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Old 07-27-2020, 06:04 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by ferropop View Post
Klang, 100% in agreement but I do see the benefit in the ruler extending vertically through all tracks. My mental compromise was that the ruler stay as-is, but the tiny section comprising of the Active Track be 'blinky'.

And/Or, as I FR'd years ago, tinting the track as in the puddi gif.
Well, I think the delineation in Reaper, especially with the default theme is a lot less clear than other DAWs. And that the current implementation is just an overcompensation for that. That's not very good UI. Also, Reaper seems to have a knack for putting overly-large tooltip info displays in really bad spots when moving stuff around which is unfortunate.

I just think the more obvious we make ruler guides, thicker item delineators, etc. the clunkier it looks and feels. I feel like I'm working in a DAW designed for 5 year olds at that point, instead of something elegant and polished. Even if you add vertical lines to Puddi's example, it would be a lot more elegant as nothing is overexaggerated or overcompensated yet you still easily know what is what.
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Old 07-27-2020, 07:16 PM   #42
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From a previous post:
Using such a dark project / theme, have you considered changing your edit / play cursor to white? A dark red cursor is really a bad choice in terms of contrast.
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Old 07-27-2020, 07:27 PM   #43
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Using such a dark project / theme, have you considered changing your edit / play cursor to white? A dark red cursor is really a bad choice in terms of contrast.
Hey Stevie, haha I should not have used that theme for the screencap as it is not my usual theme at all. Also, it's totally unrelated to the issue.

I have no problem seeing the edit/play ruler. I also have no problem seeing the Tinted TCP of the current active track.

BUT I (and imagine others?) am unable to visually intersect the Edit/Play ruler and the Tinted TCP wayyyy at the left side of the screen. There is a gigantic disconnect horizontally between them. That specific intersection is the equivalent of your cursor in MS Word.
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Old 07-27-2020, 11:14 PM   #44
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I also agree we shouldn't all be punished with a weird partially thick cursor because of some people using not well thought out themes.

I always know where I am pasting, edit cursor is a nice white line on a bluish background and TCP of selected tracks light up white, and as far as I know media is always pasted at edit cursor on selected track. So as easy as place edit cursor at the right time, select wanted track and hit paste.
If selected tcp or edit cursor are difficult to see it means the theme doesn't work well.
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Old 07-28-2020, 12:17 AM   #45
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I also agree we shouldn't all be punished with a weird partially thick cursor because of some people using not well thought out themes.

I always know where I am pasting, edit cursor is a nice white line on a bluish background and TCP of selected tracks light up white, and as far as I know media is always pasted at edit cursor on selected track. So as easy as place edit cursor at the right time, select wanted track and hit paste.
If selected tcp or edit cursor are difficult to see it means the theme doesn't work well.
With so many colors everywhere its lots of time difficult for me to see which track is selected, I am looking forward to learn how to make this easier ..
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Old 07-28-2020, 03:43 AM   #46
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Coachz what is it about knowing which track you're on that you object to?
I already know which track I'm on. No problem with the feature if it's optional.
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Old 07-28-2020, 04:20 AM   #47
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i'd think that selected track border color would be better than selected track background tinting, which might be invisible under items (which in turn should not change color if their tracks have been selected).

a thin, 1pixel selected track border color replacing the existing track border color would do the trick.
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Old 07-28-2020, 04:34 AM   #48
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It's better to have per-track edit cursor like in Ableton or ProTools.
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Old 07-28-2020, 04:45 AM   #49
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I'm fine with how it was. Make any changes optional PLEASE.
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Old 07-28-2020, 06:15 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Phazma View Post
I also agree we shouldn't all be punished with a weird partially thick cursor because of some people using not well thought out themes.

I always know where I am pasting, edit cursor is a nice white line on a bluish background and TCP of selected tracks light up white, and as far as I know media is always pasted at edit cursor on selected track. So as easy as place edit cursor at the right time, select wanted track and hit paste.
If selected tcp or edit cursor are difficult to see it means the theme doesn't work well.
Again (3rd time now) the theme has nothing to do with it.

Of course everyone knows it will paste at the intersection of the edit cursor and the tinted TCP.

This Intersection Is Not Connected! There's a gigantic gap between it that you have to draw an imaginary line with your eyes (or fingers) to connect.

The argument here is + Marks the spot Way better than -⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀|
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Old 07-28-2020, 06:23 AM   #51
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I also agree we shouldn't all be punished with a weird partially thick cursor because of some people using not well thought out themes.

I always know where I am pasting, edit cursor is a nice white line on a bluish background and TCP of selected tracks light up white, and as far as I know media is always pasted at edit cursor on selected track. So as easy as place edit cursor at the right time, select wanted track and hit paste.
If selected tcp or edit cursor are difficult to see it means the theme doesn't work well.
Also if you're selecting a time, hovering over to TCP, clicking the desired track, there's no way you're doing any detailed sample editing because that would take centuries.

Some people are chopping things up, take that slice and move it down, fly that snare up to that track, go to Media Explorer and pull a new one in, oh oops can't tell what track I'm pulling a sample to, ok fix it oops now I've lost track of where I was right before. Knowing "where the cursor is" is kind of the most important thing ever.

In MS Word you just click where you wanna edit, right? We've been doing this since Windows 3.1, it's engrained, it works and it aways has. I'm arguing against the argument that a better way to use MS Word is that there's a tiny indicator on the currently selected row, and a horizontal line cutting through the page - and thats your cursor. I just don't get it haha.
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Old 07-28-2020, 06:33 AM   #52
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Knowing "where the cursor is" is kind of the most important thing ever.
Au contraire:
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Old 07-28-2020, 08:07 AM   #53
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It doesn't tint the actual media area, just the TCP.
Right, that's exactly what we were talking about at that moment with karbo, while we both were also well aware of the track background coloring talk.

As for the question of how do I know which track I have selected, I know it because I just clicked on it. There really isn't anything more special in it for me. If I would really need to verify it, I would look to the TCPs. My single display is so small I can focus on anything in it with the smallest eye movements, so that has never been a problem for me. I also have few fast zoom options to go from one part of item filling the whole screen to whole project displayed at once.

But I do realize people work different ways, have different setups and requirements. If you do have so big display and everything so small in it that you'll constantly have to move your head/eyes from corner to corner and even trace things with fingers, yea, that can be a real pain.
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Old 07-28-2020, 08:25 AM   #54
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With the tint images here applied to tcp it makes it very easy for me FINALLY to see what track I have selected ! Yay

https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...4&postcount=18
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Old 07-28-2020, 08:31 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Coachz View Post
With the tint images here applied to tcp it makes it very easy for me FINALLY to see what track I have selected ! Yay

https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...4&postcount=18
Coachz yes in your specific example the edit cursor is literally right beside the TCP and of course the intersection is more visible. The vast majority of the time it will be either at the center of the screen or possibly further right.

Just to understand...you would find a slight tinting of the entire track distracting?
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Old 07-28-2020, 08:43 AM   #56
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With the tint images here applied to tcp it makes it very easy for me FINALLY to see what track I have selected ! Yay

https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...4&postcount=18
What if you'd like to hide TCP at all?
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Old 07-28-2020, 09:06 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by ferropop View Post
Coachz yes in your specific example the edit cursor is literally right beside the TCP and of course the intersection is more visible. The vast majority of the time it will be either at the center of the screen or possibly further right.

Just to understand...you would find a slight tinting of the entire track distracting?
Color is a sensitive issue for most everybody and as long as it's configurable by the user I don't see any problem with it. Make it so we can tint the entire selected track slightly differently on its background
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Old 07-28-2020, 09:07 AM   #58
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What if you'd like to hide TCP at all?
I don't understand that statement
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Old 07-28-2020, 09:10 AM   #59
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What if you'd like to hide TCP at all?
Yep, double click or drag the divider so that you have just the arrange area visible is yet another challenge.
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Old 07-28-2020, 09:20 AM   #60
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I don't like the way the thick line looks either, but the general idea of having an indicator for track selection at the edit cursor position, and not just in the track panels on the left, seems like such a no brainer to me. I'm kind of surprised it's taken this long for it to make into a pre-release. It's strange to me that this is getting so much resistance from some folks. Is the idea of a cursor that indicates both time and track selection really such a wild idea?
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Old 07-28-2020, 09:24 AM   #61
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Yep, double click or drag the divider so that you have just the arrange area visible is yet another challenge.
You actually use Reaper with just the arrange view and no TCP or mixer visible? It seems like it would be really hard to do much I guess anything's possible.
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Old 07-28-2020, 09:32 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Coachz View Post
You actually use Reaper with just the arrange view and no TCP or mixer visible? It seems like it would be really hard to do much I guess anything's possible.
I didn't say so, but some need to hide it. What's then?
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Old 07-28-2020, 09:34 AM   #63
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It's strange to me that this is getting so much resistance from some folks. Is the idea of a cursor that indicates both time and track selection really such a wild idea?
Just make sure we aren't conflating resistance with trying to help our fellow man. As I mentioned earlier, there are lots of us who see problems and exhaust everything we can find to make it better (and in some cases solved) in the interim, because FRs don't get fulfilled 5 minutes after posting them.

And to accomplish ^that often takes a bit of back and forth figuring out what others have tried, how they need to work, what they are aware of and/or not aware of, and how various ideas do or don't help them. It would be entirely silly to just avoid all that and say fk yea do it.

Actually, that's precisely why we have features like a flashing cursor that so few are aware of, because threads like this have occurred since Reaper began, we have big discussions, some fixes/features/options get added, people move on, everyone forgets and in some case we do it all over again for things that actually already exist. I've seen in some cases a big FR/thread from 10 years ago, it gets fixed to the satisfaction of everyone involved - 10 years later someone new shows up and doesn't agree - we should at least take all of the above into account since the majority of us at least are simply trying to find ways to help users.
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Old 07-28-2020, 09:37 AM   #64
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You actually use Reaper with just the arrange view and no TCP or mixer visible? It seems like it would be really hard to do much I guess anything's possible.
I have tried to work without the panels visible when editing as the extra screen real estate would be nice, but I gave up because of the exact reason being discussed in this thread: there is no way to tell which track is selected.
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Old 07-28-2020, 09:38 AM   #65
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I didn't say so, but some need to hide it. What's then?
They would describe that need in this thread and deemed valid. I do not disagree with where you are going or the FR but when things matter, we all expect to hear about them when the person affected is explaining. A nitpick but important IMHO because I've seen requests before, answered/fixed the exact ask only to be pounded with "but what about this shiny thing over here". Not saying that's happening here, just noting details early on matter.
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Old 07-28-2020, 09:43 AM   #66
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They would describe that need in this thread and deemed valid. I do not disagree with where you are going or the FR but when things matter, we all expect to hear about them when the person affected is explaining. A nitpick but important IMHO.
So why this feature appeared then? It helps to determine tracks, where items will be pasted. With hidden TCP it is easier now. What is the issue? I don't get your point.
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Old 07-28-2020, 09:49 AM   #67
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Blinking cursor, highlighted selected track backgrounds in the arrange view. It's all good as long as it's optional. New interface changes forced on us can really disrupt workflow that has already been established.
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Old 07-28-2020, 09:51 AM   #68
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So why this feature appeared then? It helps to determine tracks, where items will be pasted. With hidden TCP it is easier now. What is the issue? I don't get your point.
Just seems like we are in the weeds on "what if someone hides the TCP entirely" when none of the most affected (that I noticed) mentioned anything about it. It's valid, just seems unnecessary but carry on.



Edit: And since anyone could pop in via TLDR, no I have no problem with making what needs to be seen visible for those asking - though I'm not entirely digging that little ugly cursor blob but I'd survive either way.
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Old 07-28-2020, 09:58 AM   #69
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Blinking cursor, highlighted selected track backgrounds in the arrange view. It's all good as long as it's optional. New interface changes forced on us can really disrupt workflow that has already been established.
Sure, you're right. I always support options instead of compulsorily features.
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Old 07-28-2020, 10:00 AM   #70
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Just seems like we are in the weeds on "what if someone hides the TCP entirely" when none of the most affected (that I noticed) mentioned anything about it. It's valid, just seems unnecessary but carry on.
Okay, I meant Coachz's layout wouldn't be useful if he'd like to hide TCP. Is it clear now?
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Old 07-28-2020, 10:03 AM   #71
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Okay, I meant Coachz's layout wouldn't be useful if he'd like to hide TCP. Is it clear now?
Yup.. same difference though. Someone says doesn't bother me, cuz... then everyone starts finding exceptions, little of which has to do with the original ask on the surface at least. It's just something that occurs in most all FR discussions. Looks like my attempt to refocus isn't working so I'll let you guys be on that piece.
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Old 07-28-2020, 10:05 AM   #72
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2 colors solution!

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Old 07-28-2020, 10:06 AM   #73
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Yup.. same difference though. Someone says doesn't bother me, cuz... then everyone starts finding exceptions, little of which has to do with the original ask on the surface at least.
I feel good with the feature, although the implementation is quite quirky. Additional edit cursor/visual line would make it much better than making the initial edit cursor thicker.
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Old 07-28-2020, 10:08 AM   #74
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2 colors solution!
We already have 2 colors for edit cursor, which flickers with them. We could have this blinking just for these tracks.
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Old 07-28-2020, 10:13 AM   #75
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. Additional edit cursor/visual line would make it much better than making the initial edit cursor thicker.
+1, I would prefer visual line with option to tint color because of different theme colors(dark/light).
It could give some nice focus on the track you are working.
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Old 07-28-2020, 10:13 AM   #76
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I feel good with the feature, although the implementation is quite quirky. Additional edit cursor/visual line would make it much better than making the initial edit cursor thicker.
I actually don't have much of a dog in that fight. I'm down with it being able to be seen quickly and easily, not so excited about the cursor blob as I'm not sure the cursor should be responsible for that part of the problem as I'd like to know what track is selected even if the cursor is completely off screen. If I were to name a favorite, it would be the track selection is just visible on the track bg and items in some way - but I could live with the tiny blob if needed.
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Old 07-28-2020, 10:23 AM   #77
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2 colors solution!

That's how Bitwig does it:

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Old 07-28-2020, 10:29 AM   #78
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^ - perfect. We keep the line, we have a tiny indicator of where we are in space-time.

Track tint, even better.
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Old 07-28-2020, 10:32 AM   #79
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That's how Bitwig does it:

hmmm interesting, there's also a script by amagalma that does something similar with a visual guide line.

I 'd like to have both visual track line and guide line as an option in the menu and choose which of them to use, both of them seem useful
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Old 07-28-2020, 10:33 AM   #80
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My FR for track tint has a grander vision to it btw.

Take this:



Almost impossible to be accurate. This type of paste happens Regularly, and yeah eventually we might get "lock horizontal/vertical" when doing these types of things, but even better is tinting the tracks related to the Area Selection:



Is this not infinitely better? You can clearly see the connection between origin and destination.
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