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Old 12-23-2008, 08:22 PM   #1
planktonic_tcw
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Default Request: Please, please change OS X reaper install instructions/design

I learned the hard as others in this forum have that doing a OS X Reaper upgrade using the supplied instructions can be pretty hazardous.


Here are the current notes from the readme:
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Note: to install, copy the REAPER/ folder in its entirety to your local hard disk! You must keep REAPER.app and the associated directories together!
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I assumed given no other instructions that an upgrade would be the same procedure.

Doing this for an upgrade using Finder replaces the entire REAPER directory deleting all files in the directory, which was news to me being a new OS X user. Any old files don't go to the trash and undo doesn't undo. Even if I knew better I will still have a painful process of manually selecting which files to copy over or use command line tools to copy merge-style.


The supplied instructions I think would only make sense if users were never expected to put files in the REAPER directory, but then why not just keep all the /REAPER/ stuff inside the Reaper.app bundle as other apps do? I love the principal of keeping everything together under a single dir structure, but with this issue, I hope Cockos will rethink this design. Maybe someone in the Reaper community could create a Mac installer which basically does the REAPER dir copy merge style as the Reaper installer works under Windows and give it to Cockos. That is, unless you guys already have plans for dealing with this.



Overly grumpy because I lost work and will now be better about having my time machine backup drive plugged in,
Tom
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Old 12-24-2008, 06:09 PM   #2
jdriver
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Default another way

To avoid this you can open the downloaded Reaper folder, select all and drag to Applications/Reaper, rather than copying the Reaper folder itself. I copy over everything but ColorThemes. Then drop another copy of the MP3 dylib in the plug ins and you're good to go.
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Old 01-05-2009, 08:51 PM   #3
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I always keep a backup of my Colorthemes and Keymaps in a safe place.

All my audio goes into it's own folders elsewhere on the drive.

If you don't save your project first in a new location Reaper defaults to saving audio in the root folder.

Best practice is setting up Reaper to ASK you to name and save every new project so they don't end up in the root folder with the chance of being overwritten.
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Old 01-05-2009, 09:45 PM   #4
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what would be great is if there was a vise type installer in which you could specify toretain your colorthemes for the new install, but hey whatever
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Old 01-05-2009, 10:53 PM   #5
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I think we'll have a nice lil' package for the next prerelease...

-Justin
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Old 01-06-2009, 07:34 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasandi View Post
what would be great is if there was a vise type installer in which you could specify toretain your colorthemes for the new install, but hey whatever
Ugh, installers on the Mac... I hate those.

I think the point of app packages is, like the OP said, to contain everything relevant to the app. There should be one Reaper icon that you can drag to the trash (or more likely, to a USB stick) if needed.
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Old 01-06-2009, 03:51 PM   #7
Ben Srokosz
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Default or.........

Or the download page could simply offer a "installer package" and the "classic install" method we are all currently using.

Then we can decide which install method to use.

Personally, when I upgrade my reaper to new releases, I just copy and paste the whole folder and all my "files" are stored in a completely separate location on my HD to avoid accidental overwriting...deletes, etc.

But I'll welcome an installer that is smart and simply upgrades rather than overwriting. Can't wait!
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Old 01-06-2009, 09:39 PM   #8
mahasandi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxOfSnoo View Post
Ugh, installers on the Mac... I hate those.

I think the point of app packages is, like the OP said, to contain everything relevant to the app. There should be one Reaper icon that you can drag to the trash (or more likely, to a USB stick) if needed.
sure i dont get the ugh part though.
i mean you choose what you want to install; custom install?
again no big deal either way right?
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Old 01-07-2009, 12:04 AM   #9
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I've gone back and forth on this, especially as I've been updating installations of the Alpha builds regularly.

The one thing that has bothered me is that most apps put all of those support files in the Library folder (many automatically do this on first launch so they still don't require a dedicated installer program). Although it isn't documented (that I've seen), Reaper also does this for a few preference, preset, and template files. I had a hell of a time tracking them down when they were corupt because I assumed that Reaper kept everything in the App folder. (What was the reason for this un-maclike folder in my Apps otherwise?)

Installer or no, it seems to me that unless ALL Reaper files can stay together, Cockos should follow Apple guidelines: just the Reaper.app goes in the apps folder and everything else goes into ~/Library/Support Files/Reaper. (Since the "Data", "Plugins", "Color Themes", and "Effects" folders are subject to customization, they would be better kept out of the Apps folder or .app package/Reaper folder.)
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Old 01-07-2009, 09:24 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasandi View Post
sure i dont get the ugh part though.
i mean you choose what you want to install; custom install?
again no big deal either way right?
Installers are the Windows way. It's too easy to scatter things all over the system. Making it difficult to uninstall, upgrade and/or move the app.

The most common Mac way is to enclose all support files within the package itself - it's basically just a special folder. To install you just drag the package to the applications folder and you're done. If you want to copy or move it to a USB drive, for instance, you just drag it over. It should work on another person's system without hassle. If you wanted to have a beta version along with a stable release version, it should be simple, just rename one of them or store them in different folders.

Now I know there are .pkg files that are installers - and in common use; but these are often for more system-oriented things; things that place files in /Library or something like that. Applications are generally self-contained.
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Old 01-07-2009, 01:42 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxOfSnoo View Post
but these are often for more system-oriented things; things that place files in /Library or something like that. Applications are generally self-contained.
If this were the case, then I would agree that everything should be packaged together in the .app file, however, I think you've overstated how tidy OS X is. It certainly has a well-earned reputation for having less intrusive installations than Windows, but almost ALL applications** (whether they use a dedicated installer or not) end up placing files in the ~/Library/Application Support/ folder. Apple actually encourages this for good reason: they are "support" files which can be created/modified by users (plugs/templates etc.)

That said, we still don't need an installer, but the "Data", "Plugins", "Color Themes", and "Effects" folders should join the "FXChains", "TrackTemplates", & "Project Templates" in the Library.

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Old 01-07-2009, 03:43 PM   #12
mahasandi
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I hear you on that element , but i don't mind installers with a real "uninstall" option.
it really comes down to whos writing the installer and in this case we are in good hands
no matter what he decided.

also keep in mind that a folder with the app in it method or, if the installer is not told to scatter; will accomplish an identical process, one is scripted.
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Old 01-07-2009, 04:33 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bink View Post
If this were the case, then I would agree that everything should be packaged together in the .app file, however, I think you've overstated how tidy OS X is. It certainly has a well-earned reputation for having less intrusive installations than Windows, but almost ALL applications** (whether they use a dedicated installer or not) end up placing files in the ~/Library/Application Support/ folder. Apple actually encourages this for good reason: they are "support" files which can be created/modified by users (plugs/templates etc.)

That said, we still don't need an installer, but the "Data", "Plugins", "Color Themes", and "Effects" folders should join the "FXChains", "TrackTemplates", & "Project Templates" in the Library.
Right... Those files should ideally not be placed there by an installer, but by the application itself. That lends much better to copying the .app folder to a USB drive, and running it on another Mac.

PLUS, the things that are there shouldn't be version-dependent, I'm not sure what the Apple guidelines say about that but it would make sense to me.

The folder you mentioned is more likely to be cleaned up with something like AppZapper, an uninstaller wouldn't (and shouldn't) touch that stuff anyway.
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