some Questions about Jack

[reapercurious]

Jack2 or Jack1? (and what's Jack1 for?)

how/where do you set the latency? seems to set itself automatically?

is there a way to use Jack without using QJackctl and manually starting and stopping it?

lastly, if I stop the Jack server while Reaper is playing, and open the audio properties to change audio systems, Reaper freezes to the point where 'killall reaper' needs to be executed.

had to move to Jack because the timing of midi vsti's under ALSA started going haywire, no idea why, and Jack seems to work.

[audiojunkie]

Originally Posted by reapercurious

Jack2 or Jack1? (and what's Jack1 for?)

how/where do you set the latency? seems to set itself automatically?

is there a way to use Jack without using QJackctl and manually starting and stopping it?

lastly, if I stop the Jack server while Reaper is playing, and open the audio properties to change audio systems, Reaper freezes to the point where 'killall reaper' needs to be executed.

had to move to Jack because the timing of midi vsti's under ALSA started going haywire, no idea why, and Jack seems to work.

Don't bother with either. Both have been depreciated in favor of Pipewire.

That said, Jack1 is the old version. Jack2 is the new version. Jack1 had some features that Jack2 didn't have (and vice versa), so they are still both around, but Jack2 is the best one to use if you are going to use jack. Personally, I see no need for Jack at all anymore since pipewire provides pipewire-jack, pipewire-alsa, and pipewire-pulse. Just load whatever type of app you want to use (pulseaudio, alsa, jack) and pipewire simply runs it. If you want to run qjackctl on top of pipewire, that should be fine as well.

The latency is usually set in the application you are using: Reaper, Ardour, qjackctl, etc. However, I believe there are command line parameters to run it that way as well.

Look into a2jmidid as a possible solution for your midi problem.

Read this (including the hyperlinked parts) for a lot more detail on JACK:

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/JAC...Connection_Kit

[reapercurious]

very helpful, thanks. I never had lag problems with midi vst stuff before, could be something with yabridge.

gonna get rid of jack2 because it doesn't play nice with Reaper.

[fabio77]

Originally Posted by audiojunkie

Don't bother with either. Both have been depreciated in favor of Pipewire.

That said, Jack1 is the old version. Jack2 is the new version. Jack1 had some features that Jack2 didn't have (and vice versa), so they are still both around, but Jack2 is the best one to use if you are going to use jack. Personally, I see no need for Jack at all anymore since pipewire provides pipewire-jack, pipewire-alsa, and pipewire-pulse. Just load whatever type of app you want to use (pulseaudio, alsa, jack) and pipewire simply runs it. If you want to run qjackctl on top of pipewire, that should be fine as well.

The latency is usually set in the application you are using: Reaper, Ardour, qjackctl, etc. However, I believe there are command line parameters to run it that way as well.

Look into a2jmidid as a possible solution for your midi problem.

Read this (including the hyperlinked parts) for a lot more detail on JACK:

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/JAC...Connection_Kit

If I may ask a question on this. Does this mean, I don't have to install jack? Since now I started jack through cadence and configured the audio and MIDI connections through catia. How are these established with pipewire? Automatically?

[fabio77]

If I understand correctly, there still could occur some problems?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxEXMHcwtlI (minute 13:13)

[audiojunkie]

Originally Posted by fabio77

If I may ask a question on this. Does this mean, I don't have to install jack? Since now I started jack through cadence and configured the audio and MIDI connections through catia. How are these established with pipewire? Automatically?

As I understand it, you are correct. You don't have to install JACK. You can still use cadence and catia and any of the other jack tools.

The way it works is this: Pipewire runs on top of ALSA and sits in front of everythinng, whether that be an ALSA app, a PulseAudio app, or a JACK app. With Pipewire installed and configured correctly, you simply start your app, select the audio source (ALSA, PulseAudio, or JACK) and it runs as if you are using ALSA directly, the PulseAudio Server directly, or the JACK Server directly. You set your latency/buffer settings inside the app, and Pipewire obeys. It essentially works just like windows apps do when you choose ASIO, WASAPI, DirectSound, etc.

On the back end, there are three "dummy" interfaces that allow ALSA, PulseAudio, and JACK apps to talk directly to pipewire with no fuss. These "dummy" interfaces are called:

pipewire-alsa
pipewire-pulseaudio
pipewire-jack

So, as long as you have pipewire installed, along with these helper components, pipewire works great.....at least that's been my experiences with Fedora which has had pipewire by default since v.34. YMMV.

[audiojunkie]

Originally Posted by fabio77

If I understand correctly, there still could occur some problems?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxEXMHcwtlI (minute 13:13)

...but that video is over a year old. Lots and lots of improvements have been made since that video was released.

[fabio77]

Originally Posted by audiojunkie

As I understand it, you are correct. You don't have to install JACK. You can still use cadence and catia and any of the other jack tools.

The way it works is this: Pipewire runs on top of ALSA and sits in front of everythinng, whether that be an ALSA app, a PulseAudio app, or a JACK app. With Pipewire installed and configured correctly, you simply start your app, select the audio source (ALSA, PulseAudio, or JACK) and it runs as if you are using ALSA directly, the PulseAudio Server directly, or the JACK Server directly. You set your latency/buffer settings inside the app, and Pipewire obeys. It essentially works just like windows apps do when you choose ASIO, WASAPI, DirectSound, etc.

On the back end, there are three "dummy" interfaces that allow ALSA, PulseAudio, and JACK apps to talk directly to pipewire with no fuss. These "dummy" interfaces are called:

pipewire-alsa
pipewire-pulseaudio
pipewire-jack

So, as long as you have pipewire installed, along with these helper components, pipewire works great.....at least that's been my experiences with Fedora which has had pipewire by default since v.34. YMMV.

Hm, ok. Sounds good.

I just have installed manjaro linux yesterday. And pipewire is installed by default, as I see. Today I wanted to set the audio system up.

You said I "could" install cadence and catia. But do I have to, to get a MIDI connection and the low latency I had on jack and alsa?
And if I install them, I think they will not come without jack (sounds funny) or do they. I have to try later.

I mean, this sounds to good to be true I have to test it later myself, before installing cadence and catia.

[audiojunkie]

Originally Posted by fabio77

Hm, ok. Sounds good.

I just have installed manjaro linux yesterday. And pipewire is installed by default, as I see. Today I wanted to set the audio system up.

You said I "could" install cadence and catia. But do I have to, to get a MIDI connection and the low latency I had on jack and alsa?
And if I install them, I think they will not come without jack (sounds funny) or do they. I have to try later.

I mean, this sounds to good to be true I have to test it later myself, before installing cadence and catia.

Install Reaper. Set the audio device as JACK. Test things with just that and let us know the results. Just because I’ve had a good experience is no guarantee that the experience will be the same for everyone. That said, I am anxiously awaiting to hear your experiences.

[fabio77]

Originally Posted by audiojunkie

Install Reaper. Set the audio device as JACK. Test things with just that and let us know the results. Just because I’ve had a good experience is no guarantee that the experience will be the same for everyone. That said, I am anxiously awaiting to hear your experiences.

Ok, with Reaper set to jack I got nothing. The MIDI input is not recognized and reaper don't even plays audio.
But there could be something else wrong, because I don't get reaper to do anything with MIDI, also after installing cadence.

Maybe I do a test again tomorrow.

[fabio77]

Ok, I reinstalled Manjaro. I anyway wanted to do that. I had Manjaro KDE installed, because it has really nice features and made really fancy, but all these comforts at the end become more complicated and on my second monitor all was kind of blurred.

Now, with the fresh install of manjaro (XFCE this time) and reaper, I tested again. When I set reaper to jack. Nothing. Can't get MIDI-inputs on, no audio. On pulseaudio, the latency is not as good as I need it to be. But what surprised me, when I set reaper to alsa, I have MIDI and audio. And the latency is not noticable.

So, for now I don't install any cadence or jack related software, because I hope it will be fine as it is. Without jack-configuration, everytime I record something, would be great.

But still I don't understand why this pipewire-thing does not function when I set reaper on jack.

But thank you for this info. I will hopefully learn more about it - without messing up my system

[audiojunkie]

Originally Posted by fabio77

Ok, I reinstalled Manjaro. I anyway wanted to do that. I had Manjaro KDE installed, because it has really nice features and made really fancy, but all these comforts at the end become more complicated and on my second monitor all was kind of blurred.

Now, with the fresh install of manjaro (XFCE this time) and reaper, I tested again. When I set reaper to jack. Nothing. Can't get MIDI-inputs on, no audio. On pulseaudio, the latency is not as good as I need it to be. But what surprised me, when I set reaper to alsa, I have MIDI and audio. And the latency is not noticable.

So, for now I don't install any cadence or jack related software, because I hope it will be fine as it is. Without jack-configuration, everytime I record something, would be great.

But still I don't understand why this pipewire-thing does not function when I set reaper on jack.

But thank you for this info. I will hopefully learn more about it - without messing up my system

I don’t use Manjaro, so I am not familiar with what they have configured for their pipewire. Maybe they require some configuration that isn’t required by my distro. I’m happy that ALSA is working nicely for you though!

[fabio77]

Originally Posted by audiojunkie

I don’t use Manjaro, so I am not familiar with what they have configured for their pipewire. Maybe they require some configuration that isn’t required by my distro. I’m happy that ALSA is working nicely for you though!

Originally Posted by audiojunkie

I don’t use Manjaro, so I am not familiar with what they have configured for their pipewire. Maybe they require some configuration that isn’t required by my distro. I’m happy that ALSA is working nicely for you though!

Yes, I followed the steps written at the pipewire site of the arch wiki, that is linked at the jack article you posted. https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/PipeWire#Configuration

I have installed pipewire-alsa, pipewire-jack and pipewire-pulse. Now all works fine. This is really great no special configuration needed, and all is working simultaniously. I can run reaper on jack, record MIDI with almost no noticable latency and at the same time audacious could play on pulse. Really great.

[audiojunkie]

I am so happy to hear that it is working for you now. It does indeed appear that Manjaro requires the extra step of adding pipewire-alsa, pipewire-pulse, and pipewire-jack.

It’s nice that someone else is able to see and describe how nice pipewire appears to be. I’ve been wondering if I was just lucky with how nicely everything worked for me—it gives me more confidence that my experience is not just a lucky fluke.

[fabio77]

Originally Posted by audiojunkie

I am so happy to hear that it is working for you now. It does indeed appear that Manjaro requires the extra step of adding pipewire-alsa, pipewire-pulse, and pipewire-jack.

It’s nice that someone else is able to see and describe how nice pipewire appears to be. I’ve been wondering if I was just lucky with how nicely everything worked for me—it gives me more confidence that my experience is not just a lucky fluke.

It is really great. And it was easy to install. Here on manjaro I only added the three mentioned packages (pipewire-jack, pipewire-alsa, pipewire-pulse) and pamac added someother packages (I think pipewire-zeroconf pipewire-manjaro, could be more) and then I had to do nothing in addition.

Again, thank you for this tip.

EDIT: I tried to set up a manjaro with KDE, and I could not install the mentioned packages because of pulseaudion. But when I simply installed manjaro-pipewire all others were installed and pulseaudio deletet.

[777funk]

Originally Posted by fabio77

Ok, with Reaper set to jack I got nothing. The MIDI input is not recognized and reaper don't even plays audio.
But there could be something else wrong, because I don't get reaper to do anything with MIDI, also after installing cadence.

Maybe I do a test again tomorrow.

Maybe here's why on MIDI:
https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?t=24568

[fabio77]

Originally Posted by 777funk

Maybe here's why on MIDI:
https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?t=24568

Thank you for the reply. To be honest, I don't remember the exact problem I had. This was when I first tested with pipewire. Now I can use reaper on jack or alsa, both works.