Old 05-28-2021, 04:12 PM   #1
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Default v6.29+dev0528 - May 28 2021

v6.29+dev0528 - May 28 2021
  • * Includes feature branch: render normalization
  • * Includes feature branch: MIDI editor note reordering
  • * Includes feature branch: EEL2 x86_64/SSE
  • * Includes feature branch: VST3 bridging
  • * Includes feature branch: media item lanes
  • + Actions: add action to calculate loudness of selected items via dry-run render
  • + JSFX: improve LUFS loudness calculation
  • + JSFX: improve LUFS meter display when embedded
  • + ReaTune: enable TCP/MCP embed view for tuner
  • # JSFX: add separate momentary RMS measurement to loudness meter
  • # JSFX: improve LUFS meter scaling
  • # Render: fix normalizing selected media items or multiple time regions per track
  • # Render: fix saving normalization settings to render presets
  • # Render: improve LUFS loudness calculation
  • # Render: potentially improve precision of normalization slightly
This thread is for pre-release features discussion. Use the Feature Requests forum for other requests.

Changelog - Pre-Releases

Generated by X-Raym's REAPER ChangeLog to BBCode
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Old 05-28-2021, 04:17 PM   #2
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[*]+ ReaTune: enable TCP/MCP embed view for tuner
YESSSSS
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Old 05-28-2021, 05:19 PM   #3
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[*]+ ReaTune: enable TCP/MCP embed view for tuner
YESSSSS
It seems amazing. What is it?
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Old 05-28-2021, 05:20 PM   #4
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[*]+ ReaTune: enable TCP/MCP embed view for tuner
YESSSSS
YESSSSSS!!!
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Old 05-28-2021, 05:26 PM   #5
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Ran a bunch of tests, stereo and 5.1 material.

Stereo material all matches SWS Loudness scans, Youlean Loudness Meter 2 and Nugen LMCorrect. Maximum deviation in 3 of 17 files was 0.1 dB. Perfect.

5.1 is a different story. SWS Loudness doesn't do well on those.
Youlean Loudness Meter 2 and LMCorrect are consistent, but Reaper does not match these.

90 minute film, deviation -1.7 dB
120 minute film , deviation -1.4 dB
90 second trailer, deviation -4.2 dB

It might be the way the LFE channel is handled, which on ITU material is the fourth channel in a file/track.
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Old 05-28-2021, 06:06 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by ovnis View Post
It seems amazing. What is it?
If you have the option to show FX Param in the TCP or Mixer when space permits, and space permits, then you load a Reatune instance, you'll see an embedded ReaTune GUI in said location.
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Old 05-28-2021, 07:04 PM   #7
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It seems amazing. What is it?
it's going to save the world incalculable man-hours of hunt and click time. THANK YOU DEVS!!!
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Old 05-28-2021, 10:08 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
you'll see an embedded ReaTune GUI in said location.
That's awesome! If there are continuing resources heading in the ReaTune direction for this pre, maybe it'd be nice to sort out some of the accuracy issues that seem to bother it, at least above C5/C6-ish?

https://forums.cockos.com/showthread.php?p=2409789
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=254052
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Old 05-28-2021, 11:38 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by musicbynumbers;2448892[*
# JSFX: add separate momentary RMS measurement to loudness meter
Having used many loudness meter plugins, seeing RMS anything is very odd indeed especially when the rather static RMS "integrated" meter will essentially be a hair's breadth away from the output of LUFS "integrated".

My 2¢ is to keep it simple and just stick to LUFS integrated, short-term, momentary + true peaks.

EDIT: I realize that it is possible to hide meters we don't want but it would be very desirable to add short-term LUFS too.
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Old 05-29-2021, 12:02 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airon View Post
It might be the way the LFE channel is handled, which on ITU material is the fourth channel in a file/track.
From https://tech.ebu.ch/docs/tech/tech3343.pdf (page 37):

Quote:
This weighting curve is applied to all channels except the Low-Frequency Effects Channel (LFE), which is currently discarded from the measurement…
Also of note is the way each surround channel is calculated:

https://imagebin.ca/v/63TYKtXj9GrT

Last edited by chmaha; 05-29-2021 at 10:45 AM.
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Old 05-29-2021, 12:50 AM   #11
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Sorry to interrupt with MIDI note reorder questions, but I'd really like to know whether I am chasing windmills here.

I still am not able to load a notename file I previously saved with reordered notes and have it actually show the saved note order.

The names do come up, but notes are in the usual 1-127 order. Because it's so ridiculously easy to lose the reordered state (by just switching to piano roll view and back to named notes, and even by using "Hide unused note rows" why is that?) this is pretty annoying.

Is there some secret handshake I have to perform or is it just not working yet and I should stop trying until further notice?


EDIT: AHAAAH! I found a trick to workaround:

If I first manually change the order of any note, then I can load a note name file and the saved order of the file I load will be established just fine.

Switching from one reordered file to another works without manual intervention, so there seems to be a hurdle between non-reordered and reordered state which loading a note name file doesn't pass yet.

Last edited by gofer; 05-29-2021 at 01:35 AM.
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Old 05-29-2021, 12:59 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
If you have the option to show FX Param in the TCP or Mixer when space permits, and space permits, then you load a Reatune instance, you'll see an embedded ReaTune GUI in said location.
No, you should just enable embed view for particular plugin.
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Old 05-29-2021, 01:32 AM   #13
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# JSFX: add separate momentary RMS measurement to loudness meter

In my experience, maximum SHORT-TERM LUFS value is the most useful for normalizing and comparing all kinds of levels.
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Old 05-29-2021, 01:47 AM   #14
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Quote:
+ JSFX: improve LUFS meter display when embedded
This is better, but there are still some things which can be adapted with small sizing to avoid overlaps and truncations, here are some propositions:


Minimum width for the config window:






Scale could disappear, meter could be centered.







Minimum height to avoid overlaps with values and labels (seem RMS-M)





Setting button could disappear, text be centered








Quote:
[*]+ ReaTune: enable TCP/MCP embed view for tuner

This is very nice to have, thx !


@airon
Quote:
SWS Loudness doesn't do well on those
Is this reported on SWS github ?
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Old 05-29-2021, 01:56 AM   #15
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Thanks!
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Old 05-29-2021, 03:33 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
[*]+ Actions: add action to calculate loudness of selected items via dry-run render
Thanks, this action is exactly what I wished for!

But if "Automatically close when finished" is checked in the render window it closes the window before the value can be read. The action should ignore this setting and force the window to stay open in my opinion.

And just another question out of curiosity. The action displays a very weird render path for the dry run render. Does this folder actually exist somewhere?


Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
[*]+ JSFX: improve LUFS meter display when embedded
Still looking weird here when embedded in MCP.


Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
[*]# Render: improve LUFS loudness calculation
On stereo and mono it seems to be in the ballpark of other more established meters now with my materials. I feel it tends often (but not always) to be 0.1LUFS below other meters but that is still perfectly fine (Youlean for example tends to be about 0.1LUFS above other meters with my materials).

Have no multichannel stuff to test here but if there are still the deviations that airon reported I hope it can be improved for that.

Warning to SWS users: I have tested the SWS calculation on mono materials and it is pretty inaccurate (about 2 LU too low values).

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
[*]# Render: potentially improve precision of normalization slightly
Thanks, peak normalization is absolutely perfect now!

Just one suggestion: to my knowledge (correct me if wrong) clipping occurs above 0.0dBFS and not at 0.0dBFS. Reaper however lights up clip indicators already at 0.0dBFS. Many audio files (samples, masters etc.) are normalized/limited to exactly 0dBFS which in Reaper creates a visual warning for sounds that are still within the digital maximum. Even sounds normalized to 0dB by Reaper itself (which shows 0 overs in the render window) activate the clipping indicators.

What if Reaper used this precise 0dB value which is now reached after normalizing to 0dB on render as internal threshold for activating the clipping indicators? So that when the user renders and normalizes a file to 0dB and imports that into Reaper it won't trigger the clipping indicators but as soon as the gain is raised slightly by 0.01dB (or possibly even less) it turns them on?
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Old 05-29-2021, 04:00 AM   #17
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Quote:
ReaTune: enable TCP/MCP embed view for tuner
Thanks a lot!
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Old 05-29-2021, 06:30 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazma View Post
Warning to SWS users: I have tested the SWS calculation on mono materials and it is pretty inaccurate (about 2 LU too low values).
If comparing to Youlean (and other Loudness plugins), have you disabled one pin before measuring, otherwise it measures stereo (while SWS measures mono), see
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....27#post2192327
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Old 05-29-2021, 07:15 AM   #19
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If comparing to Youlean (and other Loudness plugins), have you disabled one pin before measuring, otherwise it measures stereo (while SWS measures mono), see
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....27#post2192327
Wow.. now that you mention it it makes perfectly sense but I can see that confuse many people who rely on such metering plugins while not regularly (or even at all) having to deal with plugin pin routing in their workflows.

Reaper's new action for LUFS calculation via dry render suffers from this too. I guess it needs to get the channel count of the selected items and subtract 3dB from mono items.
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Old 05-29-2021, 07:39 AM   #20
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Well it's kinda a can of worms because it depends on what the final output format should be.
If stereo it is fine, but for mono it would be 3 dB too high.
Not sure how Reaper can best handle this (for SWS a dual-mono scanning mode is planned for this which then calculates mono items with +3 dB when enabled).

Here's further elaboration about the issue:
https://github.com/jiixyj/libebur128...ment-213695127
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Old 05-29-2021, 07:41 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Phazma View Post
Reaper's new action for LUFS calculation via dry render suffers from this too. I guess it needs to get the channel count of the selected items and subtract 3dB from mono items.
The action should calculate mono loudness for mono items.
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Old 05-29-2021, 07:46 AM   #22
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I wish reatune had some kind of autodetect for window sizes

or like an auto setting
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Old 05-29-2021, 09:05 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by schwa View Post
The action should calculate mono loudness for mono items.
Here it seems not to, though.

https://we.tl/t-m7nUl8zQTJ

The link above contains a basic drum beat I made from all mono samples and exported to a mono file.

On render, Reaper showed a loudness of -27.8 LUFS. When I loaded this file into Reaper and analyzed it via SWS, this value was confirmed.

However analyzing it with the new Reaper action gives a value of -24.8 LUFS, exactly 3LU higher, just like plugin meters when both L + R input pins are connected.
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Old 05-29-2021, 09:16 AM   #24
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I get -27.8 with the reaper action. The REAPER JSFX will show -24.8 unless the media item is set to play back on only one track channel. If you're seeing something different, maybe that's something that got corrected since the +dev build, so please check back when the next +dev is posted.
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Old 05-29-2021, 09:24 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
I get -27.8 with the reaper action. The REAPER JSFX will show -24.8 unless the media item is set to play back on only one track channel. If you're seeing something different, maybe that's something that got corrected since the +dev build, so please check back when the next +dev is posted.
Ok I will test it again in the next dev build.
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Old 05-29-2021, 09:58 AM   #26
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I've prepared a bunch of 5.1 mixes for verification, and have collected all the data for LMCorrect2(EBUR128 mode), Youlean Loudness Meter 2(drag'n'drop in to plugin window or application in EBUR128 mode), SWS Extension Loudness window v2.12.1 #3 and Reaper dev0528 version.

It's always the LFE not being used at all and as BethHarmon pointed out, the surround channels being weighted differently, as stereo material is doing fine already.

Does anyone have current compiles of libebur128 or similar tools to test as well ?

Ready for the next round.
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Old 05-29-2021, 10:01 AM   #27
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Reatune on the TCP is great!!!

Bug: when on 2 tracks, if I resize one too small then back to large... the readout goes dead. Delete, re-add to the track and it works fine.

The scaling on the bottom is maybe too busy. Kinda only need the note name, red/green. Larger percent +/- as a number next to the note would be nice instead buried at the bottom.

Optional color choice for flat/sharp would be nice, too, since I already have green/red meters. Or actually, you could just make the note character appear, have it flash for sharp/flat with a specific color, and solid when on.

WAIT,


Actually, this is how it should work:

1) Only show the character name of the note (G#, F, etc.), large;
2) Strobe one color for flat, another for sharp;
3) When within 10 cents have it switch to showing the same size number character for cents;
4) Then, have an integrated cents value displayed when it's within 1 cent (how much it's drifting/whether it's drifting up or down).


The LUFS meter is a nice addition as well, but I can't get a useful size/appearance on the MPC master, a pre-settable red-yellow-green might be nice; something that shows if you're close to -14, hitting 14, over 14, etc.

/ for the peanut gallery: no, I'm not trying to hit -14 LUFS, but I'd like to know if I *am* there.
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Old 05-29-2021, 10:42 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airon View Post
It's always the LFE not being used at all and as BethHarmon pointed out, the surround channels being weighted differently, as stereo material is doing fine already.
To be clear, the LFE should not be part of the measurement in the current implementation of ITU-R BS.1770 / EBU R128 (I think we are probably saying the same thing) so either it *is* erroneously part of the measurement in the current REAPER implementations (probably not given the analysis is lower than Youlean etc) or a surround weighting issue (left and right surround should both be weighted +1.5dB) or a pin issue.

As for other tools, I think you have a good spread but I'm happy to test any available audio with ffmpeg analysis (via my ebu-scan script), Klangfreund Multimeter offline mode and the LAN tool in Ardour. Would you be able to share some audio?

Last edited by chmaha; 05-29-2021 at 11:02 AM.
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Old 05-29-2021, 01:38 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
The scaling on the bottom is maybe too busy. Kinda only need the note name, red/green.
wholeheartedly disagree. maybe upsized, but there's a reason visual meters are usually favored over text readouts at a distance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
Larger percent +/- as a number next to the note would be nice instead buried at the bottom.
sure. the visual metering in the top box with note name overlaid is certainly not super functional from a readability perspective, save for the note name itself, so moving the Hz/cents up there is reasonable. the compromises made to help the note name "pop" (black text background, low color contrast) are defensible, but the complete color meter is directly below and the half-redundancy isn't helpful, so might as well occupy that space with a larger alternate representation.

Last edited by pentecost; 05-29-2021 at 02:41 PM.
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Old 05-30-2021, 08:28 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by pentecost View Post
wholeheartedly disagree. maybe upsized, but there's a reason visual meters are usually favored over text readouts at a distance.
That's a generalization. The speed of the strobing tells you how far off you are. And for the meter to be visually useful you would have to enlarge the TCP track panel to an impractical large size, negating the convenience of having a tuner on the TCP.
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