Reaper Crashes & Kontakt?

[Tod]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

Hi Tod, if it is "crashing" why is task manager involved?

Ha ha, well maybe I'm using the wrong wordage.

It gets greyed out, "Unresponsive", and will never recover itself, hence Task Manager.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Tod

Ha ha, well maybe I'm using the wrong wordage.

It gets greyed out, "Unresponsive", and will never recover itself, hence Task Manager.

I sort of knew that already but wanted to confirm. So that isn't a crash but a deadlock or infinite loop (deadlock if it doesn't use any CPU, loop if it starts eating CPU). Then you have to force-kill to recover. It is an important detail to know.

Can Kontakt "scripts" do code loops and stuff? Not saying it's a script's fault, just based on your description we're hitting a deadlock or infinite loop somewhere in the code whether a script or not; and yes added complexity of heavy projects, multiple instances/instruments whatever could increase/expose risk any hiding bug that causes it. The fact you are moving quickly 'sometimes' (if that's the case) and pressing play, is also a clue of a race condition type issue which is a popular way to end up in a deadlock.

[MusoBob]

Is this something you're using MusoBob?

Yes I use them both in any situation where I have issues with plugins.
PluginFlipFlop is like a sandbox and can be set to reload another instance of the plugin it it crashes.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by Edgemeal

Add FX window > right click the FX > Run as > Dedicated process

Originally Posted by Tod

Okay, thanks Edgemeal, I'll give it a try for a while and see what happens.

Okay, I've used the "Dedicated process" for a couple of days now and not sure whether I like it. When I load Reaper, all instances of Kontakt
that are in the project are also opened with their Browsers open. Also each instance has little boxes or windows that are also open.

Also, the Kontakt instances get covered with Reaper's GUI and I have to move Reaper's GUI to get to Kontakt. Not good.

Originally Posted by karbomusic

I sort of knew that already but wanted to confirm. So that isn't a crash but a deadlock or infinite loop (deadlock if it doesn't use any CPU, loop if it starts eating CPU). Then you have to force-kill to recover. It is an important detail to know.

Can Kontakt "scripts" do code loops and stuff? Not saying it's a script's fault, just based on your description we're hitting a deadlock or infinite loop somewhere in the code whether a script or not; and yes added complexity of heavy projects, multiple instances/instruments whatever could increase/expose risk any hiding bug that causes it. The fact you are moving quickly 'sometimes' (if that's the case) and pressing play, is also a clue of a race condition type issue which is a popular way to end up in a deadlock.

Yeah, I use a lot of loops in my Kontakt's scripts, and it is possible to accidentally create an infinite loop, all though I'm not sure of that,
I think there is a warning when the script is compiled if you have an infinite loop. I'm very careful in this regard.

I suppose a script could be in the middle of a loop, or something else, when I press play, but that's rather unlikely too. The scripts are supper
fast and normal loops, or other actions, are completed almost instantly, micro-seconds.

When it happens I'm almost always working quickly and intensely, so when it does go bad, I'm shutting it down quickly so I can get back at it.
Also it's happened so many times I haven't paid attention to the exact conditions, so I'm going to try keep better track of the conditions when
it happens again.

Thanks Karbo,

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Tod

When it happens I'm almost always working quickly and intensely, so when it does go bad, I'm shutting it down quickly so I can get back at it.
Also it's happened so many times I haven't paid attention to the exact conditions, so I'm going to try keep better track of the conditions when
it happens again.

I don't really suspect one of your scripts but it does sound like a potential race condition resulting in a deadlock in some code somewhere. The quick test is the next time it happens see if Reaper is using zero or no CPU, if so, most likely a deadlock. That could be a kontakt or instrument bug that is only exposed when certain actions are taken, in certain combinations at just the right speed/time. I thought I saw it sometimes happens just sitting there, so that's a clue possibly too.

None of what I'm saying will likely fix the issue, but it will help understand more about what is occurring.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by Tod

Okay, I've used the "Dedicated process" for a couple of days now and not sure whether I like it. When I load Reaper, all instances of Kontakt
that are in the project are also opened with their Browsers open. Also each instance has little boxes or windows that are also open.

Also, the Kontakt instances get covered with Reaper's GUI and I have to move Reaper's GUI to get to Kontakt. Not good.

Okay, more about this. I had a client I'm producing in today to start work on a song.

The first thing I did was record the midi tracks for drums and bass using my midi keyboard. When I tried to play along to Reaper's
metronome, I simply couldn't do it. I was all over the place. At first I blamed it on my new keyboard, but that didn't make sense
either because the keyboard responded perfectly when I played it. So then I thought it must be me, and I went ahead until I had the
drums and the bass done. Things were way off, mostly about a 32nd to a 16th behind the beat. So I simply grabbed the notes and pulled
them ahead, then quantized to 100%.

From there I recorded my client Sonny King playing his acoustic guitar. I had Sonny plugged straight in direct, so I turned the volume
of the acoustic in Reaper down, and we just listened to the acoustic live while we played the drums and the bass. When we got done and
I played the Ac Gtr track back with the drums and bass, I thought oh my gosh, he was really off.

But then I started examining the guitar track and it appeared that the guitar was off about the same amount my midi tracks were off. So
I pulled the whole item ahead to where it looked good, and then it sounded right on.

I don't know if setting Kontakt to "Dedicated process" could cause this situation, but I've since put it back to where it was. Tomorrow
I'll do a little experimenting with the midi to see what happens.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by Tod

I don't know if setting Kontakt to "Dedicated process" could cause this situation, but I've since put it back to where it was. Tomorrow
I'll do a little experimenting with the midi to see what happens.

Okay, the "Dedicated process" setting was definitely the problem with the latency.

I set "Run as" back to "Default (set in PRefs/VST)" and all the latency disappeared.

[Dimarious.G]

Hi, fellows!

I encountered into the Kontakt crash problems recently. It was crashing randomly, especially when loading multiple instances. I believe second Kontakt instance almost guaranteed the Reaper crash.

Now, I made several changes to my configuration. First of all I fixed and rescaned my VST paths (Preferences -> Plug-ins -> VST). I checked my paths and actually removed everything except 'C:\Program Files\Native Instruments\VSTPlugins 64 bit' because I am running on Windows x64 and the only plugins that I use is the NI plugins. Prior to this action my VST paths was cluttered with some Steinberg paths and bunch of others that was not actually used or even exist on my system. Then I hit Rescan button.

I checked/unchecked some random options in the same VST plug-ins settings window, so finished with just one checkbox is checked and everything else is not:
"Bypass audio while opening plug-in config window" --> on.

Finally, I checked "Run FX when stopped" and "Flush FX on stop" under the Playback settings section of Reaper Preferences. Without it my Kontakt was making sound only while playback.

Also I launched Kontakt standalone and did set audio driver to the same ASIO driver that I use in the Reaper.

Actually I don't know if any of this matters but I was surprized to be able to load 3 instances of Kontakt without crash and without strange bad lags that I used to experience with Kontakt before.

I am not sure by now if the problem is really solved or I just did not get crash yet.

Anyway. I think chances are the promlem is kind of configuration issue.

[Kristaoss]

Hello Tod, everyone.

I had the same issues. Doing some orchestral stuff, a few instances of Kontakt 5.8.1, a dozens of various libraries and intempestive crashes, sometimes every 5 minutes.
To me it happens on stop, or when I quickly stop-play.

Tried everything proposed on the thread, none worked for me.

After investiguating options preferences, I foound the guilty one :
Audio/playback : Flush FX on stop was checked (don't think it is by default though)
Now it is unchecked and no more crashes.

Hope it can helps some.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by Kristaoss

Hello Tod, everyone.

I had the same issues. Doing some orchestral stuff, a few instances of Kontakt 5.8.1, a dozens of various libraries and intempestive crashes, sometimes every 5 minutes.
To me it happens on stop, or when I quickly stop-play.

Tried everything proposed on the thread, none worked for me.

After investiguating options preferences, I foound the guilty one :
Audio/playback : Flush FX on stop was checked (don't think it is by default though)
Now it is unchecked and no more crashes.

Hope it can helps some.

Thanks Kristaoss, I'll have to check that out. However, my problems mostly happen when I've got Kontakt open while I'm programming midi and/or working on Kontakt scripts. It's still happening and I accept as something I have to live with.

On the other hand, I have no problem running several instances of Kontakt, although I don't use one instance of Kontakt for every instrument nki, I'm a little more prudent then that.

[nappies]

Hi guys! I also noticed periodic failures when switching to contact 6. Is it just me or is it like this for everyone?

[Tod]

Originally Posted by nappies

Hi guys! I also noticed periodic failures when switching to contact 6. Is it just me or is it like this for everyone?

I haven't used Kontakt 6 much nappies, I write scripts for Kontakt and prefer to use Kontakt 5 for backward compatibility.

A year ago I built a new computer using the AMD Ryzen 5600X and haven't hade near the problems. In fact I don't even think about it any more.

I do think there is an underlying problem with Reaper when Kontakt is open, which is the way I use it much of the time. However, my new computer has solved many of my prior problems.

[andivax]

Originally Posted by Kristaoss

Hello Tod, everyone.

I had the same issues. Doing some orchestral stuff, a few instances of Kontakt 5.8.1, a dozens of various libraries and intempestive crashes, sometimes every 5 minutes.
To me it happens on stop, or when I quickly stop-play.

Tried everything proposed on the thread, none worked for me.

After investiguating options preferences, I foound the guilty one :
Audio/playback : Flush FX on stop was checked (don't think it is by default though)
Now it is unchecked and no more crashes.

Hope it can helps some.

It's working! Thanx!
Unfortunately I love "Flush FX on Stop" option... ((