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08-02-2020, 09:45 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 809
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All Guitar Players Read This
Very rarely do I run across a plug-in that I feel the need to shout from the rooftops about. But I recently came across a software program/plug-in that is quite the marvel. No it's not another amp simulator, God knows we have enough of them and I prefer to go straight from string to tube anyway.
But if you are a guitarist who has ever wanted to experiment with MIDI guitar but were never satisfied with the results, or felt the equipment was just ridiculously expensive, let me introduce you to a plug-in called MIDI guitar from Jam Origin company.
This plug-in works with ANY guitar. You do not need a Roland GK pick up or any other equipment. You do not need a Roland synthesizer to plug your GK pick up into. The software works with any guitar and will trigger any of your Reaper VST's.
The software costs about 100 bucks and blows Roland out of the water. It does better for 100 bucks than what thousands of dollars worth of Roland equipment can't seem to do. And it will work with any of your guitars, or for that matter your voice or anything else that produces pitch.
How on earth this little gem of a plug-in has remained below the radar is beyond me. Why Roland has not given this guy millions of dollars to make him go away and protect their market is stupifying. Take your crappy Roland GK pickups and your expensive guitars and limited synthesizer boxes and throw them in the trash. Or better yet sell them on eBay to some unsuspecting fool who has not yet discovered this plug-in.
But how can it work without a GK pick up you ask? I don't know, but I can tell you that it is fully polyphonic and works better than any Roland system I've ever messed with and I have messed with a few.
There are a couple of caveats. Although the plug-in comes with its own internal VST host allowing you to use it as a standalone program I had much better results simply loading it into reaper and using reaper as the VST host and the program simply as a pitch to MIDI triggering system. It looked as though the standalone only wanted to find VST3's. Although I could get it to load the standard VSTs selecting them one at a time the VST host within the program seemed a bit buggy with those. However, here's exactly how I got it to work perfectly in reaper.
In reaper, I took a direct signal from the guitar (using my tuner out on my amp selector pedal) into a track on reaper. I then took a pre-Fader send to another track where I loaded the plug-in. On that track I forced record MIDI. I then sent the output of this track (now forced to MIDI) to another track where I loaded my VST of choice. In fact I loaded numerous VST's in parallel on other tracks as well. Now you can record the MIDI on the one track and your audio output from all your VST's on their tracks.
Even with buffers at 256 the triggering was more than satisfactory. Better than any Roland product I have ever used.
I'm not sure I would recommend this product as a standalone because I think possibly the VST hosting within the plug-in itself could be better. But as a plug-in in reaper used as a pitch to MIDI triggering system it is hands-down worlds above anything else out there.
So if you are guitarist that has always wanted to experiment with MIDI stuff here's your opportunity.
A couple of other points.… If you want to shred then you are looking at the whole opportunity wrong in my opinion. I don't believe there will ever be a pitch to MIDI solution that will work for that type of playing technique. This is because the very nature of the physics involved in identifying pitch. If you are looking for that type of approach you will have to pay top dollar for the guitars that have the frets wired in order to identify where your fingers are on the neck.
That said, the possibilities for amazing textures and sounds are endless. The triggering on this software is rock-solid and the latency is negligible compared to anything else out there (especially if you configure it properly as explained below).
One suggestion... For best results use a clean direct signal from your guitar rather than miking an amp or taking the direct out of an amp. If you want a high gain sound blended with your synthesizers then use a high-quality splitter to send the signal both places. I use voodoo amp selectors for this purpose. They are hard to find now but they are great, no humming or ground issues, no tone loss and no gain loss. There are less expensive solutions out there, some of them work better than others. If you are a tone snob like me who prefers nothing in between the strings and your tubes then choosing the right splitter is important. Cheaper ones will destroy your tone and kill your gain.
As I said before, I've been triggering this now with all of my guitars - acoustic, classical, humbuckers, strats... you name it (using piezos or other pickups on the acoustics). It's pretty good on vocals too!
So sell all your Roland GK's while you can because someday enough people are going to discover this plug-in and Roland can kiss their MIDI guitar business goodbye.
And no, I am in no way affiliated with this company. I benefit in no way from sharing this information with you.
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08-02-2020, 09:46 AM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,572
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its also better than the fishman triple play
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08-02-2020, 11:24 AM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Portsmouth, UK
Posts: 4,376
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Ok, they had me at
Quote:
Download Free trial
No questions asked. No installation needed.
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I'll check it out. Thanks for sharing.
Linky for others:
https://www.jamorigin.com/
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08-02-2020, 12:05 PM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,646
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Sounds very interesting.
Most plugins will not be scanned, eg Air, only XLN and NI here and it does not scan my separate plugin folder at all. But it's a funny plugin, when it will be on sale for 20 Usd maybe...it does not add plugin folders, it only takes some NI plugins, some not, this plugin seems to be a picky baby. Scan one file works sometimes, though, well, yeah, it's a funny plugin and something completely new for me
Last edited by Naji; 08-02-2020 at 02:19 PM.
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08-02-2020, 01:56 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,646
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I do not get the sense of this plugin.
Plugin is funny, but I just play Synth sounds or any other Vsti that will be scanned on guitar instead of my keyboard.
This plugin is for guitarists who do not know to play a keyboard or piano, right?
But it will sound a little strange, not exactly like with keyboard, but it's something new...nice for computer game sounds maybe, can not imagine to use it in a music production. I suppose you have to change your playing style to make it sound more like a synth
Last edited by Naji; 08-02-2020 at 02:20 PM.
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08-02-2020, 02:41 PM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 8
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great plugin
Been using midi guitar 2 for over a year and it is fantastic. Easy to tweak to get best playing results. I agree--it's surprising that more people aren't using this plugin.
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08-02-2020, 02:44 PM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,646
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It is really an interesting plugin, but I know I would maybe use it or check it out for a week and then never use it again, because if I want synth, I will play a synth on a keyboard.
The next thing might be for drummers making them play a sax with their sticks.
What I did not like about the midi guitar plugin is that I could hear the dry guitar when I was performing, even though I had closed headphones. It's not the plugins fault, but you will not hear what it really sounds like until you will have recorded, after tracking, but not while tracking.
And I do not like the high pricing, I mean, it's not a famous company, they could learn from Klanghelm, Tokyo dawn or Kazrog and also Valhalla, their plugins are top notch!
Last edited by Naji; 08-02-2020 at 03:01 PM.
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08-02-2020, 09:51 PM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: France
Posts: 628
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Midi guitar2 is great! Worth every penny imo, there seem to have a lot of R&D involved in thatpiece of soft.
I used it live to add doubling bass synth or pad synth, and it works great.
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08-03-2020, 02:22 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,781
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Did anybody try to use this with some appropriate VSTi to do a decent acoustic guitar performance with an electric Guitar ? As well finger picking as strumming ? As well 6 String and 12 String ?
For this to work really decently I suppose you need Midi MPE to allow for bending single notes (see -> https://jamosapien.com/t/mpe-support-any-time-soon/1638 ). Moreover the Note-Off detection / reproduction might be critical.
If that work I might want to recommend it to my Guitarist, who desperately declines to play an acoustic guitar, claiming his fingers are too short.
-Michael
Last edited by mschnell; 08-03-2020 at 02:50 AM.
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08-03-2020, 03:48 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naji
Sounds very interesting.
Most plugins will not be scanned, eg Air, only XLN and NI here and it does not scan my separate plugin folder at all. But it's a funny plugin, when it will be on sale for 20 Usd maybe...it does not add plugin folders, it only takes some NI plugins, some not, this plugin seems to be a picky baby. Scan one file works sometimes, though, well, yeah, it's a funny plugin and something completely new for me
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I told you how to hook it up correctly and you didn't read my post all the way through obviously. No need to reiterate here, do your homework.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naji
I do not get the sense of this plugin.
Plugin is funny, but I just play Synth sounds or any other Vsti that will be scanned on guitar instead of my keyboard.
This plugin is for guitarists who do not know to play a keyboard or piano, right?
But it will sound a little strange, not exactly like with keyboard, but it's something new...nice for computer game sounds maybe, can not imagine to use it in a music production. I suppose you have to change your playing style to make it sound more like a synth
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You are missing the whole point. As I think a lot of people do with MIDI guitar. It is not meant as a replacement for keyboard work. And no, you're probably not going to be able to shred with it. Who cares?
My own approach to this is very simple. I use it not on its own to try and play a keyboard part with the guitar, that's just nonsense. On the other hand, it can be used quite effectively to add texture and amazing sonic possibilities when blended with your guitar tracks. I don't think I ever use it by itself but always blended with the instrument that triggered it.
And the fact that you can capture the MIDI of the performance and then experiment to no end with what and how it triggers it after the fact brings about amazing potential for new sonic exploration.
Do you need to change your playing technique a little bit possibly? Yes. Sometimes... So what? So improve your skill set and become a better player. MIDI guitar does not lend itself well to sloppy playing technique. The problem is not with the plug-in, the problem is with your skill set.
I think most people have the wrong idea about what a MIDI guitar plug-in supposed to do. By keeping yourself in a box of preconceived notions you miss out on the opportunity to explore a whole new realm of possibilities.
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08-03-2020, 03:53 AM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naji
It is really an interesting plugin, but I know I would maybe use it or check it out for a week and then never use it again, because if I want synth, I will play a synth on a keyboard.
The next thing might be for drummers making them play a sax with their sticks.
What I did not like about the midi guitar plugin is that I could hear the dry guitar when I was performing, even though I had closed headphones. It's not the plugins fault, but you will not hear what it really sounds like until you will have recorded, after tracking, but not while tracking.
And I do not like the high pricing, I mean, it's not a famous company, they could learn from Klanghelm, Tokyo dawn or Kazrog and also Valhalla, their plugins are top notch!
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Again, sorry, but this in nonesense. You're recording technique is wrong. And 100 bucks for something that replaces $2000 dollars worth of hardware? For a piece of software so well written it out performs hardware?
So you apparently you want to pay for a brand name? Then go blow 2 grand on a Roland...
MIDI guitar isn't for everyone, just go back to cranking up your Marshall to 13 and playing bar chords
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08-03-2020, 03:58 AM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell
Did anybody try to use this with some appropriate VSTi to do a decent acoustic guitar performance with an electric Guitar ? As well finger picking as strumming ? As well 6 String and 12 String ?
For this to work really decently I suppose you need Midi MPE to allow for bending single notes (see -> https://jamosapien.com/t/mpe-support-any-time-soon/1638 ). Moreover the Note-Off detection / reproduction might be critical.
If that work I might want to recommend it to my Guitarist, who desperately declines to play an acoustic guitar, claiming his fingers are too short.
-Michael
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The best way to get a six string or a 12 string sound is to play a six string or a 12 string guitar. That said, there are quite a few good sample sets out there that would probably work just fine in an instance of Kontakt.
As for bending and legato the plug-in has provisions for that although I find it to be less than perfect. But I think you're trying to project a preconceived notion of what you want to do and then discarding the entire plug-in without giving it its due consideration as to all of the many other things it can do spectacularly.
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08-03-2020, 04:06 AM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 809
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For what it's worth, I'm going to reiterate one thing that some people seem to disregard or ignore. For the plugin to trigger properly you need to take a good clean direct signal off your guitar. It should have a pre-fader send so that the volume is consistent.
If you try to go through an amp you're going to introduce additional latency. You will also introduce noise which can confuse the translation. After all, 60 cycle hum and noise has pitch as well.
The same goes for trying to use an overdriven signal as a source. All of the extra harmonics will interfere with proper tracking.
If you need to use these other sources do them in parallel. As I stated before simply get a high quality splitter so that you can take your signal directly from your guitar's pickups or piezo to feed the plug-in, while you also record the sound of your favorite amplifiers.
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08-03-2020, 04:20 AM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Norfolk UK
Posts: 1,368
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I have messed about with midi guitar on and off over a number of years now and there is definitely skill involved in how you play, and I mean with Roland et al stuff.
I am not a keyboard player so playing certain instruments with a guitar is helpful in putting together a song, for me at least, even if I just use it to sketch things out then edit.
It will never sound completely natural because you just cannot emulate the technique of the way a non guitar instrument works. This is the same for guitar vsti: There are lots of things you can do with a guitar that you just cannot emulate on a keyboard. Yes, you can get reasonably close either way.
Having said that, not being able to emulate precisely is not a bad thing and does not make the software rubbish. It has it's uses and limitations like everything else.
Like everything else, you have to have a level of tenacity and work at it in order to give it value for you.
The $100 expense argument is plain silly: How many here bought waves stuff then gave it up for whatever reason. How many here bought NI packages then found they didn't use half of it I wonder - horses for courses.
@ Steviebone, any chance you could post an .RPP with the setup you describe, not sure if that would work but....
__________________
Windows 10 Pro. Intel i7 3400ghz. 16GB Ram. Focusrite Scarlett 8i6. Reaper 64.
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08-03-2020, 06:28 AM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 247
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I can play a keybord but not fast and fluidly enough to improvise. This plugin solves that for me. I use expression pedals to control whatever vsti im using.
It can be glitchy and I would never use it live. But its easy enough to go back and fix errant notes. It has a hard time sometimes recognizing 2 notes played exactly at the same time. I use it on a pretty old machine and it works fine.
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08-03-2020, 07:52 AM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: NA - North Augusta South Carolina
Posts: 4,294
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It works great, amazingly so. I also find it odd it's not more well known.
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08-03-2020, 08:54 AM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,646
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It works with VSTi only, not with VST, there is a difference! 128 buffer works fine.
I start liking it. Most of the tutorial videos are very uninspiring, so it had some impact on me, but for a certain group of instruments it works great for me, I play the guitar completely different with this plugin than I would play my guutar by itself, plugin is cool without any question, still can't imagine to use it in a production, but since it's something new I have fun. I remember Al di Meola using something like this with a synth sound and I truely speaking hated it. I think the demo has no limit, so the demo should be enough for having some fun here and then.
I think I do not have to improve my guitar skills any more, to those who intend to improve their skills I recommend to learn flamenco, but for this plugin I definitely have to change my playing, a nice challenge
Last edited by Naji; 08-03-2020 at 09:05 AM.
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08-03-2020, 10:08 AM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 462
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell
Did anybody try to use this with some appropriate VSTi to do a decent acoustic guitar performance with an electric Guitar ? As well finger picking as strumming ? As well 6 String and 12 String ?
For this to work really decently I suppose you need Midi MPE to allow for bending single notes (see -> https://jamosapien.com/t/mpe-support-any-time-soon/1638 ). Moreover the Note-Off detection / reproduction might be critical.
If that work I might want to recommend it to my Guitarist, who desperately declines to play an acoustic guitar, claiming his fingers are too short.
-Michael
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This is a great solution:
https://www.audiomediaresearch.com/revalver-4
use the Instrument Modelling Module and pick a suitable guitar to emulate. Revalver is free and the instrument packs are cheap (like less than $5 and some are on sale right now). Needs some EQ of course, but it's a great live solution when you need to switch back and forth from electric to acoustic. I'd say it sounds at least as good as an acoustic with a piezo.
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08-03-2020, 10:11 AM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,646
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haha if Miles could hear that, plugin is fun haha https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....62#post2327562
@Steviebone
Thanks for your detailled description.
With your setup you will hear guitar and a Vsti sound, well, I prefer to hear Vsti only and I do not need to record midi, because when I record a guitar, I have audio only, too, so only one track works fine for me
Last edited by Naji; 08-03-2020 at 03:17 PM.
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08-03-2020, 05:22 PM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 9,090
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I use this plugin quite a bit. And I CAN play keys well, especially in a recording platform. I don't trigger virtual instruments with the plugin instead of using a keyboard, I use it to layer a performance and include the guitar sound. I usually reamp the di part and layer various synths with real amped guitar. The options are endless...brilliant plugin.
__________________
The Sounds of the Hear and Now.
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08-03-2020, 06:22 PM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,269
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When within it's wheelhouse it's great, when not, not so much. That's true of every pitch-to-midi device or software I've ever used.
For example, E2 (82.4 Hz) to E4 (329.628 Hz)... there is about 300 samples or 6.25 ms less latency for E4 (the higher pitch). So the latency is relative to the pitch of the note being converted. It's not possible to just time-offset the difference because each pitch has a slightly different latency.
Now if one is going to quantize anyway then all is well (within wheelhouse) but if we want it as it was played, then we are kind of stuck unless it's not tight enough to matter (also valid).
** I also notice the latency in general, I can usually deal with it, just like I do in my octave stompbox; but for some stuff the latency is just annoying with either of them.
I actually forgot I had Jam Origin, I bought it way back during the V2 Beta - updated and messed with it for a few after seeing the thread.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
Last edited by karbomusic; 08-03-2020 at 06:29 PM.
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08-03-2020, 06:53 PM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Perth, W.A.
Posts: 1,708
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Higher frequencies have shorter wavelengths. Sample time can be shorter. It does get longer as you go lower.
I have a Casio MG510 midi guitar which works great. I thought. This software has less latency and tracks better by far. It's extremely playable.
I don't see why one couldn't sing parts into it. Might need Autotune and a filter first in the chain. Haven't tried.
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08-03-2020, 07:13 PM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 3,204
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Since I've owned a pair of Rolands (a GR20 and a GR33) for 10 years, I'd have to retrain myself.
I've adapted to the latency by hitting notes early on the lower strings when playing melodies.
Still, this thing looks pretty cool. Do you have any latency measurements?
Edit: nevamind. it was covered in post #21
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08-03-2020, 07:19 PM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,646
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The plugin is creative and nice. If I used it regularly, I would loose my ability to play guitar or in other words, I d loose my blues. I play with it like someone who forgot to take his pills. To use it to ad some synth or pad sound to the guitar, that's not for me, I just don't like that. The plugin also could be improved, there is some latency and kind of dropouts or rhythmic disorder.
Quantizing is a no go for me especially on solo parts where I track in one take mostly, I do not use midi with this olugin anyway. I ve noticed that the midi track will not be 100% to the audio, this means that some messages are not send to the midi track, especially when you play more complex stuff. . Anyway why paying if there's a demo? The plugin benefits from other developers who created Vsti plugins and you can use it completely with free plugins. Unfortunately you can not load Air plugins, they would be the best for me, Air do not have dll files. So the plugin s capacity is at about 30%, so quite a lot to do to improve it for the devs. Now it's just a toy... but cool
Last edited by Naji; 08-03-2020 at 08:02 PM.
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08-03-2020, 09:07 PM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 3,204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naji
The plugin is creative and nice. If I used it regularly, I would loose my ability to play guitar or in other words, I d loose my blues. I play with it like someone who forgot to take his pills. To use it to ad some synth or pad sound to the guitar, that's not for me, I just don't like that. The plugin also could be improved, there is some latency and kind of dropouts or rhythmic disorder.
Quantizing is a no go for me especially on solo parts where I track in one take mostly, I do not use midi with this olugin anyway. I ve noticed that the midi track will not be 100% to the audio, this means that some messages are not send to the midi track, especially when you play more complex stuff. . Anyway why paying if there's a demo? The plugin benefits from other developers who created Vsti plugins and you can use it completely with free plugins. Unfortunately you can not load Air plugins, they would be the best for me, Air do not have dll files. So the plugin s capacity is at about 30%, so quite a lot to do to improve it for the devs. Now it's just a toy... but cool
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All midi guitars require a level of precision in picking, muting and fretting technique to avoid mistriggers and missed notes. It's similar to slide guitar; it's best treated as a whole new instrument.
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08-03-2020, 10:31 PM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,781
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naji
Unfortunately you can not load Air plugins,...
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???
If the plugin outputs Midi in Reaper, any plugin that is loadable in Reaper should be able to use that Midi stream.
-Michael
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08-04-2020, 01:22 AM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Spain
Posts: 324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell
to do a decent acoustic guitar performance with an electric Guitar
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I load an acoustic IR in Reaverb.
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08-04-2020, 04:55 AM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,646
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell
???
If the plugin outputs Midi in Reaper, any plugin that is loadable in Reaper should be able to use that Midi stream.
-Michael
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You are right, you can use by having three tracks like recommeneded in OPs post, but not within in the plugin.
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08-04-2020, 08:24 AM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertP
@ Steviebone, any chance you could post an .RPP with the setup you describe, not sure if that would work but....
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Currently it is part of a 350 track template, but I suppose that when I have a minute I could create a separate template for it and try and post it here... I've never done that.
But that's not really necessary if you follow these instructions closely.
1. Take the cleanest direct output of your guitar you can into the input of reaper. If you can, avoid going through an amp of any kind for this signal. Don't try to mic your amp for this.
2. Although you can certainly use a guitar to trigger just synthesizers I find that it works best when used in conjunction with your normal guitar track to add layers upon layers of texture. To achieve this you will need a high quality splitter. I use the Voodoo Amp Selector (tuner out). There are less expensive ones out there. However beware that some of the cheaper ones can kill tone and squash your gain. You need a unit that will not simply cut your gain in half with the split. If you need more information on this let me know.
3. Take your reaper input track and create a send to another track. Make that send pre-fader.
4. On the new track, load the midi guitar VST.
IMPORTANT: do not load your synthesizers in this VST even though it has a host for it. That's what you have reaper for, and reaper is far better at being a VST host than this plug-in is. As far as I can tell this plug-in is looking for VST3's and does not play well with other types of VST's. No matter, reaper is champ at this. Also I got much lower latency by bypassing the plug-ins internal host.
5. You should be able to use the plug-in without making any adjustments. You're going to take the MIDI out this plug-in into another track. So the only part of the plug-in you will be using is the pitch to MIDI trigger function. That's okay, that's all you need and that's what it excels at.
6. Click on the red button on set the output to force MIDI, make sure monitor input is checked.
7. Now create another track and create a send from the previous track. This is where you will load your synthesizer and record the audio output. Load your VST instrument of choice here. You might want to force the output to stereo audio. Again this can be accessed by right clicking the red button on the track.
That's all there is to it. guitar -> reaper input track -> pre fader send -> track with midi guitar plugin -> midi out -> audio track with vsti.
With this type of configuration I'm able to reliably trigger the MIDI with virtually every guitar I have acoustic or electric.
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08-04-2020, 08:26 AM
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#30
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sqkychair
I can play a keybord but not fast and fluidly enough to improvise. This plugin solves that for me. I use expression pedals to control whatever vsti im using.
It can be glitchy and I would never use it live. But its easy enough to go back and fix errant notes. It has a hard time sometimes recognizing 2 notes played exactly at the same time. I use it on a pretty old machine and it works fine.
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My guess is that your triggering problems are caused by what signal your feeding it. If you're going through amp first or micing something, it will not trigger nearly as well. Also anything with overdrive has too many harmonics. This is why you need to take a clean signal split off the guitar for best results. If you do that your triggering problems will all but disappear.
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08-04-2020, 08:30 AM
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#31
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naji
It works with VSTi only, not with VST, there is a difference! 128 buffer works fine.
I start liking it. Most of the tutorial videos are very uninspiring, so it had some impact on me, but for a certain group of instruments it works great for me, I play the guitar completely different with this plugin than I would play my guutar by itself, plugin is cool without any question, still can't imagine to use it in a production, but since it's something new I have fun. I remember Al di Meola using something like this with a synth sound and I truely speaking hated it. I think the demo has no limit, so the demo should be enough for having some fun here and then.
I think I do not have to improve my guitar skills any more, to those who intend to improve their skills I recommend to learn flamenco, but for this plugin I definitely have to change my playing, a nice challenge
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That's the spirit! And remember to avoid loading the plug-ins into the VST itself. Use reaper for that! As for skill set it's really just about learning to be precise about how you play. It's a skill we all need to practice at anyway, so this plug-in is a nice motivation to do just that!
Yes there may be some articulations that you can't use. To me that's not an issue. You can't do a hammer on on a keyboard either. So what? No reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater, there still a multitude of amazing things you can do.
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08-04-2020, 08:31 AM
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#32
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,269
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Just to simplify things:
1. Plug your guitar in to your interface just like you would if using an amp SIM.
2. Place Jam Origin on the track instead of an amp SIM - set buffer to 128'ish since JO may complain if too high or too low.
3. Place a VSTi after JO in that track's FX Chain.
4. Record-arm and enable input monitoring.
Have fun.
-- You can set the track to record audio or the resulting MIDI output. Safer to just record the audio so you have it.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
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08-04-2020, 08:33 AM
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#33
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naji
haha if Miles could hear that, plugin is fun haha https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....62#post2327562
@Steviebone
Thanks for your detailled description.
With your setup you will hear guitar and a Vsti sound, well, I prefer to hear Vsti only and I do not need to record midi, because when I record a guitar, I have audio only, too, so only one track works fine for me
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You might want to rethink not recording MIDI. Recording the MIDI allows you to add or change or modify all of the synthesizer sounds after the fact. I do this routinely. You played a great lick, now go back and re-track synthesizer parts to your hearts content without having to replay the guitar part at all.
Try it. Record something and then set up a loop, and while playing the loop you can add additional synthesizers swap sounds around etc. until you find exactly the best combination.
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08-04-2020, 08:34 AM
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#34
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philbo King
All midi guitars require a level of precision in picking, muting and fretting technique to avoid mistriggers and missed notes. It's similar to slide guitar; it's best treated as a whole new instrument.
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this...
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08-04-2020, 08:36 AM
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#35
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic
Just to simplify things:
1. Plug your guitar in to your interface just like you would if using an amp SIM.
2. Place Jam Origin on the track instead of an amp SIM - set buffer to 128'ish since JO may complain if too high or too low.
3. Place a VSTi after JO in that track's FX Chain.
4. Record-arm and enable input monitoring.
Have fun.
-- You can set the track to record audio or the resulting MIDI output. Safer to just record the audio so you have it.
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This works as well but in this configuration you will lose the ability to simultaneously capture the MIDI and the audio on separate tracks.
Also, by using three tracks you can keep the first track to record your guitar direct signal which can be used for re-amping.
And another plus of using a multiple track configuration is that you can load up several VST's in parallel (just send the midi to more vst tracks) and have extremely layered sounds each with their own print track. Can't really do that in a single track with an FX chain.
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08-04-2020, 08:41 AM
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#36
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steviebone
This works as well but in this configuration you will lose the ability to simultaneously capture the MIDI and the audio on separate tracks.
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That's why I called it the simplified method.
You can then just drag the IO button to a new track and set the send to send MIDI output to be recorded on that one. Here's from last night when measuring latency vs pitch:
To be clear, I probably didn't even read your instructions which I'm sure are fine. I was just pointing out to whomever that there's no rocket science, just replace the SIM with JO and go from there for the most basic setup.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
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08-04-2020, 08:45 AM
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#37
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic
That's why it's the simplified method.
You can then just drag the IO button to a new track and set the send to send MIDI output to be recorded on that one that one. Here's from last night when measuring latency vs pitch:
To be clear, I probably didn't even read your instructions which I'm sure are fine. I was just pointing out to whomever that there's no rocket science, just replace the SIM with JO and go from there.
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Cool. I never thought about doing it like that... but yeah. The main thing is to get a good clean signal into the trigger. That's where most people go wrong. The cleaner the signal the better the triggering. And you want to do everything you can to reduce latency by eliminating anything in the path you can.
Also, one other thought is that by blending it with your actual guitar the tiny bit of latency that there is becomes kind of moot because your hearing the original attack on your guitar sound anyway. I find this is best used as an extension for your guitar sounds and not simply as a way to play keyboard from a guitar... but that's just my two cents.
Of course to do that properly you need a bit of a sophisticated set up with a proper splitter. That's probably something most people here don't have ready access to.
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08-04-2020, 08:58 AM
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#38
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,269
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It really depends on context, personally, I don't use it much because there aren't enough scenarios for me to need it often but that is totally user preference/need.
I think the last time I actually used it was to improvise the farfisa solo (@1:25) on this cover a buddy and I recorded over a couple hours a number of years back...
http://EverythingsLovely.Com/Music/S...rewolf/tos.mp3
I can tell by the "licks" I used that I played it on guitar. The piano sounding keyboard, pretty sure I just played on a keyboard.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
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08-04-2020, 08:58 AM
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#39
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Norfolk UK
Posts: 1,368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steviebone
Currently it is part of a 350 track template, but I suppose that when I have a minute I could create a separate template for it and try and post it here... I've never done that.
But that's not really necessary if you follow these instructions closely.
1. Take the cleanest direct output of your guitar you can into the input of reaper. If you can, avoid going through an amp of any kind for this signal. Don't try to mic your amp for this.
2. Although you can certainly use a guitar to trigger just synthesizers I find that it works best when used in conjunction with your normal guitar track to add layers upon layers of texture. To achieve this you will need a high quality splitter. I use the Voodoo Amp Selector (tuner out). There are less expensive ones out there. However beware that some of the cheaper ones can kill tone and squash your gain. You need a unit that will not simply cut your gain in half with the split. If you need more information on this let me know.
3. Take your reaper input track and create a send to another track. Make that send pre-fader.
4. On the new track, load the midi guitar VST.
IMPORTANT: do not load your synthesizers in this VST even though it has a host for it. That's what you have reaper for, and reaper is far better at being a VST host than this plug-in is. As far as I can tell this plug-in is looking for VST3's and does not play well with other types of VST's. No matter, reaper is champ at this. Also I got much lower latency by bypassing the plug-ins internal host.
5. You should be able to use the plug-in without making any adjustments. You're going to take the MIDI out this plug-in into another track. So the only part of the plug-in you will be using is the pitch to MIDI trigger function. That's okay, that's all you need and that's what it excels at.
6. Click on the red button on set the output to force MIDI, make sure monitor input is checked.
7. Now create another track and create a send from the previous track. This is where you will load your synthesizer and record the audio output. Load your VST instrument of choice here. You might want to force the output to stereo audio. Again this can be accessed by right clicking the red button on the track.
That's all there is to it. guitar -> reaper input track -> pre fader send -> track with midi guitar plugin -> midi out -> audio track with vsti.
With this type of configuration I'm able to reliably trigger the MIDI with virtually every guitar I have acoustic or electric.
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OK, no worries, I will try and come back if need be.
Thanks for replying both
__________________
Windows 10 Pro. Intel i7 3400ghz. 16GB Ram. Focusrite Scarlett 8i6. Reaper 64.
Last edited by RobertP; 08-04-2020 at 09:11 AM.
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08-04-2020, 09:08 AM
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#40
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic
It really depends on context, personally, I don't use it much because there aren't enough scenarios for me to need it often but that is totally user preference/need.
I think the last time I actually used it was to improvise the farfisa solo (@1:25) on this cover a buddy and I recorded over a couple hours a number of years back...
http://EverythingsLovely.Com/Music/S...rewolf/tos.mp3
I can tell by the "licks" I used that I played it on guitar. The piano sounding keyboard, pretty sure I just played on a keyboard.
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coool little cover, and the farifisa was quite convincing
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