Old 01-18-2017, 05:29 AM   #41
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Asking you to conduct yourself courteously and respectfully is not fanboyism.
Whot?

There's no abuse in this thread.

Besides, "courteously" and "respectfully" are utterly meaningless. These words were born in an era where most of the people at power had nothing to do but invent useless rules for the masses to obey. Like 19th century Britain...
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Old 01-18-2017, 05:39 AM   #42
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End of debate...
damn - just got me a bag popcorn

€ don`t get me wrong - i`ll respect everybodys view

only curious about the argue culture

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Old 01-18-2017, 05:50 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by cyrano View Post
Whot?

There's no abuse in this thread.

Besides, "courteously" and "respectfully" are utterly meaningless. These words were born in an era where most of the people at power had nothing to do but invent useless rules for the masses to obey. Like 19th century Britain...

Hmm, you can run that in your controlled, dark environment What is so unfashionable about being polite on forums?

As someone born in the 20th century who doesn't get off on rudeness unless it's very funny, I hope you don't mind if us polite, thinking people take a back seat while you turn this thread into a rowdy parrot cage free-for-all and send it on its way to sh**sville?




>
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Old 01-18-2017, 06:29 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Softsynth View Post
Why is Irvin being shot down for this?
It is much like when Mik Composer and friends like to moan about MIDI editing in piano roll. The gang mentality comes in to give the dissenters a good kicking; as if users are afraid that Cockos will throw in the towel, sell it on to a bigger company that will give it a lick of cosmetic paint, hundreds of MBs of second rate plugin dross to download every other month, an annoying mandatory downloader program, and abandon development of the functionality after a few months, as other commercial opportunities appear (companies with good ideas to buy up and destroy).
Well that's the thing isn't it.

Everything in life is filled with tradeoffs.

Avid stock is at $5.02 USD at time of this post, slightly off its all time low of $4.07 USD Dec 2 2016.

If Avid had to throw in the towel there would be a bunch of mega-corps going at it in heavy litigation.

Avid users complain about persistent bugs, endless pricing issues and slow release cycles.

We have a lot less of that here.

But there is a tradeoff.

The software engineers and graphic artists at a company like Avid are shielded from the public in 2 pertinent ways:
1) They generally don't get user feedback directly
2) They aren't as invested personally because they are part of a large corporation.

Here we have a very open, extremely responsive relationship with the devs, graphics designer and manual writer.

These are actual "Human beings with feelings", and I for one choose to treat them in a very civil manner.

So whenever I see a post that says "Reaper sucks at a task" or "Reaper has an ugly graphic whatever", I get ready for what has often been called fanboism, but in my estimation this isn't exactly true.

I most often see this reaction when the OP disses without providing alternatives or even mildly constructive criticism.

So here's an open request to ALL posters:

If you don't like something, by all means speak up, but be prepared for pushback, be able to support your position with well thought out constructive alternatives to whatever it is you dislike and consider this little paradox -- OP disses Reaper and then disses fanbois for dissing him/her -- see ? -- the phrase "dish it out but can't take it" comes to mind.

And just to make sure this thread gets banished to the lounge

Trump says Obama care sucks and we must destroy it.

Obama responds with "OK, show me something better and I will publicly back it".

If you don't get the difference between those two approaches, drop Reaper immediately, go buy ProTools and maybe even invest in Avid stock, I hear it's going at bargain rates prices right now.

If you do understand the difference, contemplate what life would be like if the few folks (less than 10) decided they've had enough and just walked away -- that's a chilling thought in my world.

Yeah, yeah, i know, I'm Canadian, that's just how we roll
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Old 01-18-2017, 06:30 AM   #45
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Irvin Man there's a copycat theme for nearly every popular DAW in the market.
Apart from the Midi Editor which remains helplessly untweakable, if you prefer Reaper Workflow but with Cubase,Protools,Logic you name it UI, you can do it, so what's your point ?
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Old 01-18-2017, 06:40 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Lorbakounet View Post
Apart from the Midi Editor which remains helplessly untweakable
Tons of MIDI editor script prove you wrong.
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Old 01-18-2017, 06:43 AM   #47
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Tons of MIDI editor script prove you wrong.
I know what you mean ED, but I was not specific enough. I was referring to midi note names, possibility to dock more than one toolbar in the midi editor and stuff like that.
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Old 01-18-2017, 06:51 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Irvin View Post
Sorry, guys, but blind fanboyism is not an answer. Mr WhiteTie (or whatever the name is) may be a professional to you, but he has delivered a real turd when it comes to Reaper's GUI. That thing is out of the 90's: old, ugly and with a terrible greenish color scheme that only Shrek would like.
What theme are you using? The green one was Default 3, Default 4 kept a bit of it, but Default 5 is grey with a very small tint toward cyan.

Anyway, I'd like to suggest that the response you've gotten isn't fanboyism, it's people who are tired of seeing the same thread with the same complaints - "ugly", "unprofessional", and so forth.

I don't think Reaper's GUI is especially pretty, but it's not ugly. It works. And as others have pointed out, WT does this sort of thing for a living and knows what he's doing.

Subjective complaints are just that; subjective. What response did you expect?
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Old 01-18-2017, 06:56 AM   #49
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Completely unrelated but, hey, EvilDragon, how can you find time to post on nearly every every forum related to the audio industry and yet find extra time to :

- Beta test stuff
- Make kontakt scripts
- Make music
- Sleep

Do you ever sleep ?
Do you take drugs ? If yes, which ones, I definitely need the same (amphetamines ? speed ? )
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Old 01-18-2017, 07:02 AM   #50
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Hmm, you can run that in your controlled, dark environment What is so unfashionable about being polite on forums?

As someone born in the 20th century who doesn't get off on rudeness unless it's very funny, I hope you don't mind if us polite, thinking people take a back seat while you turn this thread into a rowdy parrot cage free-for-all and send it on its way to sh**sville?
Hey, don't get me wrong, I'm all for civilised behaviour. These words set me off, because they'll usually get used for the lack of real arguments.

And when you look at history, the rules of courteous behaviour always were invented by the top layer, to keep the bottom layer quiet. That's how the church operates too. And this control manner drips down into the bottom layer.

Besides, nobody who is on this forum behaves in a rowdy manner. There have been a few, but these have been run off, or banned.
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Old 01-18-2017, 07:03 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Lorbakounet View Post
Completely unrelated but, hey, EvilDragon, how can you find time to post on nearly every every forum related to the audio industry and yet find extra time to :

- Beta test stuff
- Make kontakt scripts
- Make music
- Sleep

Do you ever sleep ?
Do you take drugs ? If yes, which ones, I definitely need the same (amphetamines ? speed ? )
I'm clean. As in no drugs, no smoking. Occasional beer and whiskey, though

I do sleep 6-8 hours every day.

I don't make music, sadly. My beta-testing goes hand in hand with my work in making Kontakt scripts (so, I mainly beta-test Kontakt, but I do help out other companies like u-he, Tokyo Dawn Labs, Modartt, etc.) and producing a local band here.


Thanks for your concern, though
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Old 01-18-2017, 07:04 AM   #52
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Incidentally, and keeping in mind my original comment at the top of the thread, it seems like this is a real pet peeve for Irvin. Why he keeps making the same thread and expecting a different response is a bit confusing:

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=164836
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=172607
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Old 01-18-2017, 07:09 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
I'm clean. As in no drugs, no smoking. Occasional beer and whiskey, though

I do sleep 6-8 hours every day.

Thanks for your concern, though
Man I was hoping to find the definitive solution to my chronic asthenia
But thanks for your reply
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Old 01-18-2017, 07:12 AM   #54
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I do think it's rather plain myself - I often think I'd like something sexed up and glossy.
Easy to be seduced by glamour.

The UI can be complex too, once you get into scripts and the more obscure dropdowns.
I think it can put new users off. My buddy loves his Garage Band and thinks Reaper looks old fashioned. But, yeah, smoke and mirrors.
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Old 01-18-2017, 07:12 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Lorbakounet View Post
Man I was hoping to find the definitive solution to my chronic asthenia
But thanks for your reply
Chronic asthenia?

I'd say eat good food, excercise, and have enjoyable amounts of sex. (I do all of those except excercise... well sex is kinda in the ballpark isn't it?)
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Old 01-18-2017, 07:17 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Softsynth View Post
Why is Irvin being shot down for this?
It is much like when Mik Composer and friends like to moan about MIDI editing in piano roll. The gang mentality comes in to give the dissenters a good kicking; as if users are afraid that Cockos will throw in the towel, sell it on to a bigger company that will give it a lick of cosmetic paint, hundreds of MBs of second rate plugin dross to download every other month, an annoying mandatory downloader program, and abandon development of the functionality after a few months, as other commercial opportunities appear (companies with good ideas to buy up and destroy).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Well that's the thing isn't it.

Everything in life is filled with tradeoffs.

Avid stock is at $5.02 USD at time of this post, slightly off its all time low of $4.07 USD Dec 2 2016.

If Avid had to throw in the towel there would be a bunch of mega-corps going at it in heavy litigation.

Avid users complain about persistent bugs, endless pricing issues and slow release cycles.

We have a lot less of that here.

But there is a tradeoff.

The software engineers and graphic artists at a company like Avid are shielded from the public in 2 pertinent ways:
1) They generally don't get user feedback directly
2) They aren't as invested personally because they are part of a large corporation.

Here we have a very open, extremely responsive relationship with the devs, graphics designer and manual writer.

These are actual "Human beings with feelings", and I for one choose to treat them in a very civil manner.

So whenever I see a post that says "Reaper sucks at a task" or "Reaper has an ugly graphic whatever", I get ready for what has often been called fanboism, but in my estimation this isn't exactly true.

I most often see this reaction when the OP disses without providing alternatives or even mildly constructive criticism.

So here's an open request to ALL posters:

If you don't like something, by all means speak up, but be prepared for pushback, be able to support your position with well thought out constructive alternatives to whatever it is you dislike and consider this little paradox -- OP disses Reaper and then disses fanbois for dissing him/her -- see ? -- the phrase "dish it out but can't take it" comes to mind.

And just to make sure this thread gets banished to the lounge

Trump says Obama care sucks and we must destroy it.

Obama responds with "OK, show me something better and I will publicly back it".

If you don't get the difference between those two approaches, drop Reaper immediately, go buy ProTools and maybe even invest in Avid stock, I hear it's going at bargain rates prices right now.

If you do understand the difference, contemplate what life would be like if the few folks (less than 10) decided they've had enough and just walked away -- that's a chilling thought in my world.

Yeah, yeah, i know, I'm Canadian, that's just how we roll
I agree I did not like the way he phrased his OP. Negotiation is not strong when you start with attack, especially without constructive suggestions. Trump will hopefully learn this soon (if he is capable of learning and still outside the four walls of a prison cell)

Quoting my words out of the context of the following lines from the same post (not quoted by you) doesn't help. Clearly from those you should see I do not feel Reaper requires major change - just the opposite, but there are other considerations:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Softsynth View Post
Obviously to us Reaper does most things right but if the same issues keep cropping up then they are worth consideration. simple modifications on the base theme improve Reaper substantially and yet do not come in the standard download.

Lokasenna's Nitpicky theme, Commala dark theme, 2016 Reaper 5 dark theme and in the past the RADO theme have all been to me a substantial improvement for little download space. It puzzles me that Reaper went with the base theme such as it is, without offering some others as default options. Various skins point to improvements without making Reaper another large, unwieldy download behemoth.

Several different users (elsewhere) have had PMs with me and told me they do not like Reaper because it is plain or ugly. Shallow maybe, first impressions.......
Of course I like the theme/mods I mention above and some used the Reaper 5 theme as a base to develop. Notably Nitpicky and dark 5 theme substantially improve the basic theme to my eyes with simple solutions. It seems as basic as adding that as an option in the initial download!
Justin et al are hardly going to throw in the towel for a small modification like that!!!
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Old 01-18-2017, 07:18 AM   #57
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Chronic asthenia?
Around here we call it "having a toddler".
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Old 01-18-2017, 07:18 AM   #58
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Chronic asthenia?

I'd say eat good food, excercise, and have enjoyable amounts of sex. (I do all of those except excercise... well sex is kinda in the ballpark isn't it?)
YES IT IS !

As for good food and Exercise, when was the last time I did this ? Oh yeah, when I was old enough to sound clever by quoting Churchill's "NO SPORT" and pay for my daily (yes, daily) own junk food.
So unfortunately you may be right once again. There's no magic potion
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Old 01-18-2017, 07:20 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Lokasenna View Post
Around here we call it "having a toddler".
You nailed it ! Exactly


Infinitely cute and Infinitely exhausting
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Old 01-18-2017, 07:21 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Vagalume View Post
If you don't need it just don't write.
It is very valuable to tell the developers that some change is notneeded so that they can concentrate on more important stuff.

(And a "new GUI" might be better for some and worth for others. So the effect sums up to zero, anyway.)

-Michael
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Old 01-18-2017, 07:23 AM   #61
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I'm enjoying the way we're counter-trolling this topic
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Old 01-18-2017, 07:23 AM   #62
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Around here we call it "having a toddler".
I just went by the word definition, didn't know it implies having a child, oops.


That may well be in store for me this year, too... dunno yet!
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Old 01-18-2017, 07:26 AM   #63
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That may well be in store for me this year, too... dunno yet!
Ooooh ! That's all I can hope for you.
However be prepared to show your avatar quite less often around here !
Otherwise, that would mean there's more than sex, exercise and good food to your way of life and then I'll have to conduct a full proper research on this topic !
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Old 01-18-2017, 07:27 AM   #64
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That may well be in store for me this year, too... dunno yet!
It would be an unusual set of circumstances if you don't know whether you will have a toddler this year.
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Old 01-18-2017, 07:30 AM   #65
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It would be an unusual set of circumstances if you don't know whether you will have a toddler this year.
FWIW women do not give birth to toddlers!
Other animals have offspring that walk almost immediately, we do not.
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Old 01-18-2017, 07:35 AM   #66
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It would be an unusual set of circumstances if you don't know whether you will have a toddler this year.
Haha! Well I, personally, am not giving birth to anything (I may have expressed myself incorrectly above), but let's say we're in the waiting period before we do the test to confirm the state of the matter.
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Old 01-18-2017, 07:36 AM   #67
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I agree I did not like the way he phrased his OP. Negotiation is not strong when you start with attack, especially without constructive suggestions. Trump will hopefully learn this soon (if he is capable of learning and still outside the four walls of a prison cell)

Quoting my words out of the context of the following lines from the same post (not quoted by you) doesn't help. Clearly from those you should see I do not feel Reaper requires major change - just the opposite, but there are other considerations:



Of course I like the theme/mods I mention above and some used the Reaper 5 theme as a base to develop. Notably Nitpicky and dark 5 theme substantially improve the basic theme to my eyes with simple solutions. It seems as basic as adding that as an option in the initial download!
Justin et al are hardly going to throw in the towel for a small modification like that!!!
My apologies, my intention was to show how things might be if Reaper was a multinational conglomerate, and I only posted the portion of your post that illustrated that point.

In no way did I mean to denigrate your post, which was on the money from my perspective.

All good.
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Old 01-18-2017, 07:42 AM   #68
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That thing is out of the 90's: old, ugly and with a terrible greenish color scheme that only Shrek would like.
Shrek + me = 2 satisfied users

Now, I'd say it's a good idea for a DAW to have 2-3 good default themes, as taste is just different.
But, Cockos has made a good effort to support custom themes,
so, It's not that reasonable to moan.

Unless, of course, if you like to moan.

But the math is like this:
Complaining + DoingAnEffortYourself = 1
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Old 01-18-2017, 07:47 AM   #69
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This is really amazing, every week some users ask for changes, for instance a nicer gui ... and suddenly other users say he doesn't need that, he should try another DAW, who the f€~# are you?

If you don't need it just don't write.

I don't need a nicer GUI so I won't say anything about the subject,

... but let the people who support this idea express themselves and ask whatever they want.
Mostly fanboys, but we need tools and use whatever is giving us results, no matter what da, i dont want to be so attached to some daw to become fanboy, but reaper is really gettting my nr 1, there are some flows, and it can be done with some patients and researh and ask how has experience. I have been using it aroumd month, some are just lazy ass and dont want to but effort in and look and ask people if help is needed, questions towards "missing features" there are so many forkarounds in reaper, i am into electronic stuff.
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Old 01-18-2017, 07:49 AM   #70
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My apologies, my intention was to show how things might be if Reaper was a multinational conglomerate, and I only posted the portion of your post that illustrated that point.

In no way did I mean to denigrate your post, which was on the money from my perspective.

All good.
Sorry man, not offended, I could see you were agreeing with my point. Given how defensive members get on threads like this get (like an overactive immune system) I wanted the comments to be kept in context.

We agree Reaper is fundamentally what we want from a DAW. I look at Lokasenna's nitpicky theme and the Dark 5 theme and wonder why they are not simply added to the standard download and made a prominent feature (easy to find for newbies). Presumably at zero cost and next to no time in development.

I can see how newbies could be put off by most of the themes that are out there.
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Old 01-18-2017, 07:49 AM   #71
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Why is Irvin being shot down for this?
It is much like when Mik Composer and friends like to moan about MIDI editing in piano roll. The gang mentality comes in to give the dissenters a good kicking; .
I think you are reading things into this that just arent there.

Forgot to add that I just checked the OPs posting statistics and it would appear that more than half of the threads he has started refer to crap themes, terrible gui, etc., without offering a single suggestion as to what might improve it, even from just his own perspective.


And the biggest problem with Mik is that whenever anyone mentions a problem they are having, he has a tendency to wade in with a "yeah me too" whilst at the same time not really contributing much to the debate.
When he DOES actually contribute, it is generally fairly sensible, which is why I for one put up with his whines. (Sorry, Mik! but...)

And Irvin is being shot down far more for his initial and continued combative attitude.
Anyway I am off to make some music.....
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Old 01-18-2017, 07:54 AM   #72
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I think you are reading things into this that just arent there.

And the biggest problem with Mik is that whenever anyone mentions a problem they are having, he has a tendency to wade in with a "yeah me too" whilst at the same time not really contributing much to the debate.
When he DOES actually contribute, it is generally fairly sensible, which is why I for one put up with his whines. (Sorry, Mik! but...)

And Irvin is being shot down far more for his initial and continued combative attitude.
I addressed that in my following posts. See above.

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Anyway I am off to make some music.....
Best idea in this thread.
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Old 01-18-2017, 07:55 AM   #73
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But you won't win any friends in playing the man instead of the ball. ..
I've never heard this phrase before, but it wins my "Phrase of the Week" award. I'm dead serious -- I'm going to definitely remember and use this one!
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Old 01-18-2017, 07:55 AM   #74
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It would be an unusual set of circumstances if you don't know whether you will have a toddler this year.
Not necessarily. Foster parenting comes to mind. Not exactly common, but not all that unusual either.
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Old 01-18-2017, 07:58 AM   #75
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Why is Irvin being shot down for this?
Perhaps for making comments like this...

"the GUI has been put in the hands of people who are not qualified for the task.

Reaper's GUI needs real professionals, not well-meaning amateurs. "

Or are Emotional Hemophiliacs above reproach for their comments and instant accusations of fanboyism when their assertions are questioned?
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Old 01-18-2017, 08:02 AM   #76
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I just went by the word definition, didn't know it implies having a child, oops.


That may well be in store for me this year, too... dunno yet!
It was joke, as in "I have chronic ataxia from following her around". But good luck anyway.
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Old 01-18-2017, 08:06 AM   #77
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And the biggest problem with Mik is that whenever anyone mentions a problem they are having, he has a tendency to wade in with a "yeah me too" whilst at the same time not really contributing much to the debate.
When he DOES actually contribute, it is generally fairly sensible, which is why I for one put up with his whines. (Sorry, Mik! but...)
The biggest problem with Mik is he assumes all his ills are due to a bug in Reaper and not his own setup or mechanics. How many threads did he start about low level renders only to find out his sends out of the master bus were not set to unity? On top of that, his mechanism for testing was switching between Reaper and Win Media Player. For f---s sake, could he have picked a less objective way to compare signals?!

As ED said, PEBKAC. I prefer biological interface error myself.

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And Irvin is being shot down far more for his initial and continued combative attitude.
Exactly.
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Old 01-18-2017, 08:08 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by Filthy McNasty View Post
Perhaps for making comments like this...

"the GUI has been put in the hands of people who are not qualified for the task.

Reaper's GUI needs real professionals, not well-meaning amateurs. "

Or are Emotional Hemophiliacs above reproach for their comments and instant accusations of fanboyism when their assertions are questioned?
His manner does indeed leave a lot to be desired. No excuse for that.
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Old 01-18-2017, 08:09 AM   #79
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I find my theme looks great, and makes reaper a pretty great looking and functional DAW. I could sell it to you if you want

I find Pro Tools looks old and crappy, like it's from the 90s. Idk why you'd want *that* theme. Have you considered perhaps that you simply have bad taste?
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Old 01-18-2017, 08:44 AM   #80
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I find my theme looks great, and makes reaper a pretty great looking and functional DAW. I could sell it to you if you want

I find Pro Tools looks old and crappy, like it's from the 90s. Idk why you'd want *that* theme. Have you considered perhaps that you simply have bad taste?
Pah!, we see through the ruse Irvin, nice try, first create market demand..............
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