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Old 12-11-2021, 10:19 PM   #1
Primeval Mudd
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Default Is there a way to stop MIDI inputs shuffling themselves around?

Hi,

Briefly

My Reaper MIDI inputs have a habit of reordering themselves when I'm not looking.

I was told in another thread that the problem lies with Linux rather than Reaper.

Is there a way to stop them doing it?

Less Briefly

This image shows connections in Claudia and Reaper.



I set up Claudia's Reaper MIDI inputs to mirror those that were imposed on me by Reaper:
  • ID 0: Through
  • ID 1: UMC404HD (I don't use the MIDI on the UMC404HD but don't know how to remove it from Reaper's list)
  • ID 3: Oxygen 25
  • ID 4: V61 MIDI 1 (the one I use for input to Reaper)
  • ID 5: V61 MIDI 2 (I don't use this with Reaper - it's mainly for sending set-up info to the V61)
  • ID 6: LPD8
  • ID 7: Samsung Android/TouchDAW

As you can see from the image, Claudia and Reaper no longer match.

My main problem with all of this is that it affects track inputs.

Earlier this evening I started a new project based on one of my templates:



As you can see, three of the first four tracks are for inputs from MIDI devices; the other is their folder.

Reaper and/or Linux had chosen to remap the inputs:
  • V61 - mapped to V61 MIDI 2 instead of V61 MIDI 1
  • O25 - mapped to V61 MIDI 1 instead of Oxygen 25
  • LPD8 - mapped to Samsung Android (TouchDAW) instead of LPD8

The option to use the Oxygen 25 input for the Oxygen 25 track has gone altogether, despite being listed in the MIDI Preferences!



ARGH!

Having to fix this time and time again is driving me up the wall. It's very time consuming and a distraction from actually making music!

An hour or so back I had a groove in my head which I was going to try to approximate in Reaper, hence opening the new Project from the template.

Instead of that I've spent the time writing this 'ere post with illustrative screenshots and am now going to spend more time sorting everything out so I can actually make a bit of music.

Needless to say, the groove which was in my head is long gone.

Hmph and, indeed, grrr.
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Last edited by Primeval Mudd; 12-11-2021 at 10:37 PM.
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Old 12-12-2021, 07:28 AM   #2
audiojunkie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socket View Post
Hi,

Briefly

My Reaper MIDI inputs have a habit of reordering themselves when I'm not looking.

I was told in another thread that the problem lies with Linux rather than Reaper.

Is there a way to stop them doing it?

Less Briefly

This image shows connections in Claudia and Reaper.



I set up Claudia's Reaper MIDI inputs to mirror those that were imposed on me by Reaper:
  • ID 0: Through
  • ID 1: UMC404HD (I don't use the MIDI on the UMC404HD but don't know how to remove it from Reaper's list)
  • ID 3: Oxygen 25
  • ID 4: V61 MIDI 1 (the one I use for input to Reaper)
  • ID 5: V61 MIDI 2 (I don't use this with Reaper - it's mainly for sending set-up info to the V61)
  • ID 6: LPD8
  • ID 7: Samsung Android/TouchDAW

As you can see from the image, Claudia and Reaper no longer match.

My main problem with all of this is that it affects track inputs.

Earlier this evening I started a new project based on one of my templates:



As you can see, three of the first four tracks are for inputs from MIDI devices; the other is their folder.

Reaper and/or Linux had chosen to remap the inputs:
  • V61 - mapped to V61 MIDI 2 instead of V61 MIDI 1
  • O25 - mapped to V61 MIDI 1 instead of Oxygen 25
  • LPD8 - mapped to Samsung Android (TouchDAW) instead of LPD8

The option to use the Oxygen 25 input for the Oxygen 25 track has gone altogether, despite being listed in the MIDI Preferences!



ARGH!

Having to fix this time and time again is driving me up the wall. It's very time consuming and a distraction from actually making music!

An hour or so back I had a groove in my head which I was going to try to approximate in Reaper, hence opening the new Project from the template.

Instead of that I've spent the time writing this 'ere post with illustrative screenshots and am now going to spend more time sorting everything out so I can actually make a bit of music.

Needless to say, the groove which was in my head is long gone.

Hmph and, indeed, grrr.
I suspect it may have something to to with the naming conventions in your alsa config file. Check out this document (especially the alsa section):

http://tedfelix.com/linux/linux-midi.html

Here’s another useful clue:

https://jackaudio.org/faq/persistent_connections.html

It doesn’t look like jack (alone) has the ability, but I could have sworn that I read a solution somewhere. I’ll keep searching.

Edit: I personally don’t use jack, and I don’t know if what I remember is relevant anymore, but I vaguely remember that you need to determine the true hardware device names and make and run a script that assigns the names properly, prior to running everything else. You have to do it every time, so you have to add the script you made as part of your app startup. It’s been so long, and I only remember bits and pieces of the dialog, and I can’t find it anymore.

Last edited by audiojunkie; 12-12-2021 at 08:54 AM.
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Old 12-12-2021, 11:54 AM   #3
TonE
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I am using Catia. It seems with all the clock outs, all enabled midi ports in Reaper, this looks to me not efficient enough. I would minimize those ports, if not really required there, instead doing the routing in Catia/Claudia.

For example typically I am using a few Through ports. If you have 8 Through ports for example, you can keep them clean and separate, without possible midi feedback troubles, also for more complex situations.

My hardware midi controllers, I send to the Through port which goes into Reaper. I can easily change it, in Catia, depending on the situation, like if I am using another additional external midi sequencer (Sequetron by Phil Tipping) or not. Or this could be another midi hardware. Anything external to Reaper.

For control enabled, I am using only this midi port.

Also I would not send so many midi clock out ports. I am using Anton Savov's midi clock vst which works perfectly, also when Reaper is stopped, it is sending its clock. And because it is a vst, delay is compensated, fitting to each project.

Those would be my first tips, seeing your images, did not read your post. Maybe useful also for future readers in 5 years.
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Old 12-14-2021, 04:37 PM   #4
PMan
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I would try, just as a test, turning Claudia OFF. Get that completely out of the picture, and see if your MIDI I/O stabilizes.

You can setup *all* of your MIDI routing in Reaper.

I used to use Jack, because I thought I needed it. Turns out I don't, and it's now much easier to, for example, change sample rates. I rarely have to do that, but if I open a project with a different rate, I don't have to change settings in Jack or QJackCtl.

Simpler is stabler...
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Old 12-15-2021, 01:41 AM   #5
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There are some potential solutions in this thread - https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?t=17172

This looks like the easiest:

a2jmidid -ue
-e causes it to bridge your hardware MIDI devices; -u causes it to remove the ALSA port numbering, thus the resulting JACK ports will not have the ALSA numbering and thus look the same after every reboot.
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Old 12-27-2021, 10:57 AM   #6
Primeval Mudd
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Hi folks,

Thanks for your replies and suggestions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PMan View Post
I would try, just as a test, turning Claudia OFF. Get that completely out of the picture, and see if your MIDI I/O stabilizes.

You can setup *all* of your MIDI routing in Reaper.
I'd love to ditch JACK! I gave this a go. Everything worked OK apart from TouchDAW on my Android tablet - Reaper can't open its inputs and outputs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shosty View Post
There are some potential solutions in this thread - https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?t=17172

This looks like the easiest:

a2jmidid -ue
-e causes it to bridge your hardware MIDI devices; -u causes it to remove the ALSA port numbering, thus the resulting JACK ports will not have the ALSA numbering and thus look the same after every reboot.
I've not tried that yet but will have a go in a bit.
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Old 12-27-2021, 11:14 AM   #7
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I had previously posted about how to make this work with Jack. Don't know if it also works with ALSA but here's that post in case it will be useful to anyone.
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