Old 08-02-2020, 06:30 AM   #1
Naji
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Default New plugin with hyper intelligence

I heard about people having the idea for developing a new plugin.
The plugin will have about 1200 reference songs. You can write e.g. drums billie jean, and you ll get a midi or audio drum file with billie jean drums. (or was it midi only?)
There will also be a feature with 4 or 5? different drum beats just being similar to the original. You can only get repetetive stuff, instruments or chords that repeat in chorus for example, no solos!
They will even go one step further, if you do not want to type it, just speak to your plugin "Horns" I feel good" and here they are! Offered together with a kind of rompler VSTi.
I see myself sitting in front of my computer and talking to it for hours haha
No kidding, I can not even say if I like this concept, but it's interesting for sure.
Samsung or Sony I can't remember in collab with two students

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Old 08-02-2020, 06:58 AM   #2
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Not the same thing but you can mouth your Midi in now:
https://www.vochlea.co.uk/
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Old 08-02-2020, 07:48 AM   #3
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The plugin will have about 1200 reference songs. You can write e.g. drums billie jean, and you ll get a midi or audio drum file with billie jean drums.
That will make for some interesting copyright claims....

I guess v6.0 will have internet capability, and will Google the obscure Norwegian folk trio whose accordion you wish to emulate, find the specified track on YouTube or Spotify, and do the rest.

v9.0 will dispense with voice recognition altogether, and utilise your audio interface's capacity to take your ideas directly from your brain via cranial implant.

I hope it does better than Alexa....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xml5CBzI76E
(NSFW)
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Old 08-02-2020, 07:55 AM   #4
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..
I hope it does better than Alexa....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xml5CBzI76E
(NSFW)
That's because they're northerners, speech recognition has got it's standards/limits you know!

Go even further north and this is what happens:
https://youtu.be/sAz_UvnUeuU
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Old 08-02-2020, 08:01 AM   #5
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That's because they're northerners, speech recognition has got it's standards/limits you know!
I think Alexa just hates Chris Rea. (She loves Slade, obviously, but she hates Chris Rea fans more.)
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Old 08-02-2020, 02:43 PM   #6
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Eyup, trubble up t'mill !!
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Old 08-02-2020, 03:47 PM   #7
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What kind of trubble?
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Old 08-02-2020, 09:35 PM   #8
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No clue about copyright, but there will also be genre categories afair, eg Jazz, Bepob, Cool Jazz, Swing etc and if each had 10 - 20 different examples without copyright, you pretty fast have 1000 altogether. Not sure but maybe if you wanted eg Billie Jean, plugin wozld give you something similar with different variations. We will see.
Not sure any more, but reference tracks should reference Top 10 hits from 19?? until 1999 from different chart categories. It was funny actually our topic was how the music got worse since 1990ies, I met that guy in a train for the first time. Then he talked about that plugin after I told him I use Reaper and so on, it's quite interesting that it stops in 1995. I like the idea, but they would be mire successful if they made it until now, just for the younger generation imo. The plugin s name will even in include 1995 or 95. I should have asked why 1995 and not 1990, but had to leave the train, was there something special in 1995 or maybe 1996?

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Old 08-02-2020, 09:51 PM   #9
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Dunno.... it was a bad year for squirrels....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_in_music
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Old 08-08-2020, 02:29 PM   #10
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When I started using a daw, almost every plugin s mix was set to 100% except reverb and delay.
I have changed my workflow.
I d say average mix setting is at about 30%, reverb and delay much less and a cab sim plugin even gets 75% sometimes.

I just do not like a plugin affecting 100% of the dry sound.

What about you?
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Old 08-08-2020, 02:41 PM   #11
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It depends entirely on the nature of the plugin, the nature of the source audio (if any) and the desired effect. As such, it is to be determined by listening, and not by some mathematical formula.
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Old 08-08-2020, 02:51 PM   #12
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What I learned from Chris Lord is to use presets or templates in Reaper.
Chris does not like wasting time, even on his hardware settings are done, tweaking knobs or sliders too much is a waste of time, I agree.
If I play my bass, I load my bass template with appropriate plugins on tracks, all settings are done. Rarely something has to be changed. If I tracked different musicians with different instruments, I would have to tweak a little , but it's only me in my studio and I use one bass and one e guitar only.

Music is about 80% mathematics only!
Whether plugins, mixer settings or playing scales, even when you improvise you practice mathematics!

You are right, if one likes experimenting with different sounds, presets or templates won't work that well maybe . I know what I want my clean and my distorted guitar to sound like, no need to change amps or fx each time, even though I could choose eg from about hundred different cabs each time, but that's one of the biggest problems today depending on where you are living: ABUNDANCE

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Old 08-08-2020, 02:54 PM   #13
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What % do you normally set your speaker cabinet to? Mine don’t have knobs for that.
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Old 08-08-2020, 02:55 PM   #14
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Whatever sounds good
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Old 08-08-2020, 03:04 PM   #15
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What % do you normally set your speaker cabinet to? Mine don’t have knobs for that.
You can set the amount of mix % for every plugin in Reaper! There is a knob!
Cabs I set to 75%.
For parallel compression you do not have to create one extra track, just use the knob and decide how much compression you want

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Old 08-08-2020, 03:04 PM   #16
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Most of the time 100%...occasionally on a reverb direct on an instrument or some easy NY compression.
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Old 08-08-2020, 03:10 PM   #17
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Most of the time 100%...occasionally on a reverb direct on an instrument or some easy NY compression.
100 % reverb, really?
I suppose, "occasionally" means, sometimes less than 100%!?
Reverb is about 10 - 15% here, when used as insert

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Old 08-08-2020, 03:20 PM   #18
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Cabs I set to 75%.
IDK, but when you plug into a guitar amp, 100% of the sound comes out the speaker, through the microphone, into the mix. It would be extremely unusual to mix that with say the direct out from the amp, and would probably cause a mess of phase weirdness in the frequency ranges where the two overlap. I guess if it’s working for you, then go with it, but I’d only do that kind of thing for a very specific special effect.
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Old 08-08-2020, 03:27 PM   #19
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I see. But I have been tweaking around with all kind of plugins over the years and I like 75% for cabs best.
My guitar is sometimes coming either with amp from Roland VS 1680 or Boss Dr880, and for some sounds I do not add a cab at all, because sounds great. I know with plugin amps you should better always add a cab
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Old 08-08-2020, 04:27 PM   #20
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Sorry, on reverb and NY compression I will use a smaller percentage...I thought that was implied.
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Old 08-09-2020, 10:59 AM   #21
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I like to mix in about 50% (no more) anything with a HP filter
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Old 08-09-2020, 12:26 PM   #22
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Quote:
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What I learned from Chris Lord is to use presets or templates in Reaper.
Chris does not like wasting time, even on his hardware settings are done, tweaking knobs or sliders too much is a waste of time, I agree.
Make your mind up about your heroes Naj!
Lord is the infamous king of overdone compression and the loudness war!

Lord doesn't give a flying duck about quality. He's all about the lowest common denominator.

To answer the question it varies hugely depending on the track and what my ears hear.
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Old 08-09-2020, 12:36 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Naji View Post
When I started using a daw, almost every plugin s mix was set to 100% except reverb and delay.
I have changed my workflow.
I d say average mix setting is at about 30%, reverb and delay much less and a cab sim plugin even gets 75% sometimes.

I just do not like a plugin affecting 100% of the dry sound.

What about you?
100% wet 100% of the time!

If I want parallel instances of something to create a balance of, I'll put those elements on their own tracks. Then you simply grab faders and mix as always. Having to open a plugin, adjust a wet/dry balance, and then have to readjust the fader volume to make up for changing that wet/dry balance would just be over the top frustrating! And that x1000 if we're talking about ambient components (verb, delay). I'd go so far as to suggest there should never even be wet/dry controls on plugins! I can't fathom why anyone would want to inconvenience themselves working like that.
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Old 08-09-2020, 01:05 PM   #24
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I'd go so far as to suggest there should never even be wet/dry controls on plugins!
I've always assumed that those controls are for people who use "DAWs" without Wet/Dry controls, and lack the experience to run FX in parallel.
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Old 08-09-2020, 01:09 PM   #25
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Having to open a plugin, adjust a wet/dry balance, and then have to readjust the fader volume to make up for changing that wet/dry balance would just be over the top frustrating!
Just occasionally, I'll set <100 wet on a distortion or something, where the project already has too many tracks and I'm not going to be constantly re-adjusting the balance. You're completely right, though - it's the wrong way to do it 99.9% of the time.
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Old 08-09-2020, 01:47 PM   #26
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I do not really understand. 100% reverb is way too much reverb. As for guitar track 100% flanger could be too much or 100% chorus. So I use Reaper's mix knob to adjust.
Of course you could send several tracks to one aux reverb track and adjust the amount of desired reverb for each track by using the send or receive slider. But if I use one reverb for one instrument, I do not create one more track for reverb, but I use it as insert and adjust it with mix knob.
Also parallel drum compression, whether you create an additional track with compressor or use a compressor in the track itself and adjust the amount of compression by using Reaper's mix knob or a mix knob of plugin, the result is the same. So why creating additional tracks? To have higher cpu usage? Makes no sense.

What would a guitar setup look like?
One track with clean guitar.
One more track for compression.
One more track for amp sim.
One more track for cab sim.
One more for distortion.
One more for flanger.
One more track for delay.
One more for reverb.
8 tracks for guitar only???
Sorry, but that's not my workflow...
You can have it all on one track only imo
and of course not with mix knob set to 100% for each plugin

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Old 08-09-2020, 01:51 PM   #27
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Naj,
This seems to be a mutual exchange of misunderstandings.
Obviously you would normally set FX 100% wet on an aux send track and reduce the level there, most of the time.
You can of course put FX directly on a track and just adjust balance there within the plugin itself. There is no right or wrong here.
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Old 08-09-2020, 02:05 PM   #28
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I do not really understand. 100% reverb is way too much reverb.
Probably. That's why you'd likely have the channel fader on the reverb track pulled down some. But you'd want that reverb - all by itself on its own track and receiving sends from source tracks of your choice - at 100% on it's own track.

Pick one:

A. Grab the channel faders on the source tracks and the reverb track and balance to taste.

B. Open the reverb plugin. Adjust the wet/dry balance. Now readjust the channel fader (because that overall level changed when you adjusted the wet/dry balance). Now keep repeating that until you inch your way to the mix balance you want to hear.

One of those choices should sound straightforward and easy. The other one should sound like an obnoxious exercise in frustration.
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Old 08-09-2020, 02:09 PM   #29
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Ok, I see.
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Old 08-09-2020, 03:43 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naji View Post
What would a guitar setup look like?
One track with clean guitar.
Ok, I like that....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naji View Post
One more track for compression.
Hmm.... if the compression is to fix a problem with the guitar dynamics, I might put it on the guitar track. It depends on how much I might want to tweak it later. There's a difference here between a guitar which is soloing all the way through a blues number, and a guitar sample which is playing the same riff occasionally in an EDM piece.
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One more track for amp sim.
Sounds good to me.... does that come with a compressor?
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One more track for cab sim.
Not for me, the amp sim isn't much use without the cab, so they might as well sit on the same track.
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One more for distortion.
Possibly, but unlikely; I've either got my favourite fuzzbox sat on the guitar track (I like the presets, I won't change them much), or the amp sim is handling all the distortion.
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One more for flanger.
Strange that I'd use it with all that distortion. Either way, it might not play nicely with the amp sim, so it's either on the amp track so that both can be tweaked at once, or, more likely, on it's own track in a route that goes guitar > flanger > main bus > master, regardless of what else is happening with the guitar.
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One more track for delay.
No, because, unlike you, I prefer to run as few time modulation FX in a project as possible. The guitar can send to the same delay as everything else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naji View Post
One more for reverb.
If the guitar needs its own dedicated reverb, there's probably something better on the amp sim.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naji View Post
8 tracks for guitar only???
No, two or three.
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Originally Posted by Naji View Post
So why creating additional tracks? To have higher cpu usage? Makes no sense.
Tracks don't use much CPU. Routing takes its toll. Far and away the biggest drain on resources is all those FX you're using.

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Old 08-09-2020, 03:56 PM   #31
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There is no right or wrong here.
This is good to remember!
aka: If it sounds right, it is right.

My rule of thumb:
Individual mix elements go on their own tracks. You want to be able to grab any fader for any mix element and work the mix balance.

Ambient elements like verb or delay are individual mix elements. Those sounds are in addition to the dry source. (Generated from it, yes! But separate mix elements.) You want those on their own faders. (And as mentioned, you SURE don't want something where you have to open a plugin ... adjust ... readjust ... repeat until you forgot what you wanted to hear!)

If you want to alter a source element, that's when you daisychain on the same track. When you want to eq some rumble off of a source for example. You don't have any intention of keeping an un-eq'd version of that to balance in the mix. You literally want that source altered (cut off the rumble with eq).

Now if you decide to get into parallel processing, you split a source into layers to let you work on separate elements like that. I wouldn't recommend this for a beginner. But at least understand the concept for now.

Quote:
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So why creating additional tracks? To have higher cpu usage?
Because the mixing board is your tool to separate the elements of the mix to let you work them with ease. You aren't creating a mixing board layout to look at. You're creating a mix. Use the tools for ease of doing that, NOT for how anything looks. Only worry about CPU use if you hit the back wall.
And this sure as hell isn't supposed to be a contest to see how much of the mixing board you can cram into a single track in a DAW! Ease of mix control is what you're after.


Again, don't necessarily take any of this as right vs wrong. I'm trying to explain by example with a few carefully crafted absolutes.

Last edited by serr; 08-09-2020 at 04:02 PM.
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Old 08-16-2020, 01:21 AM   #32
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Whatever sounds good
same! but I also realised I'm usually at 75%, but I change it as i please...
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Old 08-16-2020, 02:04 AM   #33
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Music is about 80% mathematics only!
Whether plugins, mixer settings or playing scales, even when you improvise you practice mathematics!
Reducing art to mathematics makes little sense. There are no mathematics in existence that could even attempt to explain art.
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Old 08-16-2020, 02:28 AM   #34
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Reducing art to mathematics makes little sense. There are no mathematics in existence that could even attempt to explain art.
Music Is Math:
https://youtu.be/-pI-EOHsEu8
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Old 08-16-2020, 04:37 AM   #35
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No. Math is math. Music is MORE than math.
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Old 08-17-2020, 11:21 AM   #36
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No. Math is math. Music is MORE than math.
Evidently you didn't play the video link.
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Old 08-17-2020, 01:51 PM   #37
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Quote:
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For parallel compression you do not have to create one extra track, just use the knob and decide how much compression you want
This is true. It's also true to use an additional track for driving the compression. I find it easier to dial in, the automation is faster (maybe because I am just used to it), and the types of tools I use can sometimes be more sensitive to this "driving effect".
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Old 12-06-2020, 02:21 AM   #38
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Default Is Plugindiscounts a legal dealer?

No adress, could not reset my password, they do not reply to my email, no phone number or contact person's name. I do not intend to buy there anything, just curious, it's too anonymous and strange to trust this dealer, whoever it is. I forgot mypassword and can't even remember if I have bought something there. Today I ve succeded to enter correct password and had a closer look at the homepage. Any experience?
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Old 12-06-2020, 03:17 AM   #39
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Been using them now and again for years. They do indeed appear to be 100% legit.
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Old 12-06-2020, 05:57 AM   #40
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Default Your best plugin Black Friday purchase

Nembrini PSA 1000, I like it on almost everything. What's your new fav plugin?
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