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02-21-2016, 03:27 PM
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#361
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 673
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Note and rest placements are looking MUCH better in 5.20pre8 (i.e. bugs 31 and 32 have been fixed) - thanks for your hard work, Schwa.
Some refinements still needed:
1. Clefs: These are squashed up to the leftmost barline - there should be a small space between the barline and the clef.
2. Key signatures: accidentals should not touch or collide.
Here's a visual comparison to illustrate:
MuseScore (v2.0.2):
Reaper (v5.2pre8):
Last edited by Xasman; 01-14-2024 at 07:05 AM.
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02-21-2016, 03:48 PM
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#362
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,030
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reddiesel41264
@pccartwright
These FRs have now been implemented: #23, #25, #33
FR #7 and FR #27 are essentially the same I think - it's the second #27 btw (I just realised there's an error in the numbering)
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woops. fixed.
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02-21-2016, 04:25 PM
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#363
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 673
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Issues with dynamics positioning:
1. Dynamics should default to being centered below the note to which they are attached (at present, they are left-aligned by default to a point below the centre of the note - effectively making the dynamic position slightly to the right of the note). Dynamic markings can appear to the left but no dynamic marking should ever appear to the right of the note to which it applies (because the performer needs to see, and take note of, the dynamic marking *before* playing the note).
2. Free dynamic positioning helps, but it's fiddly to centre dynamics this way. Most importantly though, it seems currently impossible to position a dynamic marking to the left of the default position in the first note in a bar, e.g.:
Last edited by Xasman; 01-14-2024 at 07:05 AM.
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02-21-2016, 08:45 PM
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#364
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,030
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I haven't tried moving dynamics left-right yet. Do they respond to grid snap? That would be the ideal state as a note could have multiple dynamics (whole note cresc from piano to forte, etc.).
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02-22-2016, 01:59 AM
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#365
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 673
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcartwright
I haven't tried moving dynamics left-right yet. Do they respond to grid snap? That would be the ideal state as a note could have multiple dynamics (whole note cresc from piano to forte, etc.).
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Yes, dynamics snap to grid by default - shift+drag overrides. Either way though, it's not currently possible to drag further left than the first snap point in the bar. Come to think of it, an option to change alignment of the dynamic markings would be useful...
e.g. where | is the snap point (i.e. the point on the dynamic marking which snaps to the grid):
either
| pp (left-aligned - current and least useful)
or
p| p (centre-aligned - should probably be default)
or
pp| (right-aligned - also useful)
In fact, we probably need only the centre- and right-aligned modes...
Last edited by Xasman; 02-22-2016 at 03:36 AM.
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02-22-2016, 02:15 AM
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#366
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Reflection Free Zone
Posts: 3,026
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True, dynamic markings should be able to be moved left of the first grid line.
ALSO - Can we have play cursor and edit cursor separate, as in the piano roll editor?
Currently edit cursor position can't be set by mouse click without causing the play cursor to jump to that position.
Will this come with some Notation editor mouse modifiers?
I can set edit position during playback via certain actions that I have mapped, but this issue (of unwanted seeking) bugged me for years in the piano editor before some other people made enough noise about it.
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02-22-2016, 03:37 AM
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#367
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 673
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Feature request
Flip Stems (up or down): Since stem direction sometimes depends on context, the ability to flip stems (as per the "x" command in MuseScore) and tuplet markings/brakets manually, *regardless* of voice or MIDI channel would be very useful.
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02-22-2016, 05:35 AM
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#368
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Earth
Posts: 947
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Will Reaper have notation for drum kits? That would be awesome!
__________________
Get Kick-Ass Drum Tracks @ www.hugoribeiro.com
Macbook Pro | Audient ID44+ASP880 | Apogee Duet 2
Sonor Drums | Sabian Cymbals | Remo Drumheads | Vater Drumsticks
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02-22-2016, 05:37 AM
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#369
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Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 15,749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HugoRibeiroDotCom
Will Reaper have notation for drum kits? That would be awesome!
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Please offer up any suggestions for percussion notation.
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02-22-2016, 05:57 AM
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#370
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
Please offer up any suggestions for percussion notation.
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We should be able to choose the symbol for each notehead, rather than changing the note shape globally per notation editor instance. We should also be able to have drum maps that convert standard drum notation to actual MIDI notes that are supposed to be played.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percussion_notation
Ideally the drum map would contain both the MIDI note to notation position correlation as well as the notehead type for each entry.
Last edited by EvilDragon; 02-22-2016 at 06:07 AM.
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02-22-2016, 08:00 AM
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#371
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Spain
Posts: 54
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Staff Folder FR
Hello!
Please add an option to display more than one track on one musical staff!
It would be natural to locate the control of it in the Track List area. A button "Media items on this track are (not) listed" is not used for the notation editor - so let it work similar with folders in the track panel in three positions:
1 This is first track in a staff folder (down arrow)
2 This track is not in staff folder (right arrow)
3 This is last track in a staff folder (up arrow)
Let this tool be an option for the voice separation as well.
Please! I could not find this feature in any daw. But I need it so very much especially for my huge orchestra scores.
Thanks!
Dmitriy
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02-22-2016, 08:20 AM
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#372
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lincoln, UK
Posts: 7,924
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
We should be able to choose the symbol for each notehead, rather than changing the note shape globally per notation editor instance. We should also be able to have drum maps that convert standard drum notation to actual MIDI notes that are supposed to be played.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percussion_notation
Ideally the drum map would contain both the MIDI note to notation position correlation as well as the notehead type for each entry.
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Following-on from what ED has said, I think we need to start a percussion-notation guide thread or document here in the forum as percussion notation is different to melodic notation. We can provide sensible ideas and information from, and using this, that will help Schwa write a decent percussion mapping editor. There seem to be plenty of notation users here to home in on a manual of "good practice" and notation explanation.
Ultimately this guide and some percussion mapping presets should help any user display their drum/percussion MIDI as dots. Maybe the guide can be accessed through the Action list or help menu, and/or downloaded as PDF or similar at a later, more mature stage in the notation editor's development.
Essentially, the mapping should consist of note to line and note-head rows, but some (eg Hi-hat trigger notes) need to consider CC values to determine the notes' dot status. I'm not enough of an expert here to contribute on other "notation punctuation" and how might relate to percussion MIDI, but I'm sure other users will add to the picture.
Edit: I hadn't considered what MM&U has added, with drum rudiments and their shorthand symbold. Perhaps the guide might be more of a good idea, as many users who might be use normal notation would not be so familiar with the convention for drums. That wiki page is certinly a good start!
>
Last edited by planetnine; 02-22-2016 at 08:27 AM.
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02-22-2016, 09:10 AM
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#373
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,598
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The one alteration we will have to look at pertaining to the notation view being locked to the midi editor is Percussion Notation. It should line up with GM General Midi.
Otherwise when you put the notes in the notation view it won't trigger anything. It need to trigger the appropriate notes. Addictive drums and too track have settings for GM.
This link between the notes on the percussion line and the GM is VERY important.
http://www.finalemusic.com/UserManua...ussionMaps.htm
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02-22-2016, 09:12 AM
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#374
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: North East UK
Posts: 493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by memyselfandus
The one alteration we will have to look at pertaining to the notation view being locked to the midi editor is Percussion Notation. It should line up with GM General Midi.
Otherwise when you put the notes in the notation view it won't trigger anything. It need to trigger the appropriate notes. Addictive drums and too track have settings for GM.
This link between the notes on the percussion line and the GM is VERY important.
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It should be customisable because not all drum sample libraries follow the GM standard, and the GM standard is limited
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02-22-2016, 09:29 AM
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#375
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,598
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02-22-2016, 09:33 AM
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#376
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,598
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reddiesel41264
It should be customisable because not all drum sample libraries follow the GM standard, and the GM standard is limited
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Agreed. Loading customized note names text file could determine what notes are triggered in percussion view? No idea how. Hopefully GM and note names file by default option in prefs.
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02-22-2016, 09:36 AM
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#377
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,598
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Being able to paste in all the standard rudiments and flam stuff would be killer!!!
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02-22-2016, 09:54 AM
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#379
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,598
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar
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Cool!
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02-22-2016, 10:31 AM
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#380
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
Please offer up any suggestions for percussion notation.
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Heya Schwa - this is the resources page for the 4th year seminar I'm taking right now on MIDI drums and percussion. The links are worth checking out.
https://drumperc.wordpress.com/resources/
The "broad brush strokes" outline is that for drumkit, instruments played by the foot (kick, foot-closed hi hat) are notated/beamed stems down, instruments played by the hand are notated/beamed stems up (there are some exceptions when this would decrease clarity rather than increase it). It's a two-voice system (foot/hand) and both voices should make musical sense and be musically complete when viewed separately. "Shell" drums like toms and kick are notated with regular note heads; cymbals are notated with other note heads as indicated etc.
Last edited by kerryg; 02-22-2016 at 01:46 PM.
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02-22-2016, 11:40 AM
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#381
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,598
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerryg
Heya Schwa - this is the resources page for the 4th year seminar I'm taking right now on MIDI drums and percussion. The links are worth checking out.
https://drumperc.wordpress.com/resources/
The "broad brush strokes" outline is that instruments played by the foot (kick, foot-closed hi hat) are notated/beamed stems down, instruments played by the hand are notated/beamed stems up (there are some exceptions when this would decrease clarity rather than increase it). It's a two-voice system (foot/hand) and both voices should make musical sense and be musically complete when viewed separately. "Shell" drums like toms and kick are notated with regular note heads; cymbals are notated with other note heads as indicated etc.
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Nice!
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02-22-2016, 11:59 AM
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#382
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,598
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Single line percussion or staff line PLEASE
With rhythm slash option too
For rhythms!
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02-22-2016, 12:15 PM
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#383
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by memyselfandus
Single line percussion or staff line PLEASE
With rhythm slash option too
For rhythms!
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Slash notation will be particularly important once chord name events are implemented. Sibelius handles this by letting you insert slash heads on notes (with and without beams); Logic handles this by allowing you to convert rests to slashes (a bit less controllable).
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02-22-2016, 01:15 PM
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#384
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Earth
Posts: 947
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
Please offer up any suggestions for percussion notation.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
We should be able to choose the symbol for each notehead, rather than changing the note shape globally per notation editor instance. We should also be able to have drum maps that convert standard drum notation to actual MIDI notes that are supposed to be played.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percussion_notation
Ideally the drum map would contain both the MIDI note to notation position correlation as well as the notehead type for each entry.
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What ED said!!!!
__________________
Get Kick-Ass Drum Tracks @ www.hugoribeiro.com
Macbook Pro | Audient ID44+ASP880 | Apogee Duet 2
Sonor Drums | Sabian Cymbals | Remo Drumheads | Vater Drumsticks
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02-22-2016, 02:01 PM
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#385
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: mcr:uk
Posts: 3,889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
We should be able to choose the symbol for each notehead, rather than changing the note shape globally per notation editor instance. We should also be able to have drum maps that convert standard drum notation to actual MIDI notes that are supposed to be played.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percussion_notation
Ideally the drum map would contain both the MIDI note to notation position correlation as well as the notehead type for each entry.
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Spot on. We need to map note-numbers individually to both staff line and note-head symbol. Slash notation and repeat marks are also important if they can be implemented.
If you can, get a copy of the book mentioned in the wikipedia link - Norman Weinberg’s Guide To Standardized Drumset Notation (2002, ISBN 0-9664928-1-1).). That's the bible, not universally accepted but it's the closest thing we have to a standard.
If REAPER could do decent drum notation that would be awesome.
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02-22-2016, 02:43 PM
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#386
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 13,333
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Reaper 5 pre8 32bit, Windows 7 64bit. The same bug:
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02-22-2016, 02:46 PM
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#387
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IXix
Spot on. We need to map note-numbers individually to both staff line and note-head symbol. Slash notation and repeat marks are also important if they can be implemented.
If you can, get a copy of the book mentioned in the wikipedia link - Norman Weinberg’s Guide To Standardized Drumset Notation (2002, ISBN 0-9664928-1-1).). That's the bible, not universally accepted but it's the closest thing we have to a standard.
If REAPER could do decent drum notation that would be awesome.
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Indeed. If that's too much or too late, then at least for drum kit, in the course outline link above there's a pretty comprehensive 13-page PDF and a short form drum key here that are pretty in line with authorities like the Percussive Arts Society.
https://drumperc.files.wordpress.com...itkeynt091.pdf
https://drumperc.files.wordpress.com.../notation1.pdf
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02-22-2016, 03:22 PM
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#388
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Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 15,749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vitalker
Reaper 5 pre8 32bit, Windows 7 64bit. The same bug:
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It's not a bug that you can edit notes to be very far away from their staff, the bug would be if you can drag the note to somewhere that you can no longer grab it with the mouse.
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02-22-2016, 03:29 PM
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#389
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 13,333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
It's not a bug that you can edit notes to be very far away from their staff, the bug would be if you can drag the note to somewhere that you can no longer grab it with the mouse.
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Nope. Is it normal that notes aren't in the same bar, but you see it like they are on the same?
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02-22-2016, 03:33 PM
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#390
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,030
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You're saying it's an issue of staff spacing/collision?
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02-22-2016, 03:37 PM
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#391
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Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 15,749
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We'll eventually add an octave notation to handle this, but for now, notes will be displayed even if they are very far from their staff, even if this means they are drawn over a different staff. The alternative would be to hide these notes, which wouldn't be good, at least as a default. Far-away notes can exist in the MIDI (recorded, edited elsewhere, etc) so you need to be able to edit them in the notation editor, at least by default.
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02-22-2016, 03:44 PM
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#392
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Reflection Free Zone
Posts: 3,026
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Well thanks for giving us the option to hide 'far from staff notes' anyway. It is very much appreciated!
When using ie VSL strings in the Kontakt 5 Library, and there are 4-5 keyswitches per instrument, you absolutely definitely do not want these shown on the notation.
Currently however for me to write a standard classical guitar part on one clef (treble -8) with Spicy VSTi the notation editor is not up to it, because the part can have 3 ledger lines and the hide action is set to two ledger lines. And spicy has some articulations that are keyswitched.
Last edited by hamish; 02-22-2016 at 03:50 PM.
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02-22-2016, 03:58 PM
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#393
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 13,333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
at least by default.
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Ok, understand. Thank you. Btw, the bug with notes above the staff is still here
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02-22-2016, 04:00 PM
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#394
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 19
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Request: staff input method
Hello,
As for notation editor, Cakewalk sonar adopts a sort of filtering method, that is, one can usually drag & input staff notes diatonically. If you want input accidentals, you should drag staff while pushing right button. I think this method is very smart.
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02-22-2016, 09:01 PM
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#395
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,598
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Rhythm slashes
These
And these
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02-22-2016, 09:12 PM
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#396
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,598
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Custom symbols like this in notation or piano roll view would be incredible. Users could just add anything.
https://i.imgur.com/7zmG6Xs.jpg
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02-22-2016, 10:34 PM
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#397
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Spain
Posts: 54
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a track is inside the staff folder
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaDim
It would be natural to locate the control of it in the Track List area. A button "Media items on this track are (not) listed" is not used for the notation editor - so let it work similar with folders in the track panel in three positions:
1 This is first track in a staff folder (down arrow)
2 This track is not in staff folder (right arrow)
3 This is last track in a staff folder (up arrow)
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I forgot to mention one more arrow position when a track is inside the staff folder (maybe an empty checkbox)
Thanks!
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02-22-2016, 10:59 PM
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#398
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 84
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Guitar tab would be great
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02-23-2016, 07:30 AM
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#399
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by memyselfandus
Rhythm slashes
These
And these
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+1 and with chords! :-)
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02-23-2016, 08:01 AM
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#400
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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Quote:
Originally Posted by memyselfandus
Rhythm slashes
These
And these
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YESYESYESYESYES Y E S!!!!! Essential IMO
In my dreams we could also have the staircase symbol and diamonds?
(for the Nashville numbers system)
__________________
Ici on parles Franglais
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