Tascam 1641+1800, routing help? 4 diff, hdphone mixes?

[flipotto]

Originally Posted by partonkevin

I didn't think about the MA400 needing power! Luckily, a lightweight extension cord will solve that problem. As far as mounting, a few ideas I've had is to tie it to a mic stand, or cymbal stand for the drummer. I've wanted to make little stands for something like this to also hold headphones when not in use. A piece of 1/2" EMT conduit stuck in a small bucket with concrete would be stable and keep a small footprint. A small table by each musician would also be nice for drinks, cell phone, car keys, etc. Velcro stuck to the back could allow you to attache it to walls, cabinets, whatever.

Tomorrow night for jam test of the ma400s.
I have four of them. For now, I just placed them on top of the amp for guitarist - nice and close, drummer - on some of that no skid stuff you put in a toolbox on the space on the bass drum (does not rattle or anything). No stands yet. I want to see how well it works prior to committing to velcro and maybe some small wall shelf like thing. I have hooks on the wall for headphones - I don't want them stepped on and my space is small.

[flipotto]

Originally Posted by Fergler

Ok that was a lot of reading, but it sounds to me like this is what you need, if you are OK with Mono output:

1. Make a new track for every player
2. Route every other track into them
3. Change the track's output to one of the 4 mono TRS outputs on the back of the 1641 (I have the same unit), record arm, and turn on monitoring.
4. Use Send levels to adjust instruments to the headphones and switch to pre-FX if they don't want to hear guitar delay for e.g. or want an EQ on the drums for more snare sound.
5. If they still aren't shutting up, place a high gain distortion effect on their track and slowly turn up it's mix until they are driven insane.

Some latency may occur here because of the ASIO4ALL drivers (I experienced a lot of issues using ASIO4ALL with anything other than my computer's output).

Thanks for reply - this is turning into a very long essay.

My computer has 40+ms of round trip latency in the 1641 and the 1800 as well as the composite 1641/1800 on a loopback test (input1 to output1) Totally unusable for monitoring for my drummer. I have to use the tdif card for monitoring (manageable latency @ 9ms including reaper)

I was trying direct monitoring but I could not get the drums loud enough for the drummer.

I test current setup tonight.
1 drum overhead mic > MA400 > interface 1800/1641 > Reaper > headphone output from track > maudio tdif card > tmd1000 mixer buss 1-4 > headphone amp chans 1-4 direct input > headphone amp output > MA400 input. Mono mix, for now.

That is a lot of possible problems in that chain that can fail, however, it is what I have at the moment.
I could also probably bypass the headphone amp, if needed.

Drummer can mix his live mic to his own loudness, as well as balance with feed from headphone mix.
Guitars same way.

In theory - everyone will be happy, including me, lots of up front setup. There will be pain during level setting as well...
But - I am hoping not to hear ... I need more me!
If I do - then it is the crushing distortion!

Now I am thinking about vocal fx in the headphone mix.
More to come.

[flipotto]

Jam last night. Bass, drums, 2 guitars, 3 vocal mics.

Worked fine.
This seems anticlimactic after that long thread...

Final setup description.

1800 as input for mics and amps +
1641 as input for mics and amps, using asio4all making them a composite device works well. I set the buffers to 128 on both, enabling both devices. Running XPsp3

The good stuff
Inputs = 16 (8 each device)xlr inputs with input level control + 4 (2 each) 1/4" guitar/line inputs + 8 (4 each) line inputs.
Yielding a total of 28 inputs @ a cost of $365used, $13 per input. Not too shabby. I pride myself on good deals... aka I am really cheap.

The bad stuff

1. Direct input headphone monitoring works(1800/1641), however, with a drummer/band setting - getting a usable level range for headphone monitoring was not workable. This should work, shame on tascam... a mixer application for the 1641/1800, with some routing options for direct input monitoring would be nice. That is never going to happen as these are legacy anyway.

2. Headphone monitoring of inputs from Reaper to the line outputs of either the 1800 or 1641 was not usable, as 50ms latency (even with 128 buffers) is too much - at least for my drummer. Most of this latency was due to round trip loopback test @ 43ms, not due to reaper or buffers. So much for my cheap solution...

****3. I needed another way to get a usable headphone monitoring signal. I did not test using on-board sound card as an output, which may work fine... My choice (likely - no one else will use this however I put it here to encourage considering the possibility of using another interface (not 1641 or 1800)only for monitorinig output) was to use an already install maudio delta tdif pci card only output of monitoring signals. I added it to the asio4all composite being careful to match buffer # of 1800/1641/tdiff and only enabling output. Enabling input and output makes no sound. The Maudio has about 3ms loopback, the listening experience is usable as a monitoring output.
So really this should be included in the good as it works.
My encouragement is for you to try whatever other device you have and use it only for monitoring. I do not plan on testing any other devices as I have a working solution.

So there is the setup - monitoring signals coming out of a separate interface (maudio tdiff).

Using the behringer ma400 is really nice for the "more me" mix. They are cheap $24. I only wish they were phantom powered like my sans amp, they pass phantom power just fine, however a separate wall wort plug is required.
The guys were able to deal with "more me" themselves.

Comments mostly for myself and to tie this up.

1. It works, yeah!

2. Actually working with this setup was pretty easy after it was setup.

3. Adjust separate headphone mixes is not alot of fun, while I am trying to play bass/guitar. I have 4 separate mono headphone mixes.
I will probably scale that back to 1 or 2 stereo headphone mixes, since each has a more me input. It to hard to make all those receive adjustments...

Ok that's a wrap!

[partonkevin]

Thanks for updating this. I was really hoping that you would be able to monitor through Reaper back out from the Tascam.

I hadn't really thought about it, but the MA400 for "more me" would probably work well with just a single stereo mix. This will be a good option for many people.

I'm glad you have have a working setup...from one cheap guy to another!