isn't adding up for me...

My initial thoughts were pretty much the same.

I have since come to learn that if you set the Arrange Mouse Override to C (or whatever it's called) you can swipe comps on the waveform. And the idea behind the Comp lane is to allow you to edit the items like regular audio using the waveform without being forced to use the swipe tool then and swipe in the narrow swipe area for comping.

Clearly, the devs have the know-how to have the swipe area cover the waveform because they implement that on smaller track heights, so my vote would be to have a "cleaner" option (Swipe+Edit vs Swip on Waveform) where people who want to Comp can do so without the narrow comp lane. That said, with the Arrange Mouse Override to C (or whatever it's called) I could live with that.

[ferropop]

Originally Posted by Phazma

Thanks, dumb me posting before checking things. Devs did the right thing

However I agree with others that inserting a new lane should happen at the bottom and not above other lanes.

And it would also be great if the action to insert an empty lane worked on tracks without fixed lanes, turning them into a fixed lane track directly.

100% - having to put media in a second lane just to get access to Add Lanes actions, is odd to me.

Add Lane actions (above/below) feel like they should do just that, directly.

[Thonex]

Originally Posted by Vagelis

What i mean is when comping is on and we use the arrange view C to comp areas, then switching to another view which is for editing, (marquee, RE, etc) it could also switch to editing view. Even though I would like to try something like this first if possible and see how it could work and if it's better than a dedicated modifier.

As long as we are able to see the comps even if editing. Maybe toggle between an Additional Narrow Comp lane view and a Waveform Comp lane view.

If they fix the Toggle Arrange Mouse Overice C to not deselect your comp, then I think we are almost there.

[FeedTheCat]

Originally Posted by sockmonkey72

What's amazing is that this stuff's been discussed many times over. Maybe it would be even more better if you read back a bit.

To be fair though, what straight person is requesting is very valid.

We used to have this feature and it was removed. I still don't really understand why, and I've been reading along. Afaict it was in an attempt to make fixed lanes a "no-take" zone for comping-related reasons.



This feature was extremely useful for layering, and I really hope it makes a comeback.

[Hipox]

Originally Posted by FeedTheCat

To be fair though, what straight person is requesting is very valid.

We used to have this feature and it was removed. I still don't really understand why, and I've been reading along. Afaict it was in an attempt to make fixed lanes a "no-take" zone for comping-related reasons.



This feature was extremely useful for layering, and I really hope it makes a comeback.

+1

[FeedTheCat]

Originally Posted by ferropop

And as for Comp Lanes referencing themselves, it has less to do with making sense and more with utility.

Comp Areas, as a construct, are useful. I see them as "the thing that you hear" areas.

I'm not saying we should remove the utility. But maybe there is a way to keep it and have it make more sense at the same time.

Comp areas are not "what you hear". If they were you'd hear both comp lane and source lane and get double the volume for synced areas

I'm curious, what exactly is the utility of a comp area in the comp lane? Is it so that we can switch to another area with a single click? Is it that we can drag items together and preserve the area?

[Vagelis]

Originally Posted by Phazma

And it would also be great if the action to insert an empty lane worked on tracks without fixed lanes, turning them into a fixed lane track directly.

But isn't this possible with the action "fixed item lanes"?
Another idea for an action similar to your idea could be to set a number of fixed lanes.
We want to set 4 lanes on a track to work with, hit the action and choose the number.

[inthevoid]

Originally Posted by bolgwrad

See my later post - if you can find "reaper-midihw.ini" in your User/AppData folder (or whatever), rename/delete it, should get you going again.

Thanks - this did the trick. Is there anything I can do to prevent the crash? Or is this a Windows issue?

[Thonex]

Originally Posted by FeedTheCat

I'm curious, what exactly is the utility of a comp area in the comp lane? Is it so that we can switch to another area with a single click? Is it that we can drag items together and preserve the area?

The idea behind the Comp lane (AFAICT) is to allow you to edit the items like regular audio using the waveform without being forced to use the swipe tool then and swipe in the narrow swipe area for comping.

[ferropop]

Originally Posted by FeedTheCat

I'm not saying we should remove the utility. But maybe there is a way to keep it and have it make more sense at the same time.

Comp areas are not "what you hear". If they were you'd hear both comp lane and source lane and get double the volume for synced areas

haha I mean I'm not sure I understand - the comp lane is solo'd in practice, it's what you hear, no?

I'm curious, what exactly is the utility of a comp area in the comp lane? Is it so that we can switch to another area with a single click? Is it that we can drag items together and preserve the area?

Yeah, switch to the other areas is the biggest one. Preserving the flow of only having comp areas in the comp lane is the other.


I guess I'll put it this way - can you find a DAW example where there's a mix of comp areas and "previously comp areas but now unsync'd" areas, each with their own unique properties, all in the comp lane? and is that a good thing?

[ferropop]

The "comp area can comp itself" idea was an attempt to keep comp areas persistent after desyncs happen, which in practice is constant. Item Volume Automation, nudges, etc... Otherwise Every time, the comp area disappears and needs to be redrawn with razor precision if you want to audition the alternatives without disrupting crossfades and adjacent Comp areas.

The "double-click outside of comp areas creates a new comp area between the previous and next existing comp areas" behaviour was meant to "fill the gap" easily. And because those items don't exist in a source lane, the idea of "the comp lane is the source lane" came about.

The "Copy unsynced areas to new lane, comp it" action was meant to quickly save those unsynced edits to a lane, as they only exist in the "comp lane source lane".


If the "Copy unsynced areas..." action worked in conjunction with "double click to create comp are between prev/next comp areas" worked together (ie, instantly created the area, moved that stuff to its own lane and comped it) then maybe the "comp lane is its own source" idea is redundant.

[akademie]

Originally Posted by akademie

"ReaMote" is still missing in this release (v6.78+dev0320 - March 20 2023),
at least in "reaper678+dev0319_universal.dmg" Mac installer.

BTW, it started in 678+dev0319 as already reported here
REAPER Pre-Release Discussion > v6.78+dev0319 - March 19 2023

OK
...