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Old 12-20-2014, 09:44 AM   #1
chip mcdonald
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Default Synthedit "Crash Prophylaxis Wrapper"?

So, it occurs to me is the Synthedit-crashy problem something that could be intercepted with a wrapper VST that "fixed" them?

Maybe too involved of a thing for anyone to tackle, but maybe it's just passing a value differently? I'd pay $5-10 to have a couple of VSTi's I use be stable...
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Old 12-20-2014, 10:40 AM   #2
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Does running them in dedicated processes not fix the clash?
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Old 12-20-2014, 11:28 AM   #3
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Synthedit plugins are the only ones that DONT crash for me. The SE 1.0 engine was stable, except for multiple instances, you copy and paste it first on your hard drive.

SE 1.1 onwards introduced more problems.
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Old 12-20-2014, 11:46 AM   #4
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you copy and paste it first on your hard drive.
Wow, isn't that convenient.
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Old 12-21-2014, 12:59 AM   #5
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Does running them in dedicated processes not fix the clash?
It seems that way sometimes, but other times it's worse.

That falls into the "Reaper settings that are more nebulous and abstruse" category. "Is it really helping?", seems like I go back and forth.
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Old 12-21-2014, 01:06 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
So, it occurs to me is the Synthedit-crashy problem something that could be intercepted with a wrapper VST that "fixed" them?

I'd pay $5-10 to have a couple of VSTi's I use be stable...
This is a great idea, if it's possible, and I'd pay a little more than that.
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Old 12-21-2014, 06:18 AM   #7
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Would using something like Mutools Mux or ImageLines Minihost not work like that, they are vst's that can host other vst's.
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Old 12-21-2014, 06:59 AM   #8
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Would using something like Mutools Mux or ImageLines Minihost not work like that, they are vst's that can host other vst's.
The problem with that is that if the SynthEdit plugins also crash the wrapper host plugin, Reaper will also go down with them...The only way to get some protection against crashes would be to host the plugins in a separate process, which the Reaper bit bridging could already do, though. (The Reaper bit bridging thing can also "firewall" 32 bit plugins when using the 32 bit Reaper, it's not just for running 32 bit plugins when using the 64 bit Reaper build.) That said, the best solution is to just drop using the problematic SynthEdit plugins. Surely they can't be so unique as to not have suitable stable replacements?
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Old 12-21-2014, 10:43 PM   #9
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Surely they can't be so unique as to not have suitable stable replacements?
There are a couple free VSTis that I like that are, as far as I know, pretty unique. Mainly an ESQ-1 emulation (SQL8) that is spot on, but also Tal's Juno 106 and Rumpelrausch Taips' Crazy Diamonds. And various Mellotrons. I'm not sure if all are Synthedit, but they're usually the culprits...
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Old 12-21-2014, 11:06 PM   #10
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I would be reluctant to relinquish some of my old favourites, too.

FWIW, I've used Crazy Diamonds and Elektrostudio's Tapeotronic Mellotron recently without any issues. Problems only occur if I try to run more than one instance of any Synthedit plug-in.
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Old 12-22-2014, 01:16 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
There are a couple free VSTis that I like that are, as far as I know, pretty unique. Mainly an ESQ-1 emulation (SQL8) that is spot on, but also Tal's Juno 106 [...] I'm not sure if all are Synthedit
Those two are not SE for example, but at least SQL8 is quite known to be crashy on all hosts. Nothing will help that except fixing the plug-in, which won't happen. Running all shaky plug-ins in a dedicated process avoids losing too much work in general and addresses particularly the old SE (multicore/multi-instance) bugs, it's synonymous with your "wrapper". Do not confuse "dedicated" and "separate".

It does not automatically fix specific bugs introduced beyond SE, e.g. in SE custom modules etc. or makes crashy plug-ins of all kinds less crashy. Many of those plug-ins were made in ancient times on Pentium I-IV single-core computers and run best on those, but some plug-ins were not particularly stable on those computers either.

I also got the impression that some of them don't like 64-bit operating systems or REAPER 64, not sure, in which case the dedicated process doesn't help as much.

While not all SE plug-ins are equally "unsafe", avoiding them when possible in general and using them very, very sparsely at most is the best strategy to avoid really complex and confusing trouble caused by non-threadsafe examples. Very, very few are worth dealing with projects working now and not anymore next month. If you consider this, it may be actually a good thing if they crash right away and not after you made a killer tune with them that you never get to mix/render/show or hear again later.

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Problems only occur if I try to run more than one instance of any Synthedit plug-in.
That's the multi-instance bug that all SE plug-ins made before 2010 have, and a part of what the dedicated process is good for.

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Old 12-22-2014, 02:19 AM   #12
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Problems only occur if I try to run more than one instance of any Synthedit plug-in.
Do you know about about the copying/renaming trick with such vst's ?
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Old 12-22-2014, 02:55 AM   #13
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Do you know about about the copying/renaming trick with such vst's ?
Yes, thanks. I've never had a problem if the 2nd instance is renamed, and it's very rare that I have to run two instances of a Synthedit VST anyway, but I'd still like to be able to, without all the messing about.
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Old 12-22-2014, 10:45 AM   #14
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I also got the impression that some of them don't like 64-bit operating systems or REAPER 64, not sure, in which case the dedicated process doesn't help as much.
Yeah, I've migrated back to Reaper 32 because it seemed that they were crashing more in 64.

Quote:
That's the multi-instance bug that all SE plug-ins made before 2010 have, and a part of what the dedicated process is good for.
Ok.

I'd forgotten about the renamed .dll trick, I suppose that definitely works/helps?
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Old 12-22-2014, 10:56 AM   #15
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I'd forgotten about the renamed .dll trick, I suppose that definitely works/helps?
IIRC it did when I tried it many many moons ago, but it's unnecessary if you run them in a dedicated process, which you should do at any rate if you're using more than one (instance or type of) SE plug-in anyway, for many reasons but mostly because it can't bite you in the behind so badly then (plug-in crashing the whole project on startup out of the blue...you name it).
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