Old 07-09-2020, 09:06 AM   #1
halfbeing
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Default Reliable motherboards for audio work?

I'm looking for recommendations for motherboards that work well for pro-audio purposes. Currently I have a desktop computer with an ASRock 980DE3/U3S3 motherboard which has a terrible ground loop problem that I have been unable to resolve and which puts bus noise in my input signals. Or at least I presume it's the motherboard that is the problem. I've been able to rule out my audio interfaces as the cause (because they work fine with my laptop), but I don't know enough to be absolutely sure that it's not the power supply or the graphics card (a bottom-of-the range Asus-branded Nvidia card) that is the problem instead of the motherboard, but the motherboard does seem to be the most likely candidate. Maybe I do need to ask about suitable power supplies as well.

In any case, I would be grateful for recommendations, either for particular models of motherboard or, if possible, for reliable brands (and maybe suitable power supplies as well).
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Old 07-09-2020, 09:27 AM   #2
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What interfaces are you running and how are they connected?
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Old 07-09-2020, 10:14 AM   #3
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What interfaces are you running and how are they connected?
I have a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 and a Clarett 4Pre USB. They both work fine with my laptop.

I have already posted about the problem on forums and discussed it at great length, and spent a huge amount of time trying different combinations of equipment to see what happens. The upshot of it is that the problem is not so bad when I am using a device without other electrical connections, such as a microphone or my bass, but it is always there. At this point, trying to solve the problem with my existing hardware is flogging a dead horse and I don't want to waste any more time with it. I just want something that works properly.
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Old 07-09-2020, 10:26 AM   #4
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I only noticed one thread of yours posting about that issue, but maybe you discussed it on other forums.

Here's some advice, and unless you heard this before, it's not beating a dead horse.

Connect your computer, your computer's audio device adapter (if there's a separate power adapter for it), and your "electric instrument" into the same mains plug. That will avoid a ground loop which can happen across different mains plugs, which is a very common source of ground loops. People giving advice which is opposite to that are plain wrong.

From there if you have a ground loop issue, isolation will be required. That might need to be done to one device or another, in one way or another. It's hard to provide advice about that since I don't know all the details. It's also possible you have a mains wiring issue. To eliminate that variable you can try using the computer in a different room on a different mains circuit, or even in a different house. A poorly wired ground is all it takes. A reversed neutral and ground can also be possible and that is difficult to determine (and that will cause noise issues galore).

Your audio devices work better with your laptop probably since it has a power supply with more isolation from the mains (and especially if you use the laptop with battery power only).

I hope that helps, because the way you're expecting to approach the issue (asking for advice about mainboards that will prevent ground loops) is probably not going to help. From what I know, that's not a thing. Your desktop computer's power supply and/or video card may be contributing to noise, but not ground loop issues as far as I could say either. For instance if you use a video card that demands more power from your power supply than a "non-gaming" or built-on GPU, it may induce some noise from the power supply (coil whine for instance) if the power supply isn't really designed specifically for high-current use on that power rail (a "gaming" power supply). But I still wouldn't expect that would cause a ground loop issue; that's a separate thing.

Last edited by JamesPeters; 07-09-2020 at 10:44 AM.
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Old 07-09-2020, 11:57 AM   #5
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I've honestly done everything.

I have European wiring, so the "neutral" is not at the same potential as the ground, but that is normal here. I even got the landlord to bring his electrician round to check. I want a motherboard that works in Europe. All the business about running everything from the same socket I have already tried. Everything already runs from the same socket. I have tried other sockets.

Maybe it isn't technically a ground loop that I've got — maybe I've misunderstood what has been happening — but what I certainly do have is the sound of my computer doing its computing contaminating my audio inputs. I have even tried isolating the power supply from the ground, but that made no difference.

I know that the noise becomes very loud if the audio comes from a device that is also connected to the computer by USB, such as my bass amp, which can be configured via USB.

I've tried using an isolating transformer when connecting my bass to both the computer and my bass amp via a DI box, which is another configuration that otherwise produces very loud bus noise. It helps, but it doesn't solve the problem entirely.
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Old 07-09-2020, 12:22 PM   #6
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So perhaps your USB ports don't have well-filtered power.

In that case I can say my current mainboard works well with my Focusrite 2i2. It's very low noise (very low hiss, and no discernible hum or other weird noises). The mainboard is "Gigabyte X470 Aorus Ultra Gaming" (used with an AMD Ryzen 7 3700X CPU).

My older computer's mainboard is "MSI B150M Mortar" (used with an Intel Core i3 6300 CPU). I still use the computer sometimes and it's given me no problems with any audio interface, or connecting anything to it.
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Old 07-09-2020, 01:40 PM   #7
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Shot in the dark- is your I/O port installed properly? The little tabs on the I/O port are to ground the motherboard. If they're not attached properly or non existent, you aren't going to blow anything up but it'll be more prone to noise.
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Old 07-09-2020, 03:41 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fakemaxwell View Post
Shot in the dark- is your I/O port installed properly? The little tabs on the I/O port are to ground the motherboard. If they're not attached properly or non existent, you aren't going to blow anything up but it'll be more prone to noise.
I've tried using both my USB2 and USB3 ports, which have separate connections to the motherboard, but I get the same problem with both.
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Old 07-09-2020, 03:44 PM   #9
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I think that Maxwell was referring to the metal "shield" that clips in to the back of your computer chassis.
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Old 07-09-2020, 03:54 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dug dog View Post
I think that Maxwell was referring to the metal "shield" that clips in to the back of your computer chassis.
Do you mean the metal panel that fits round the ethernet port and USB ports at the back of the computer?
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Old 07-09-2020, 03:56 PM   #11
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Yes.
Sorry for the poor explanation.
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Old 07-09-2020, 04:29 PM   #12
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I've had a look at the panel and it looks like it was fitted really badly. As you can see in the photo, it has been jammed over the serial port so that the whole panel bulges out, and there are tabs that aren't where they are supposed to be. Could this be the problem? If so, could I fix it by jamming kitchen foil into one of the gaps? I don't want to have to take the whole computer apart if I can help it.
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Old 07-09-2020, 04:40 PM   #13
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I'm no expert and Maxwell may be a faker but it's easier to re-seat that thing than it is to replace the MOBO....
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Old 07-09-2020, 04:42 PM   #14
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I don't understand what you mean about the cables not being accessible. All the cables I use fit. It's only the serial port that is inaccessible and that port I never use.
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Old 07-09-2020, 05:13 PM   #15
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I guess I'm kind of averse to spending money without being certain it will work, but €10 for thermal paste for when I reseat the fan afterwards is probably a sensible investment.

If this works, I will be sending you all love letters.
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Old 07-09-2020, 05:42 PM   #16
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Be sure that the two metal tabs over the serial port are not actually touching the pins of the serial port. I can't tell from the picture if that's the case or not.
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Old 07-09-2020, 07:02 PM   #17
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This is for all of you, and especially for Fakemaxwell. I took the machine apart, reseated the plate, and it worked. The noise isn't entirely gone, but it's diminished by a huge amount, enough that I can get work done. Even when I have my digital piano connected by an audio cable and a USB cable at the same time, when before the noise was almost as loud as the piano sounds, it is still noticeable, but nothing like before. And since that is not something I have any real need to do, it doesn't matter. I can no longer see the noise on the DAW level meter when I have my bass plugged in, and I can now use MIDIBass (basically an audio to MIDI converter) without it mistaking all the squeaks and buzzes for notes. And I even found the end of a tube of thermal paste in a drawer, so it didn't cost me anything.

Here are some more flowers because you deserve them.
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Old 07-09-2020, 07:13 PM   #18
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Ahah oh man I can't believe it was right, you would not believe how recently I was reading about I/O ports causing grounding issues somewhere else. It might have been less than 24 hours ago, what timing. Glad it got (mostly) sorted.
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Old 07-12-2020, 04:12 PM   #19
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Nice story. You don't see many of these happy endings...
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Old 07-12-2020, 05:39 PM   #20
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Somewhat cosmic, too.
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