Old 02-22-2020, 08:36 AM   #1
BlessedOne72
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Salo, Finland .
Posts: 500
Default Laptop won't turn on

So ...

I'm trying to fix a HP Laptop of a friend of mine.
It has Windows 10 installed, that now just bsods, "critical process has died".
Now as I try to install win 7 from a USB-flash disk the PC just powers down, after selecting boot from USB from bios boot menu .
BlessedOne72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2020, 08:38 AM   #2
Coachz
Human being with feelings
 
Coachz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,770
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlessedOne72 View Post
So ...

I'm trying to fix a HP Laptop of a friend of mine.
It has Windows 10 installed, that now just bsods, "critical process has died".
Now as I try to install win 7 from a USB-flash disk the PC just powers down, after selecting boot from USB from bios boot menu .
Does it have a shorted out dead battery? Can you remove the battery and run it off of just the power supply?
Coachz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2020, 09:29 AM   #3
BlessedOne72
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Salo, Finland .
Posts: 500
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz View Post
Does it have a shorted out dead battery? Can you remove the battery and run it off of just the power supply?
... just noticed, that during power on the hdd makes this abnormal crackling sound ;
so I think I'll test it with another hdd .

Or if anyone could recommend a decent and free hdd check tool ?

- BOne -
BlessedOne72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2020, 09:48 AM   #4
Coachz
Human being with feelings
 
Coachz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,770
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlessedOne72 View Post
... just noticed, that during power on the hdd makes this abnormal crackling sound ;
so I think I'll test it with another hdd .

Or if anyone could recommend a decent and free hdd check tool ?

- BOne -
Usually each manufacturer has a utility you can download. So if it's a Seagate get the Seagate tool Etc
Coachz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2020, 10:50 AM   #5
BlessedOne72
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Salo, Finland .
Posts: 500
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz View Post
Usually each manufacturer has a utility you can download. So if it's a Seagate get the Seagate tool Etc
OK ...

Ran the tests in BIOS (mem, hdd) as the system seemed to stay powered on .
and all completed without errors (did not run the long hdd test though, for it would have taken two hours .) ... so it's most propably something to do with Windows .

I noticed, that VT was disabled ... could that be an issue ?

Trying next with Linux / Ubuntu Studio 19.04 x64 .
BlessedOne72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2020, 10:53 AM   #6
Coachz
Human being with feelings
 
Coachz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,770
Default

Those laptops are designed for Windows so I find it hard to believe that Windows would be the problem. If you get the utilities from the manufacturer you can look at the hard drive health instantly as it reads the smart data stored on the drive. Or just download any hard drive utility that reads smart data and it will tell you an overall health of the drive
Coachz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2020, 11:56 AM   #7
serr
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,561
Default

If you can't boot from a known good system installed drive...
(Including an OS install image on a USB stick)

The battery as mentioned.
A failing battery can cause shutdowns even when the machine is plugged in in certain scenarios.
Try to boot with the battery disconnected and the machine plugged in only.

A failing hard drive can cause a kernel panic induced shutdown. If the drive controller is blown up enough, just having it plugged in can corrupt the circuits.
Unplug the internal drive and try booting from the installer flash drive or a clone of your system on another drive.

Try disconnecting other sub-assemblies if there's still no love. (eg. An optical drive.)

Check the ram. You're supposed to get the 3 loud beeps for bad ram but once in a while it goes bad in a way to confuse that error check. No beeps but also no boot.


The bottom line is if you can't get just a logic board with ram to boot from a known good system on a drive (after removing all other variables), then you probably have an actual hardware failure.

If you don't have cloned copies of your system drive kicking around to try booting from and/or if your OS installer you made on a USB stick has never been tested, you kind of need to backtrack and get that in order before you can test other variables.
serr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2020, 12:17 PM   #8
BlessedOne72
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Salo, Finland .
Posts: 500
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post
If you can't boot from a known good system installed drive...
(Including an OS install image on a USB stick)

The battery as mentioned.
A failing battery can cause shutdowns even when the machine is plugged in in certain scenarios.
Try to boot with the battery disconnected and the machine plugged in only.

A failing hard drive can cause a kernel panic induced shutdown. If the drive controller is blown up enough, just having it plugged in can corrupt the circuits.
Unplug the internal drive and try booting from the installer flash drive or a clone of your system on another drive.

Try disconnecting other sub-assemblies if there's still no love. (eg. An optical drive.)

Check the ram. You're supposed to get the 3 loud beeps for bad ram but once in a while it goes bad in a way to confuse that error check. No beeps but also no boot.


The bottom line is if you can't get just a logic board with ram to boot from a known good system on a drive (after removing all other variables), then you probably have an actual hardware failure.

If you don't have cloned copies of your system drive kicking around to try booting from and/or if your OS installer you made on a USB stick has never been tested, you kind of need to backtrack and get that in order before you can test other variables.
No go on Windows, but Ubuntu installation completed on first attempt .
Could it be the power cord / adapter instead of the battery c'os the laptop is not charging at all though it's plugged in .

I can not test the system more for at this very moment we're having stormy weather here and no electricity .

Just typing on a tablet with 55% of charge .
BlessedOne72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2020, 01:33 PM   #9
serr
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,561
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlessedOne72 View Post
No go on Windows, but Ubuntu installation completed on first attempt .
Could it be the power cord / adapter instead of the battery c'os the laptop is not charging at all though it's plugged in .

I can not test the system more for at this very moment we're having stormy weather here and no electricity .

Just typing on a tablet with 55% of charge .
Do you have a known tested and bootable USB installer or a known working clone of your system drive?
If no, that's still a variable. I don't no what difficulties you run into creating a bootable USB drive installer for Windows but the Linux image booting suggests something's up with that installer. (And I'm a Mac user so of course I'm going to go there.)

I'd check that battery. Not charging is a failure mode.
Laptops are designed to run from battery and charge from power. The battery actually delivers more power than the charger. (Shit is designed marginal like that nowadays.) Normal operation when plugged in is to sometimes draw extra power from the battery. If the battery is failing... It might still report it's charged to the computer. Then the computer tries to actually draw power and... clunk.

It could be something messing with you. Maybe that Linux install doesn't include a few drivers (like for your graphics) and maybe the machine is thus booting with some stuff turned off (eg. only integrated GPU with the CPU) and thus not drawing as much power. Going out on a little bit of a limb with that speculation!
serr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2020, 01:51 PM   #10
Ether
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 53
Default

About the battery.
Sometimes it refuse to charge when it's almost zero voltage.
Sensors think it's dead because they can't sense any voltage.
In that case it could help to connect the power just for 5 minutes and disconnect. Count to ten and connect the power again. If this goes well the sensors now can "see" the battery as it got that little bit of voltage to begin with and can charge it.

I have had success 50% of the time with all sorts of litium batteries.
Ether is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2020, 02:13 PM   #11
Coachz
Human being with feelings
 
Coachz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,770
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post
Do you have a known tested and bootable USB installer or a known working clone of your system drive?
If no, that's still a variable. I don't no what difficulties you run into creating a bootable USB drive installer for Windows but the Linux image booting suggests something's up with that installer. (And I'm a Mac user so of course I'm going to go there.)

I'd check that battery. Not charging is a failure mode.
Laptops are designed to run from battery and charge from power. The battery actually delivers more power than the charger. (Shit is designed marginal like that nowadays.) Normal operation when plugged in is to sometimes draw extra power from the battery. If the battery is failing... It might still report it's charged to the computer. Then the computer tries to actually draw power and... clunk.

It could be something messing with you. Maybe that Linux install doesn't include a few drivers (like for your graphics) and maybe the machine is thus booting with some stuff turned off (eg. only integrated GPU with the CPU) and thus not drawing as much power. Going out on a little bit of a limb with that speculation!
The battery cannot be delivering more power than the charger because laptops are designed to run continuously while plugged in which means the charger has to supply more power over time than the battery can supply. Electrical engineer here
Coachz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2020, 02:25 PM   #12
serr
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,561
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz View Post
The battery cannot be delivering more power than the charger because laptops are designed to run continuously while plugged in which means the charger has to supply more power over time than the battery can supply. Electrical engineer here
That would be an intuitive way to design something...
The charger puts out enough power to charge. Charging doesn't require full power. Notice the wording: "charger". It's designed to charge the battery and be used in less than full power draw in a pinch. The laptop power supply is designed to draw from the battery which can supply more power than the charger.
When a battery is connected and reporting as charged, the power supply can and will try to draw full power when needed - which is more than the charger alone can supply. If the battery is failing, it can crap out when this happens.

This is just another scenario where something is designed to just hit a margin.
serr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2020, 02:37 PM   #13
Coachz
Human being with feelings
 
Coachz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,770
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post
That would be an intuitive way to design something...
The charger puts out enough power to charge. Charging doesn't require full power. Notice the wording: "charger". It's designed to charge the battery and be used in less than full power draw in a pinch. The laptop power supply is designed to draw from the battery which can supply more power than the charger.
When a battery is connected and reporting as charged, the power supply can and will try to draw full power when needed - which is more than the charger alone can supply. If the battery is failing, it can crap out when this happens.

This is just another scenario where something is designed to just hit a margin.
The charger should be able to always Supply as much power as is needed by the laptop. Further if the charger is designed properly it will have short circuit protection built into it so even if the battery fails and shorts out the charger will not be damaged. Charging does require full power if the laptop is left on for more than the capacity of the battery which is typically or five hours. This is different than a USB charger which typically does not supply enough power to run a tablet or cell phone
Coachz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2020, 04:07 PM   #14
peter5992
Human being with feelings
 
peter5992's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 10,478
Default

Make sure the power supply (AC adapter) is working ... that turned out to be dodgy on my laptop. Simple replacement is that's what is causing the issue.
peter5992 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2020, 05:25 PM   #15
serr
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,561
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz View Post
The charger should be able to always Supply as much power as is needed by the laptop.
I agree. Just mentioning something I've seen.

Leading to that it's counter intuitive but taking the battery out and plugging it in with AC only is a thing to try.
serr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2020, 05:53 PM   #16
Coachz
Human being with feelings
 
Coachz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,770
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post
I agree. Just mentioning something I've seen.

Leading to that it's counter intuitive but taking the battery out and plugging it in with AC only is a thing to try.
Some laptops are designed to NOT work without a battery but many will. It just depends on the design.
Coachz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2020, 02:26 AM   #17
BlessedOne72
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Salo, Finland .
Posts: 500
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz View Post
Some laptops are designed to NOT work without a battery but many will. It just depends on the design.
Ubuntu Studio 19.04 x64 working happily ;
Windows not, any how any way ???
BlessedOne72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2020, 04:51 AM   #18
ivansc
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
Default

(grin) Press the reset button in Windoze. They have been trying to persuade me to do a fresh reinstall for no apparent reason for ages.

Look under the reset setting
__________________
Ici on parles Franglais
ivansc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2020, 06:51 AM   #19
tspring
Human being with feelings
 
tspring's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Eastern shore of Maryland, USA
Posts: 1,484
Default

Have you tried updating the BIOS/UFEI? A corruption of the BIOS can cause problems with booting. It may be that differences in the ways that Linux and Windows interact with the BIOS causes Windows to encounter a corruption that Linux does not see.

I have had trouble installing Windows from some USB memory sticks. Try a different brand/model stick and also try installing from the optical drive if one is present.

Good luck.

T
tspring is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2020, 07:22 AM   #20
bolgwrad
Human being with feelings
 
bolgwrad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: On my arse in Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 2,032
Default

Yes, what does the BIOS (press F10 or as advised when booting) disk boot order say? Make sure your HDD is in the right boot order sequence (usually 1.DVD 2.HDD 3. USB, HDD2 or whatevuh).
__________________
www.sachetsofrelish.com
bolgwrad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2020, 07:44 AM   #21
Glennbo
Human being with feelings
 
Glennbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 9,055
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlessedOne72 View Post
Ubuntu installation completed on first attempt .
The problem is solved!
__________________
Glennbo
Hear My Music - Click Me!!!
--
Glennbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2020, 09:05 AM   #22
cyrano
Human being with feelings
 
cyrano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Belgium
Posts: 5,246
Default

Smells like a near-empty BIOS backup battery, or a failing backup supercap...

Sometimes that leads to a corrupt BIOS and in this case, it's Windows that has a problem with one of the corrupt settings. Linux OTOH, doesn't care too much about BIOS settings.

And UEFI is a bit worse than old-fashioned BIOS. Part of it resides on the harddisk, in a hidden partition. Especially HP is famous for their tools that bring laptops to their knees...

See if you can find the battery/supercap and replace it; or delve into the BIOS settings and see if they keep changes after power down and a wait?
__________________
In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
George Orwell
cyrano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2020, 11:10 AM   #23
Mavriq
Human being with feelings
 
Mavriq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Thunder Bay, Canada
Posts: 297
Default

Corrupt win install media?
Mavriq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2020, 11:54 AM   #24
serr
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,561
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz View Post
Some laptops are designed to NOT work without a battery but many will. It just depends on the design.
Apple got busted for that with a couple of their newer disposable offerings.


The bottom line is if a known system image that booted the machine in the past suddenly doesn't work anymore and the drive it's on hasn't failed itself, then you have a hardware problem of some kind. Troubleshoot as advised.

If you don't have a known system image to boot from, you're going to have to start there and build and verify that from the ground up. Eliminating obvious variables first and Windows being the piece of work it is... you have to start with this before assuming an actual hardware failure.

PS. If you ARE having battery/power related issues, now would NOT be the time to start blasting firmware! Ever heard a computer beep SOS at you? (That's the error code for corrupt EFI firmware.)
serr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2020, 01:02 PM   #25
Coachz
Human being with feelings
 
Coachz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,770
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post
Apple got busted for that with a couple of their newer disposable offerings.


The bottom line is if a known system image that booted the machine in the past suddenly doesn't work anymore and the drive it's on hasn't failed itself, then you have a hardware problem of some kind. Troubleshoot as advised.

If you don't have a known system image to boot from, you're going to have to start there and build and verify that from the ground up. Eliminating obvious variables first and Windows being the piece of work it is... you have to start with this before assuming an actual hardware failure.

PS. If you ARE having battery/power related issues, now would NOT be the time to start blasting firmware! Ever heard a computer beep SOS at you? (That's the error code for corrupt EFI firmware.)
Also possible if user burned media, might have bit rot.
Coachz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2020, 01:35 PM   #26
serr
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,561
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz View Post
Also possible if user burned media, might have bit rot.
Very true.

It could also be an expired certificate in the installer.
serr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2020, 01:57 PM   #27
Nana
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 58
Default

I've seen this behavior after reusing a USB stick that has been used with MediaCreationTool more than once. This is because there are wrong files remaining and interfering with install.

Try the following:
Open CMD as administrator on a working windows machine.
Connect USB stick (with at least 8GB, obviously) and wait for it to show up in explorer.
On the CMD, call:
diskpart
Then in diskpart call:
list disk
This shows all drives. Be careful to find the USB drive, beause if you get
that wrong, there is substantial risk to the system or data!
Then in diskpart call:
select disk (#of-usb-drive)
You may check with the command
list partition
if you are really on the USB stick.
The next call will erase everything on the USB stick:
clean
create partition primary
select partition 1
active
exit
exit

Properly disconnect the USB stick by "eject".
Reconnect the USB stick.
Format the USB stick. Quick format should do fine. Set a cluster size of 4096 or 8192 and FAT32.
Then use MediaCreationTool1909.exe ( https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=691209 )to download and write a fresh (!) Windows 10 image onto it. Be sure to select 64 bit, if the laptop can handle it.

A HP laptop should run without battery on the original power supply, because it is not only a charger, but a fit power supply.

If the CMOS backup battery is empty, it should just recharge while the laptop stays in UEFI/BIOS or during System HDD test. Even a broken battery lasts for weeks, so no problem there.

If Ubuntu installs, the HDD may still have a defect, because linux is much more tolerant to HDD failure than windows, at least at the beginning. But as the defect grows, one day it kicks out without warning.

You may use GParted in Linux to scan the HDD.
Or https://gparted.org/livecd.php

Or parted magic live. There has been a GPL version 2013_8_10 that you may still find somewhere:
http://mrsebe.bplaced.net/blog/wordpress/?p=80/
With this you can clean the HDD and check for errors.

Then you install Windows on the freshly wiped HDD.

Last edited by Nana; 02-23-2020 at 02:08 PM.
Nana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2020, 02:16 PM   #28
Nana
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 58
Default

Oh, some hardware may just be too new to run Windows 7. Considered that? Try Windows 10 1909 x64.
Nana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2020, 12:23 PM   #29
BlessedOne72
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Salo, Finland .
Posts: 500
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nana View Post
Oh, some hardware may just be too new to run Windows 7. Considered that? Try Windows 10 1909 x64.
I think I've now solved out at least one factor ;
I swapped the HDD .

As previously Win XP SP3 AO Dux made the laptop turn off,
now I've gotten past that point .

I think I'll try some lite Win 7 install now,
c'os the laptop was manufactured with Vista in mind . ():


Thanks for all the replies so far .

- BOne -
BlessedOne72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.