Control Surface Integration (CSI) Technical Feature Discussion

[Geoff Waddington]

OK, looks like we might have some funky timing issues.

I finally got one of my Mix units to misbehave the way you folks are seeing.

It is very intermittent, perhaps 1 in 20 times, but I definitely can get this behaviour occasionally now, will attempt to investigate, I say attempt because intermittent bugs are always tricky to track down.

Thanks for persevering folks, we will eventually sort this out...

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by RobinGShore

Update: I was able to get track names to appear by switching the controller to insert mode and then switching it back to aux or pan mode. If I restart reaper or Eucontrol the track names sometime disappear again and I have to repeat the same mode switch trick to get them back.

Ok, that is good to a point, wondering if this is also a timing thing ?

Restarting reaper made the meters show up. They are "working" now in the sense that I can see them moving when there's signal on a track, but they are not behaving the way I would expect. The meters show a single channel regardless of how many channels the track has in Reaper. I'm also not sure what this single channel of metering represents? If I have any panning on a track the meters will show less signal depending on how far left or right it's panned. Panning hard left or right will make the meter show no signal at all

Yeah, meters are a work in progress...

[RobinGShore]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

OK, looks like we might have some funky timing issues.

I finally got one of my Mix units to misbehave the way you folks are seeing.

It is very intermittent, perhaps 1 in 20 times, but I definitely can get this behaviour occasionally now, will attempt to investigate, I say attempt because intermittent bugs are always tricky to track down.

Thanks for persevering folks, we will eventually sort this out...

Did you try with the knobs or just the faders? The bug is intermittent for me as well when using faders, but it happens consistently when using the knobs. It also happens consistently with the touchscreen faders on the eucon app for ios/android (if you don't have the eucon app already I would recommend getting it at least for testing purposes, it's free and works on any ios or android device. It will show you a lot more eucon feedback/features then you'll get on just the artist mix)

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by RobinGShore

Did you try with the knobs or just the faders? The bug is intermittent for me as well when using faders, but it happens consistently when using the knobs. It also happens consistently with the touchscreen faders on the eucon app for ios/android (if you don't have the eucon app already I would recommend getting it at least for testing purposes, it's free and works on any ios or android device. It will show you a lot more eucon feedback/features then you'll get on just the artist mix)

The knobs on my Mix units are pretty much unusable now, they barely do anything, thanks for the tip on the iOS app, will get that for testing.

So is this maybe a EuControl issue that gets exposed by CSI ?

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Yes, known issue, but thanks for reminding me.

Cheers

One thing that crossed my mind (short trip), is there a way that the FXMenu could appear on the display of one surface, but have the selected slot FX parameters map to another surface?

My reasoning is that most people have at least one surface with a display and supplement that with another surface (MIDI Fighter Twister etc).

I wondered if peeps could select the FX to map from a visible menu on the surface with displays and have the parameters map to the second surface, avoiding the somewhat unreliable FocusedFXNavigator.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Cheers

One thing that crossed my mind (short trip), is there a way that the FXMenu could appear on the display of one surface, but have the selected slot FX parameters map to another surface?

My reasoning is that most people have at least one surface with a display and supplement that with another surface (MIDI Fighter Twister etc).

I wondered if peeps could select the FX to map from a visible menu on the surface with displays and have the parameters map to the second surface, avoiding the somewhat unreliable FocusedFXNavigator.

Well, working on making FocusedFXNavigator better, but that is a great feature request !

[RobinGShore]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

So is this maybe a EuControl issue that gets exposed by CSI ?

Perhaps. I don't know though, the bug does seem to be specific to CSI. I've never had this problem using your old pre-CSI Eucon extension, or using Eucon with Pro Tools

[Geoff Waddington]

In a ranting mood, so here are some observations:

If you watch this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byqW...ature=youtu.be you see that even though the promise of OSC is modern network speed, at least on my system using WiFi, the OSC implementation has way more latency than the Midi stuff.

We are currently working through some EuCon issues -- seems like we are always working through EuCon issues

Midi for the win -- class compliant devices -- no driver or software installation -- speed that equals EuCon and exceeds OSC WiFi.

Just my 2c on a frustrating evening

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by RobinGShore

Perhaps. I don't know though, the bug does seem to be specific to CSI. I've never had this problem using your old pre-CSI Eucon extension, or using Eucon with Pro Tools

What if you use the old driver for EuCon, are there things missing that you need ?

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

If you watch this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byqW...ature=youtu.be you see that even though the promise of OSC is modern network speed, at least on my system using WiFi, the OSC implementation has way more latency than the Midi stuff.

Regarding OSC, now I've had a chance to mess around with it and get a reasonably complex implemenation together, the thing that made the single biggest difference to the WiFi 'bottlenecking' was to disable WMM (WiFi MultiMedia) in my router.

WMM prioritises AV traffic over anything else and disabling it seems to improve things, even when other parts of the houshold aren't binge watching the 'Gilmore Girls'.

When they are, it's essential to have it disabled and as the buffers on devices are quite large these days, my pesky OSC interruptions seem to make no difference to the videa feed at all.

Of course, none of this pissing about would be neccessary if OSC worked over USB, but I'm not prepared to go the jailbreak route to make that happen.

Aside from all that bollocks, if you've got a few minutes, Geoff and want a smile you could give this a listen:

https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/pro...st-episode-442

It's titled "Are Control Surfaces Rubbish For Plugins?" and if you listen carefully you can hear how CSI's plugin implementation is much better than any discussed and actually has already solved many of the perceived shortcomings when using control surfaces to control plugins

[RobinGShore]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

What if you use the old driver for EuCon, are there things missing that you need ?

If by old driver you're referring to your pre-CSI extension from 2013, then yeah I'm still using that one as my everyday ride, as the bugs in the CSI version of eucon make it no go for me when it comes to doing actual work. Most things in the old extension work pretty well, but I'm interested in seeing things progress with eucon + CSI because, as you well know, your old extension can make Reaper get pretty sluggish when doing certain tasks. There's also some great features that have been added to eucon since your old extension was made, mostly in the way of visual feedback (track colors, gain reduction meters, eq and pan graphs, waveform display etc.) that I was hopeful could get integrated into CSI someday, now that eucon in Reaper was being looked at again, though I do realize there are lots of other things that are probably higher on the priority list for CSI.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by RobinGShore

If by old driver you're referring to your pre-CSI extension from 2013, then yeah I'm still using that one as my everyday ride, as the bugs in the CSI version of eucon make it no go for me when it comes to doing actual work. Most things in the old extension work pretty well, but I'm interested in seeing things progress with eucon + CSI because, as you well know, your old extension can make Reaper get pretty sluggish when doing certain tasks. There's also some great features that have been added to eucon since your old extension was made, mostly in the way of visual feedback (track colors, gain reduction meters, eq and pan graphs, waveform display etc.) that I was hopeful could get integrated into CSI someday, now that eucon in Reaper was being looked at again, though I do realize there are lots of other things that are probably higher on the priority list for CSI.

Yes, i meant the old extension.

The very things that make the old extension sluggish also make it stable, my fear is that this bug in automation means we will be back into the same game in CSI, trading performance for stability.

To be honest, I was not aware of the new features you point out, and was never actually planning to implement them in CSI.

A tremendous amount of resources must be put into CSI for EuCon support vs Midi/ OSC support.

For instance there are about 70 lines of code specific to Midi surface support and about 70 lines of code specific to OSC surface support.

For EuCon there are about 500 lines in CSI and probably another 1000 or so in the new EuCon dll/dylib, it's not a trivial difference.

Just wondering if going back to the old way of having EuCon separate from CSI is the better way to go overall, just rethinking out loud...

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Yes, i meant the old extension.

The very things that make the old extension sluggish also make it stable, my fear is that this bug in automation means we will be back into the same game in CSI, trading performance for stability.

To be honest, I was not aware of the new features you point out, and was never actually planning to implement them in CSI.

A tremendous amount of resources must be put into CSI for EuCon support vs Midi/ OSC support.

For instance there are about 70 lines of code specific to Midi surface support and about 70 lines of code specific to OSC surface support.

For EuCon there are about 500 lines in CSI and probably another 1000 or so in the new EuCon dll/dylib, it's not a trivial difference.

Just wondering if going back to the old way of having EuCon separate from CSI is the better way to go overall, just rethinking out loud...

You said it yourself:

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Midi for the win -- class compliant devices -- no driver or software installation -- speed that equals EuCon and exceeds OSC WiFi.

Also, it might be better to separate them because, unlike MIDI or OSC, Eucon isn't an open standard, it's IP owned by a large corporaton.

[Nick Morris]

I am happily using the prior csi build. From early may. For me- it’s very close to finished for my needs. I use eucon from the same time and love how it works inside csi. I would be absolutely gutted if I lost it or the development of refining eucon further in csi because it wasn’t still part of it, but separate.

If it can and will still be developed along side it and be as snappy and great, by all means do whatever.

Just don’t step backwards

[cjewellstudios]

I do believe these things were mentioned but just in case:

- The "Toggle+" modifier doesn't seem to be working in my fx zones anymore. I can bypass my fx but I cannot unbypass them.

- If I have one mapped plugin focused and open, clicking on another mapped plugin (the fx slot) will open the new plugin and close anything else that was mapped and floating. So CSI only allows you to see one mapped plugin. In the old build this logic wasn't there, I prefer that. I remember having a few mapped plugins up on the screen and switching between them in the old build and that worked really well.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Nick Morris

I am happily using the prior csi build. From early may. For me- it’s very close to finished for my needs. I use eucon from the same time and love how it works inside csi. I would be absolutely gutted if I lost it or the development of refining eucon further in csi because it wasn’t still part of it, but separate.

If it can and will still be developed along side it and be as snappy and great, by all means do whatever.

Just don’t step backwards

The only problem is that the automation bug is in the early May builds too.

Any bug that is intermittent implies some kind of timing/latency/whatever issue.

I doubt that any further refinement/development of EuCon is worth all of the extra effort compared the other two -- Midi and OSC.

There is also the issue of having to have the proprietary EuControl software installed.

That implies that if/when it is changed there may be CSI work necessary just to keep the support level where it is right now.

Midi and OSC require zero software to be installed, so there are no such issues.

To be blunt the whole EuCon/Avid thing is a PITA

Not sure as to the best way forward:

1) Dedicate resources to EuCon support that would steal time away from support for Midi / OSC.

2) Go back to a separate EuCon implementation and dedicate the resources to the majority of users who use OSC / Midi.

Too bad EuCon wasn't open source, I would certainly be happy and willing to allow someone else to develop for EuCon, but it is proprietary and myself/Cockos are bound by NDAs, so that isn't possible. It's really an Avid issue at play here.

Pondering...

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by cjewellstudios

I do believe these things were mentioned but just in case:

- The "Toggle+" modifier doesn't seem to be working in my fx zones anymore. I can bypass my fx but I cannot unbypass them.

- If I have one mapped plugin focused and open, clicking on another mapped plugin (the fx slot) will open the new plugin and close anything else that was mapped and floating. So CSI only allows you to see one mapped plugin. In the old build this logic wasn't there, I prefer that. I remember having a few mapped plugins up on the screen and switching between them in the old build and that worked really well.

Yeah, something seems to have changed with Focused plugins, will investigate.

Will also check into Toggle.

[RobinGShore]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Just wondering if going back to the old way of having EuCon separate from CSI is the better way to go overall, just rethinking out loud...

Would this mean that any further development and maintenance of Eucon would be halted again? That would be a little disappointing. The old extension is pretty good overall, but even if you ignore the sluggishness, it does have it's fair share of annoying quirks. I've come across plenty of bugs with it over the past few years that I never bothered reporting since it was clear that development had stopped.

[Geoff Waddington]

@MixMonkey, could you please post your latest MCU .mst and .zon files, I want to do some experimentation with the EuCon in MCU Midi mode.

[kevrose]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Looks ok. Here's the sheet I used, the raw fx file you provided and the .zon I created with them:

Hi MixMonkey. Thanks for your help, really trying to get this to work.

I've installed Excel and updated it on a different machine. Same issue.

This is what I do:

Open Excel doc, enable macros.
Change username to my home directory name.
Open .txt file (the file is in ZoneRawFXFiles).
Assign functions to encoders.
Select 'Create Zone'.

[EDIT: I only work within the Input sheet]

Am I missing anything out here?

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

@MixMonkey, could you please post your latest MCU .mst and .zon files, I want to do some experimentation with the EuCon in MCU Midi mode.

Sure The Pan and PanWidth Zones are commented out whilst I try and track down why I lose my lower MCU display when they're enabled.

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by kevrose

Hi MixMonkey. Thanks for your help, really trying to get this to work.

I've installed Excel and updated it on a different machine. Same issue.

This is what I do:

Open Excel doc, enable macros.
Change username to my home directory name.
Open .txt file (the file is in ZoneRawFXFiles).
Assign functions to encoders.
Select 'Create Zone'.

[EDIT: I only work within the Input sheet]

Am I missing anything out here?

Sorry this isn't working smoothly for you. I can't see that you're doing anything wrong. It's correct to only be working in the input sheet (the others should be hidden anyway)

The only reason I can think of is that the username is wrong, but could you post the error message you get again please.

To be clear, the username isn't the home directory name on your destination, Reaper machine, but the username of the home directory of the machine you're running Excel on.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Sure The Pan and PanWidth Zones are commented out whilst I try and track down why I lose my lower MCU display when they're enabled.

Thanks.

Verified that this bug also exists when EuCon is set to Mackie mode.

Could I trouble you to try it on your "real" MCU.

Steps:

Put a track into Touch mode.

Pull the fader down to -inf.

Release the fader, it should jump back up to match the envelope.

Touch the fader.

Does the envelope jump down to the bottom or does it stay put until you move the fader ?

You might have to try this a few times.

[Funkybot]

Is the Touch Mode automation issue the big one that's driving the thought around ripping out EuCon at the moment? If so, maybe it's best to just hit pause on Eucon for now and focus the development on improving other areas.

Maybe go "1.0" on the MIDI/OSC side of the house and keep the Eucon implementation in beta due to these known issues until a later date. There's no reason an Artist Mix shouldn't work with MCU modes for simple tasks (minus some fader resolution) but I do think that some of the other surfaces or Avid Control Users might suffer more than I might if that were the only option. As someone who doens't use Touch automation much, the occasional glitch there isn't a deal-breaker. Even Cubase, which "officially supports Eucon," has had it's fair share of Eucon issues for years (track visibility being the most annoying).

Just my perspective on things. I'd hate to see Eucon disappear entirely, but would be 100% ok if other development was pursued and made more mature for Eucon to maybe get addressed on some later date. But if Eucon does end up going, I mean, there's still the old adapter and MCU options. I know you've put a ton of time into the development of this and I want to respect your choice on how to move forward, whatever you do.

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Thanks.

Verified that this bug also exists when EuCon is set to Mackie mode.

Could I trouble you to try it on your "real" MCU.

Steps:

Put a track into Touch mode.

Pull the fader down to -inf.

Release the fader, it should jump back up to match the envelope.

Touch the fader.

Does the envelope jump down to the bottom or does it stay put until you move the fader ?

You might have to try this a few times.

Just tried with my X-Touch One using the regular "TrackNavigator" and could not reproduce the issue at all. Seems to work with MIDI, just not with Eucon.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Is the Touch Mode automation issue the big one that's driving the thought around ripping out EuCon at the moment? If so, maybe it's best to just hit pause on Eucon for now and focus the development on improving other areas.

Maybe go "1.0" on the MIDI/OSC side of the house and keep the Eucon implementation in beta due to these known issues until a later date. There's no reason an Artist Mix shouldn't work with MCU modes for simple tasks (minus some fader resolution) but I do think that some of the other surfaces or Avid Control Users might suffer more than I might if that were the only option. As someone who doens't use Touch automation much, the occasional glitch there isn't a deal-breaker. Even Cubase, which "officially supports Eucon," has had it's fair share of Eucon issues for years (track visibility being the most annoying).

Just my perspective on things. I'd hate to see Eucon disappear entirely, but would be 100% ok if other development was pursued and made more mature for Eucon to maybe get addressed on some later date. But if Eucon does end up going, I mean, there's still the old adapter and MCU options. I know you've put a ton of time into the development of this and I want to respect your choice on how to move forward, whatever you do.

I was just having a bad day yesterday, don't have them often, but occasionally...

Now just trying to isolate where this bug occurs.

Since it happens with both EuCon native and EuCon Mackie it might indeed be CSI or Reaper or some interaction between, just trying to isolate the cause.

To that end you, or anyone else that has a Midi based Fader unit with touch, could you try the steps indicated in the post to @MixMonkey (might have to try a few times) and report what happens -- thanks

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Just tried with my X-Touch One using the regular "TrackNavigator" and could not reproduce the issue at all. Seems to work with MIDI, just not with Eucon.

Ahhh, the old cross post

Thanks, could it be a bug in the EuCon software ?

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Ahhh, the old cross post

Thanks, could it be a bug in the EuCon software ?

Let me go walk the dog and try in Cubase (my only other Eucon host). Will post back shortly.

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Thanks.

Verified that this bug also exists when EuCon is set to Mackie mode.

Could I trouble you to try it on your "real" MCU.

Steps:

Put a track into Touch mode.

Pull the fader down to -inf.

Release the fader, it should jump back up to match the envelope.

Touch the fader.

Does the envelope jump down to the bottom or does it stay put until you move the fader ?

You might have to try this a few times.

Damned if I can get it to mis-behave here. Repeated the procedure 20 times over a two minute period, worked normally.

[kevrose]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Sorry this isn't working smoothly for you. I can't see that you're doing anything wrong. It's correct to only be working in the input sheet (the others should be hidden anyway)

The only reason I can think of is that the username is wrong, but could you post the error message you get again please.

To be clear, the username isn't the home directory name on your destination, Reaper machine, but the username of the home directory of the machine you're running Excel on.

All the home directories on my Macs have the same username, so shouldn't be that.

Here's the error:

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Ahhh, the old cross post

Thanks, could it be a bug in the EuCon software ?

Hard to tell...in Cubase, it turns out Touch mode automation is broken. It does not return to the initial value at all unless you first add an automation point at the end of your track, which is clearly a bug. That said, after doing that, I was able to draw Touch automation in Cubase with the Artist Mix without seeing that bug. So I don't think it's in Eucon itself. Maybe someone with Pro Tools can test there and confirm.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Hard to tell...in Cubase, it turns out Touch mode automation is broken. It does not return to the initial value at all unless you first add an automation point at the end of your track, which is clearly a bug. That said, after doing that, I was able to draw Touch automation in Cubase with the Artist Mix without seeing that bug. So I don't think it's in Eucon itself. Maybe someone with Pro Tools can test there and confirm.

Hmmm...

I expect that in PT, they have worked around it, they have access to EuControl source

I don't know that it eliminates EuCon, given the following:

It does not occur in the old EuCon Reaper extension.

It occurs with CSI in EuCon native mode.

It occurs with CSI in EuCon Mackie mode.

It does not occur with CSI when you test with X-Touch One.

It does not occur with CSI when @MixMonkey tests with an MCU.

The fact that it is intermittent is troubling

[RobinGShore]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

The fact that it is intermittent is troubling

A thought about the intermittency. As I noted earlier, the bug is only intermittent when using the physical faders, if you use the touchscreen faders on the app, or use the knob it happens with pretty much 100% consistency. This makes me think the bug itself isn't actually intermittent, but that there's some weirdness with the faders that make it seem intermittent. The bug only happens when the fader is touched without moving it, as soon as the fader moves the errant envelope value gets corrected. I have noticed in the past that just touching the faders on a eucon surface without moving them often causes a very slight change in value (for instance touching a fader that's at 0db can sometimes make the value to jump to .06db). I'm wondering if this small value change with the faders is masking the bug from presenting itself consistently.

Not sure if that will help illuminate anything, just a thought.

[Cragster]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Cheers

One thing that crossed my mind (short trip), is there a way that the FXMenu could appear on the display of one surface, but have the selected slot FX parameters map to another surface?

My reasoning is that most people have at least one surface with a display and supplement that with another surface (MIDI Fighter Twister etc).

I wondered if peeps could select the FX to map from a visible menu on the surface with displays and have the parameters map to the second surface, avoiding the somewhat unreliable FocusedFXNavigator.

Me too on this !!!!! This would be great

[Funkybot]

Geoff, justcurious: did they give you a Eucon SDK (or anything else required for development) back in the day and is that all up to date?

I tested with EuControl 20.1 and 20.6 both yesterday (they seem to release updates pretty regularly).

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by kevrose

All the home directories on my Macs have the same username, so shouldn't be that.

Here's the error:

Ok, so it's not the username. I put a bogus username into my sheet and couldn't even load a raw FX file.

I'll keep looking.

[Funkybot]

One more Eucon issue:

It's no longer working when on a second page. So if I create two CSI pages, "Home" and "Mix," where Home does not include Eucon, but Mix does, then Eucon faders, pans, track displays will not initialize when I go to that second "Mix page." The channel meters move in Eucon, which is interesting, but nothing else is working.

Here's my CSI.ini just so you can see what I'm doing...

Page "Home" FollowTCP NoSynchPages NoScrollLink NoTrackColoring { 0 0 0 }
MidiSurface "X-Touch One" 6 8 "X-Touch_One.mst" "X-Touch_One_Standard" 1 0 0 0 
MidiSurface "MIDI Fighter Twister" 19 21 "MIDIFighterTwisterEncoder.mst" "MFTwisterNoChannels" 0 0 0 0 
MidiSurface "CMC-QC" 9 11 "Stienberg_CMC-QC-2.mst" "CMC-QC-2" 0 0 0 0 

Page "Mix" FollowTCP NoSynchPages NoScrollLink NoTrackColoring { 0 0 0 }
MidiSurface "MIDI Fighter Twister" 19 21 "MIDIFighterTwisterEncoder.mst" "MFTwisterNoChannels" 0 8 0 0 
EuConSurface "EuCon" "EuCon" 8 8 8 2 
MidiSurface "CMC-QC" 9 11 "Stienberg_CMC-QC-2.mst" "CMC-QC-2" 0 0 0 0 
MidiSurface "X-Touch One Selected" 6 8 "X-Touch_One.mst" "X-Touch_One_SelectedTrack" 0 0 0 0

[MixMonkey]

Ok, here's what I get.

If I open the sheet you zipped up a while back and immediately hit 'Create Zone' I get the same error message as you.

So, I change the username to mine. Hit 'Create Zone'. Same error message.

Located the raw FX file you posted and put it in CSI/Zones/ZoneRawFXFiles. Hit 'Open Raw FX'. Nothing changes on screen. Hit 'Create Zone'. 'Zone Created' box comes up and Zone file is found in CSI/Zones/ZoneFXFiles.

All the above is expected behaviour.

EDIT: Just for clarity, I cleared the error messages by clicking "End".

EDIT#2 Maybe move the parameters in sections B and C down one row, so they're in 'Rotary' not 'Push'.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by RobinGShore

A thought about the intermittency. As I noted earlier, the bug is only intermittent when using the physical faders, if you use the touchscreen faders on the app, or use the knob it happens with pretty much 100% consistency. This makes me think the bug itself isn't actually intermittent, but that there's some weirdness with the faders that make it seem intermittent. The bug only happens when the fader is touched without moving it, as soon as the fader moves the errant envelope value gets corrected. I have noticed in the past that just touching the faders on a eucon surface without moving them often causes a very slight change in value (for instance touching a fader that's at 0db can sometimes make the value to jump to .06db). I'm wondering if this small value change with the faders is masking the bug from presenting itself consistently.

Not sure if that will help illuminate anything, just a thought.

Thanks, that is a good thought.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Geoff, justcurious: did they give you a Eucon SDK (or anything else required for development) back in the day and is that all up to date?

I tested with EuControl 20.1 and 20.6 both yesterday (they seem to release updates pretty regularly).

Yes I'm on 19.9.1 SDK, don't know if there is a newer one, but that's pretty close