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05-26-2020, 08:32 AM
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#81
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Caracas, Venezuela
Posts: 8,676
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I know you're probably on bug hunting mode right now so FRs have to wait a few revisions but nonetheless I'd like to leave this here for later:
AREA SELECTION EDITING POINTS:
There are a few hot spots for editing the content within the Area Selection in Nuendo and I think REAPER would benefit quite a lot if they there implemented. Let's see...
Tilt Content: At the top left and right borders of the area selection there are two spots that you can use to TILT the content. Like this...
Compress content: Now, if you hold Option (or Alt on Windows) you can compress the content like this...
Scale content: At the top of the area (center) there is a spot for scaling the content like this...
Scale content vertically: And if you hold Shift you can trim the content like this...
Just food for thought...
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Pressure is what turns coal into diamonds - Michael a.k.a. Runaway
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05-26-2020, 08:39 AM
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#82
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,924
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So powerfull tool !
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05-26-2020, 08:43 AM
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#83
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 3,117
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Guys this is still happening though:
Tried every combination of options involving inertia on/off/suppressed.
This has always been a bit of a thing, but It markedly got worse in 6.11 >
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05-26-2020, 08:53 AM
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#84
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mccrabney
if i understand schwa correctly, it looks like we'll have that option soon.
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As long as we still have BOTH options though It's very useful to have reaper do both as you might be copying over an area that has items in the spaces that you don't want in the newly moved/copied area
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subproject FRs click here
note: don't search for my pseudonym on the web. The "musicbynumbers" you find is not me or the name I use for my own music.
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05-26-2020, 08:55 AM
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#85
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 3,117
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Back to the good stuff:
Area Selection: Duplicating Envelope Changes Tension of Source
1. Notice tension before duplication is -1.0.
2. Duplication is run, tension of SOURCE is now -0.860. Oddly tension of PASTE is correct at -1.0.
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05-26-2020, 08:56 AM
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#86
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,214
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Mercado.
If we eventually get all of those things you've just shown natively then that will be the icing on the cake for sure!
Especially if it can also work on midi and CCs too!
For sound design, I'm also wanting the stretching we now have with "AS" to also allow for "handles that when adjusted they will curve the linear stretch to allow more stretching say at the start and less at the end or vice versa!
That would be amazing!
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subproject FRs click here
note: don't search for my pseudonym on the web. The "musicbynumbers" you find is not me or the name I use for my own music.
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05-26-2020, 08:57 AM
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#87
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,214
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As for the dividers.
I actually like them, just a bit thinner and they do serve a purpose
Again, options are the reaper way so if these were part of the theme editor that would be awesome.
__________________
subproject FRs click here
note: don't search for my pseudonym on the web. The "musicbynumbers" you find is not me or the name I use for my own music.
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05-26-2020, 09:09 AM
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#88
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Black Forest
Posts: 5,054
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovnis
Divider lines between tracks seems me inefficient and unsightly.
It would be nice if the thickness of border of the area selection could be the same than that of the marquee selection.
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I would get rid of the divider lines completely and only draw them at the very edges of the items.
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05-26-2020, 09:15 AM
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#89
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Stevie_
I would get rid of the divider lines completely and only draw them at the very edges of the items.
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+1 Agreed. I would actually choose to not have them at all. The highlight already indicates the selection and is an established standard way of doing it. You don't need to hammer it home visually by putting dividers around everything. I would be ok with a thin, thin mind you, line around the borders of the entire selection. But I think in general they just obfuscate instead of help.
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05-26-2020, 09:38 AM
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#90
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Austria, near Lake Constance
Posts: 453
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+1 for changing the devider lines (thinner, only edges, get rid of them completely, etc.). At the moment it doesn´t look as clean as it could.
Thanks Devs for this feature... as I changed from another DAW a couple months ago I really missed this feature... Time-Selection did the job somehow too... but this is much better. :-) THANKS
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05-26-2020, 10:32 AM
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#91
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Stevie_
BTW ED, I think you can remove "Plugin naming redundancy!" from your sig :P
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Ha, nice spot. Totally forgot about that
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05-26-2020, 10:35 AM
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#92
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,813
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Quote:
Originally Posted by operator
+1 for changing the devider lines (thinner, only edges, get rid of them completely, etc.). At the moment it doesn´t look as clean as it could.
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+1 get rid
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05-26-2020, 10:41 AM
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#93
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,813
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro
Just food for thought...
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This would be amazing
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05-26-2020, 10:50 AM
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#94
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 4,105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro
Just food for thought...
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Wouldn't that make more sense as a part of Automation Items?
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05-26-2020, 10:50 AM
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#95
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Terra incognita
Posts: 7,670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klangfarben
The highlight already indicates the selection and is an established standard way of doing it.
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I see those dividers helpful for clear selection and adjusting of selected areas across the tracks. I can quickly marquee an area covering several tracks and then remove from the selection the tracks/envelopes I don't want while keeping the rest. Really handy feature.
Without the dividers, one could still hover over the given tracks they'd want to remove, but there would not be clear visual indication of all those areas really being separate as they are in this regard. And the related mouse modifier action is Remove one area selection. To me that also suggests that there is not one bigger selected area anyway, but rather individual area selections per track, but created in one marquee action? Highlighting the per track area when related modifier is pressed could be another way to remove dividers, but make the individual choices still visible?
To be truly individual per track area selection, individual horizontal adjustment per track would make sense too. But I understood there's a restriction to that? I mean in a case when a selection covering several tracks has been made.
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05-26-2020, 11:00 AM
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#96
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,813
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia
Wouldn't that make more sense as a part of Automation Items?
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Not in my opinion. Would be a pitty to see this limited to AI and not to envelopes with no AI. In area selection is much more powerful and versatil and AI's inherit it anyway.
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05-26-2020, 11:09 AM
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#97
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 4,105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deeb
Not in my opinion. Would be a pitty to see this limited to AI and not to envelopes with no AI. In area selection is much more powerful and versatil and AI's inherit it anyway.
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Imagine this:
1. Create Area Selection
2. Turn Area Selection into Automation item(s)
3. Go crazy!!!
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05-26-2020, 11:09 AM
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#98
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xpander
I see those dividers helpful for clear selection and adjusting of selected areas across the tracks. I can quickly marquee an area covering several tracks and then remove from the selection the tracks/envelopes I don't want while keeping the rest. Really handy feature.
Without the dividers, one could still hover over the given tracks they'd want to remove, but there would not be clear visual indication of all those areas really being separate as they are in this regard.
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There is no good reason for the user to perceive every area seperate by default as they move/delete/copy together by default. Being able to tweak them seperately is a much rarer usecase and it makes sense that the information would only be presented when the user needs it rather than showing it all the time.
Holding a modifier and clicking/dragging on tracks within areas to exclude tracks in general will be much easier to operate compared to looking for an edge hotspot and dragging it, and is consistent with general standards for how selection is handled in operating systems and various other software.
And as a benefit you don't have to put dividers everywhere.
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05-26-2020, 11:12 AM
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#99
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BirdBird
Holding a modifier and clicking/dragging on tracks within areas to exclude tracks in general will be much easier to operate compared to looking for an edge hotspot and dragging it, and is consistent with general standards for how selection is handled in operating systems and various other software.
And as a benefit you don't have to put dividers everywhere.
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+1 Agreed. This would be much more consistent with expected behavior/general standards.
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05-26-2020, 11:14 AM
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#100
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Caracas, Venezuela
Posts: 8,676
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia
Wouldn't that make more sense as a part of Automation Items?
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Automation items can have that, no problem; but what if you didn't use Automation Items? Let's have it, it won't hurt
Quote:
Originally Posted by xpander
I see those dividers helpful for clear selection and adjusting of selected areas across the tracks. I can quickly marquee an area covering several tracks and then remove from the selection the tracks/envelopes I don't want while keeping the rest. Really handy feature.
Without the dividers, one could still hover over the given tracks they'd want to remove, but there would not be clear visual indication of all those areas really being separate as they are in this regard. And the related mouse modifier action is Remove one area selection. To me that also suggests that there is not one bigger selected area anyway, but rather individual area selections per track, but created in one marquee action? Highlighting the per track area when related modifier is pressed could be another way to remove dividers, but make the individual choices still visible?
To be truly individual per track area selection, individual horizontal adjustment per track would make sense too. But I understood there's a restriction to that? I mean in a case when a selection covering several tracks has been made.
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There's no need to consider them as separate areas using dividers. You're selecting a whole area, it doesn't matter if it's just one track or several. Visually you don't need the software to tell you several tracks or lanes were covered with a divider.
__________________
Pressure is what turns coal into diamonds - Michael a.k.a. Runaway
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05-26-2020, 11:21 AM
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#101
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 5,247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
Yeah I mean... Studio One:
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Yup, indeed, amazing implementation of Area Selection in S1.
Cockos now introduced AS in Reaper (my god, so amazing !) and i am confident they will develop it further towards S1 level.
You rock Cockos !
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05-26-2020, 11:28 AM
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#102
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Terra incognita
Posts: 7,670
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It seems not everybody has actually tried the Remove one area selection mouse modifier yet to understand what I was saying?
I do understand how people liken one marquee selection as one individual area selection and how it actually works like that in some regards. But not in every way.
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05-26-2020, 11:33 AM
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#103
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,813
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xpander
It seems not everybody has actually tried the Remove one area selection mouse modifier yet to understand what I was saying?
I do understand how people liken one marquee selection as one individual area selection and how it actually works like that in some regards. But not in every way.
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Yes but the borders still are redundant , if I understand what you mean. One colour is enough to define area. No need of border with different colour.
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05-26-2020, 11:34 AM
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#104
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Caracas, Venezuela
Posts: 8,676
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xpander
It seems not everybody has actually tried the Remove one area selection mouse modifier yet to understand what I was saying?
I do understand how people liken one marquee selection as one individual area selection and how it actually works like that in some regards. But not in every way.
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I have tried it, yes. And when the modifier was held, the X in the cursor told me everything I needed to know: you're about to remove that track or lane from the area. I didn't need the dividers to make that decision.
__________________
Pressure is what turns coal into diamonds - Michael a.k.a. Runaway
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05-26-2020, 11:42 AM
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#105
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Terra incognita
Posts: 7,670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro
I have tried it, yes. And when the modifier was held, the X in the cursor told me everything I needed to know: you're about to remove that track or lane from the area. I didn't need the dividers to make that decision.
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But there's the problem. We are supposed to think of a single marqueed area as a single entity (no dividers), yet when we use e.g this remove area action, we are supposed to switch our thinking to acknowledging the fact that only single track areas are removed...and that without any visual clue it is going to happen?*) I can remember that too, but will it be that easy for everybody?
edit:
*) Yes, the X is there and surely helps showing what you are about to do. But with Remove all area selections action it's still only there by the mouse cursor. I don't suggest having X over every track then, just saying we can't have everything clear with this type of indication.
Last edited by xpander; 05-26-2020 at 12:19 PM.
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05-26-2020, 11:49 AM
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#106
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,067
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Wow.
This is very exciting. Like Mercado_Negro had mentioned, I know this is supposed to be about bugs, but I'll put this out anyway.
I use pre fx envelopes on tracks, and not separate envelope lanes.
It would be incredible if we could area select multitrack envelopes, and have envelopes move at the same time.
Thread from 2011. https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....143#post752143
Here's a old mockup I did years ago when area selection was mentioned.
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05-26-2020, 11:54 AM
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#107
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xpander
But there's the problem. We are supposed to think of a single marqueed area as a single entity (no dividers), yet when we use e.g this remove area action, we are supposed to switch our thinking to acknowledging the fact that only single track areas are removed...and that without any visual clue it is going to happen? I can remember that too, but will it be that easy for everybody?
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Yes they will be fine. Holding a modifier and clicking on things to remove them from selection is a design standard. Better way to give the user feedback could be to highlight the area they are hovering over when they are holding the modifier to exclude tracks from the area rather than showing dividers all the time.
Last edited by BirdBird; 05-26-2020 at 11:59 AM.
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05-26-2020, 12:00 PM
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#108
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Belgium
Posts: 10,474
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A Nice addition to Area selection would be TRANSIENT SNAPPING!
draggin, touching a transient, note (if options note as transient, etc) -> Some kind of snapping happen (just like grid snap)
earth start spinning the other way
edit : not just for area, TRANSIENT SNAPPING would be a true killer option
Last edited by Reno.thestraws; 05-26-2020 at 12:06 PM.
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05-26-2020, 12:05 PM
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#109
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 3,117
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Hoping Area Selection doesn't introduce a whole whack of new Melodyne lost edit scenarios...going in on testing this rn.
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05-26-2020, 12:15 PM
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#110
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexan
One more question regarding visual feedback:
When moving envelopes they hide overlapping destination, could that be done with items?
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But on the other hand it is useful if one wants to align the new items to the old ones... I like it as it is.. Perhaps the items that are moved or the ones that already are there could be more fainted so that they are more distinguishable.
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05-26-2020, 12:45 PM
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#111
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 4,105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro
Automation items can have that, no problem; but what if you didn't use Automation Items? Let's have it, it won't hurt
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But with that logic, why not have ALL of the features that Automation Items have without the need for Automation Items?
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05-26-2020, 12:55 PM
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#112
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Larisa, Greece
Posts: 3,797
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Yeap why not, i agree, then an action to create AIs in AS would be nice for the task to use them as containers for rythmic gating , looping them to paint faster shapes, saving their presets with different shapes. AIs are def still useful
Last edited by Vagelis; 05-26-2020 at 01:02 PM.
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05-26-2020, 01:15 PM
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#113
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Caracas, Venezuela
Posts: 8,676
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia
But with that logic, why not have ALL of the features that Automation Items have without the need for Automation Items?
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Ok, I can't argue with that
While that is more powerful than what Nuendo offers I have to say that having those spots right there in the area without the need of summoning a window with options is more productive and efficient.
__________________
Pressure is what turns coal into diamonds - Michael a.k.a. Runaway
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05-26-2020, 01:28 PM
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#114
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia
But with that logic, why not have ALL of the features that Automation Items have without the need for Automation Items?
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This right here. The only thing still missing for heavy midi work. This without the need for automation items. Now that CC envelopes finally function like automation lanes, having this for both automation without AIs and having it on CCs natively (without third party scripts) would be a dream.
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05-26-2020, 01:46 PM
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#115
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 13,333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia
Wouldn't that make more sense as a part of Automation Items?
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What if you wanna tweak more than one parameter simultaneously?
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05-26-2020, 02:00 PM
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#116
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 4,105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vitalker
What if you wanna tweak more than one parameter simultaneously?
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Automation Items is perfect for that. Pool them and adjust them together.
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05-26-2020, 02:02 PM
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#117
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 4,105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro
Ok, I can't argue with that
While that is more powerful than what Nuendo offers I have to say that having those spots right there in the area without the need of summoning a window with options is more productive and efficient.
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Yeah. I'm really not trying to say that they can't both be in both places.
But what you did and what I showed in my picture, should either be in both places or just one together.
Having them apart seems weird to me. Anywhoo
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05-26-2020, 02:34 PM
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#118
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 13,333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia
Automation Items is perfect for that. Pool them and adjust them together.
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Pooled means same, so it won't be possible to apply it to different automation items.
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05-26-2020, 02:45 PM
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#119
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Caracas, Venezuela
Posts: 8,676
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia
Yeah. I'm really not trying to say that they can't both be in both places.
But what you did and what I showed in my picture, should either be in both places or just one together.
Having them apart seems weird to me. Anywhoo
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Maybe Cockos could simplify things and instead of doing it in a window it could be presented right there in the area/AI? It would be more intuitive and practical for sure.
__________________
Pressure is what turns coal into diamonds - Michael a.k.a. Runaway
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05-26-2020, 04:32 PM
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#120
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Black Forest
Posts: 5,054
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Yup, definitely. Count me in here.
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