Old 01-06-2016, 02:48 PM   #1
Airal
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Default APCKeys25

So I just got this unit and when I plugged it in, no lights! I knew something was up!

It seems this unit only *works* with ableton live 9+. Surely this is a joke or mistake on AKAI's part?

The "APC Key 25 is class compliant". I was able to get midi from reaper since it acts as a midi controller. It seems buttons also send midi messages and such. Using the midi logger shows every key works fine and sends some midi message.

I have some issues:

1. I'd rather not use midi if possible

2. The lights do not function. I assume because a return message has to be sent to control the led's. Probably no a hard fix but would require some reaper setup(I guess a single track listening on the port and a js script could filter the messages and such... seems like a pain)

3. I'd like to control multiple apps with this device. Since I can't seem to share midi ports between programs, this is a problem. I could have reaper bounce the data to a virtual port and that would probably work though... still a bit of a pain.

4. I have used Mackie control klinke and it turned on a light! So something sort of works. I guess it's knowing the protocol they used and all that.

Anyways, I'd like to get this device to work properly. Any ideas?

I'll continue to play around but I'm sure someone can shine some light. (I'd ask the question "Why are companies created devices and binding them to specific apps when the device itself has no specific need for this? Seems like a bad business choice: e.g.,

Supported products:
Ableton live

or

Supported products:
Ableton live
Reaper
Protools
Presonous Studio One
etc...
)
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Old 01-07-2016, 01:40 AM   #2
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Surely you must be joking?

You bought a MIDI controller designed by AKAI and Ableton for launching Ableton Live clips named Ableton Performance Controller, but you wonder why REAPER doesn't have inbuilt support for it, and you don't want to use MIDI?
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Old 01-07-2016, 03:18 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noise_construct View Post
Surely you must be joking?

You bought a MIDI controller designed by AKAI and Ableton for launching Ableton Live clips named Ableton Performance Controller, but you wonder why REAPER doesn't have inbuilt support for it, and you don't want to use MIDI?
You took all that time out to write a message that has absolutely no use except to incite? Also, thanks for putting word in my mouth. I never said anything about *inbuilt* support.
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Old 01-07-2016, 04:15 AM   #4
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Listen, it took only a ten seconds, much less than your useless rant about an product designed specifically for another DAW with functionality that doesn't even exist in REAPER. The button grid is for Live's Session view.

But like you noticed, it is a class-compliant MIDI device that sends MIDI data, and the keys and knobs work just like any controller. You can also configure REAPER to respond to the grid buttons as well , but none of the involved companies have bothered to make any preconfigured setups because REAPER doesn't have a Session view.
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Old 01-07-2016, 11:49 AM   #5
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I reported the obscene private message you sent me, if you can't restrain from sending people such naive outbursts, stay out of the internet thank you very much.

Here's an extension for REAPER that emulates Session View, and reportedly works with APC units. http://www.helgoboss.org/projects/playtime/
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Old 01-07-2016, 01:41 PM   #6
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[noise_construct, just ignore this post, I don't want you to get offended by something I said]

Quite a bit of documentation is found at:

http://www.akaipro.com/apc40map

http://6be54c364949b623a3c0-4409a68c...ocol_rev_1.pdf

should be similar for the 25.

The real issue is that the APC25Keys doesn't seem to initialize in reaper. Reason and Sibelius find and use the keyboard properly from the get go(midi wise), but no midi in reaper until I use those programs first.

It seems like it will work but probably is going to require writing a csurf plugin. Since the protocol seems to be only midi over USB, I'm stuck with using midi, not a big deal. It will require a little work since I'll want to control multiple programs(Keys for sibelius or reason, say, and knobs for reaper)... I think I can just bounce the midi data around to accomplish this.
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Old 01-07-2016, 03:59 PM   #7
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This isn't something as daft as needing to configure it for control in the MIDI devices section, is it?

Nah - didnt think so....
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Old 01-09-2016, 03:55 AM   #8
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Got everything working in a win32 custom app. Still doesn't work with reaper though.
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Old 09-02-2016, 04:19 PM   #9
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Gotta chime in here as I was confused for a bit, myself...

Yeah. This thing will not transmit MIDI notes via the black and white keys. However, it DOES transmit notes on the Scene Launch buttons.

Also, this thing works great with the Playtime VST (the Ableton-style clip-launcher for Reaper). As long as you specify that it's an "APC40" in the Playtime settings (Connected Controller)... you get visual feedback from the scene launch buttons... green, red, amber.

Pretty dope. But yeah... for controlling basic synths? Not the way to go. But for Playtime, it's perfect.
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Old 09-04-2016, 04:35 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themixtape View Post
Gotta chime in here as I was confused for a bit, myself...

Yeah. This thing will not transmit MIDI notes via the black and white keys. However, it DOES transmit notes on the Scene Launch buttons.

Also, this thing works great with the Playtime VST (the Ableton-style clip-launcher for Reaper). As long as you specify that it's an "APC40" in the Playtime settings (Connected Controller)... you get visual feedback from the scene launch buttons... green, red, amber.

Pretty dope. But yeah... for controlling basic synths? Not the way to go. But for Playtime, it's perfect.
I don't know, I got it working fine. I can use it to control synths and any midi stuff. I created a custom control surface and added the init code and it works fine.

I don't remember now what I did exactly, but there is an initialization sequence that must be ran to get the device to work.

After screwing with it I never had problems with it by just selecting the midi port. I don't recall having to init it or anything. I don't know if the init code is even being run any more. It just seemed to start working after I got it to work

Code:
					// Query Device Info
					{
						unsigned char x[] = { 0xF0, 0x7E, 0x00, 0x06, 0x01, 0xF7 };
						CopyMemory(MidiOutHeader->lpData, x, sizeof(x));
						MidiOutHeader->dwBufferLength = sizeof(x);
						MidiOutHeader->dwFlags = 0;


						if ((err = midiOutPrepareHeader(LastMidiOutHandle, MidiOutHeader, sizeof(MIDIHDR))) || (err = midiOutLongMsg(LastMidiOutHandle, MidiOutHeader, sizeof(MIDIHDR)) != MMSYSERR_NOERROR))
						{
							_stprintf(buf1, _T("Error Initializing Device! (%s)"), MMSYSTEM_Error_Format(err, buf2));
							SendDlgItemMessage(hDlg, IDC_MIDI_IN_LB, LB_ADDSTRING, 0, (LPARAM)buf1);	
							return TRUE;
						}
					}

					// Initialize
					{
						unsigned char x[] = { 0xF0, 0x47, 0x73, 0x60, 0x00, 0x04, 0x42, 0x10, 0x10, 0x0, 0xF7 };
						CopyMemory(MidiOutHeader->lpData, x, sizeof(x));
						MidiOutHeader->dwBufferLength = sizeof(x);
						MidiOutHeader->dwFlags = 0;


						if ((err = midiOutPrepareHeader(LastMidiOutHandle, MidiOutHeader, sizeof(MIDIHDR))) || (err = midiOutLongMsg(LastMidiOutHandle, MidiOutHeader, sizeof(MIDIHDR)) != MMSYSERR_NOERROR))
						{
							_stprintf(buf1, _T("Error Initializing Device! (%s)"), MMSYSTEM_Error_Format(err, buf2));
							SendDlgItemMessage(hDlg, IDC_MIDI_IN_LB, LB_ADDSTRING, 0, (LPARAM)buf1);	
							return TRUE;
						}
					}
The only thing that doesn't work is the lights. You have to turn on the LED's and this requires feedback from reaper. I basically quit screwing with it after this point because it was working as much as I needed it. Also, basically it has the same protocol as the APCKey40. I found some programming doc for it and used that and it worked.

I've attached the dll I use(you'll have to trust me or not as far as viruses). It's incomplete but might help you get it to work for you.

You'll have to put it in the plugins dir and add it as a CS then enable the APC midi port and all that like any normal midi device. You might need to init the device and such and I think you have to disable the port in reaper first so it shows up on the control surface. You might need to play around. Essentially you should be able to get data out of the device and see it in the dialog box at some point(after initing or testing)
Attached Files
File Type: zip reaper_APCKeys25.zip (611.3 KB, 333 views)

Last edited by Airal; 09-04-2016 at 04:53 PM.
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Old 05-31-2021, 10:14 PM   #11
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Necro thread revisiting!

I have the APC Key 25 again as it was on sale dirt cheap...

The buttons for the Clips DO transmit midi notes (on Channel 1), chromatically (bottom left to top right). Note 0 to Note 39.

The keybed transmits on Midi Channel 2, and it does send MIDI notes.

Kind of a pain in the ass, but it's a decent controller. The only thing I hate about it is that the keybed is INCREDIBLY spongy/resistant. They didn't really get it right until maybe the MPK Mini MK3.

Just a heads-up-- it's a nice controller with a lot of useful stuff, though! For Ableton, it shines... it's the ONLY thing out there that has a Session grid PLUS keys.

In my humble opinion though, I think you can get more mileage from a separate 25-key controller (such as the MPK Mini MK3 or Novation Launchkey Mini MK3), paired with a Launchpad Mini MK3. Sure, it's over $200... but you get an 8x8 grid, velocity-sensitive drumpads, and a decent keybed, and custom modes as you need them.

Can't use a Custom map with the APC Key 25... (I'm all about the custom MIDI mappings).
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