Old 04-25-2012, 12:46 PM   #1
scarlton
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Default Steinberg Houston plugin

I'm working on a plugin to support the Houston control surface, so I'm looking for people who have a Houston and would be willing to test and provide feedback.

I realize there won't be many people here who still have one, but I know there are a few anyway. It's a decent surface, so let's get it working with Reaper.


Also many thanks to inthepipeline for capturing some of the Houston protocol and making it available here, it's been a good starting point for the plugin.
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Old 04-27-2012, 11:04 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scarlton View Post
I'm working on a plugin to support the Houston control surface, so I'm looking for people who have a Houston and would be willing to test and provide feedback.

I realize there won't be many people here who still have one, but I know there are a few anyway. It's a decent surface, so let's get it working with Reaper.


Also many thanks to inthepipeline for capturing some of the Houston protocol and making it available here, it's been a good starting point for the plugin.
Hi Scarlton,

That is awesome news!! On a related front I have also made some strides converting my HUI into an mcu! And if ur houston Reaper csurf imolementation is better than available csurfs for MCU..ill turn it into a houston! Wow..things are starting to converge^^
I am no coder ..i just convert the midi messages with bomes. Which makes me think..Why not ..dont get pissed banned.. "standardize kinda" the Reaper end and convert any midi spittin box into whatever standard u say?

A lot of these boxes are alot alike..8 faders ..transport...buttons..dispaly..as u know its just a mater of the "midi alphabet". I hope i am not being naive..but to my eyes that helps EVERYONE.
But I defer to u ..its ur baby after all^^

Guido
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Old 04-27-2012, 12:02 PM   #3
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[...] Which makes me think..Why not ..dont get pissed banned.. "standardize kinda" the Reaper end and convert any midi spittin box into whatever standard u say?

A lot of these boxes are alot alike..8 faders ..transport...buttons..dispaly..as u know its just a mater of the "midi alphabet". I hope i am not being naive..but to my eyes that helps EVERYONE.[...]
I think we already more or less agreed (on that HUI docs thread that you started) that it would be a good idea to standardize/share where feasible and practical. I'm all in favor. And I'll also be following this thread with great interest, although I don't have a Steinberg Houston.

But, to be clear, the approach that I hinted at does not need any further standardization on the REAPER end - it just taps into its existing features. As I explained in that other thread already, imho the difficult part is not about making some standardized list of MIDI CC# numbers and channels to use, but about making some standardized or ideal UI, which involves having to make choices of a much more subjective character.

Perhaps we should make something like a feature comparison chart/map for different protocols/models, so it's clear how much features they share, whether and how much their implementation differs, etc., so we can more clearly see what scope there is for some kind of uniform abstraction layer.
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Old 04-27-2012, 12:08 PM   #4
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Default Woooohoooooo!

I AM HERE!!!!!

Please pick me for testing!
Oh please please!!

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Old 04-27-2012, 03:31 PM   #5
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I think we already more or less agreed (on that HUI docs thread that you started) that it would be a good idea to standardize/share where feasible and practical. I'm all in favor. And I'll also be following this thread with great interest, although I don't have a Steinberg Houston.

But, to be clear, the approach that I hinted at does not need any further standardization on the REAPER end - it just taps into its existing features. As I explained in that other thread already, imho the difficult part is not about making some standardized list of MIDI CC# numbers and channels to use, but about making some standardized or ideal UI, which involves having to make choices of a much more subjective character.

Perhaps we should make something like a feature comparison chart/map for different protocols/models, so it's clear how much features they share, whether and how much their implementation differs, etc., so we can more clearly see what scope there is for some kind of uniform abstraction layer.
Hi banned,

i getcha. But the bigger picture..now that im neck deep in this shit^^...is how Reaper hadles multip[le control surfaces to set up a system.. im thinking the way logic does it. try runnin an mcu a hui an a houston..once that csurf is finished^^gl scarlton... whhich faders are going to do busses? which are all hust chnl strips?



I cant see of any way to achieve this kinda system..and banned they dont have to be the expensive stuff...just insert what ever csurf supported controller u want that u can kick^^...without a "Super Shell" nativily coded in Reaper.

gotta gig..cyas

Guido








The link to the logic stuff in depth...
http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/Log...urfaceInfo.pdf
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Old 04-28-2012, 11:28 AM   #6
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Hey Scarlton,

how is it going...? Any progress in sight...?
Please don't be mad with me, I just can't wait to give my good ol' Houston a try with Reaper.

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Old 04-28-2012, 12:10 PM   #7
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Perhaps we should make something like a feature comparison chart/map for different protocols/models, so it's clear how much features they share, whether and how much their implementation differs, etc., so we can more clearly see what scope there is for some kind of uniform abstraction layer.
Hi banned..

I think thats a great idea. I cant wait to see ur finished system in action.U know we are saying the same thing. There has to be a system which allows for user configurability. Im puttin my money on you.

guido
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:29 AM   #8
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Just uploaded the plugin to the stash. This is an alpha release, and as such not all functionality is supported, and I'm not responsible if it steals your lunch money or kicks your dog, etc.

What's there:
Faders, panning, banking, display text, select/solo/mute, transport, jog wheel. I intend to put together a quick document describing the functionality available, hopefully get that out this week.

What's not:
Number pad, and pretty much any button that is Cubase-specific and doesn't map directly to REAPER functionality. I think this is where the Houston is problematic, and this plugin being useful will ultimately depend on making these buttons user-configurable, but also providing intelligent defaults. This is where I hope to get the most user feedback.


https://stash.reaper.fm/12480/reaper_houston.zip
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Old 04-29-2012, 01:23 PM   #9
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This is soooo cool!
Just great! I'm gonna check this out tomorrow and get back to you.
I remember, I managed to get all functions of the number-pad done with bome's midi translator (Cubase)....not the most elegant solution, but it worked.
Not even Steini provided everything. More tomorrow.

Thank you so much for this!
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Old 04-29-2012, 04:01 PM   #10
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This is soooo cool!
Just great! I'm gonna check this out tomorrow and get back to you.
I remember, I managed to get all functions of the number-pad done with bome's midi translator (Cubase)....not the most elegant solution, but it worked.
Not even Steini provided everything. More tomorrow.

Thank you so much for this!
Hi,

yay bomes! Im workin with it right now.

@scarlton..yeah!!!..alright u ARE for real! I dont have a houston, but thanks for doinn this. awesome.

Guido
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Old 04-30-2012, 01:48 AM   #11
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@ Guido

Oh you guys are awesome, too!
As far as I'm able to get it, you try to bring this whole csurf thing via OSC on a completely new level. Man..... !
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Old 04-30-2012, 08:54 AM   #12
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@ Guido

Oh you guys are awesome, too!
As far as I'm able to get it, you try to bring this whole csurf thing via OSC on a completely new level. Man..... !
Hi..hehe

banned would be the guy on top of it..i dont know how he does it!

How is the Houston strinxx?

Guido
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Old 04-30-2012, 02:12 PM   #13
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In general it's basic functions are doing great!

Every little while though, it seems to lose it's connection.... kind of...
Transport always works, but Faders stop working... wait a few secs and they are back again.

And hey scarlton, you did it in 32 and 64bit. Great!


So now to the longer part:
These are really just suggestions, about what I think would be cool or handy. I have no idea what's actually really doable, so please scarlton don't be mad with me ok

I try to divide the functions based on the layout.

On the very left we have some automation buttons, one SHIFT and one for the motors:
motors works as expected
read/ write - maybe it's possible to toggle through automation-modes (latch, touch...) by pressing the mode-button.


fader-section and encoders

is it possible to have a different pan-indication, like 1 dot in the middle for 50/50, then the ring "opens" to left/ right depending on the pan?
shift + pan maybe for width?

it "felt" like turning the encoders anticlockwise is very exact and fast, turning clockwise not so much and takes a few more turns to get to 100% right..

pressing "more" next to the scribble strip maybe for db-/ plugin- values and stuff? Could we get some timecode shown - is this doable?


above the encoders some more buttons (yippie!):

Global Send Masters > if possible set master-outputs 1,2,3...?
Send FX > add (new) Quick-FX/ add FX-chain 1,2,3..?
Master FX > add FXon slot 1,2, (with sws extensions)?
Instruments > open VSTi from track-template?

Faderset EQ 1-4 > REA-EQ band 1-4, maybe more values ?
User 1/2 > user defined
Routing > open I/O, add send/recieve/hardware-out 1,2,3..
by entering the corresponding number (id) with the number pad
Pan > show default display/values, like track-names..
FX send 1-8 > adjust send level 1-8, + shift adjust send's pan..?

Selected Chan EQ > + page up/dwn for REAeq, maybe other plugins mappable?
Aux > Sends level
Inserts > + 1,2,3 (number-pad) for inserting FX 1,2,3
(hope I make sense here...)
User 1/2/3 > definable
Routing > maybe open console to set input 1,2,3... (sws)


Transport-section and above

love the "arm" button - this never worked in Cubase, really nice to select some channels and arm them with 1 single click. Cool!

FF/Rwd don't work. Not that bad, we have a jog-wheel but would be handy to really go very fast through a project.
Maybe shift + FF/RWD set cycle in and out, or to go to in/out or begin/end of project?

Jog
Is it possible to have the wheel move by grid settings like half, 4th, 8th, 16th n' stuff. That'd be supercool for editing!
Or move In/Out points with the jog, by pressing shift + turn, according to grid.


Buttons above the transport

Song Save > as expected
Revert > go back to previous version (would this make sense..?)

Edit Undo > as expected
Redo > as exp.
Cancel/No/Yes > no idea.... this neither worked in Cubase

Windows Sets + 1,2,3 (number-pad) > load window-set 1,2,3
shift + 1,2,3 save win-sets 1,2,3
Main > open/close docker shows only arrange area
Edit > open/close editor (midi/inline maybe possible by context)
Studio > show mixer

Marker Jump + 1,2,3 > go to marker 1,2,3
Capture > add marker at current position
Delete + 1,2,3 > delete marker 1,2,3

Functions + 1,2,3 10s + 1,2,3, like 11,12,13 for assignable actions, maybe together with the encoders to move items, change certain values...?

Data to enter number-values, so you don't need to get back to comp-keyboard.

Cursor hmmmmmm... maybe to set grid to 1, 1/2, 4th, 8th, maybe 3 for triplets...

ZAP jump forth and back between 2 values..?


....pfffff... ok, so these are just my ideas for now, and as I said: I have no clue if this is really doable or not.

Anybody else...?
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Old 04-30-2012, 03:11 PM   #14
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Hi,

I just want to say..SCARLTON FOR PRESIDENT..that is all^^. Man that guy can code huh? Thanks scarlton.

@strinxx..
u may know i dont have a houston, but I will be following this keenly.

Im in the middle of the hui-- mcu conversion..im stuck on some stupid math..shoulda paid attention in school..and trying to figure an elegant system for the switches that fits.

Because ..lol..my board is labeled with names for the switches for d8b..then i convert to "TRUE' hui..then convert to mcu whatever..sheesh!
So i see what ur doin^^ And I think u have solid ideas there. good luck my man!

Guido
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Old 05-01-2012, 12:38 AM   #15
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Well... let's see what scarlton says about it.... maybe he hates me now

My ideas are based on my kind of workflow, so this is for sure a bit "selfish"... but I was asked for input, right?

Something like Klinke's "action mode" would be cool, too.
He is really a nice guy, very helpful, maybe he allows us to "copy" his ideas?

@scarlton
I forgot something:
the fader sets, right next to the master fader.
I made some custom actions (there is a thread about it somewhere), to only show midi-/ audio-/ VSTi- whatsoever- tracks in the arrange-area.
So these buttons should be used for this too, I think (assignable).


Please don't hate me even more now...
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Old 05-01-2012, 11:39 AM   #16
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Thanks strinxx, this is exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by strinxx View Post
In general it's basic functions are doing great!

Every little while though, it seems to lose it's connection.... kind of...
Transport always works, but Faders stop working... wait a few secs and they are back again.
First question: are you using the Houston's USB connection, or midi?

Quote:
And hey scarlton, you did it in 32 and 64bit. Great!


So now to the longer part:
These are really just suggestions, about what I think would be cool or handy. I have no idea what's actually really doable, so please scarlton don't be mad with me ok

I try to divide the functions based on the layout.

On the very left we have some automation buttons, one SHIFT and one for the motors:
motors works as expected
read/ write - maybe it's possible to toggle through automation-modes (latch, touch...) by pressing the mode-button.
Stepping through the automation modes would be nice - I only implemented read and write because those are the labels on those buttons. There should be a way that makes sense to use those two and the mode button to set any automation mode.

Quote:
fader-section and encoders

is it possible to have a different pan-indication, like 1 dot in the middle for 50/50, then the ring "opens" to left/ right depending on the pan?
shift + pan maybe for width?

it "felt" like turning the encoders anticlockwise is very exact and fast, turning clockwise not so much and takes a few more turns to get to 100% right..

pressing "more" next to the scribble strip maybe for db-/ plugin- values and stuff? Could we get some timecode shown - is this doable?
First of all, the encoders are terrible. They're not continuous as you would expect, they output discrete values and stop outputting any value at all when they LED arc is fully lit or fully extinguished. The LEDs can't be set individually (that I'm aware).
You mention that you've used the Houston with Cubase - does Cubase ever change the way the LED arcs work? Like the way that you describe - with one LED lit at a time, and sweeping left or right with the pan value of the track?
Obviously that would be ideal for pan control, but I'm not sure that's possible with the Houston.
The plugin isn't interpreting all of the data sent for the encoders either, so precision can get better.


Quote:
above the encoders some more buttons (yippie!):

Global Send Masters > if possible set master-outputs 1,2,3...?
Send FX > add (new) Quick-FX/ add FX-chain 1,2,3..?
Master FX > add FXon slot 1,2, (with sws extensions)?
Instruments > open VSTi from track-template?

Faderset EQ 1-4 > REA-EQ band 1-4, maybe more values ?
User 1/2 > user defined
Routing > open I/O, add send/recieve/hardware-out 1,2,3..
by entering the corresponding number (id) with the number pad
Pan > show default display/values, like track-names..
FX send 1-8 > adjust send level 1-8, + shift adjust send's pan..?

Selected Chan EQ > + page up/dwn for REAeq, maybe other plugins mappable?
Aux > Sends level
Inserts > + 1,2,3 (number-pad) for inserting FX 1,2,3
(hope I make sense here...)
User 1/2/3 > definable
Routing > maybe open console to set input 1,2,3... (sws)
These buttons are what makes the Houston tricky. As I mentioned before, I think these should all be user-configurable, but with defaults that are (hopefully) intuitive. With that in mind, I don't think by default I want to assign any actions that aren't native to REAPER, in the event that the user doesn't have the SWS extension installed, for example.
Also, this functionality will probably wait until later, as I want to work on making the core functionality more robust.

Quote:
Transport-section and above

love the "arm" button - this never worked in Cubase, really nice to select some channels and arm them with 1 single click. Cool!

FF/Rwd don't work. Not that bad, we have a jog-wheel but would be handy to really go very fast through a project.
Maybe shift + FF/RWD set cycle in and out, or to go to in/out or begin/end of project?
I didn't implement forward/reverse yet, but shift + FF/RWD to jump to start/end should be there.

Quote:
Jog
Is it possible to have the wheel move by grid settings like half, 4th, 8th, 16th n' stuff. That'd be supercool for editing!
Or move In/Out points with the jog, by pressing shift + turn, according to grid.
I'll have to take a closer look at the jog/scrub API, but I implemented jogging the way it was done in the MCU plugin. I'm not even sure there's the capability to snap to the grid on jogging, but it's not a bad idea.

Quote:
Buttons above the transport

Song Save > as expected
Revert > go back to previous version (would this make sense..?)

Edit Undo > as expected
Redo > as exp.
Cancel/No/Yes > no idea.... this neither worked in Cubase

Windows Sets + 1,2,3 (number-pad) > load window-set 1,2,3
shift + 1,2,3 save win-sets 1,2,3
Main > open/close docker shows only arrange area
Edit > open/close editor (midi/inline maybe possible by context)
Studio > show mixer

Marker Jump + 1,2,3 > go to marker 1,2,3
Capture > add marker at current position
Delete + 1,2,3 > delete marker 1,2,3

Functions + 1,2,3 10s + 1,2,3, like 11,12,13 for assignable actions, maybe together with the encoders to move items, change certain values...?

Data to enter number-values, so you don't need to get back to comp-keyboard.

Cursor hmmmmmm... maybe to set grid to 1, 1/2, 4th, 8th, maybe 3 for triplets...

ZAP jump forth and back between 2 values..?
I was working on the number pad right before the version of the plugin that you're using, so I don't think any of it is working yet. I had originally implemented the number pad to just issue the keycodes for the respective number keys on a keyboard, which would jump to that numbered marker by default, and shift+[number] would set a marker.
I'm not sure what to do with the Function/Data/Cursor buttons and from reading the Houston manual, it seems as though the implementation was strange in Cubase as well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by strinxx View Post
Well... let's see what scarlton says about it.... maybe he hates me now

My ideas are based on my kind of workflow, so this is for sure a bit "selfish"... but I was asked for input, right?

Something like Klinke's "action mode" would be cool, too.
He is really a nice guy, very helpful, maybe he allows us to "copy" his ideas?

@scarlton
I forgot something:
the fader sets, right next to the master fader.
I made some custom actions (there is a thread about it somewhere), to only show midi-/ audio-/ VSTi- whatsoever- tracks in the arrange-area.
So these buttons should be used for this too, I think (assignable).


Please don't hate me even more now...
I don't have an MCU, but I do have an iPad and AC-7. Maybe I'll take a look at what klinke's doing with the MCU for ideas.
Can you find the thread with the custom actions you were talking about? I like the idea of showing/hiding "sets" of faders, maybe that's an idea to pursue.


I'll be out of town for the weekend, so between the band, work, and travel I probably won't be able to put any more work into this until next week. Stay tuned.
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Old 05-02-2012, 01:46 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scarlton View Post
Thanks strinxx, this is exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for.



First question: are you using the Houston's USB connection, or midi?
Midi, since Steinberg doesn't provide new 64bit drivers. Or is there a workaround I don't know of?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scarlton View Post
First of all, the encoders are terrible. They're not continuous as you would expect, they output discrete values and stop outputting any value at all when they LED arc is fully lit or fully extinguished. The LEDs can't be set individually (that I'm aware).
You mention that you've used the Houston with Cubase - does Cubase ever change the way the LED arcs work? Like the way that you describe - with one LED lit at a time, and sweeping left or right with the pan value of the track?
Obviously that would be ideal for pan control, but I'm not sure that's possible with the Houston.
The plugin isn't interpreting all of the data sent for the encoders either, so precision can get better.
As you can see in the attached jpeg it's possible in Cubase.
So hopefully in Reaper too!



Quote:
Originally Posted by scarlton View Post
These buttons are what makes the Houston tricky. As I mentioned before, I think these should all be user-configurable, but with defaults that are (hopefully) intuitive. With that in mind, I don't think by default I want to assign any actions that aren't native to REAPER, in the event that the user doesn't have the SWS extension installed, for example.
Also, this functionality will probably wait until later, as I want to work on making the core functionality more robust.
I see.
But since one is missing a lot of functionality without sws, I thought it wouldn't be a bad idea to ingrate the sws extension and bring Houston's functionality in Reaper as close as it can get, compared to Cubase.
It was unbeatable there, you had access to almost everything, complete I/O-Routing, Control-Room, Send-FX, Aux, even browsing through your FX-list.. really cool.


Quote:
Originally Posted by scarlton View Post
I didn't implement forward/reverse yet, but shift + FF/RWD to jump to start/end should be there.
Cool, I check this out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scarlton View Post
I'll have to take a closer look at the jog/scrub API, but I implemented jogging the way it was done in the MCU plugin. I'm not even sure there's the capability to snap to the grid on jogging, but it's not a bad idea.
Yessss!

Quote:
Originally Posted by scarlton View Post
I was working on the number pad right before the version of the plugin that you're using, so I don't think any of it is working yet. I had originally implemented the number pad to just issue the keycodes for the respective number keys on a keyboard, which would jump to that numbered marker by default, and shift+[number] would set a marker.
I'm not sure what to do with the Function/Data/Cursor buttons and from reading the Houston manual, it seems as though the implementation was strange in Cubase as well.
Yes it was never completely implemented.
And what I wrote before were only suggestions, based on what I was able to do with bome's miditranslator.
So if you want to keep it open for anyone, maybe it's a good idea to combine Function/Data/Cursor-buttons with the number-pad as number-keys.
This would give us lots of assignable buttons, which would be handy, too.
Lately I was looking for a box with just a lot of knobs, to trigger some more actions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scarlton View Post
I don't have an MCU, but I do have an iPad and AC-7. Maybe I'll take a look at what klinke's doing with the MCU for ideas.
Can you find the thread with the custom actions you were talking about? I like the idea of showing/hiding "sets" of faders, maybe that's an idea to pursue.
It's a wiki, there you go:
http://wiki.cockos.com/wiki/index.ph...on_the_Toolbar
But.... sws too!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Houston encoders.jpg (44.3 KB, 575 views)
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Old 05-02-2012, 01:32 PM   #18
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One thing is bugging me a bit:

whenever you select 1 or several tracks on the Houston, the mixer doesn't follow.
If your project exists of more than 24 tracks (so often more than 70 tracks here), it gets really painful to find your selected tracks in the mixer.

So whenever I choose a different track, it's just added to the previous selection.

Maybe it would be better to select only one track at a time, and if I wanted to choose several tracks to be selected, I would need to SHIFT + select those channels.


Klinke added "controller follows track selection" in his csurf dialog.
Maybe thats what we would need too...?
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Old 05-03-2012, 07:38 AM   #19
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Hi,

I have a doc from mackie that shows how the d8b/hui maps to various programs like PT, nuendo ,Cuabase ,Logic..etc..I know it not houston..but i thought ..what the heck ..y'all might find some info useful.here...

http://www.sonido-7.com/d8b/files/us...uilayermap.pdf..

the button #s refer to chart at end. hope ya find it useful. Good luck u guys!

Guido
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Old 05-04-2012, 04:56 AM   #20
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Thanks Guido!

This is something scarlton has to look at, 'cause I have no idea how to deal with that kind of stuff.. unfortunately. But I do hope this gives him some insight, too.

@scarlton
I just checked how the number-pad is implemented in cubase:

CURSOR + 2,8 and 4,6 are similar to the arrow-keys on a keyboard, used for moving around items (parts) and markers. Maybe even more.
This is something we definitely should have, cause we don't have arrows on the Houston. (maybe combine them with SHIFT to "nudge"?)

DATA does nothing... though I used to use it to enter numbers when needed, via Midi-translator..

FUNCTIONS + 2,8 or 4,6 are for zooming vertical and horizontal,
+ 1 cut, + 3 paste, the rest maybe assignable?

10'S + 7 followed by 6 gives you "76" for exmaple, handy in combination with "Markers" > "Jump", you can easily jump to marker 76 within a project, not limited to only jump to markers 1-10. Cool.

Finally "ZAP" let's you jump forth and back betweeen 2 situations, be it marker-positions or even zoom-settings....

Some cool stuff in here, what you think?
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Old 05-07-2012, 09:30 AM   #21
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Hey guys, this is great stuff. I haven't had a chance to look through it all yet, but I should have some time to work on this again this week.

@strinxx
In the meantime since you have Cubase, can you do me a favor and log some midi? I'd like to know how Cubase tells the Houston to change the operating mode of the encoders. Can you send me a log of just switching to pan mode and turning a couple of the pan knobs?
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Old 05-07-2012, 01:33 PM   #22
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I'll gladly help you scarlton!

But I fear I need some information how to do this exactly.
I mean, I know midi-ox and midi-yoke - it's been a while though, since I last worked with it - but I never used it to actually "log" anything... just watched in- and outgoing midi-data.

So, I assume I would have to go through any of Houston's available modes.
For instance EQ, Pan, User1-3, Send, Aux, Routing...whatever...
and then log Cubase's answer after every button-push.
Afterwards I turn 1 of the (or every?) encoders, and now log Houston's outgoing midi.

Do I get this right?

Sorry for some stupid questions.... guitarist here...
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Old 05-07-2012, 04:01 PM   #23
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I'll gladly help you scarlton!

But I fear I need some information how to do this exactly.
I mean, I know midi-ox and midi-yoke - it's been a while though, since I last worked with it - but I never used it to actually "log" anything... just watched in- and outgoing midi-data.

So, I assume I would have to go through any of Houston's available modes.
For instance EQ, Pan, User1-3, Send, Aux, Routing...whatever...
and then log Cubase's answer after every button-push.
Afterwards I turn 1 of the (or every?) encoders, and now log Houston's outgoing midi.

Do I get this right?

Sorry for some stupid questions.... guitarist here...
Hi,

HAving just done all this , i am eisnstein! Just kiddin. Just a guitarist? I thought those jokes were just for drummers.^^

Setup midi ox and the csurf from REaper like this..Csurf out ..into midyoke 1..In midiox have a output port to the houston and a midyoke 1 in put port. Drag a cable from MY 1 input to Houston out.

Depending on what the Cubase implemaentation sends in response to user input..but do a look and see when and what type data goes by.
There must be a mode of operation onthe houston that turns the vpots into pan. in midox right click in the input monitor window to start ..stop..and clear the display.
I would think that any sys ex is display related..so u can filter that.
On the houston go to a mode other than pan mode..and then in midiox start display and then activate pan mode on the houston.U should see something in midiox.. then stop display.

Now right click in the input monitor window and either choose copy all, mark for clipboard, or mark window.and paste in notepad.

In note pad i then give the data a representative title like Houston from xxxmode to pan mode..10 tracks used., or something like that.

Hope this helps and good luck.

Guido
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Old 05-07-2012, 04:09 PM   #24
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... or just record the entire thing as a MIDI file.
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Old 05-07-2012, 04:31 PM   #25
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... or just record the entire thing as a MIDI file.
Hiya banned. That would be tuff to know later what s what..no?

And thx for the kind words on "its alive". Thank you

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Old 05-07-2012, 04:42 PM   #26
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Hiya banned. That would be tuff to know later what s what..no?

And thx for the kind words on "its alive". Thank you

Guido
Well, it's all MIDI, isn't it? You can just play it again thru a MIDI monitor and watch it, or open it in a MIDI editor. If you put it in a text file you can't easily play it back anymore, and whatever formatting you'd use wouldn't really be part of the MIDI data, so may also be confusing.

But I'd conform to whatever format scarlton prefers in any case.

And you're very welcome, great to hear your success story.
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:06 PM   #27
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@strinxx
Pretty much follow what Guido said as far as getting set up for midi-ox to capture the data. I would prefer if you could just capture pressing the "Pan" mode button and turning a couple of the knobs - it would save me from having to sift through a large amount of unrelated data.

So load up a project in Cubase, clear the midi input monitor in midi-ox, then press the pan button on the Houston and use the knobs to set the pan 100% left, then 100% right for channels 1 and 2. That should be enough for my purposes. Then copy the text from midi-ox and paste it into notepad.

Thanks strinxx, this is really helpful.
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Old 05-09-2012, 10:06 AM   #28
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So... this took me a while to get everything running... midiyoke just didn't show up in my DAW's midi-setup , neither Cubase or Reaper... don't know.
LoopBe did it finally!

So attached is a zip, containing all the information - hopefully - that I thought would be useful.
"PAN FS" is for PAN - FaderSet
"PAN SEL" for PAN - selected Channel and so on...

I hope nothing is missing. If so, please let me know! (

@Guido
Congrats for your work man!
I tried this kind of stuff with the Houston back then.... and got completely lost on the encoders and the jog...pffff. No chance.
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Old 05-09-2012, 12:43 PM   #29
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@strinxx
I hate to be a pain, but I'm going to need to see the sysex data. I'm betting that the the operating mode of the encoders is set via sysex.

You sent over a lot of files - I'd hate for you to have to do all that work over again. If it's easier, you can just post a log of selecting the pan mode and turning the encoders.

Thanks again.
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Old 05-09-2012, 02:00 PM   #30
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@strinxx
I hate to be a pain, but I'm going to need to see the sysex data. I'm betting that the the operating mode of the encoders is set via sysex.

You sent over a lot of files - I'd hate for you to have to do all that work over again. If it's easier, you can just post a log of selecting the pan mode and turning the encoders.

Thanks again.
Hi,

I could be way off base here..but I think that that kinda stuff is done in response by the csurf from a certain user input.ie hitting button xx puts vpots in plug in mode. Sorry but I just would find it odd they would use sys ex for that. And Ive just been up two protocol's butts latley. But ..I could be wrong. Both protocols im doin are from mackie.

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Old 05-09-2012, 02:11 PM   #31
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Hi,

I could be way off base here..but I think that that kinda stuff is done in response by the csurf from a certain user input.ie hitting button xx puts vpots in plug in mode. Sorry but I just would find it odd they would use sys ex for that. And Ive just been up two protocol's butts latley. But ..I could be wrong. Both protocols im doin are from mackie.

Guido
I think it actually makes a lot of sense to use SysEx for that, as it seems to be a setting that is very specific to the machine. As such, it is probably a message exclusive to that system, hence, a proper "SysEx" (what does hitting button xx even mean when you don't have that specific machine?).
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Old 05-09-2012, 02:22 PM   #32
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You're not a pain!

It's just that I have so little knowledge 'bout what I need to do here... well I do have a little, so I hope this is the right information now..?
Once I know what to do, I can provide you with as many pushes and turns of every little thingy you want - no pain at all!
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Old 05-10-2012, 07:06 AM   #33
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Sorry, those files don't have the sysex data either. Make sure in the "Filter" dialog in midi-ox you have "Display SysEx messages in Monitors" box checked, and repeat the process you used for the initial set of files.
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:06 AM   #34
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I think it actually makes a lot of sense to use SysEx for that, as it seems to be a setting that is very specific to the machine. As such, it is probably a message exclusive to that system, hence, a proper "SysEx" (what does hitting button xx even mean when you don't have that specific machine?).
Nope^^ because a educated guess my brother^^ but i could be wrong.

i know what ur sayin..but trust me Luke...

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Old 05-10-2012, 11:03 AM   #35
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Sorry, those files don't have the sysex data either. Make sure in the "Filter" dialog in midi-ox you have "Display SysEx messages in Monitors" box checked, and repeat the process you used for the initial set of files.
Aaahhh grrrrrr....
Me too sorry!!!

I'll try it again later this evening.
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Old 05-10-2012, 03:13 PM   #36
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So that looks a bit different now.... much more information in each file.
I do hope that's the right one... (I have no idea what Sysex actually looks like)

Like the last time: "Pan" pushed, followed by turning encoders 1 and 2 hard left, then hard right.
For Selected Channel and FaderSet.

Let me know if something's wrong with that, or if you need just some more pushes and turns.

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Old 05-10-2012, 04:23 PM   #37
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So that looks a bit different now.... much more information in each file.
I do hope that's the right one... (I have no idea what Sysex actually looks like)

Like the last time: "Pan" pushed, followed by turning encoders 1 and 2 hard left, then hard right.
For Selected Channel and FaderSet.

Let me know if something's wrong with that, or if you need just some more pushes and turns.

Anything staring with F0 {hex} and ending in F7 ...^^
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Old 05-11-2012, 12:17 AM   #38
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Well, then this might be right this time, thanxx Guido!

Scarlton?
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Old 05-11-2012, 07:26 AM   #39
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Perfect, as I suspected there is sysex to set the operating mode of the encoders. I had a half hour or so last night to do some poking around using the log you sent, and discovered at least 6 separate operating modes. There are still some bytes whose purpose I haven't sorted yet.

This is a sample from the log file:
F0 39 48 05 01 04 58 04 50 0F 46 F7

And this is the format of the message:
F0 39 48 05 nn mm ww xx yy zz cc F7

F0 Sysex start byte
39 Manufacturer ID
48 Device ID
05 Model ID
nn Channel number
mm Mode
ww Number of steps (?)
xx ??
yy ??
zz ??
cc Checksum
F7 Sysex end byte


Modes:
00 off
01 default - "volume" mode
02 "width" mode
03 dot mode with two dots (?)
04 "pan" mode
05 reverse "volume" mode
06 dot mode


Checksum:
([sum all payload bytes] % 128) + 6
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Old 05-11-2012, 10:54 AM   #40
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I humbly bow and swear to keep my mouth shut...mmmmgggmmm..great work scarlton..sorry for the noise.

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