|
|
|
03-01-2007, 07:56 AM
|
#1
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,572
|
Fanboism/kvr/blablabla
ok....dont post at kvr so i need to post this here
first off, anyone who judges a product at all by its users is immediately a moron. I dont care if the entire KKK decided to all buy a copy of REAPER each -- it has absolutely no bearing on the program to me. Anyone who decides otherwise is not unlike a bickering little child.
however, when will some people here learn how to deal with kvr? Its obvious there is a degree of prejudice there, i wont name any names, but there is. However, its not made any better by harsh or out of place comments by REAPER users.
One of the features of a program IS to an extent it's userbase, take this place for example. It is a GREAT support forum, where Justin many times doesnt even have a CHANCE to answer support queries because so many here are willing to take the time to help others. Again if people judge an entire fanbase by a few peoples out of place or fanatic comments (hey im a fanatic too ) then they are again, no better/smarter than a child, obviously of limited intellect. So perhaps we can let those things be known, try to direct people to this forum, instead of trying to discuss athiesm to a bunch of baptists (please its just an example no offense to any baptists). I think instead we should spread the love and goodness we have here on this forum...
That being said, kvr is really a small small place, and thankfully, kvr's opinion doesnt shape that much. If it did, all synths would be under 100 dollars, and energy xt would run our toasters. or something... hmmm come to think of it how is the former a BAD thing. o well
anyway, thats my opinion and im certainly sticking to it.
Last edited by Jae.Thomas; 03-01-2007 at 07:59 AM.
|
|
|
03-01-2007, 08:12 AM
|
#2
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 81
|
yeah man... i'd say there seems to be a degree of hostility rather than simply prejudice over there! hahaha seems mostly to be from just a couple jerks in particular. i'm not much a poster over there (nor any forum for that matter) but if a new reaper feature gets me so fired up I cant stand to keep the fingers from typing out the joy... it's certainly not gonna be at kvr! lol
btw- reaeq was one of those features - sorry to get off topic.. but what a great addition! :-D
|
|
|
03-01-2007, 08:22 AM
|
#3
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sydney Oz
Posts: 8,480
|
Sorry Jas, I just wanted to let interested people know what improvements have been made in Reaper, as in reaEQ, but another thread war spilled over into mine and basically f**ked it.
Some of them are openly hostile...I don't know what happened in the past, but there's some real tools there who hate all things Reaper...one guys signature says just that, Enemy of the Reaper and especially his fanboys.
Whatever, I can see how you got banned, but it's much nicer here anyway.
|
|
|
03-01-2007, 08:24 AM
|
#4
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,572
|
"you can see how i got banned"????
what's that supposed to mean heheh
anyway im not banned, if you look me up. ( http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/profil...rofile&u=87372 or http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/search...+Brian+Merrill) Its just that i password locked my account so i would never be tempted to post there again hehe...
i just go there to follow the news about new plugins, dont really bother too much with anything....
Last edited by Jae.Thomas; 03-01-2007 at 08:27 AM.
|
|
|
03-01-2007, 11:41 AM
|
#5
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,293
|
It's all a bit silly really. I did try and introduce a voice of reason ...
|
|
|
03-01-2007, 11:47 AM
|
#6
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,572
|
well, cool
but its hard reasoning with any side of a fanatical debate. (and i mean both sides can certainly be fanatical in this one)
|
|
|
03-01-2007, 12:07 PM
|
#7
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,152
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill
instead of trying to discuss athiesm to a bunch of baptists (please its just an example no offense to any baptists).
|
or atheists?
--
__________________
Midi is not audio, it just sounds like it.
|
|
|
03-01-2007, 12:09 PM
|
#8
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 2,185
|
I didn't see why there was any problem with talking about Reaper's features in the Host section. That's what it's there for, no?
However, if people make a new thread or two every time some new features get introduced to Reaper, there's going to end up being a whole lot of Reapeer threads over there!
And that will probably make people either 1) jealous that we get such speedy and frequent features/improvements, or 2) think that Reaper must still need a lot of work, and obviously isn't ready for prime-time yet.
just a thought...
|
|
|
03-01-2007, 12:48 PM
|
#9
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,572
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by RokkD
or atheists?
--
|
i dont think you read/understood what i said.
in my analogy, the "baptists" were the unthinking ones (gross generalization), and the "atheists" the logical ones (another generalization but in this case a complimentary one). So therefore there would be no reason to say "no offense" to atheists in this situation, and i will not.
After all, its just a bloody analogy.
and yes, im religious.
|
|
|
03-01-2007, 12:53 PM
|
#10
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Auckland NZ
Posts: 938
|
Bah - I'm not a fanboy..... I'm a Reaper fanMAN!!!! (and proud of it)
Having made that bold comment I have to admit that I would only say that here
Cheers
Jed
|
|
|
03-01-2007, 01:00 PM
|
#11
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 199
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill
first off, anyone who judges a product at all by its users is immediately a moron.
|
Sometimes.... Maybe.... But....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill
One of the features of a program IS to an extent it's userbase, take this place for example.
|
Right, that's more like it. For much software, support exists primarily within the community that builds up around it. If a product's users are, in general, prone to attitude problems it can really limit the value of the package.
Sometimes the users are an excellent reflection of the product and the company/source that produces it, whether generous or secretive, friendly or antagonistic, open or defensive....
|
|
|
03-01-2007, 01:04 PM
|
#12
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Basel, Switzerland
Posts: 4,715
|
I think they are very unfair right now but they've got a reason for it which is mainly in the past - what's mainly annoying is that many of you Reaper fans seem to disregard other great stuff - and I think that's the point which creates all the hostility. See, I'm here, looking at Reaper, watching its development, recommending it to other people - and all this although I think eXT is the best host out there ever...
With version 2 eXT will get a multi-fx unit and it runs as a vst-plugin which means you will be able to use all of its fx in any host.
If eXT's fans would behave like many Reaper-fans my prediction would be that as soon as the multi-fx unit is integrated in XT2 no single effect-thread @ kvr was save from us. We would jump all over the place and telling everybody that XT2 is all they ever need fx-wise (host-wise either way).
But I can't see me stopping to recommend Reacomp because I think it's great.
There you have it.
Last edited by jens; 03-01-2007 at 01:06 PM.
|
|
|
03-01-2007, 01:16 PM
|
#13
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,152
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill
i dont think you read/understood what i said.
in my analogy, the "baptists" were the unthinking ones (gross generalization), and the "atheists" the logical ones (another generalization but in this case a complimentary one). So therefore there would be no reason to say "no offense" to atheists in this situation, and i will not.
After all, its just a bloody analogy.
and yes, im religious.
|
Okay, understood..
But perhaps a less touchy subject to use for your analogies might be something like......
A Ford owner trying to convince a bunch of Chevy owners that they should be driving Fords, (no offence to Chevy owners)
although Chevys suc big time ..
--
__________________
Midi is not audio, it just sounds like it.
|
|
|
03-01-2007, 01:29 PM
|
#14
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 124
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillip2637
Sometimes.... Maybe.... But....
Right, that's more like it. For much software, support exists primarily within the community that builds up around it. If a product's users are, in general, prone to attitude problems it can really limit the value of the package.
Sometimes the users are an excellent reflection of the product and the company/source that produces it, whether generous or secretive, friendly or antagonistic, open or defensive....
|
Let's have some more of those "Baptist Think Tank" type analogies!
But honestly, it's true that listening to someone blab on about how great what they have is, and how much better it is than what you have, well, this can get pretty dang annoying. Combine this with the fact that communication is very impersonal and prone to awkwardness on the internet, and you can generate some hostility.
Reaper is making it's good rep without the extra emphasis. Note Jens' post above...
__________________
"Whatever we do, it is what it is, and we do it."
-The Grubs
|
|
|
03-01-2007, 01:33 PM
|
#15
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: A place that allows me to protect myself...
Posts: 8,245
|
Quote:
A Ford owner trying to convince a bunch of Chevy owners that they should be driving Fords, (no offence to Chevy owners)
|
Aw NAW! You done went and done it now!!! I'm a comin' over there and...
D
|
|
|
03-01-2007, 02:32 PM
|
#16
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,152
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diogenes
Aw NAW! You done went and done it now!!! I'm a comin' over there and...
D
|
Hey!....listen pal, Nothing beats a Ford....nothin' ya hear me.....ya have to be an idiot to be driving a Chevy.......
.........ooooooooh ..
joking of course ..
--
__________________
Midi is not audio, it just sounds like it.
|
|
|
03-01-2007, 02:49 PM
|
#17
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: A place that allows me to protect myself...
Posts: 8,245
|
LOL. I'm a goofin' RoKK... I actually own two Fords and an old Dodge. The last GM product I owned was in '93.
D
|
|
|
03-01-2007, 03:15 PM
|
#18
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,605
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jens
I think they are very unfair right now but they've got a reason for it which is mainly in the past - what's mainly annoying is that many of you Reaper fans seem to disregard other great stuff - and I think that's the point which creates all the hostility.
|
They're not simply unfair; there's pure and defiant hostility around against anything REAPER. Some say it was the same for Tracktion when it started and got an enthusiastic user base. It almost looks like some sort of xenophobia in DAW country.
jens, I don't see 'Reaper fans' disregarding other stuff. This forum is full of sincere interest in what other companies and apps are doing. Many feature requests are motivated that way. Certainly the praise of eXT has often been sung here and in the middle of the fuzz over at KVR I felt the need to write
"That enthusiasm - you should blame Justin for that. His work triggers it. And he himself is so laid back when it comes to attracting attention to that work, that we sometimes feel the need to compensate that and sing about the wonderful things he's doing.
You'll find the same enthusiam over at energyXT. A same kind of coder perhaps, jorgen, the kind of dev whose praise one likes to sing."
And that's the way I still feel. REAPER and eXT have to build their user bases without marketing and sales managers, bought reviews, add campaigns etc. Both apps have users that LOVE working with the software, that are dedicated to its devs, development and community. Both Justin and jorgen keep away from shouting "Buy my stuff! Brand new formulas! The only product you'll ever need!" etc at the market place. We like their attitude and yet sometimes in forums some of us wish to compensate for their modesty in this respect. Cause we know and experience they're rather brilliant, uncommonly good at what they're doing. But at KVR as soon as some of that users' love for their work is revealed, guys like ttoz are being filled to the brim with hatred. Others no doubt decide to check out the app where the fuzz is all about.
It's really quite bizarre. But enthusiasm is, as you know, a divine power that should and will not be silenced by hatred or attacks
- and sorry for the too many words. That's my problem when I don't write in my native language.
Last edited by alex zonder; 03-01-2007 at 03:17 PM.
|
|
|
03-01-2007, 04:30 PM
|
#19
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,152
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diogenes
LOL. I'm a goofin' RoKK... I actually own two Fords and an old Dodge. The last GM product I owned was in '93.
D
|
I love cars, trucks, bikes.....Ford, VW, Chevy, Harley, Yamaha, Kawasaki, etc.....I drive 'em and ride 'em, it's fun, I enjoy it..... I watch some Nascar, some Formula 1. I like guitars, Martin, Washburn, Taylor, Johnson, Yamaha, etc.....I play 'em, I enjoy it. I like to record my music using my computer.......well, you get where I'm going with this....
So, anyway, I can't for the life of me, figure out what all the bickering, and fanboy stuff is all about when it comes to software.
The next time you're behind the wheel of your car (not you, anyone), and someone gives you the finger, just remember, it could be the mild mannered school teacher that lives down the street.......same with the internet.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again...
I much prefer to smell the people I'm talking to.
--
__________________
Midi is not audio, it just sounds like it.
|
|
|
03-01-2007, 04:47 PM
|
#20
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 42
|
My two cents, and worth every bit of it --
I think of some of this as being like an allergic response. The more you're exposed to something that irritates you, the more sensitized you become to it, and the more strongly you react to it. There's been quite a bit of back and forth on this subject for at least the last half-year on KVR, and some people are highly, highly sensitized. It's unfortunate, but it's also understandable that you get such a strong allergic reaction at KVR now.
Alex, I'd like to spread oil on the waters and calm them a bit, rather than provoking anything unhappy. But you lost control in that KVR thread and were posting nothing but insults for much of it.
I'm an enthusiastic Reaper user myself, and bought it, I think, the first day that Justin started accepting money for his work here. Reaper suits me down to the ground. I've posted its praises more than once at KVR.
But even I get very quickly tired of being evangelized about Reaper. I don't know where you live, but I live in the heart of fundamentalist Texas, so there's a direct emotional connection here for me. I've been religiously evangelized by zealots off and on for most of my life. It starts out being a little interesting, informative, and entertaining. It quickly becomes irritating, because, at a certain point, I realize that the evangelists have no respect for my beliefs or experience. They just want to convert me.
And they get angry if I don't buy into their reasoning. Some of them, anyhow. Others are more sophisticated, and realize that we come to our beliefs about religion and life and Reaper in our own ways and in our own time. They know that all they can do is get the message out and let you make of it what you will.
The message is out at KVR. Everyone knows that it exists and that it's a fine piece of work with many happy users. No need to beat anyone up over it. I say this with the greatest of respect for the enthusiastic users here who want to lead others toward the light that is Reaper, out of the kindness of your hearts.
Tread lightly. Softly, softly, catchee monkey.
Last edited by GreyLion; 03-01-2007 at 04:50 PM.
|
|
|
03-01-2007, 04:48 PM
|
#21
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 124
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by RokkD
I much prefer to smell the people I'm talking to.
--
|
Amen, I say.
__________________
"Whatever we do, it is what it is, and we do it."
-The Grubs
|
|
|
03-01-2007, 05:09 PM
|
#22
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 424
|
ah i see Reaper is starting to get a little of what SAW people have been used to for years.
let me tell you something, whenever a little guy comes up and throws out a huge right hook to the industry you are going to find all kinds of hostility out there from people who have no idea what they are talking about, and need to justify what they have spent their money on
for years i have been bashed all over the place for sometimes saying what i think of SAW in a forum where people are ASKING FOR COMPARISON'S.
reaper is gaining traction and is enjoying some new found success, as soon as this happens you will have people flying out of the established DAW'S ready and willing to tear you down no matter what.
my only advice to is to remain civil, stick to the facts, openly express interest in their point of view and if none of that works just leave it alone. the quality of the program will speak for itself. Bob lentini and i am sure Justin have no desire to debate points with people who have alredy made up their minds and nor should you up toa point
of course we could hunt them all down if all else fails
just my 2 cents from someone who has been threw the ringer before
|
|
|
03-01-2007, 05:17 PM
|
#23
|
Mortal
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,654
|
I was thinking earlier about our delight with ReaEQ - it's a bit like a guy who runs out in the street yelling, "My kid can walk! My kid can walk!". Now that's news for the street to be excited about if the kid had a spinal cord injury and has just amazed medical science - but if he's 18 months old and just taken his first steps, well, that's what all kids do.
So, for those not that interested in Reaper, news that it now has a built-in EQ (even a very nice one) is a bit of a yawn, especially if we tell them that in the middle of a discussion about supposedly high end feature-rich stand-alone EQs. Like if I posted here that Acoustica 4 now has one added - would we actually care? Would we go look at it? Probably not, unless it had some unique feature that the whole audio world had been waiting for with bated breath.
|
|
|
03-01-2007, 05:18 PM
|
#24
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,994
|
Jason,
You're starting to sound like me over a year ago. I used to love KVR because there seemed to be a well rounded and open minded userbase, then something changed and I decided to quit participating in the discussions at KVR. I went back after ignoring KVR for a year due to my enthusiasm over the Reaper development and got slagged....some of those same KVR warrior slaggers are now over here boosting about Reaper....oh the irony!!! I see the same trend on the Sonar forums also. I'm now also seeing a lot of Sonar forum users participating over here now too. I guess everyone is not a moron at the KVR and Sonar forums....sometimes it just takes some people to hit themselves on the head with a hammer a few times before they start to come around and face the reality...I used to be eager to pull my hammer out and knock them in the head a few times. As you know I can be pretty good at reaching out and grabbing someone by the throat and using my hammer when I have to...I just chose to let them beat themselves up with that hammer now after trying to be debatibly informative...LOL!!!
Last edited by Rednroll; 03-01-2007 at 05:29 PM.
|
|
|
03-01-2007, 05:19 PM
|
#25
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,605
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyLion
My two cents, and worth every bit of it --
I think of some of this as being like an allergic response. The more you're exposed to something that irritates you, the more sensitized you become to it, and the more strongly you react to it. There's been quite a bit of back and forth on this subject for at least the last half-year on KVR, and some people are highly, highly sensitized. It's unfortunate, but it's also understandable that you get such a strong allergic reaction at KVR now.
Alex, I'd like to spread oil on the waters and calm them a bit, rather than provoking anything unhappy. But you lost control in that KVR thread and were posting nothing but insults for much of it.
I'm an enthusiastic Reaper user myself, and bought it, I think, the first day that Justin started accepting money for his work here. Reaper suits me down to the ground. I've posted its praises more than once at KVR.
But even I get very quickly tired of being evangelized about Reaper. I don't know where you live, but I live in the heart of fundamentalist Texas, so there's a direct emotional connection here for me. I've been religiously evangelized by zealots off and on for most of my life. It starts out being a little interesting, informative, and entertaining. It quickly becomes irritating, because, at a certain point, I realize that the evangelists have no respect for my beliefs or experience. They just want to convert me.
And they get angry if I don't buy into their reasoning. Some of them, anyhow. Others are more sophisticated, and realize that we come to our beliefs about religion and life and Reaper in our own ways and in our own time. They know that all they can do is get the message out and let you make of it what you will.
The message is out at KVR. Everyone knows that it exists and that it's a fine piece of work with many happy users. No need to beat anyone up over it. I say this with the greatest of respect for the enthusiastic users here who want to lead others toward the light that is Reaper, out of the kindness of your hearts.
Tread lightly. Softly, softly, catchee monkey.
|
Wise and gentle words, GreyLion, but maybe not an accurate description of what is happening in these KVR forums. Just see what happened yesterday with ttoz starting an attack in the EQ thread, see how Kingston entered the ReaComp thread.
I dislike evangelism, I even dislike the whole concept and ideology of religion, certainly monotheisms, I live in the south of France (no evangelists around, no religious schools etc.) and I reject Jesus' efforts to stop the jewish revolt against their Roman oppressors: when you get beaten, you gotta fight back, first by using words, preferably arguments containing facts, and if necessary by using your fists or other tools around. Never let someone beat you up, I'd say.
At KVR I sometimes hit back (using words), but I never start 'beating anyone up' over anything. But I dislike the whole thing, especially because all parties involve lose control.
Well, anyway. Thanks for reflecting on it. You're right, the message is out there and we wish it all the best.
|
|
|
03-01-2007, 05:29 PM
|
#26
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Port Neches, Texas
Posts: 1,948
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by RokkD
...a less touchy subject to use for your analogies might be something like......
A Ford owner trying to convince a bunch of Chevy owners that they should be driving Fords
|
Excellent analogy, actually. And believe me, as a car guy, thats a nearly religious situation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RokkD
although Chevys suc big time ..
|
Haha!! I agree!
(He says - as he ducks and runs)
__________________
IT'S A TROMBONE !!!
|
|
|
03-01-2007, 05:32 PM
|
#27
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Port Neches, Texas
Posts: 1,948
|
And, by the way, I generally can't stand the crowd at KVR - a nastier bunch you're nor likely to come across often. There are exceptions, of course, but - jeez Louise, what a bunch of snot nosed d***heads.
I lurk there a bit, and post rarely, but avoid it mostly.
__________________
IT'S A TROMBONE !!!
|
|
|
03-01-2007, 05:35 PM
|
#28
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sydney Oz
Posts: 8,480
|
I think the absolute key thing here Alex is, ttoz HATES you calling him Teddy.
Enemy of the Reaper and especially his fanboys...quite a catchy signature! Well it makes me laugh when I see it anyway
Probably the only way to stop it is totally ignore the flames, like a troll...don't feed it.
Hard to resist I know when they talk out their arse with bogus facts...you can only try
|
|
|
03-01-2007, 05:46 PM
|
#29
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,957
|
fluffy....
interesting that u mention cars.
i think the car industry will go thru what
daw software is going thru.
ie...new products makeing folks question the status quo.
ie...as the same way that reaper is (and i'm glad.....)
upsetting the status quo in daw software,
possibly new entrants will upset the status quo in the car industry.
for example i recently read an english kit car magazine...
and its obvious that kit cars are growing by leaps n bounds in the uk where i'm from.. cos brit folks are fed up haveing the same old same old cars...n want something different.
well in this brit kit mag..i was blown away...
a honey of what looked like a morgan sports car clone for 5k pounds.(about 12k buks.) all powder blue n beautifull.
my beard did a salute....lol. i was in lust....lol.
altho ive been a chevy owner it made me think twice for the future...like reaper did for me about daws. when i have some buks for a new vehicle. like my love for rpr...i was in love with this car.
hmm...lol....i wonder if i could install a reaper daw in the car n plug in a guitar. total happiness...lol.
|
|
|
03-01-2007, 05:49 PM
|
#30
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,605
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevosss
I think the absolute key thing here Alex is, ttoz HATES you calling him Teddy.
|
You might be right there. It's fascinating. In a counter-attack to his many rants on REAPER maybe almost a year ago? I called him DJ Teddy Toz. Why? I forgot. Just an impulse. But he got so angry about that - be responded by writing that now he would ask KVR to throw me out because of calling him DJ Teddy Toz!
Please note that Teddy is adressing me in terms like 'a lowlife scumfucking loser', while I simply call him Teddy.
Intriguing guy, when you think of it. Hitchcock would have been interested.
|
|
|
03-01-2007, 05:53 PM
|
#31
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sydney Oz
Posts: 8,480
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex zonder
Y
Please note that Teddy is adressing me in terms like 'a lowlife scumfucking loser', while I simply call him Teddy.
Intriguing guy, when you think of it. Hitchcock would have been interested.
|
They both called you worse than that...the 'C' word comes to mind, that'll really impress the ladies. I hope it NEVER degenerates into that language around here, and I doubt it will.
|
|
|
03-01-2007, 06:23 PM
|
#32
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 632
|
I know I want REAPER to be able to be discussed in KvR just like any other host. Such discussion is valuable to a site where such a wide variety of musicians congregate. KvR may be a small small site (which I think is underestimating its size and influence actually - another story), but it is a place where I think one of the main benefits is that you can find quality solutions that do not have the "quality" price tag.
REAPER qualifies in this category at least and I think fostering an awareness of this program along with many others - EnergyXT, Podium, Luna etc... is a good thing.
However, in KvR, the REAPER situation is a little unstable because of past events. Whose fault it was isn't really important anymore, but it just might mean a more careful tread is required. I thought we were having success with that actually, but it seems we've had a recent relapse.
Now you guys can stay out of KvR if you wish. You can limit all your discussion of REAPER here - hey it's the REAPER user forum why not? But I would encourage at least some of you not to take this approach, despite the problems we're seeing in KvR.
There will always be new groups of computer music makers out there who could potentially benefit from knowing about REAPER - that it exists, that it is affordable and that you don't need Cubase or Logic to make quality music. You guys don't need to hear it, Justin doesn't need to hear it, but some people out there do need to hear it.
For me, I'd rather new users not choose Cubase and put themselves out of pocket just because EnergyXT wasn't for them - you know what I mean? I'd like them to be aware of all the options they have and personally, I'd rather see them pay less rather than more unless those high-end products really are the best solution for them.
KvR removed the need for me back then to buy Logic and Cool Edit Pro as a sequencing/audio editing solution, which is what the retail stores back then were saying was the only real option for me. The site is as relevant now as it was back then as far as I'm concerned.
Regards
Caleb
|
|
|
03-01-2007, 06:26 PM
|
#33
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: A place that allows me to protect myself...
Posts: 8,245
|
Quote:
hmm...lol....i wonder if i could install a reaper daw in the car n plug in a guitar. total happiness...lol.
|
SURE! The Volkswagon Jetta First Act REAPER Edition. Guitar, Amp, and DAW built right into the car!
D
PS BTW, This Teddy fellow sounds like he has some serious umm... "issues"? I too hope this forum does not degenerate to that kind of crap.
|
|
|
03-01-2007, 06:30 PM
|
#34
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 970
|
jens has made some good points. and to be too entusiastic gives often the impression : this is the only way to think. information on reaper should be strictly informative and a "IMHO" helps others to understand. allthough it's clear that for some persons at kvr it's too late reminds me of tracktion and me and lunch money. he had long time not forgiven me that i thought mackie would be the end of tracktion, hmm.
|
|
|
03-01-2007, 06:34 PM
|
#35
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sydney Oz
Posts: 8,480
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by caleb
There will always be new groups of computer music makers out there who could potentially benefit from knowing about REAPER - that it exists, that it is affordable and that you don't need Cubase or Logic to make quality music. You guys don't need to hear it, Justin doesn't need to hear it, but some people out there do need to hear it.
Regards
Caleb
|
That's the only reason I post there, it's too much like entering the Lions Den to enjoy it though.
I heard about Reaper on Gearslutz, so I'll always be grateful to the guy who directed me here. I hope someone else sees a post by me and does likewise, that would be worth it.
The history must be BAD for them to react like that... I'm not going to read it all, I'll just assume it was Jason
|
|
|
03-01-2007, 06:38 PM
|
#36
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,994
|
I used to be a Ford guy...then I owned one. I used to be a Chevy guy and then I owned 2. I think I liked my Chevy's better than my Ford experience. Now that I've worked in the automotive industry for quite awhile and have had to work with the majority of automotive manufacturers and have learned their policies and politics. I can honestly say, that I'm neither a Chevy or Ford advocate any longer. I'm now a Toyota guy.
And before any of you guys go off on me for being unAmerican and all that stuff...let me share a story. I used to work for a Japanese company designing electronic audio equipment. My main 2 customers that we had business with was GM and Ford. The products I supported where mainly designed in Japan and built in China and Mexico. I now work for a U.S. based company and the products are designed and built in U.S. One of our major customers are Toyota. So previously a Japanese company selling to a U.S. company and now a U.S. company selling to a Japanese company. Which is more American? $400 Million/year worth of business from Toyota the last I checked. When it comes to being a supplier for GM and Ford they will use a system very similar to Ebay. They offer a certain amount of business and they have auctions where each potential supplier will try to under bid each other for the business to ultimately drive the price down for Ford and GM, so they make more profit.
In the final decision of who gets the business there are 5 things the company considers and puts them in an order of importance.
Here's what I have noticed when being a supplier for GM and Ford in their order of importance when deciding on who gets the business.
1. Price
2. Features/Functions
3. Familiarity with working with that supplier
4. Customer Support
5. Quality
Here's the order I have noticed with Toyota
1. Quality
2. Familiarity with working with that supplier
3. Features/Functions
4. Price
5. Customer Support
So with GM and Ford they are mainly concerned with "Price" and "quality" seems to fall on the bottom of their consideration list. Where Toyota's main concern is "Quality". This list is not fact, but just comes from my experience when working with these companies as a supplier. It does explain why Toyota vehicles that are similar in style to Ford and GM models are usually a little more expensive though.
Additionally each automotive supplier has testing specifications that it must pass for initial design quality checks. These tests are very similar between all the aumotive suppliers. Toyota has the most rigorous tests that your supplied part must pass compared to all the other automotive manufacturers. For example there are "durability" tests, where your product gets tested under extreme temperature fluctuations over a specified amount of time. These durability tests are a test simulation which will basically tell you how long the life of your product will survive in the vehicle environment. GM and Ford tests temperature variation is not as extreme as Toyota's and additionally the Toyota tests are 3 times longer in duration. I believe the Toyota test simulates about a 10 year life duration, while Ford and GM's simulate a 3-5 year duration...About the same as that GM/Ford manufacturer's warranty huh??? Probably a good reason my Pontiac Grand-Am GT seems to be having one problem or another lately with something breaking now that it's 6 years old and out of warranty huh? Well, it gave me a good 5 years anyways I guess.
Toyota also seems to try and maintain the same suppliers for a long time once a supplier initially gets their foot in the door. So Toyota develops it's vehicles under a Japanese philosophy known as "Kaizen". This translates to "Continuous Improvement". So if they're having quality problems with a current supplier they will chose to work more closely with that supplier to work on improving the next design in their next generation of the vehicle. Thus, they are "continuously improving" on the current design to ultimately get to an exceptional level of quality. GM and Ford will just look for another supplier and with that new supplier comes no history of quality that has been developed with the previous supplier in their vehicles. So then this new supplier comes in with new quality problems. So it's like fixing one thing while breaking another in a sense and it's a crap shoot if you're really improving upon what you previously had.
Toyota is also building more plants and building cars here in the U.S. They just recently opened a plant in Texas. while Ford and GM seem to be shutting down production plants in the U.S. and building more cars in Mexico and China. Toyota currently has 6 production plants in the U.S. and 1 in Canada. So again, tell me which is more of an American car? There was also recent news where Toyota is now entering in the good ole American sport of Nascar. Toyota cars driven by American drivers in a U.S. sport. A lot of those Nascar rednecks are pretty upset about that one, screaming that it's unAmerican. If they only knew as much as I do about their so called "American" cars.
Last edited by Rednroll; 03-01-2007 at 06:46 PM.
|
|
|
03-01-2007, 06:41 PM
|
#37
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,957
|
my goodness..think i'll stay away from kvr after just seeing some threads there. crikey...such hostility.
glad this place is so peacefull.
think i'll make a tee shirt ..i'm a rpr fan boy......lol.
justin must be haveing a good chuckle about it all.
|
|
|
03-01-2007, 06:48 PM
|
#38
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 632
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevosss
The history must be BAD for them to react like that... I'm not going to read it all, I'll just assume it was Jason
|
That's funny.
Strangely enough Jason was involved in the discussions. I think he even started the famous thread that kicked it all off.
But I think it would be over-simplifying to say that it was Jason. I think the only completely destructive I ever saw him do was completely sabotage that thread by changing the title and removing every single one of his posts in it. Yeah - it got that bad unfortunately.
But I'm hoping we will look back and smile about such things eventually, when REAPER will become just another choice for new and experienced music-makers alike.
Regards,
Caleb
|
|
|
03-01-2007, 07:02 PM
|
#39
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 399
|
I lurk in kvr now and then.
I remember the communal Reaper bashing sessions lol.
The lads have turned up again concerning a thread about a certain eq.
AAH-The Reaper troll crew-hehe.
Last edited by smasha; 03-01-2007 at 07:15 PM.
|
|
|
03-01-2007, 07:23 PM
|
#40
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,572
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by caleb
But I think it would be over-simplifying to say that it was Jason. I think the only completely destructive I ever saw him do was completely sabotage that thread by changing the title and removing every single one of his posts in it. Yeah - it got that bad unfortunately.
|
Bevoss simply has no idea -- it was this bad, and I spammed the thread with usless images until it got closed. previous to that, all i did was try to help people, and clear up misunderstandings...feel free to look up the "reaper trainwreck" thread. people didnt have to read the thread, at all, but no, certain ones had to come in and judge it by its appearance, a limitation of a few features (that were later implemented) and accuse everyone of being fanboy's when in reality perhaps one of us was being this way...
really, if kvr, like any forum, is supposed to be like walkin into a pub and talking among people, that's one hell of a pub. you set up a little corner in a BIG pub for talking about something, and some group of jerks just HAS to come in and try to ruin it. Unfortunately it seems that lately, the jerks have been justified in part because of this one group being too loud... but perhaps its a reactionary tactic to the past. I say to everyone, cant it just be bloody let go?
Quote:
Originally Posted by koolkeys
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenn
(sorry, is this the 5-minute argument, or the full half-hour?)
Hi all,
First let me apologise at being late into this. Been busy, y'know, but still it's bad to neglect one's friends. I'll try to be more diligent in future. I'm fine, hope you are too.
Nice to see all the old faces dropping by, with all the same arguments, on both sides, they had in previous Reaper threads. Some profanity, some theory, gobs of irrationality...just a warm 'n tasty stew of stimulating debate.
For the moment, please just assume that I would have come up with something pro-Reaper that's slightly over the top, so much irony it's rusty, and possibly some veiled putdowns. Followed by a flurry of rationalizations, attempts to clarify, and maybe finishing with something conciliatory. There, I feel caught up now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by koolkeys
So I did. And Justin's response to me was "if you don't use it, why do you care" and "I'm growing tired of the things you say". Yeah, that was sure inviting.
|
Aw dude. Was that single incident... 6 months ago? You're nursing that grudge like a Bonsai tree. Everybody (even Justin, peace be upon him) can have a bad day. Let it go... just let it go...
|
Who said I hold a grudge? Where have I mentioned it anywhere except to dispute the apparent fact that everyone is welcome to share an opinion? I could care less what Justin thinks of me or if he wants me to use his app or not. Come to think of it, I never even once got concerned about it.
But the statement was brought up about even non-users being welcome to share and suggest things. And that just simply isn't always true.
A single incident is all it takes. Why would I want to come back and even try to help? I actually in the old Reaper threads had some good discussions, and had requests that others agreed with. I reported bugs that I found that others also found annoying. I tried to help out with the development as much as I could. But then I made the mistake of making a post on the Reaper forums. Apparently, it wasn't so welcome.
Brent
|
great example of exaggerated crap.
I was unregistered here for months whilst suggesting things, and we know that several here have the same position...
so we can only assume, since i cant find the post, that it was because of the WAY that koolkeys presented his "suggestions" that he was "treated" in such a way.
...time to find that thread.
Last edited by Jae.Thomas; 03-01-2007 at 07:27 PM.
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:50 PM.
|