Old 01-07-2012, 03:43 PM   #1
brainwreck
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,859
Default Low latency impulse reverb

Are any of you using reverb impulses at low latency, without how cpu use? I have played around with Reaverb, but I never found anything that works without stuttering and high cpu use.
__________________
It's time to take a stand against the synthesizer.
brainwreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2012, 04:12 PM   #2
Tod
Human being with feelings
 
Tod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kalispell
Posts: 14,745
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brainwreck View Post
Are any of you using reverb impulses at low latency, without how cpu use? I have played around with Reaverb, but I never found anything that works without stuttering and high cpu use.
Hi brainwreck, I use up to 3 or 4 instances of Reaverb with impulses on almost every project without any problems. I don't do anything special, just import the IR files.

However, when I'm recording something, especially midi I mute them to avoid the latency they create.
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2012, 04:39 PM   #3
brainwreck
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,859
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Hi brainwreck, I use up to 3 or 4 instances of Reaverb with impulses on almost every project without any problems. I don't do anything special, just import the IR files.

However, when I'm recording something, especially midi I mute them to avoid the latency they create.
I take it that doing lush reverbs at zero latency isn't going to happen. Sorry, I'm ignorant on how convolution works.
__________________
It's time to take a stand against the synthesizer.
brainwreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2012, 04:50 PM   #4
stratman
Human being with feelings
 
stratman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Exmouth, England
Posts: 2,687
Default

Reverberate runs at zero latency with reasonably low CPU useage.

http://www.liquidsonics.com/software_reverberate.htm

Pete
stratman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2012, 05:32 PM   #5
Tod
Human being with feelings
 
Tod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kalispell
Posts: 14,745
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brainwreck View Post
I take it that doing lush reverbs at zero latency isn't going to happen. Sorry, I'm ignorant on how convolution works.
Actually it's only during recording that they cause a problem and even then only if the audio output for the track you're recording goes to the convoverb. For just playback there is no problem.

In all honesty I'm no guru to Convo-Verbs, I've never taken the time to research the info. I just use them because I like them.

If I'm recording something like vocals, guitar, etc. that I want verb on while recording I usually insert an outboard verb and feed that and the main signal to the monitors and/or headphones.

However, when I'm working with midi and VSTis I either do without verb while I'm recording the midi or use a regular non-impulse verb for recording and then switch to convo when I'm done.
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2012, 05:41 PM   #6
brainwreck
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,859
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stratman View Post
Reverberate runs at zero latency with reasonably low CPU useage.

http://www.liquidsonics.com/software_reverberate.htm

Pete
I was interested in trying to make use of Reaverb, since I already have it. I'll keep Reverberate in mind, though.
__________________
It's time to take a stand against the synthesizer.
brainwreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2012, 08:16 PM   #7
brainwreck
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,859
Default

Stratman, I was curious and went ahead and downloaded Reverbate LE. It sounds freaking nice. My impression of convolution reverb was wrong, is all I can say......must find more impulses to see what this thing will do well.

If these guys can do this with reverb impulses at low cpu, low latency, why aren't they do something like Nebula? And why aren't more people talking about Reverbate in threads about reverbs? Oh well, secret weapon. Thanks Stratman.
__________________
It's time to take a stand against the synthesizer.

Last edited by brainwreck; 01-07-2012 at 08:27 PM.
brainwreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2012, 09:41 PM   #8
chriscomfort
Human being with feelings
 
chriscomfort's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,805
Default

I use Guitar Rig 4's Reflektor on vocals both during tracking and mixing. I think it sounds great. Granted, I'm not running any VSTi's and very little else during the tracking, as my computer is over 6 years old (i.e. I'll freeze before tracking vox). But it works well.
__________________
http://chriscomfortmusic.com
chriscomfort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2012, 10:57 AM   #9
Analogy
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 871
Default

There is absolutely no reason that a convolution reverb should add latency. Zero. Zilch. None. Any convolution reverb software that adds latency on regular reverb impulses is badly designed.
Analogy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2012, 11:11 AM   #10
EpicSounds
Human being with feelings
 
EpicSounds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 7,568
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stratman View Post
Reverberate runs at zero latency with reasonably low CPU useage.

http://www.liquidsonics.com/software_reverberate.htm

Pete
did they fix the knob behavior yet?
__________________
REAPER Video Tutorials, Tips & Tricks and more at The REAPER Blog
EpicSounds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2012, 11:25 AM   #11
Tod
Human being with feelings
 
Tod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kalispell
Posts: 14,745
Default

Something I neglected to mention, I've not tried the ZL option in ReaVerb, but that might make a difference. If I get the chance I'll try that today.
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2012, 01:46 PM   #12
brainwreck
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,859
Default

This is old news to some of you, but Reverberate LE (liquidsonics.com) + Bricasti M7 impulses (samplecity.com) = awesomeness. I will have to swing for the full Reverberate at some point for the modulation and other features.
__________________
It's time to take a stand against the synthesizer.
brainwreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2012, 01:48 PM   #13
brainwreck
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,859
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Analogy View Post
There is absolutely no reason that a convolution reverb should add latency. Zero. Zilch. None. Any convolution reverb software that adds latency on regular reverb impulses is badly designed.
That's interesting. I wonder why so many do have latency?
__________________
It's time to take a stand against the synthesizer.
brainwreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2012, 02:02 PM   #14
Tod
Human being with feelings
 
Tod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kalispell
Posts: 14,745
Default

brainwreck, does Reverberate LE have True Stereo?
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2012, 02:05 PM   #15
brainwreck
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,859
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
brainwreck, does Reverberate LE have True Stereo?
It sounds like stereo to me. Sorry, I didn't know that there are true stereo, pseudo stereo plugins.
__________________
It's time to take a stand against the synthesizer.
brainwreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2012, 02:12 PM   #16
chriscomfort
Human being with feelings
 
chriscomfort's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,805
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
brainwreck, does Reverberate LE have True Stereo?
No, according to the comparison chart LE does not provide True Stereo. I'm sure it is however a stereo plug in.
__________________
http://chriscomfortmusic.com
chriscomfort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2012, 02:13 PM   #17
brainwreck
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,859
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscomfort View Post
No, according to the comparison chart LE does not provide True Stereo. I'm sure it is however a stereo plug in.
Yea, I just saw this, too. So, what is the difference in true stereo and what Reverberate LE is doing?

Edit: They have a page with that info here: http://www.liquidsonics.com/software...rue_stereo.htm
__________________
It's time to take a stand against the synthesizer.
brainwreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2012, 02:19 PM   #18
gibi25
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: France
Posts: 2,899
Default

No, reverberate LE is not true stereo (the full version does)
gibi25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2012, 02:30 PM   #19
brainwreck
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,859
Default

It still sounds very good here. I'm wondering if some of the other reverb plugins that I use are true stereo - Epicverb, Ambience, Classic Reverb.
__________________
It's time to take a stand against the synthesizer.
brainwreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2012, 02:33 PM   #20
brainwreck
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,859
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicSounds View Post
did they fix the knob behavior yet?
Do you mean the lack of precise control?
__________________
It's time to take a stand against the synthesizer.
brainwreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2012, 03:10 PM   #21
Tod
Human being with feelings
 
Tod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kalispell
Posts: 14,745
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brainwreck View Post
It sounds like stereo to me. Sorry, I didn't know that there are true stereo, pseudo stereo plugins.
Then its MtoS (mono to stereo) which sounds stereo and will show up that way on the meters. From my understanding you basically have 3 configurations:

1> MtoS: Mono in Stereo out. (Probably uses various delays and other means to create the stereo)
2> True stereo: Stereo in Stereo out. (Two mics in a stereo configuration)
3> Parallel: Left to Reft, Right to Right. (What comes in the left goes out the left, What comes in the right goes out the right.

What I've mentioned is that I'm no guru but that's kind of my understanding at this point.
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2012, 03:52 PM   #22
stratman
Human being with feelings
 
stratman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Exmouth, England
Posts: 2,687
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brainwreck View Post
It still sounds very good here. I'm wondering if some of the other reverb plugins that I use are true stereo - Epicverb, Ambience, Classic Reverb.
There's info on reverbs at the link below, including contributions from Liquidsonics and Vallhalla dsp.

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=67620

Pete
stratman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2012, 04:10 PM   #23
brainwreck
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,859
Default

Thanks for the link.

I guess it wouldn't be a good idea to use Reverberate LE on a stereo bus.
__________________
It's time to take a stand against the synthesizer.
brainwreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2012, 06:00 PM   #24
EpicSounds
Human being with feelings
 
EpicSounds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 7,568
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brainwreck View Post
Do you mean the lack of precise control?
I mean the really jumpy knobs. I don't like when you click a knob and it immediately changes setting to where you clicked, rather than grabbing control.
Gain staging was weird on it too last time I tried it. Really easy to get extreme levels out of it.
__________________
REAPER Video Tutorials, Tips & Tricks and more at The REAPER Blog
EpicSounds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2012, 06:07 PM   #25
brainwreck
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,859
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicSounds View Post
I mean the really jumpy knobs. I don't like when you click a knob and it immediately changes setting to where you clicked, rather than grabbing control.
Gain staging was weird on it too last time I tried it. Really easy to get extreme levels out of it.
I agree, the knobs aren't good.
__________________
It's time to take a stand against the synthesizer.
brainwreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2012, 11:13 PM   #26
Analogy
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 871
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brainwreck View Post
That's interesting. I wonder why so many do have latency?
My guess is that it has something to do with optimization... There's two basic ways of doing convolution, both of which require two buffers the size of the impulse, and the way that results in zero latency requires many more writes to one of the buffers.
Analogy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 07:56 AM   #27
Quest The Wordsmith
Human being with feelings
 
Quest The Wordsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Shaolin => NJ
Posts: 1,213
Default

Has anyone tried SIR? I used both SIR and Reverberate when I was using Sony Acid 7. Since I made the majority switch to Reaper, I actually haven't used either at all.

One thing I noticed about Reverberate in Acid was when I recalled a project, the impulse sounded different, as if the settings were messed with. But the settings were all the same. I'd have to reload the plugin. Anyone found any such issue in Reaper?

Just a side note, Reaper has great in replacing Acid for many a "buggy" plugins. They don't bug out in Reaper the way they did in Acid. Just my 2 cents.
__________________
freestylefam.com
Quest The Wordsmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 09:50 AM   #28
chip mcdonald
Human being with feelings
 
chip mcdonald's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: NA - North Augusta South Carolina
Posts: 4,294
Default

Reaverb seems to use a slight less amount of cpu, but it seems sort of glitchy in a random way. Reverberate seems a little more consistent for whatever reason.
__________________
]]] guitar lessons - www.chipmcdonald.com [[[
WEAR A FRAKKING MASK!!!!
chip mcdonald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 10:23 AM   #29
Tod
Human being with feelings
 
Tod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kalispell
Posts: 14,745
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
Reaverb seems to use a slight less amount of cpu, but it seems sort of glitchy in a random way. Reverberate seems a little more consistent for whatever reason.
Hey chip, can you explain what you mean by glitchy? Do you use the ZL option?

I have noticed on a few occasions if I make some small change like in a send or possibly even a mute, it might click/pop on first play but when I stop and play again it's usually gone.
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2012, 05:19 PM   #30
chopstickkk
Human being with feelings
 
chopstickkk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 120
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
brainwreck, does Reverberate LE have True Stereo?
See tutorial here about true stereo convolution in Reaper using Reaverb. Would probably work with Reverberate too I think if memory serves, as I used to use it.

http://chopstickkk.posterous.com/tru...eaper-for-free

Regarding Reaverb ZL option that works very well for me with 5+ instances on a 4 year old core 2 duo laptop no glitches sub 10ms latency on the soundcard.

Cheers,
John.

Last edited by chopstickkk; 01-13-2012 at 04:36 PM. Reason: Forgot Link
chopstickkk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 10:00 AM   #31
chip mcdonald
Human being with feelings
 
chip mcdonald's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: NA - North Augusta South Carolina
Posts: 4,294
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Hey chip, can you explain what you mean by glitchy? Do you use the ZL option?
Meaning, by itself it's effectively the same, but it seems more prone to causing Reaper to glitch depending on what else I've got running. Or rather, I can run more instantiations of Reverberate and sort of expect it to "behave", Reaverb seems sort of random... suddenly I'll find Reaper is slowing down, and I'll one by one go through everything, turning everything off, and it's Reaverb that seems to be the culprit.

It also seems like an instance of Reaverb + and instance of Reatune = broken down Reaper. It could just be an anomaly of my setup; I'd also attribute Amplitube as being the worst in the "can't really judge what's going to happen if I add it to the project".

Quote:
send or possibly even a mute, it might click/pop on first play but when I stop and play again it's usually gone.
On my quad core Athlon one instance is fine. But there's a point where sometimes I can get 4+ going with no difficulties, then other times if I add just one more for a total of two it's glitching constantly.

On my rinky-dink Atom based laptop at work, 1 instance of Reaverb (for cabinet sim) will occasionally hiccup out of the blue, Reverberate never does in the same circumstance.
__________________
]]] guitar lessons - www.chipmcdonald.com [[[
WEAR A FRAKKING MASK!!!!
chip mcdonald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 10:54 AM   #32
Tod
Human being with feelings
 
Tod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kalispell
Posts: 14,745
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
On my rinky-dink Atom based laptop at work, 1 instance of Reaverb (for cabinet sim) will occasionally hiccup out of the blue, Reverberate never does in the same circumstance.
Thanks chip, I don't seem to be having quite as much trouble as you are with ReaVerb on my Win7 i5 8gig using 32bit(86) setup.

I'm going to have to check into Reverberate.
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2012, 12:44 PM   #33
matv
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 82
Default

Redwirez mixIR2 is very low cpu use.
matv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2012, 01:27 PM   #34
sinkmusic
Human being with feelings
 
sinkmusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: decepticon mothership in a hidden place inside a mountain
Posts: 3,754
Default

http://www.meldaproduction.com/mcrea...onvolution.phpMelda mmultibandconvolution is really great, with zero latency and a decent cpu use.
It also has very nice features.
sinkmusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2012, 03:06 PM   #35
bluzkat
Human being with feelings
 
bluzkat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Northern Michigan
Posts: 6,919
Default

I've really been enjoying using the Melda plugs lately (upgraded the freebies to the pro bundle).

I plan to buy the Creative bundle next week, there are some very cool plugs in there!

As far as reverb... I've been using Reverberate and ValhallaRoom and Reaverbate (cockos).


__________________
Peace...
bluzkat
bluzkat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2012, 10:12 AM   #36
chip mcdonald
Human being with feelings
 
chip mcdonald's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: NA - North Augusta South Carolina
Posts: 4,294
Default

The Melda plugins don't get a lot of publicity, but the ones I've tried have been very solid. I wish I'd noticed the convolution one before I bought the Dynamic Eq plugin, I'm trying it now.

The Redwirez mixIR looks interesting as well, but again it's getting into the package deal territory-conundrum for me.

For some reason, it seems like I'm having some sort of convolution-plugin disaster, as if the closer I get to the oddball assortment of plugins and settings I need - which isn't that many, actually - the more my computer glitches and now slows down.

Which, and I've had this thought in the past, leads me to ask "how do I know Reaper isn't slowing down "imperceptible" amounts routinely?"

Uhg.
__________________
]]] guitar lessons - www.chipmcdonald.com [[[
WEAR A FRAKKING MASK!!!!
chip mcdonald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2012, 02:01 PM   #37
bullshark
Human being with feelings
 
bullshark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: traîne mes guêtres en Québec...
Posts: 5,390
Default

I use NI Reflektor, zero latency and reasonable CPU usage(and x64 if it matters to you, it does me). Since I've gotten this(bundled in Komplete) I haven't found the need for another verb plug.

If not for this one, I probably would have went for the LiquidSonic one. Maybe still will in the future since it offers the advantage of true stereo(Reflektor is parallel stereo), but that advantage is purely academic for me now.
bullshark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2012, 02:18 PM   #38
bullshark
Human being with feelings
 
bullshark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: traîne mes guêtres en Québec...
Posts: 5,390
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sinkmusic View Post
http://www.meldaproduction.com/mcrea...onvolution.phpMelda mmultibandconvolution is really great, with zero latency and a decent cpu use.
It also has very nice features.
Didn't know about that one. Zero latency, nice feature set, nice GUI and reasonable price; sounds like a winner to me. Thanks.
bullshark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 01:04 PM   #39
Publicradio
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 262
Default

This isn't totally on topic, but I'm curious to know how Reaper's latency works.

I was playing with a big stereo spring reverb in Vogengo Impulse, and I noticed that when I took the effect offline, the receives going into it were triggering before they were supposed to, and before they played in their respective channels.

This makes me think that when you press play in Reaper, it calculates the amount of latency in the different channels, triggers these events first to compensate, and waits several milliseconds to play everything else.

Does this mean that when I have my VSTs and soundcard set to 'zero latency', or very low latency, that this only applies to what I'm recording in? I would kind of hope this were the case, because live playing is where I really need low latency to work, and not whatever's playing back along side it.

Let's say I'm playing guitar through a convolution reverb, and I have recorded other parts that are also playing through it. I would want Reaper to process my guitar playing in realtime, but the rest of it could just be buffered -- though, to me, it would sound like it was all going in real time. Does that make sense?
Publicradio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 01:58 PM   #40
bluzkat
Human being with feelings
 
bluzkat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Northern Michigan
Posts: 6,919
Default

Convolution reverbs are notorious for having lots of latency and I would not recommend their use for live work.

Check out some of the 'algo' verbs... like:

http://www.valhalladsp.com/valhallaroom.

This verb gets lots of love around the Reaper forum, check it out (demo available).

__________________
Peace...
bluzkat
bluzkat is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.