I've used Melodyne Essential for over 3 years in almost every project I mix and I always think I should upgrade to Editor when they do that sale very year ($150) but my second thought is if I've gotten the job done all these years with that version why I should upgrade. We all have different needs in our studios but Essential is just fine for tuning vocals and instruments.
__________________ Pressure is what turns coal into diamonds - Michael a.k.a. Runaway
I used ReaTune for months, then bought Melodyne Essential and tried it for a while, and thought it had some very innovative thinking behind it, but for me it just did too much. All I wanted to do was fix up a couple bad notes in a vocal track here and there and have it be as natural and transparent as possible, and Melodyne is capable of so much more, and is really designed to do so much more.
I tried out WavesTune and instantly knew it was the one I wanted. It's laid out really well, I like the editing setup and tools, and it sounds the most natural of the three I've tried (but Auto-Tune is not among them). I kind of have to really screw with it to make something sound unnatural, instead of the other way around, which is how I think it should be. If I want effects I'll get a different plug.
Personally I think they're probably all very capable, but WavesTune definitely made the most sense to me by far and seems to be the most logical in it's workflow and intent, but I'm not looking to do anything but fix up vocals.
I also have a license for FL Studio, and their pitch correction plugin Newtone 2. I tried all the pitch correction plugins, and all the freeware stuff also ( g-snap, etc ), and for me the workflow, tools and results I got from Newtone were superior to the rest of 'em. I believe you have to have FL Studio to use it though, so mentioning it might be pointless after all, but it's a pretty great piece of software.
How sophisticated is it? Compared to Reatune and Melodyne?
One more vote for Waves Tune. Very quick and easy to use compared to melodyne. I was surprised how quick it was.
If you're using melodyne use the standalone editor and import/export files. Just doesnt do too well as a plugin.
Also melodyne has a steeper learning curve. You have to split the notes up, and clean up the pitch detection before you even start working on a file. But once you watch a couple youtube videos on the melodyne workflow you will get adjusted to it.
If you're using melodyne use the standalone editor and import/export files. Just doesnt do too well as a plugin.
It usually does just fine, if there are no changes in tempo or time signature (which is most often the case). Using the standalone editor is usually more trouble than it's worth.
For a simple fix, the best policy might be to save the project, open Melodyne plug-in, make the tweaks, and then render the track and remove Melodyne from the project, just in case....
It sounds like a PITA, but I have found Melodyne to be worth the effort so far. I haven't tried Waves Tune yet.
I've used Melodyne Essential for over 3 years in almost every project I mix and I always think I should upgrade to Editor when they do that sale very year ($150) but my second thought is if I've gotten the job done all these years with that version why I should upgrade. We all have different needs in our studios but Essential is just fine for tuning vocals and instruments.
Yep. Essential is fine for tuning vocals. It just doesn't do formants so you're limited if you want to do some of the other more creative stuff like doing fake harmonies. But for the 30-50 cent pitch up/down here or there to fix sharp or flat vocal notes, it works great. It's also an exceptional vocal de-esser.
Editor's additional tools come more into play for the other stuff, like salvaging a piano or guitar track with a few bad notes.
Thanks for all the great info! I had the opportunity to use Melodyne Editor over the weekend and really tried to dig into it. Obviously it took me more time to do a vocal. I was spending around 1 1/2 to 2 hours per vocal really getting into each syllable. After everything was done, I went back to one of the songs and did my thing with autotune and compared them. To me it was really close and in some ways I liked Melodyne more. I would have to consider that I have been using autotune for almost 15 years compared to this weekend with Melodyne and would think that when I spend more time on it, I can get better results in the end. So I do plan on getting the Melodyne editor and the worst that can come out of this is I have both at my hands and can use them both for different things or if I have a little extra time, do two passes, one with autotune and the other with Melodyne and combine the two to make the best vocal comp.
Some of you are voting for Wavestune and I had a look at it for just a minute or so. Does it have a graphic mode like Autotune? I didn't see anything like that when I looked at it but again it was only a couple of minutes at the most.
Editor's additional tools come more into play for the other stuff, like salvaging a piano or guitar track with a few bad notes.
It's amazing what a life saver this can be. I was editing a piano album recently and I found that much of the time I could find and remove flam'd notes and bad harmonies right in the middle of the chord. It's not exactly quick to use but nothing else can do this as far as I know.
WavesTunes works and sounds pretty good in Reaper - Nice and easy layout-except the rewire function does not seem to work in reaper..
Works fine for me, just gotta do it in a certain way and in order.
What I do is put Waves Tune on whatever track needs it first. Then, make a new track in the project and put Waves Rewire in the FX for it. Open up Waves Rewire and just click on the MIDI tab; this seems to link them. Close it and go back to Waves Tune and the warning that Rewire isn't working should be gone and everything should work fine.
Don't know why it's this way, but I just do it without even thinking about it now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by meno377
Some of you are voting for Wavestune and I had a look at it for just a minute or so. Does it have a graphic mode like Autotune? I didn't see anything like that when I looked at it but again it was only a couple of minutes at the most.
Actually, I don't think there's any way to use it without the graphic mode. It's only got one GUI.
Waves does seven day trials for all their plugs, I think. Try it out for yourself, see if it feels right. I find it really easy to use; the only time I get in trouble is when I try to screw with things too much.
I don't know if I'd pay $400 for it, that's pretty freaking steep. But they're always running sales where they drop it to $100 and at that price it's definitely one of the best investments I've made.
Every "blob" has an amplitude control. Split the sibilance in the vocal and turn down the amplitude, the level = de-essing.
Works rather well tbh as you don't have a kazillion media splits on the timeline.
I think the amplitude tool is also in Essential, not certain though, I have Editor. Honestly, with Melodyne you could just go through a vocal track using the amplitude tool and "level out" every word or phrase, before you even think about using a compressor on it. It's not just for tuning.
Here is the official Celemony video about de-essing...
Thanks Lawrence for the tip on using Melodyne as a Deesser I didn't know about that one. Yeah Melodyne (Editor) is extremely powerful. I just hope one day the DNA engine becomes better at separating all the notes in an instrument. Right now, the result depends very much on the type of material used.
Also, thanks to all those who have suggested WavesTune. I'll take a look at the demo.
I don't know if I'd pay $400 for it, that's pretty freaking steep. But they're always running sales where they drop it to $100 and at that price it's definitely one of the best investments I've made.
--There was a deal on WavesTune about a year ago -$49 --thats when we picked it up--definitely worth it...
Thanks Lawrence for the tip on using Melodyne as a Deesser I didn't know about that one. Yeah Melodyne (Editor) is extremely powerful. I just hope one day the DNA engine becomes better at separating all the notes in an instrument. Right now, the result depends very much on the type of material used.
Also, thanks to all those who have suggested WavesTune. I'll take a look at the demo.
Chuck
Is that amplitude tool in Essential? Like I said earlier, I don't know if it is or not. I know it doesn't do formants and multi's, but I'm not as aware of some of it's other limitations.
Is that amplitude tool in Essential? Like I said earlier, I don't know if it is or not...
Although I originally had Essential (came with Studio One 2), I immediately upgraded to Editor so I can't say if Essential had the amplitude tool or not.
Every "blob" has an amplitude control. Split the sibilance in the vocal and turn down the amplitude, the level = de-essing.
Works rather well tbh as you don't have a kazillion media splits on the timeline.
I think the amplitude tool is also in Essential, not certain though, I have Editor. Honestly, with Melodyne you could just go through a vocal track using the amplitude tool and "level out" every word or phrase, before you even think about using a compressor on it. It's not just for tuning.
Here is the official Celemony video about de-essing...
Thats what i figured. I do manual de-essing the same way from within Reaper. I learned it by watching Kenny Gioia.
Not sure I see an advantage to doing it within melodyne. Do you find it faster than in reaper?
Not sure I see an advantage to doing it within melodyne. Do you find it faster than in reaper?
If you are already putting the part into melodyne for tuning then it automatically divides up the vocal into component parts. The advantage then is no (or less) need to cut around the sibilants. You can just use the amplitude tool to turn them down. I'm not sure it would be worth flying a whole vocal over for just that one action but for massaging a vocal there really isn't a better tool overall I think.
I've used Melodyne Essential for over 3 years in almost every project I mix and I always think I should upgrade to Editor when they do that sale very year ($150) but my second thought is if I've gotten the job done all these years with that version why I should upgrade. We all have different needs in our studios but Essential is just fine for tuning vocals and instruments.
IF... you upgrade to Editor there are some really neat things you can do to increase your workflow and save time $$$. Polyphonic editing for one. There is a ton of time saved being able to change a bad note played in a chord, rather than having to rerecord that part, or punch it in. Another great trick I used just today on a piano track, and that is converting audio notes to MIDI notes. I have a client that wanted to put a tack piano on his song but he only has a regular grand piano. (He's not a synth guy at all, and we are collaborating sending files back and forth online). So, he sent me his recorded 'real' piano part and then I transferred his real piano into Melodyne. After it was transferred all I did was select "convert to MIDI file" then dropped that Melodyne MIDI file onto a new track in Reaper. I loaded up my MIDI player and then loaded my Fab Four library "Lady Madonna" tack piano from Abbey Roads. Pretty neat trick and it blew his mind to hear his piano part that he played on the grand piano turned into a tack piano. Fun stuff! ...and there is money to be made! In fact, now that I think about it, this one piece of work will end up covering the cost of upgrade. ;-)
If you are already putting the part into melodyne for tuning then it automatically divides up the vocal into component parts. The advantage then is no (or less) need to cut around the sibilants. You can just use the amplitude tool to turn them down. I'm not sure it would be worth flying a whole vocal over for just that one action but for massaging a vocal there really isn't a better tool overall I think.
If you use Melodyne as a plugin on the track then you don't have to process an entire vocal track. You can just transfer a small section of the track. It will switch in the Melodyne part and go back to the regular part automatically. However, before doing that I like to create a Melodyne file folder to store those small files in my Reaper project. Then you can direct Melodyne to save the files into that folder. I really don't care for the way Melodyne saves it's files in some sort of cryptic naming scheme. So even though it does that, at least I know the files are stored with the project and not in some obscure hard to find Melodyne folder under users/appdata/program files/melodyne/wherever....
I would highly suggest ReWiring melodyne and opening the rendered part in the rewire - works better than the plugin.
For those considering Melodyne vs. Waves Tune:
Just now I spent an embarrassing amount of time fixing two vocal tracks in Melodyne and got it sounding exactly the way I wanted. End Result: Everything is in tune, without sounding robotic. Great.
Then, I got another vocal track and I was too lazy and just slapped a Waves Tune in the insert FX. Same freaking result. Sounded great and non-robotic without me doing anything at all.
I felt like the last few hours could have been reduced to minutes if I had used Waves instead of Melodyne (no disrespect). Bah, I digress.
I'm not sure it would be worth flying a whole vocal over for just that one action but for massaging a vocal there really isn't a better tool overall I think.
Well, that's the thing. With ARA, flying over the whole vocal only takes a few seconds. But no, I wouldn't bother real time recording a 3.5 minute vocal into the standard Melodyne plug just to de-ess it but with ARA I might.
It's just another easy choice. With normal manual de-essing you split, trim, and crossfade. Doing it in Melo removes one of those steps... well sometimes two steps, if the detection of the sibilant bit is already a blob all by itself.
I would highly suggest ReWiring melodyne and opening the rendered part in the rewire - works better than the plugin.
For those considering Melodyne vs. Waves Tune:
Just now I spent an embarrassing amount of time fixing two vocal tracks in Melodyne and got it sounding exactly the way I wanted. End Result: Everything is in tune, without sounding robotic. Great.
Then, I got another vocal track and I was too lazy and just slapped a Waves Tune in the insert FX. Same freaking result. Sounded great and non-robotic without me doing anything at all.
I felt like the last few hours could have been reduced to minutes if I had used Waves instead of Melodyne (no disrespect). Bah, I digress.
I'm curious about a couple of things; In Melodyne did you manually go through and correct the blobs in Melodyne? Or did you use the automatic 'Correct to Pitch function'? (and set the percentage of 'correction' you wanted)? If you only have the 'Essentials' version of Melo I don't think it comes with the auto function---but I might be wrong on that.
Also, I'd be interested in the Rewire/Melodyne trick you mention, how to do it, and why it's better. Thanks.
Except for perfectly tuned music, the auto mode in Melodyne sucks.
That is to say that if you actually pause and listen to vocals while editing you'll note that many things not quantized to the musical scale, off the grid a good bit one way or another, actually already sound right, and doing automatic tuning screws some of it up.
That's what trips up some Melo users, they don't have the patience for manual tuning. Is the bass or guitar (you know, that instrument that the entire band tuned to?) 30 cents off? Maybe. You have to tune to what's there, not to the gridded scale on the screen... unless the garage band is somehow perfectly in tune with the E scale.
It would be nice if you could just tell a plugin to tune everything and it does it all by itself in 30 seconds. That's not the real world. In the real world humans intervene and make those decisions.
I'm curious about a couple of things; In Melodyne did you manually go through and correct the blobs in Melodyne? Or did you use the automatic 'Correct to Pitch function'? (and set the percentage of 'correction' you wanted)? If you only have the 'Essentials' version of Melo I don't think it comes with the auto function---but I might be wrong on that.
Also, I'd be interested in the Rewire/Melodyne trick you mention, how to do it, and why it's better. Thanks.
I have the editor and I did manual correction - more predictable than auto correct.
For ReWire mode:
Export your vocal track as a wave file, and import it in melodyne. On the same vocal track insert Melodyne ReWire and load the wave file. Click on '...' near the tempo in melodyne and set it to fixed bpm.
Auditioning blobs and transport worked better in ReWire, fwiw.
@Lawrence - If you have a decent singer (which I did) Waves Tune does it instantly. Slap it in your vocals as an insert. For an entire vocal track, it took me about 10 minutes (5 minutes for it to learn the entire track, and 5 minutes to playback the pitch corrected version) and the results are better than what I would have done in Melodyne.
End result:
- TUNING pitches aka pitch correction: Waves Tune
- CHANGING pitches (to create new melodies/harmonies or whatever): Melodyne
For Melodyne I HIGHLY, HIGHLY recommend watching the tutorials or you'd be lost. You really gotta know the workflow - chopping the blobs, using the modulation tool, timing tool, pitch curve, etc. to get what you want or you'd end up being frustrated.
For Waves Tune: I just learned a couple basics and got it working.
@Lawrence - If you have a decent singer (which I did) Waves Tune does it instantly. Slap it in your vocals as an insert. For an entire vocal track, it took me about 10 minutes (5 minutes for it to learn the entire track, and 5 minutes to playback the pitch corrected version) and the results are better than what I would have done in Melodyne.
I don't doubt it. "Decent singer" and a well tuned production probably helps a lot.
I've never used Waves Tune so I'm really not involved in the "which is the best" discussion here, I have no idea. I do hear about people sending off stuff to be tuned with Melo and getting back something that (apparently) nobody really critically listened to, but mostly just did the automatic thing.
I'm sure the auto thing works fine in some cases with Melo, and in some other cases not so much. If it always works in Waves Tune despite the source, that's cool.
My only point was that even though some of these tools are really great, sometimes we still have to work, sometimes they actually don't do it all for us.
Honestly, in reality, with a talented singer and assuming the engineer has done his job right and not fed the singer a cue mix that interfered with his or her ability to be on pitch, there really shouldn't even be a ton of tuning to do on vocals... an occasional note here and there. On the "anyone can be a singer now" front though, yeah, you can just dig in and put a terrible singer in tune in a half hour.
But yeah, in the home studio there's a long list of reasons why a singer might have trouble being on pitch, some having nothing to do with their vocal ability... and of course... as I keep reminding people... Melodyne is good for a lot more than vocal tuning.. so I'm not sure (not knowing) if the products are even comparable at all beyond that job.
Well I have had more time on Melodyne and comparing it with Variaudio, I noticed a difference in how the high end is treated on Melodyne. Obviously it can be tweaked more after the fact but wasn't extremely impressed on how it sounded to me coming back. I am sure this has been done several times but I plan on spending a few days to really compare: Autotune, Melodyne, Wavestune, and Variaudio and hope to have some results as: what sounds the best, how much can each program manipulate pitch in manual mode and auto mode, and ease of use. The other factor would be integration vs standalone usages. Hope to post in a couple of weeks as I do have some extra time to do this. Again I realize this has probably been done multiple times, but as each program gets an update or complete overall technology changes quickly. If there are any other suggestions, please comment!
EDIT: To add: I will also get into Reatune more also. Obviously while some may be more user friendly and more integrated depending on what DAW you use, my main focus obviously is the sound quality in the end.
I would highly suggest ReWiring melodyne and opening the rendered part in the rewire - works better than the plugin.
For those considering Melodyne vs. Waves Tune:
Just now I spent an embarrassing amount of time fixing two vocal tracks in Melodyne and got it sounding exactly the way I wanted. End Result: Everything is in tune, without sounding robotic. Great.
Then, I got another vocal track and I was too lazy and just slapped a Waves Tune in the insert FX. Same freaking result. Sounded great and non-robotic without me doing anything at all.
I felt like the last few hours could have been reduced to minutes if I had used Waves instead of Melodyne (no disrespect). Bah, I digress.
That has been my experience as well. Waves Tune is transparent and works extremely well for it's stated purpose when I take as much of a 'hands off' approach as I can, and that's what I'm after. I'm working with generally competent singers who need a couple corrected notes here and there after editing.
I can't really speak to the effectiveness of either pieces of software for more hardcore editing or manipulation because I just don't really find myself doing that sort of thing. So my input on the subject should be taken with those limitations in mind.
If you're after transparency and a natural sound, Waves Tune is the fastest and easiest I've come across. I think they can all do it, and they can all do the weirder stuff, but Waves seems to have set things up where the default setup does the natural sort of thing really well without much deeper tweaking required.
Those looking to get Waves Tune at a discount, now might be the time. $149 for a 6 plugin bundle that includes Tune. http://www.waves.com/bundles/vocal
Only this weekend.
Fwiw, $99 is the lowest I've seen Tune. $49 probably requires a lot more patience.
I have everything Melodyne and never used anything else.
I can run the Editor while running Reaper diminished at the bottom of the screen and have the file loaded really quick to do an edit.
Suits me and has never had any quirks.
If you're after transparency and a natural sound, Waves Tune is the fastest and easiest I've come across. I think they can all do it, and they can all do the weirder stuff, but Waves seems to have set things up where the default setup does the natural sort of thing really well without much deeper tweaking required.
NOPE: reatune is quicker and sounds better.
SINCERELY: most of the waves stuff sounds horrid.
Those looking to get Waves Tune at a discount, now might be the time. $149 for a 6 plugin bundle that includes Tune. http://www.waves.com/bundles/vocal
Only this weekend.
Fwiw, $99 is the lowest I've seen Tune. $49 probably requires a lot more patience.
Thanks for the info. BTW, if you want an even better deal, AudioDeluxe sells it at $124.99 (once you login and add it to your cart) AND if you add the Waves Coupon it comes to 116.24 US$ That's a very good deal.
FWIW, I tried the demo and after some initial problems with getting WavesTune to properly sync with Rewire in Reaper, it worked fine with even full synchronization of Reaper's time cursor/time selection area with WavesTune timeline. As for the quality of the pitch correction algorithm compared to Reatune and Melodyne, on some material it sounded better and on some other, it sounded worse but with just a little practice adjusting for the proper pitch correction curve, the final result (to my ears anyway) sounded overall better than ReaTune, mostly because WavesTune is MUCH more powerful/versatile than ReaTune to use. With WT, you can really zoom in each note and adjust them very precisely, something you can't do with ReaTune (not yet anyway)
OTOH, a comparison with Melodyne is harder to do since Melodyne has a different work flow and I use it for different purpose (DNA, adding harmonies) but I would agree with other reviewers that for quick and great sounding pitch corrections, WavesTune is slightly better than Melodyne. Of course, with Melodyne you can do much more (i.e. time stretch) but it is also much more time consuming.