v6.13+dev0812 - August 12 2020

[_Stevie_]

v6.13+dev0812b - August 12 2020

• # Area selection: fix action to add media item to existing area selection

This thread is for pre-release features discussion. Use the Feature Requests forum for other requests.

Changelog - Pre-Releases

Generated by X-Raym's REAPER ChangeLog to BBCode

[clepsydrae]

I'm behind on these... from +dev0808 we had "+ FX shortcuts: allow more than 100 actions, use registered action IDs for new shortcuts to improve portability across systems" -- would someone mind explaining? I'm familiar with keyboard shortcuts for FX adding. Not clear on how actions play in to it. Thanks!

[xpander]

Undo misbehaves with the Area selection: Set to items action.
Starting point; three tracks with one item on each, none of the tracks or items selected.
-select the item on the first track
-use the action Area selection: Set to items
-Use Undo
Result: Area selection disappears, all the items get selected.
Expected: Area and item selections disappear.

Above happened when the item selection was not included in undo history in preferences. When item selection was included in undo, correct item selection remained after the area selection undo. After that undo seems to work correctly both ways?

[ovnis]

For mon consistency, is it possible to set the length of the outline area selection to 1 px, please ?

[planetnine]

+ Actions: add action to set area selection to selected items

Is this: "Area selection: Set to items"?

This seems to place an all-encompassing AS around all selected items, enclosing any non-selected items too if within the area. Is this how it is intended to work?


>

[Koka]

+ FX shortcuts: allow more than 100 actions, use registered action IDs for new shortcuts to improve portability across systems

The problem remains but is defferent way in 6.13+dev0808 and 6.13+dev0812.

in dev0808 - 0812 after creating shortcut for fx plugin this action is not showing in actions list. for both: keyboard shortcut or only command Id (without keyboard shortcut). with old config files old actions are showing only.

you can't find insert fx action nor by command ID, insert Fx/vst Action, or custom search by shortcut. when searching by shortcut popup error appiers: "Shortcut Defined, but Command not found".



i have tried full clean (wiped) installs (0808, 0812) both, with and without my old config files.

in clean install there is no insert fx/vst action at all. none of them, when trieng to create new shortcut.

do i miss something? is there any other way to add fx into action list?

[PitchSlap]

The thing thats bugging me about the default selection change is editing envelopes.

I'm used to making a time selection and using the slider on the envelope lane to adjust the selected section.

Now it creates an area selection, but that's ignored by the slider, and when using the modifier for the old behavior now creates an automation item, which also isn't impacted by the slider.

To do the same simple task requires selecting an empty area of a track which is cumbersome with multiple automation lanes, or at a high zoom.

The modifier for a normal time selection also doesn't work over an item because it affects the item (slip).



If the area selection worked the same as time selection when adjusting a track's automation slider it would be much more intuitive for me.

This is what I'm trying to do, and how much easier it used to be (no modifer keys needed):

[deeb]

Please be coherent . Workflow is not good with exception and too much conditionals. Extending should be able to happen with items or envelopes. Otherwise is spaguetti. Please consider the root problem and not trying to find workaround and giving us more complexity. I have to assume this is your plan: go into this complexity direction because we have no Information otherwise.

[Win Conway]

Originally Posted by Koka

+ FX shortcuts: allow more than 100 actions, use registered action IDs for new shortcuts to improve portability across systems

The problem remains but is defferent way in 6.13+dev0808 and 6.13+dev0812.

in dev0808 - 0812 after creating shortcut for fx plugin this action is not showing in actions list. for both: keyboard shortcut or only command Id (without keyboard shortcut). with old config files old actions are showing only.

you can't find insert fx action nor by command ID, insert Fx/vst Action, or custom search by shortcut. when searching by shortcut popup error appiers: "Shortcut Defined, but Command not found".



i have tried full clean (wiped) installs (0808, 0812) both, with and without my old config files.

in clean install there is no insert fx/vst action at all. none of them, when trieng to create new shortcut.

do i miss something? is there any other way to add fx into action list?

It only works with JS FX, not sure if it has been reported though.

[jrengmusic]

I believe most of user expect all Time Selection behavior will be implemented to Area Selection. Intuitively we treat Area Selection like a non-linear multiple item/lane/track time selection, which is great workflow improvement coexists with Time Selection.

For examples, adding fade/crossfade, editing envelope segment, adding spectral editing to item, adding stretch markers to item, etc.

[airon]

Originally Posted by RobinGShore

The extend area selection modifier does not work the way I would expect when there isn't an already existing area selection. I would expect it to create a new selection that extends from the edit cursor to the far edge of the item that I click on (similar to using"extend time selection" when no time selection exists). Instead it makes a selection that encompasses only the item, but not the area between item and cursor.

Also, extend area selection should be available in the track left click modifiers as well. No reason for it to only work on items.

I agree because it‘s fast to left click to position, then use extend area selection(shift left click for example) to mark the end of the area selection. You can hold the second mouse click and let go to place.

The problem of course is that Reaper does not use area selection by default and may not realize the area selection should start at the first click.

Thus the first starter click needs to be an area selection one, not a vanilla edit cursor placement click.

Buuuuut, I want the area selection click to position the edit&playhead cursor, create a loop and select the tracks the area selection covers if any.

Maybe that’s all there and I just missed it ?

[Win Conway]

Media Explorer - Tempo Match is broken, it works when you preview, but when you drag n drop the media or double click it loads it on to the track non matched.

[schwa]

Originally Posted by Win Conway

Media Explorer - Tempo Match is broken, it works when you preview, but when you drag n drop the media or double click it loads it on to the track non matched.

Can't reproduce.

[Vagelis]

Originally Posted by RobinGShore

The extend area selection modifier does not work the way I would expect when there isn't an already existing area selection. I would expect it to create a new selection that extends from the edit cursor to the far edge of the item that I click on (similar to using"extend time selection" when no time selection exists). Instead it makes a selection that encompasses only the item, but not the area between item and cursor.

Also, extend area selection should be available in the track left click modifiers as well. No reason for it to only work on items.

This^^

In cubase i can extend the selection where ever i click (items, tracks, envelopes)

Also left click extends AS to the mouse position, while if I hold the same modifier and drag, i can then drag both horizontal and vertical edges at the same time..

[Shootkin]

Originally Posted by jrengmusic

I believe most of user expect all Time Selection behavior will be implemented to Area Selection. Intuitively we treat Area Selection like a non-linear multiple item/lane/track time selection, which is great workflow improvement coexists with Time Selection.

Тotally agree.

[PhelixK]

Area Selection: Envelopes deactivate when pasted.

When dragged as copy to fresh tracks, any visible or hidden envelopes can instantly be reviewed and ready for editing.

If AS is instead copy-pasted, envelopes and AI is included, but suddenly not active.

Here I have to force visibility from inside track envelopes Window, or alternatively, reveal the correct and corresponding lanes which will activate them as well. Same if copying to other project tabs. If not clear what I mean, I can make a screen cap.


Also, a little cosmetic thing,
In situations where single elements are moved inside AS, the borders can sometimes disappear, and stay like this when dragged as a copy. If pasted, the full area outline is always perfectly recreated.

Originally Posted by Vagelis

In cubase i can extend the selection where ever i click (items, tracks, envelopes)

Also left click extends AS to the mouse position, while if I hold the same modifier and drag, i can then drag both horizontal and vertical edges at the same time..

yes that would be very convenient, and also an option to unite coordinates very far apart. If that's not possible, then perhaps an AS corner handle, that will allow to shrink/extend in all directions.

Originally Posted by Win Conway

Media Explorer - Tempo Match is broken..

appears to works fine here (v6.13+dev0812b, macOS)


.

[RobinGShore]

Originally Posted by RobinGShore

...I would expect it to create a new selection that extends from the edit cursor to the far edge of the item that I click on (similar to using"extend time selection" when no time selection exists)

Thinking about this more and extending the selection to the far edge of the item doesn't even seem like the right behaviour. That should be an option certainly, but the more common need would be to extend the selection to the mouse click position (again, the same way that "extend time selection" works).

[schwa]

Just a warning here, there are a number of behavior consistency problems with supporting area selection as a left-mouse-drag modifier, and we may end up reverting this.

[RobinGShore]

Originally Posted by schwa

Just a warning here, there are a number of behavior consistency problems with supporting area selection as a left-mouse-drag modifier, and we may end up reverting this.

Bummer. For what it's worth it's been working great so far for me, and it feels a thousand times more natural than having it on right drag.

[n997]

Originally Posted by RobinGShore

For what it's worth it's been working great so far for me, and it feels a thousand times more natural than having it on right drag.

+1

My solution for making Area-selection-via-left-drag (mostly) consistent is to use it on "Track" and "Media item bottom half". I use it mostly for one-area Area selections. My Marquee selection is on right drag in this configuration.


I hope Area-selection-via-left-drag functionality will remain, especially if Area selection and Marquee selection are to remain separate functions.

[Vagelis]

Originally Posted by schwa

Just a warning here, there are a number of behavior consistency problems with supporting area selection as a left-mouse-drag modifier, and we may end up reverting this.

Oh no, huge bummer! Please keep left drag for AS...
But that's why maybe you should consider tools also? I believe now it's the right time, If not, this will come up all over and over again as more and more left drag modifiers are going to be added in the future and not just for AS...

Being able to change lots of mouse behaviors with an action-(tool), it would help a lot with the consistency, without worrying about the contexts,the number of modifiers,conditions etc...

[Klangfarben]

Originally Posted by schwa

Just a warning here, there are a number of behavior consistency problems with supporting area selection as a left-mouse-drag modifier, and we may end up reverting this.

We'll wait...

[RobinGShore]

Originally Posted by Vagelis

But that's why maybe you should consider tools also?... Being able to change lots of mouse behaviors with an action-(tool), it would help a lot with the consistency, without worrying about the contexts,the number of modifiers,conditions etc...

I feel like the most Reaper-ish solution for this would be to let the user save various mouse modifier profiles that can be switched between via actions.

[deeb]

Originally Posted by RobinGShore

I feel like the most Reaper-ish solution for this would be to let the user save various mouse modifier profiles that can be switched between via actions.

Good native defaults would be a must specially for not so technical users and new users.

[bFooz]

Originally Posted by schwa

Just a warning here, there are a number of behavior consistency problems with supporting area selection as a left-mouse-drag modifier, and we may end up reverting this.

In some others daws, the left drag on the top half of the item is reserved for area selection and the bottom one for moving the item. It is no coincidence that several different softwares have this behaving virtually the same way, it is most probably based on UX user testing with usability-first mindset of designers.

I have it set up like this for a long time when I simulate area selection by marqueing items and creating time selection at the same time.

[Vagelis]

Originally Posted by RobinGShore

I feel like the most Reaper-ish solution for this would be to let the user save various mouse modifier profiles that can be switched between via actions.

That's what i proposed also multiple times... That's what tools are doing in other daws. Since behaviors are getting full, can't think of another way to change fast mouse behaviors.

Then not only we could use all the power they offer by using all of them, but also to limit the number of modifiers for each behavior.

[deeb]

Saving presets for modifiers I am not sure if is so good. Tools should probably be defined by the daw and so the context modifiers sections could be listed for each of the defined tools. Example:
Item context (area selection)
Item context (item selection)
Item context (split)
Etc

So the active modifiers would be those for the current selected tool.

Just food for thought ..

[RobinGShore]

Originally Posted by deeb

Saving presets for modifiers I am not sure if is so good. Tools should probably be defined by the daw and so the context modifiers sections could be listed for each of the defined tools. Example:
Item context (area selection)
Item context (item selection)
Item context (split)
Etc

So the active modifiers would be those for the current selected tool.

Having things defined by the DAW without being able to change them is not really the REAPER way. Being able to save your own modifier presets wouldn't really conflict with what you're asking for, so I'm not sure what the problem would be. Reaper could still come with a default set of pre-configured modifier presets (i.e "tools"), were just suggesting that if they do go in this direction, it would make sense for the user to be able to also define their own tools, given how everything else in the program is customizable

[Vagelis]

Originally Posted by deeb

Saving presets for modifiers I am not sure if is so good. Tools should probably be defined by the daw and so the context modifiers sections could be listed for each of the defined tools. Example:
Item context (area selection)
Item context (item selection)
Item context (split)
Etc

So the active modifiers would be those for the current selected tool.

Just food for thought ..

But loading fast mouse presets is literally what tools are doing in other Daws. The thing is, since Reaper is already a tool-less Daw, i don't think devs would like to change the whole concept imo.
But at least it would be great if they would allow users to customize, by creating their own tools. If devs decide to give us default tools, that's fine, but i don't think so.. I 'd also prefer to use the modifiers i want as a user for each tool, thus where customization would come in handy.

[RobinGShore]

Originally Posted by bFooz

In some others daws, the left drag on the top half of the item is reserved for area selection and the bottom one for moving the item

This is already possible with Reaper's area selection in the lastest builds, so I doubt this would be a solution to whatever inconsistencies Schwa is running into.

[deeb]

Originally Posted by RobinGShore

Having things defined by the DAW without being able to change them is not really the REAPER way. Being able to save your own modifier presets wouldn't really conflict with what you're asking for, so I'm not sure what the problem would be. Reaper could still come with a default set of pre-configured modifier presets (i.e "tools"), were just suggesting that if they do go in this direction, it would make sense for the user to be able to also define their own tools, given how everything else in the program is customizable

I am not saying something is best or worst. it's their decision. Theorically saving presets is very good, but we have no idea how much work it would be and the underlying dots and complexity. Because i don't think it's so simple as it looks, but maybe I am wrong.

Example: probably there are incompatible modifiers with other context modifiers that might be difficult to manage by a presets system.

Only they know tho.

[daniellumertz]

for changing Mmod Presets you could export more than one config, then use the action File: Import configuration...

Maybe an action/script that remembers the path of some config file so you dont need to make more than one click

[bolgwrad]

One functional issue I have with AS by unmodded left-click is that in order to select a block of items from the top track down, it's almost essential to add a new #1 blank track, to give myself initial 'dragging room'. Otherwise I often start dragging the top track item, if there's not much blank arrange view visible, or I'm starting mid-item.

When I use Alt+Right-click for AS (next door to to item select) I'm in no doubt as to what to expect; I don't accidentally move or duplicate an item. Mentally, I'm in 'Area Selection' mode.

And the fact is, I've been using left-drag TS for over a decade without it being the slightest hindrance.

Toggle AS/TS? Now you're talking.

[ferropop]

DEVS: Has ARA (Melodyne) been touched in some way in the last bit?

Working on a major label project with super-high vocal take counts, and a single instance of Melodyne 5 ARA is slowing down the machine to an absolute crawl - like we're talking 3-4 minutes before regaining responsiveness.

Once the machine is usable again, doing literally anything (ie, changing the playhead, saving etc) results in it going back into a deep-freeze.

Maybe it's an absurd number of takes this time, but I've never had anything of this sort happen with Melodyne - and have used it all day every day for years.

Could I send the project to your email?

[ferropop]

Is it the number of splices? I thought Melodyne would only analyze the active take, and on-the-fly analyze if a take is cycled. To justify this amount of slowdown suggests it's analyzing every single tiny piece of this track. Just weird, have never really had an issue.

[daniellumertz]

Originally Posted by ferropop

Is it the number of splices? I thought Melodyne would only analyze the active take, and on-the-fly analyze if a take is cycled. To justify this amount of slowdown suggests it's analyzing every single tiny piece of this track. Just weird, have never really had an issue.

beautiful

[n997]

Originally Posted by bolgwrad

One functional issue I have with AS by unmodded left-click is that in order to select a block of items from the top track down, it's almost essential to add a new #1 blank track, to give myself initial 'dragging room'. Otherwise I often start dragging the top track item, if there's not much blank arrange view visible, or I'm starting mid-item.

This can be solved, to a large extent, by either:

a) enabling "Draw labels above item, rather than within the item" in Appearance/Media and "When drawn above items, treat item label area the same as empty track space" in Editing Behaviour/Mouse modifiers when "Media item" is selected in drop-down list

b) using "Media item/left drag" for Area selection,

c) using "Media item bottom half/left drag" for Area selection



All of those are currently workable but slightly imperfect, because:

a) item label area may contain buttons, which obviously cancel Area selection from area which the buttons cover

b) and c) item edges do not currently have separate contexts for top and bottom halves, making initiating Area selection via left drag from very edges of items impossible.




I suggest following possibilities for improving that:

- for case (a), new setting "Always draw item buttons within item, not label area", thus reserving label area for initiating Area selection

- for cases (b) and (c), new context "Media item bottom half edge/left drag", with Area selection selectable for it as well as "Media item edge/left drag"

- a new setting of "Pixels between top of track and items", which would leave user-set number of pixels above items as track area. This would be similar to "Pixels between items on adjacent tracks", except above items, so that Area selection could be initiated from that space via "Track/left drag"

[Win Conway]

Originally Posted by schwa

Can't reproduce.

EDIT*
Really ?
Doesnt work here at all

*Removed gif, so not to flood the forum
See third post where I worked out the bug.*


That's a perfect loop

[Win Conway]

EDIT*

Even stuff with slices is miles off

*Removed gif, so not to flood the forum
See third post where I worked out the bug.*


Oh wait, yeah preview isnt in sync either, dumb ass, i was testing a folder of files the project tempo lol
So yeah preview and insert is broken here as per the gifs, i can do you tube video if you need audio.

[Win Conway]

@schwa
OK, finally tracked it down, somewhere (And sorry I have only just noticed it, so it could be a good few builds it has been doing this) ACID file meta data has gotten messed up in Reapers media explorer.
Issues found so far....
1 It is not over-riding the 'one shot' tag when tempo match is turned on, so the first gif above somehow has gotten tagged as one shot (Not sure if that has happened in a Reaper build, will keep an eye on that, it wasn't one shot when I rendered it originally, but I had to switch it back to loop in Sound forge)
2 Acid 'Loop' tag is partially being read entirely wrong too, I can send you the exact same file from a pack that is available as Acid 'loop' and RX2, the RX2 loads fine, the Acid 'Loop' loads wrong. (See gif)
Note that I say partially reading Acid 'Loops' wrong, it seems to only effect Acid 'Loops' with markers (Again see gif) that give you the option to load sliced or as single media, with an Acid 'Loop' that is just Tempo/Length/Meter it loads fine.




Also note I having a few issues here with auto stop preview after inserting media, it seems to be a little intermittent.


I know it is not a forum for feature requests, but in the meta tag list, would be good to get direct access to these stupid Acid tags and be able to switch them, I had to run Acid and Sound forge to actually work out what the deal was, not a big issue, but may be worth considering for the tag editing at some point.