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12-20-2014, 09:44 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: NA - North Augusta South Carolina
Posts: 4,294
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Synthedit "Crash Prophylaxis Wrapper"?
So, it occurs to me is the Synthedit-crashy problem something that could be intercepted with a wrapper VST that "fixed" them?
Maybe too involved of a thing for anyone to tackle, but maybe it's just passing a value differently? I'd pay $5-10 to have a couple of VSTi's I use be stable...
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12-20-2014, 10:40 AM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,355
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Does running them in dedicated processes not fix the clash?
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12-20-2014, 11:28 AM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 562
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Synthedit plugins are the only ones that DONT crash for me. The SE 1.0 engine was stable, except for multiple instances, you copy and paste it first on your hard drive.
SE 1.1 onwards introduced more problems.
__________________
Free Synthedit/Synthmaker plugins that I made: runbeerrun dot blogspot dot com
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12-20-2014, 11:46 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oulu, Finland
Posts: 8,062
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RunBeerRun
you copy and paste it first on your hard drive.
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Wow, isn't that convenient.
__________________
I am no longer part of the REAPER community. Please don't contact me with any REAPER-related issues.
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12-21-2014, 12:59 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: NA - North Augusta South Carolina
Posts: 4,294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarus
Does running them in dedicated processes not fix the clash?
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It seems that way sometimes, but other times it's worse.
That falls into the "Reaper settings that are more nebulous and abstruse" category. "Is it really helping?", seems like I go back and forth.
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12-21-2014, 01:06 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Portsmouth, UK
Posts: 4,376
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chip mcdonald
So, it occurs to me is the Synthedit-crashy problem something that could be intercepted with a wrapper VST that "fixed" them?
I'd pay $5-10 to have a couple of VSTi's I use be stable...
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This is a great idea, if it's possible, and I'd pay a little more than that.
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12-21-2014, 06:18 AM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 80
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Would using something like Mutools Mux or ImageLines Minihost not work like that, they are vst's that can host other vst's.
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12-21-2014, 06:59 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oulu, Finland
Posts: 8,062
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bibz1st
Would using something like Mutools Mux or ImageLines Minihost not work like that, they are vst's that can host other vst's.
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The problem with that is that if the SynthEdit plugins also crash the wrapper host plugin, Reaper will also go down with them...The only way to get some protection against crashes would be to host the plugins in a separate process, which the Reaper bit bridging could already do, though. (The Reaper bit bridging thing can also "firewall" 32 bit plugins when using the 32 bit Reaper, it's not just for running 32 bit plugins when using the 64 bit Reaper build.) That said, the best solution is to just drop using the problematic SynthEdit plugins. Surely they can't be so unique as to not have suitable stable replacements?
__________________
I am no longer part of the REAPER community. Please don't contact me with any REAPER-related issues.
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12-21-2014, 10:43 PM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: NA - North Augusta South Carolina
Posts: 4,294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenakios
Surely they can't be so unique as to not have suitable stable replacements?
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There are a couple free VSTis that I like that are, as far as I know, pretty unique. Mainly an ESQ-1 emulation (SQL8) that is spot on, but also Tal's Juno 106 and Rumpelrausch Taips' Crazy Diamonds. And various Mellotrons. I'm not sure if all are Synthedit, but they're usually the culprits...
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12-21-2014, 11:06 PM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Portsmouth, UK
Posts: 4,376
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I would be reluctant to relinquish some of my old favourites, too.
FWIW, I've used Crazy Diamonds and Elektrostudio's Tapeotronic Mellotron recently without any issues. Problems only occur if I try to run more than one instance of any Synthedit plug-in.
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12-22-2014, 01:16 AM
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#11
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Super Moderator (no feelings)
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: On or near a dike
Posts: 9,834
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chip mcdonald
There are a couple free VSTis that I like that are, as far as I know, pretty unique. Mainly an ESQ-1 emulation (SQL8) that is spot on, but also Tal's Juno 106 [...] I'm not sure if all are Synthedit
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Those two are not SE for example, but at least SQL8 is quite known to be crashy on all hosts. Nothing will help that except fixing the plug-in, which won't happen. Running all shaky plug-ins in a dedicated process avoids losing too much work in general and addresses particularly the old SE (multicore/multi-instance) bugs, it's synonymous with your "wrapper". Do not confuse "dedicated" and "separate".
It does not automatically fix specific bugs introduced beyond SE, e.g. in SE custom modules etc. or makes crashy plug-ins of all kinds less crashy. Many of those plug-ins were made in ancient times on Pentium I-IV single-core computers and run best on those, but some plug-ins were not particularly stable on those computers either.
I also got the impression that some of them don't like 64-bit operating systems or REAPER 64, not sure, in which case the dedicated process doesn't help as much.
While not all SE plug-ins are equally "unsafe", avoiding them when possible in general and using them very, very sparsely at most is the best strategy to avoid really complex and confusing trouble caused by non-threadsafe examples. Very, very few are worth dealing with projects working now and not anymore next month. If you consider this, it may be actually a good thing if they crash right away and not after you made a killer tune with them that you never get to mix/render/show or hear again later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fex
Problems only occur if I try to run more than one instance of any Synthedit plug-in.
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That's the multi-instance bug that all SE plug-ins made before 2010 have, and a part of what the dedicated process is good for.
Last edited by Ollie; 12-22-2014 at 01:26 AM.
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12-22-2014, 02:19 AM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fex
Problems only occur if I try to run more than one instance of any Synthedit plug-in.
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Do you know about about the copying/renaming trick with such vst's ?
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12-22-2014, 02:55 AM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Portsmouth, UK
Posts: 4,376
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bibz1st
Do you know about about the copying/renaming trick with such vst's ?
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Yes, thanks. I've never had a problem if the 2nd instance is renamed, and it's very rare that I have to run two instances of a Synthedit VST anyway, but I'd still like to be able to, without all the messing about.
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12-22-2014, 10:45 AM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: NA - North Augusta South Carolina
Posts: 4,294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie
I also got the impression that some of them don't like 64-bit operating systems or REAPER 64, not sure, in which case the dedicated process doesn't help as much.
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Yeah, I've migrated back to Reaper 32 because it seemed that they were crashing more in 64.
Quote:
That's the multi-instance bug that all SE plug-ins made before 2010 have, and a part of what the dedicated process is good for.
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Ok.
I'd forgotten about the renamed .dll trick, I suppose that definitely works/helps?
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12-22-2014, 10:56 AM
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#15
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Super Moderator (no feelings)
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: On or near a dike
Posts: 9,834
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chip mcdonald
I'd forgotten about the renamed .dll trick, I suppose that definitely works/helps?
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IIRC it did when I tried it many many moons ago, but it's unnecessary if you run them in a dedicated process, which you should do at any rate if you're using more than one (instance or type of) SE plug-in anyway, for many reasons but mostly because it can't bite you in the behind so badly then (plug-in crashing the whole project on startup out of the blue...you name it).
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