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01-03-2019, 10:01 AM
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#201
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svijayrathinam
Awesome!! Pls do..
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Just found out iPlug2 can build Reaper-specific FX that can even draw on top of the video window. This is going to be awesome!
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01-03-2019, 10:56 AM
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#202
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlimbic
Just found out iPlug2 can build Reaper-specific FX that can even draw on top of the video window. This is going to be awesome!
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A video overlay for the pan puck will be awesome. It will help to get the accuracy of the pan with respect to the video
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01-03-2019, 10:59 AM
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#203
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svijayrathinam
A video overlay for the pan puck will be awesome. It will help to get the accuracy of the pan with respect to the video
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It seems that reaper-specific VSTs can do a many other integrated things like know what take and track the FX is on etc.
Open to interesting integration suggestions. Video window is only one that comes to my mind immediately.
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01-03-2019, 11:35 AM
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#204
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlimbic
It seems that reaper-specific VSTs can do a many other integrated things like know what take and track the FX is on etc.
Open to interesting integration suggestions. Video window is only one that comes to my mind immediately.
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Linking the reaper's balance panner and dual panner to your plugin's X axis would be very helpful. We then only have to worry about the y axis pans when converting to stereo mixes to surround.
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01-03-2019, 11:38 AM
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#205
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 981
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An ipad app would also be very handy. So we can have the app opened in iPad and whichever track or take we click.. If there is your plugin inserted on it.. The iPad app should automatically bring that on to view ready to automate
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01-03-2019, 11:44 AM
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#206
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svijayrathinam
An ipad app would also be very handy. So we can have the app opened in iPad and whichever track or take we click.. If there is your plugin inserted on it.. The iPad app should automatically bring that on to view ready to automate
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iPlug2 has OSC support so that would be pretty easy for sending data between them.
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01-03-2019, 11:48 AM
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#207
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlimbic
iPlug2 has OSC support so that would be pretty easy for sending data between them.
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Touch OSC doesn't automatically bank to the selected track in reaper. Or am I missing something?
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01-03-2019, 11:56 AM
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#208
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svijayrathinam
Touch OSC doesn't automatically bank to the selected track in reaper. Or am I missing something?
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TouchOSC will respond to whatever is sent to it and it's configured to do for those messages.
Unless reaper is simply not sending track select information, it should be possible.
My plugin could send information about last selected panner instance. Would have to create some kind of template for it to understand those messages. OSC is just a way of sending data.
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01-03-2019, 11:57 AM
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#209
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlimbic
TouchOSC will respond to whatever is sent to it and it's configured to do for those messages.
Unless reaper is simply not sending track select information, it should be possible.
My plugin could send information about last selected panner instance. Would have to create some kind of template for it to understand those messages. OSC is just a way of sending data.
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Great!! If you have a layout that automatically bank to selected track pls share it.
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01-03-2019, 12:00 PM
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#210
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svijayrathinam
Great!! If you have a layout that automatically bank to selected track pls share it.
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I don't but if you use an OSC monitor to see what reaper is sending, you can configure TouchOSC to respond to those I think.
OSC isn't standardised like midi. It's just arbitrary text commands sent over the network. You need to teach each app what the messages mean.
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01-15-2019, 10:50 PM
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#211
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 240
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I have now updated my surround suite:
https://github.com/junh1024/Reaper-Surround
It is now somewhat usable because you can now pan directly into center. It has:
* 3.1 Panner (M).txt (for center channel dialog, front SFX, and LFE use)
* 7.1 Mono panner.txt (for phantom center & surround panning)
* 7.1 to 5.1 Downmix (M).txt
For a full GUI panner, http://sonic.supermaailma.net/plugins has a compatible one.
If 5.1 isn't enough, there are a few 15.1 surround tools.
I've also made:
* < 5.1 Effects & manipulators >
* updates to readme & tools
* organization of FX into categories
discussion of my suite should be directed here https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?p=2082080
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04-01-2019, 02:15 AM
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#212
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 36
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Just bumping this thread.
I'm also hoping MrLimbic may have an update on the panner plugin. Also if we could get ReaSurround working in a simpler and more intuitive way for post sound sound and music it would really be amazing.
The ultimate would be if there was some way to have compatibility between Reaper and Pro Tools surround panning automation via AATranslator as it would make delivering projects so much easier.
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04-27-2019, 10:07 AM
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#213
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,227
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rebumping. anything at all happening with reasurround?
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04-27-2019, 10:16 AM
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#214
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekkleman
Just bumping this thread.
I'm also hoping MrLimbic may have an update on the panner plugin. Also if we could get ReaSurround working in a simpler and more intuitive way for post sound sound and music it would really be amazing.
The ultimate would be if there was some way to have compatibility between Reaper and Pro Tools surround panning automation via AATranslator as it would make delivering projects so much easier.
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Absolutely... Some way of converting surround panner automation would be fantastic..via AATranslator... I have been asking this to the developer of AATranslator for a while..glad to have some company !!
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05-30-2019, 03:41 PM
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#215
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 981
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Any update on mr limbic surround panner ? Pls..
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05-30-2019, 04:00 PM
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#216
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svijayrathinam
Any update on mr limbic surround panner ? Pls..
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I can resume work on the panner after Vordio 6.x is out. Currently working on AAF support which has been pretty much the most requested feature always. Vordio 6 is pretty much a complete rewrite of the whole app using everyting learned from feedback. There's a lot more stuff but it is taking a lot longer than I hoped. Maybe a month or two to go?
PS Kind of related and it totally blew my mind.. I recently went to an academic event on spatial audio with physical demos of current acoustics research and there is some amazing stuff coming soon for mixing in 3D. All the demos were in reaper and will work with any DAW (tools are VSTs) and open source. All this ties into the new audio metadata standards coming soon too. Stuff I heard was mind boggling crazy such as upmixing mono samples to 3D which you'd think was impossible but sounded great. Speakers that could target each ear with constructive interference (virtual headphones). Nuts.
"Renderer: a component that uses the scene metadata to mix the signals of the objects in order to generate the output audio signals for different types of devices (Loudspeakers, Headphones, …) and layouts ( stereo, binaural, 5.1, 7.1, 22.1, …)."
https://www.s3a-spatialaudio.org/plugins
Last edited by mrlimbic; 05-30-2019 at 04:10 PM.
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05-30-2019, 05:43 PM
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#217
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: South
Posts: 587
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AMAZING !!!!!
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05-31-2019, 12:26 AM
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#218
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Berlin
Posts: 563
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Looks very promising.
What is the technical standard called? When I was at university, something similar was being drafted under the name "mpeg-h". Couldn't find more info on their site about this.
I'm also wondering if there are currently any consumer-side plugins in the works for reproducing the rendered object based mix in a media player like iTunes or foobar2000?
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05-31-2019, 01:13 AM
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#219
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaktor:[Dave]
Looks very promising.
What is the technical standard called? When I was at university, something similar was being drafted under the name "mpeg-h". Couldn't find more info on their site about this.
I'm also wondering if there are currently any consumer-side plugins in the works for reproducing the rendered object based mix in a media player like iTunes or foobar2000?
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There is a new WAV metadata standard called BW64/ADM (audio definition model) that allows for much richer metadata than BWF bext/iXML.
https://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r...6-I!!PDF-E.pdf
The backend of VISR is a set of open source components including various renderers for different formats that could be used in any other software.
https://cvssp.org/data/s3a/public/VI...with-visr.html
The VSTs in the demo I saw use UDP messages to send metadata in realtime from one VST to another. i.e. each object track VST sends it's spatial positions to the scene renderer VST.
However you could also use position information from anywhere you like including metadata recorded into a poly WAV file. So each channel is an object and they get rendered to whatever format you like during playback.
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05-31-2019, 06:36 AM
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#220
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,557
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaktor:[Dave]
Looks very promising.
What is the technical standard called? When I was at university, something similar was being drafted under the name "mpeg-h". Couldn't find more info on their site about this.
I'm also wondering if there are currently any consumer-side plugins in the works for reproducing the rendered object based mix in a media player like iTunes or foobar2000?
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You'd render a binaural stereo master. The fold-down of the 3D surround mix isn't rendered live. It works poorly enough IMHO that I'd just prefer an intentional stereo mix for headphones. Some people love it though. (Don't get me wrong. I'm very much a surround addict. Kind of all or nothing with it though. )
There's always going to be the ambiguity with the front/back "blind spot" as it were that you resolve by moving your head when listening to a speaker array. I am also aware however, that this is being worked on with motion detection (for head movement) experiments in headphones. Giving you the perception of moving your head in a static 3D sound field.
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05-31-2019, 07:55 AM
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#221
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serr
You'd render a binaural stereo master. The fold-down of the 3D surround mix isn't rendered live. It works poorly enough IMHO that I'd just prefer an intentional stereo mix for headphones. Some people love it though. (Don't get me wrong. I'm very much a surround addict. Kind of all or nothing with it though. )
There's always going to be the ambiguity with the front/back "blind spot" as it were that you resolve by moving your head when listening to a speaker array. I am also aware however, that this is being worked on with motion detection (for head movement) experiments in headphones. Giving you the perception of moving your head in a static 3D sound field.
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The demo I went to was definitely being rendered live in reaper.
They had a more polished version of this for 3D monitoring!
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05-31-2019, 07:57 AM
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#222
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 218
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The problem with a rendered binaural stereo master is that if you ears/pinnae/head are too different than the set used by the encoder, then the spatial image you perceive can be even worse than with a regular stereo mix. At least, this is my experience from playing with some free ambisonics plugins: different data sets for the binaural encoder gave me wildly different results.
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05-31-2019, 10:57 AM
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#223
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,557
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There's a front/back ambiguity - a sort of "blind spot" off to the side where you need to move your head a little to tell if it's in front of you or behind you. You can add reverb to resolve this but that runs into a wall with music mixing. Or at least it has as an after the fact translation of a surround mix to binaural compatible. You'd have to add additional reverb components to support the surround image and that's a problem.
Mixing from the ground up one would think you could do any of the surround techniques you liked in a way that was compatible with the ambisonic system and folding down. Sounds good in theory anyway. The two camps need to come together.
There's still a lot of old school stuff going on in mixes too. Bass content like kick and bass guitar mixed to mono in either stereo or front L,R of surround to couple two speakers together for more punch. Keeping panning separation simple when possible with hard pans direct to speakers in stereo or surround. That might not just translate 1:1 to ambisonic techniques.
Last edited by serr; 05-31-2019 at 01:07 PM.
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05-31-2019, 06:17 PM
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#224
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emarsk
The problem with a rendered binaural stereo master is that if you ears/pinnae/head are too different than the set used by the encoder, then the spatial image you perceive can be even worse than with a regular stereo mix. At least, this is my experience from playing with some free ambisonics plugins: different data sets for the binaural encoder gave me wildly different results.
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Yes, but some IRs are just bad in general. See my HRTF list https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...Yr_U6p/pubhtml
Quote:
Originally Posted by serr
There's a front/back ambiguity - a sort of "blind spot" off to the side where you need to move your head a little to tell if it's in front of you or behind you. You can add reverb to resolve this but that runs into a wall with music mixing. Or at least it has as an after the fact translation of a surround mix to binaural compatible. You'd have to add additional reverb components to support the surround image and that's a problem.
Mixing from the ground up one would think you could do any of the surround techniques you liked in a way that was compatible with the ambisonic system and folding down. Sounds good in theory anyway. The two camps need to come together.
There's still a lot of old school stuff going on in mixes too. Bass content like kick and bass guitar mixed to mono in either stereo or front L,R of surround to couple two speakers together for more punch. Keeping panning separation simple when possible with hard pans direct to speakers in stereo or surround. That might not just translate 1:1 to ambisonic techniques.
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AFAIK I have not had to do anything specific (ie, reverb) for any system regarding psychoacoustics. Many HRIRs have reverb built in.
surround & ambisonics are 2 different techniques for sound reproduction, but the same psychoacoustics for human hearing apply to both.
It's even more important to apply "surround" techniques of hard panning to ambisonics because the spatial accuracy of ambisonics is even worse than surround.
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11-19-2019, 09:38 AM
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#225
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Poland
Posts: 137
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A bit late into the Reaper surround game but I am just about to embark on mixing a sound track in 5.1 in reaper for the first time (Coming from Digital Performer and Pro Tools). I have been previously using this:
http://thecargocult.nz/spanner.shtml
Silly me - it works only on Pro Tools!
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11-19-2019, 10:34 AM
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#226
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kris.audioplanet
A bit late into the Reaper surround game but I am just about to embark on mixing a sound track in 5.1 in reaper for the first time (Coming from Digital Performer and Pro Tools). I have been previously using this:
http://thecargocult.nz/spanner.shtml
Silly me - it works only on Pro Tools!
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Something like this for reaper would be a game changer for sound designers. Developers pls
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11-19-2019, 04:57 PM
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#227
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kris.audioplanet
A bit late into the Reaper surround game but I am just about to embark on mixing a sound track in 5.1 in reaper for the first time (Coming from Digital Performer and Pro Tools). I have been previously using this:
http://thecargocult.nz/spanner.shtml
Silly me - it works only on Pro Tools!
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Spanner is really good. I wish cargocult would not be so stubborn and release a VST version. I'm sure they'd sell some even for sake of Nuendo, Pyramix etc.
Surround panning is probably the one remaining weakness for REAPER. There are some good open source panning engines but lack a decent UI.
I will be working on similar panner after Vordio 6.0 is out but unfortunately it's still a way off until that happens. Integrated panning pucks with video window etc. (you can access reaper video widnow from a plugin)
I was thinking of reskinning the open source VISR engine (acoustics research based) which is very good in terms of sound (I've been to demos). It's aimed at 360/VR/Ambisonic audio but it can also render to 5.1, 7.1 etc too. There is another good open source panning engine called SPARTA now but again the audio is great but the UI sucks and has bugs.
VISR already have free VSTs with a UI but I'd probably do it a bit different myself. Their main focus is object based audio metadata which supercedes the current BWF standard i.e BW64/ADM (audio definition model). However the techniques are still totally applicable to traditional surround.
If you took the VISR approach but provided a square room UI with video integration it would be great.
https://www.s3a-spatialaudio.org/plugins
Last edited by mrlimbic; 11-19-2019 at 05:29 PM.
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02-27-2020, 07:41 PM
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#228
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 179
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@mrlimbic did you ever make any more progress on the surround panner?
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02-28-2020, 09:33 AM
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#229
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nostrap
@mrlimbic did you ever make any more progress on the surround panner?
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I'll be able to resume work on the panner when Vordio 6.0 is out. It's just taken months longer than I thought.
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02-28-2020, 10:47 AM
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#230
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 179
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Ok thanks for the update!
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09-10-2020, 01:32 AM
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#231
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 167
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I am curious if there have been any new developments on the native (or third party) surround panner?
I also recall that a few years back an issue was the different surround channel order used by Reaper compared to Protools which uses the film standard channel order (preferred of course)
What is the status quo?
Do we still have to use third party surround panners like the one from anymix?
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09-11-2020, 03:33 PM
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#232
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 240
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Quote:
I also recall that a few years back an issue was the different surround channel order used by Reaper compared to Protools
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PT uses FILM, everyone else (broadcast & EU etc) uses SMPTE iirc.
Quote:
What is the status quo? Do we still have to use third party surround panners like the one from anymix?
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A lot of people still prolly use anymix
Quote:
Originally Posted by dadada
I am curious if there have been any new developments on the native (or third party) surround panner?
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Yes, in JSFX.
"1.0 to 5.1 Panner GUI (L).txt" in my surround suite. Also 15.1 stuff. See details in my signature.
Last edited by junh1024; 09-12-2020 at 02:49 PM.
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09-12-2020, 03:04 AM
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#233
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 167
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Interesting will check that out, thanks!
Even though I still think the "official" one should be looked into...
In your set of plugins it seems there is only a "1.0" to surround panner?
Is that true?
I'd want to pan stereo sources and be able to define their width....
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09-12-2020, 03:03 PM
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#234
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dadada
Interesting will check that out, thanks!
Even though I still think the "official" one should be looked into...
In your set of plugins it seems there is only a "1.0" to surround panner?
Is that true?
I'd want to pan stereo sources and be able to define their width....
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If you have a mono input to surround pan, it will always sound sharper & more stable than stereo input. (ED: around the edges)
If you REALLY want stereo input try "5.1 Mix Control (M).txt" which has a subset of controls.
You may also be interested in "2.0 to 5.0 Upmix V3 (L).txt" which might be better than anymix at upmixing.
Last edited by junh1024; 09-13-2020 at 05:28 AM.
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09-12-2020, 09:00 PM
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#235
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 586
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Junh your tools are pretty cool. I'm going to play around with aforementioned 1.0 to 5.1 panner on my next project, I like how simple it is.
I will say, I do end up putting stereo tracks into surround panners with no upmixing all the time. Sometimes you want to strip to mono, other times you want to upmix to 5.1, other times you want to play around with stereo (or LCR or quad or whatever) wacky panning. Different strokes for different situations. Would be cool to have an option to increase the number of inputs in the same plugin, but not sure how easy that is to do in JSFX.
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09-13-2020, 11:51 AM
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#236
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,227
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do any of these solve the issue of the dead spot in the center of the room when panning, say, from rear right to left front in 5.1?
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09-16-2020, 03:27 AM
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#237
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 240
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Can you please clarify what "dead spot" means?
Last edited by junh1024; 09-16-2020 at 10:06 PM.
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02-17-2021, 11:42 PM
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#238
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Montreal
Posts: 95
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Please help me!!! I spent the entire last week looking for a way to mix my next project in 5.1 using Reaper instead of pro-tools... There's so many advantage using Reaper that I decided to take time to set-up a valuable 5.1 workflow with Reaper. Reasurround is definitely not the the tools that will make it (for the moment unless I really miss something). I really need a 5.1 panner that act like a 5.1 panner... I spent hours and hours trying to configure reasurround the way I want, but like many others users I didn't find it... For those who are mixing in film, what would be the solution? Spanner only work for protools, I'm not really sure about JS surround (I never really found it)... I saw a lot of interesting and promising plugins in developement in this thread... Is there any plugin I could use now for what I need to do? Should I buy Anymix Pro? Is it really working? I haven't found a demo for it...
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02-18-2021, 12:23 AM
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#239
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2013
Location: New York
Posts: 781
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfbsauve
Please help me!!! I spent the entire last week looking for a way to mix my next project in 5.1 using Reaper instead of pro-tools... There's so many advantage using Reaper that I decided to take time to set-up a valuable 5.1 workflow with Reaper. Reasurround is definitely not the the tools that will make it (for the moment unless I really miss something). I really need a 5.1 panner that act like a 5.1 panner... I spent hours and hours trying to configure reasurround the way I want, but like many others users I didn't find it... For those who are mixing in film, what would be the solution? Spanner only work for protools, I'm not really sure about JS surround (I never really found it)... I saw a lot of interesting and promising plugins in developement in this thread... Is there any plugin I could use now for what I need to do? Should I buy Anymix Pro? Is it really working? I haven't found a demo for it...
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Head over to the pre-release section of the forum and check out Reasurround 2, you will not be disappointed
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02-18-2021, 09:12 AM
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#240
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,557
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I'm not sure what the ReaSurround plugin was going after either. Not surround panning in a mix, that's for sure!
I've been using that JS surround panner forever in Reaper.
I think I downloaded Spanner and Mobile Mouse to try out a while back but never followed through. What's wrong with Spanner in Reaper?
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